188. Men in Black: Part 2

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Hey travelers, it's kid Kenzar.
I'm just stopping by to say that

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Jeremy, Jake, Jeff, and CJ have
been absolutely killing it

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lately.
Great job, guys.

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The episodes have been
fantastic.

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Still one of my favorite shows
to listen to.

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But with all that being said, I
don't want to keep you guys any

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longer than I absolutely have
to.

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We've got a Cryptid or aliens or
whatever conspiracy Jeff's got

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going on to learn about.
So welcome travellers, You're

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listening to the infinite rabbit
hole.

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Enjoy.
All right, welcome back to the

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Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
I'm your host, Jeremy.

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Today we're going to dive right
back into where we left off last

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night on a special night of
Infinite Rabbit Hole.

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That's right, we were here
yesterday, Saturday.

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If you don't follow the social
medias then you probably didn't

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know that.
So yeah.

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So now you're going to get Part
2 of Men in Black and you're not

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going to hear Part 1, and then
everyone's just going to leave.

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Well, before we jump into the
topic of the day, we will bring

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in the host, Jacob, What's up?
Well, just left your house

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having a birthday party for your
youngest son and came home and

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did a little bit of squirrel
hunting and was successful and

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then watched an episode of
MasterChef with Whitney and

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that's about it.
That was my whole day.

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Nice, nice.
Oh, we went to a pumpkin patch

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too.
Got a lot of pumpkins so that

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was nice.
What about you, Jeff?

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What did you do today?
Got up earlier than I wanted to

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and then went fishing in the
rain and caught a fucking nice

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red fish today.
Nice.

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A pretty nice trout.
Crystal cut a pretty nice trout

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as well.
It's pretty awesome.

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Good stuff dude.
With IHOP.

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Had some food at IHOP.
Nice.

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You're in Florida, man.
You got Waffle House down there?

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Took a nap, we went to Waffle
House but there was a wait but

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luckily on the corner we have
Waffle House, IHOP, Denny's and

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Cracker Barrel all in the same
corner.

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That's dope.
Yeah, dude.

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I've never met you.
My son had his birthday party

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today.
I got to watch my Giants win a

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football game, which is strange,
but it felt good.

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So there's that.
And then I got to try this new

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beer today.
This is it's pretty cool.

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Monster Fest by Three Floyds.
Nice.

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Pretty good stuff.
We are not affiliated with these

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people.
This is not a promotion, just me

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saying that I like their beer.
Really good stuff.

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Yeah, it is.
It's their Oktoberfest flavor,

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and I mean, it's phenomenal.
Very good.

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Why is people are posting in the
chat but it's not showing up on

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our thing?
The last one I see was Holomoto

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from Whitney.
We got Whitney posted again for

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those who died.
Crystal Shadow Band Kenzer.

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You're right, it's not showing
up on Riverside.

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All right, we'll just have to
keep.

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It's not showing up to odd view
on twitch either but.

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Really.
All right.

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Well, we're going to push
through it.

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You guys ready?
Yeah.

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All right, So do you guys want
to you guys have anything to say

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before we jump back into Men in
Black?

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That last guy was full of crap.
Yeah, he was.

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All right, Well, I, I hope that
if you're in here today, you

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either know about the men in
black or you were here

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yesterday, because if not,
you're going to be lost.

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It is what it is.
We're going to start off the

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night by talking about Gray
Barker.

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Over the years, Barker has been
the recipient of many doubts

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from other researchers
throughout the past few

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generations.
It is even said that his family

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and close friends had come
forward after his death in 1984

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and claimed that Gray only
published these books under his

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own publishing agency, the The
Saucerian Press, for financial

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gain.
That in his real life he was a

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skeptic of most things having to
do with flying saucers and the

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paranormal, but that but those
that knew him refute the claim

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and explain that Barker was not
a researcher as much as he was a

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storyteller.
He didn't go out into the world

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to find out why or how things
happen, he told the story of

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what happened.
Which means sometimes he had to

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fill in the gaps with his own
creative material.

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Either way, I'm not trying to
convince anyone to not use his

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words for your own research.
I am simply giving you

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information to allow you to make
your own decision with the

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details that we know.
I personally will never pass of

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a book by Barker because I see
it being extremely important to

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know where certain details come
from.

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Which turns out that many modern
authors will put will pull their

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information directly from a
Barker book without

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understanding that he tended to
stretch the information for the

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shock value and pageantry.
This often becomes confusion in

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various forms of paranormal
communities and are taken as

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fact, which can be dangerous to
the underlying goal of the

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group.
So for one, I am an advocate for

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buying his books for buying
books by Barker because then you

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can find where claims such as
Andrew Cold and Valiant Thor

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being from the same militarized
alien team flying to Earth came

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from.
With all that said, the one book

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that he had that he was most
known for was the book he

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published in 1958 titled They
Knew Too Much About Flying

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Saucers, which is credited with
being the first book introducing

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the public to the concept of the
Men in Black and their

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connection to Ufology.
In this book, Barker makes

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mention of Albert Bender's Men
in Black experience and you can

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clearly see why many circles now
believe that Albert Bender's

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story is the first documented
run in with the Men in Black.

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Barker never outright claims
this is true, but with it being

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such a highlighted topic, it is
understood why so many now

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believe in the incidents
importance as being more than

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what it actually was.
Gray Barker first learned of

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Albert K Bender and his world
famous International Flying

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Saucer Bureau in the magazine
Other Worlds published by Ray

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Palmer, while looking for the
most recent addition to the

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famed Shaver mystery that we
discussed in our Hollow Earth

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series by Richard Sharp, Shaver
Gray would reach out to Bender

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and accept the position of Chief
and Chief Investigator of the

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Department of Investigations
with the IFSB after being

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offered the position by Bender
himself at the end of Chapter 5

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in Barker's book.
They knew too much about flying

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saucers.
Barker mentions a new twist to

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the story of Bender and his
encounter with the men in black.

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In this outline, Bender laid in
bed one night pondering the

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nature of flying saucers and
concluded that he felt it was

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rock solid at the time of the
true nature of flying saucers

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and drifted off to sleep.
In the morning he would write an

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article for the Space Review
magazine that the IFS be

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published and sent it to a
friend for review for being

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published.
But instead of getting a reply

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from his friend, Bender was
visited by three men dressed in

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all black who approached his
door with a letter firm in their

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grass.
It was during this encounter

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with the MIB that Bender was
told that everything in the

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letter was 100% factual and that
he could never share the

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information with anyone else.
There were even some threats to

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his life and livelihood mixed
into the conversation, according

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to Barker.
And this was the true reason for

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the shutdown of the IFSB.
This story would go on to be the

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quote UN quote official reason
for the closure of the IFSB that

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Bender would pass down to his
friends and colleagues of the

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IFSB.
But as mentioned in Bender's own

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book, this was not the real
reason and was only concocted in

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order to provide a believable
answer.

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Then, as mentioned earlier,
Bender would eventually come

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forward with the true reason for
flying saucers in his book

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Flying Saucers in The Three Men,
after he was given the knowledge

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that the mysterious men in black
were finally done with their

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current mission on Earth.
This came in the form of a small

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metal piece shaped like a flying
saucer disappearing.

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By the way, the true answer to
the mystery of the flying saucer

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was that they were the transport
vehicles used by the

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extraterrestrials who used the
image of the Men in Black to

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conduct UFO research sabotage
while using said flying saucers

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to collect water from the
Earth's oceans for use on their

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home planet.
All right, I know there's a lot

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there, but.
Can you, can you just say that

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last part for me again?
Like what?

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You know, Just say that whole
last sentence.

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Yeah, that's a big one.
The true answer to the mystery

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of the flying saucer was that
they were the transport vehicles

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used by the extraterrestrials
who use the image of the men in

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black to conduct UFO research
sabotage while using said flying

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saucers to collect water from
the Earth's oceans for use on

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their own planet.
Used the image of the men in

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black?
See, that's your voiceless gold

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tech right there.
Yeah.

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Man, there's also not.
Taking water?

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That's dumb.
Yeah, that is dumb, right?

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Tiny little tips.
Well.

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Pocket dimension type
technology, right?

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Maybe they can cram shit into
shit, I don't know, right?

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So if they have that kind of
technology, they could literally

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have a hose that goes from 1
dimension to another and sucks.

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Yeah.
Probably true too, I guess.

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Take our.
Ocean.

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Yeah, in the two books by Bender
and Barker, they both talk about

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the water.
Bender dives into the water more

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than Barker does.
Barker just mentions it as in in

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passing where Bender which his
book came out after Barker's

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book.
There's the whole thing behind

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why he couldn't come out and
tell the real story.

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He was afraid for his life.
Bunnier quotes right and that he

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couldn't actually come out with
the story until that little

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metal disc disappeared.
So he used to keep this metal

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disc in a little safe or box
underneath his bed.

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And the men in black always told
them that as long as that little

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disc is still in your box or
that it still exists where you

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can find it, we're still here on
this planet.

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Once we leave the planet, that
disc will go away and you can

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come out with your story.
So that's that's the whole

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reason, you know, that on top of
Bender stories being out of

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complete left field and nobody
believing it at all.

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Yeah.
So total bullshit.

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Yeah, there there's three
separate stories that are told,

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right?
There's the there's the one

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about the very sexy female
aliens that were rubbing oil all

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over his body.
That also cured him of a lot of

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illnesses and diseases.
Awesome.

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What if that is this?
Hold on, I'm sorry.

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What if that is the secret,
right?

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00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,840
And that's like the big secret
they're trying to keep from

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everybody is like, really?
We could cure cancer and all

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this stuff.
We know the cure.

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The cure is just you guys just
gotta have some.

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Some sexy aliens oil down your
butt.

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Oil you up and oil you up and
just give you the business you

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know and.
They have to get every inch

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inside and out.
Oh.

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00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,040
Whoa.
Yeah.

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00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,960
A lot of good intestines.
That's a good massage right

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there, boys.
That, that's the kicker right

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00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,480
there.
Live forever You ever been

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00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,960
massaged from the inside by sexy
aliens?

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00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,600
That's the kicker, man.
You you can live forever, but

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00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:26,480
you're going to get wristy.
Hey man, there's there's like

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00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,240
chicks that do that on the
Internet now with like alien

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stuff.
So it's not that out of the

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ordinary I guess.
Different strokes for different

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00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,120
folks, man.
I guess.

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Bender like that stuff?
Yeah.

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00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,600
Yeah, so not much more to talk
about there.

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00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,680
The whole concept of Bender
being visited by the Men in

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black in his room was something
that was in Barker's book and it

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00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,800
was not in Bender's book.
So at least in the same same

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00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,560
form, right in Bender's book, he
didn't talk about how he was

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laying in bed falling asleep and
thinking about the truth of

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saucers.
And it just dawned in his head.

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00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,480
And then Men in Black came in
his in his room and said, yeah,

230
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,000
you're right.
He talked about something

231
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,080
completely different.
Now.

232
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,560
This is why I spent so much time
talking about Barker, because

233
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,920
Barker does this a lot.
He does this with other topics

234
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,200
that we've covered before.
But, and I always put a

235
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,880
disclaimer in there because
there's a lot of things that

236
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:41,000
people believe that were
mentioned in Barker's books and

237
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,760
came from Barker's books.
They're the earliest source of

238
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,720
this information.
And you have to be careful with

239
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,640
a Barker book because Barker was
a storyteller.

240
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,600
He wasn't an investigator, he
wasn't a researcher.

241
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,080
He was a storyteller.
So he took the story, filled in

242
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,080
the gaps with his own
imagination, and sold it as

243
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,400
that.
He never, he never claimed to

244
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:09,680
sell books from his research.
It was all stories.

245
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,680
They're all fiction, yeah.
Right, right.

246
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,480
And when we covered Injured
Cold, one of the things I talked

247
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,920
about was Parker's book and how
he had Injured Cold and Valiant

248
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,480
Thor coming from the same
planet, flying on the same shit,

249
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,440
being in the same military,
Valiant Thor being a higher

250
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,000
ranking officer and Injured Cold
being a lower ranking officer.

251
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,880
So which is not mentioned
anywhere else either by Woody

252
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,200
Derrenberger, Tanya.
In fact, I think we asked her

253
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,280
about that in our interview
episode.

254
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,640
If I remember correctly.
It may have been one that I just

255
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,640
asked her just through text, but
she also denied that.

256
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,320
She's like, I don't know where
he got that from, but.

257
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,960
Yeah, you guys got?
Anything.

258
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:11,840
If the IFSB was sorry was
disbanded, does that mean that

259
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,560
we could make a podcast for
IFSB?

260
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,640
I don't know.
I don't know.

261
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,600
I don't know if there's a
copyright or anything to go with

262
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,640
that.
I wouldn't want to.

263
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,440
But no.
No.

264
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,200
It'd be all about just crapping
all over alien topics.

265
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,960
I wouldn't crap them, I find
those topics interesting.

266
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,400
I know, I know you do.
I find them interesting too.

267
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,520
I just don't believe them,
that's all.

268
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,200
Jeffy Good.
I'm golden, brother.

269
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,720
Let's go.
All right, we'll move on to the

270
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,320
shushed cases in his book.
They knew too much about flying

271
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,480
saucers.
Greg Barker made connections

272
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,880
with many other cases which
involved people who were shushed

273
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,880
by mysterious men after they had
an experience of their own or

274
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,200
came across some report of an
event that they shouldn't have.

275
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,480
One such man was given the
pseudonym Gordon Smallwood.

276
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,000
Smallwood story was similar to
the now famous Maury Island

277
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,480
incident which led to the first
ever documented Men in Black

278
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,520
encounter that we will cover in
detail in a separate episode.

279
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,520
And I know we talked about that
in the previous episode a little

280
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,040
bit, but we'll actually dive
into the Maury Island incident

281
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,800
on its own at some point.
Gordon Smallwood came across a

282
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,560
man after an event where a craft
in the sky was seen expelling

283
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,720
metallic materials in an
undisclosed area.

284
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,120
Smallwood approached the man and
was able to secure a piece of

285
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,440
the debris that the man had
collected.

286
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,680
Already being interested in the
phenomenon of flying saucers and

287
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,800
other UFOs, Smallwood began
looking for ways to find out

288
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,120
what the material could be
composed of.

289
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,840
To a surprise, it wasn't the lab
that sent him back the results

290
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,360
of the test, it was a man
claiming to be of his country's

291
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,520
government.
The strange man was dressed in a

292
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,080
Gray overcoat and blue tie,
which is much different than the

293
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,680
typical men in black encounter,
but the outcome was exactly the

294
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,720
same.
The strange man threatened to

295
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,840
not only Smallwood, but his wife
and child as well under the

296
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,080
circumstances of him going
public with his story and the

297
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,280
metal.
The strange thing here is that

298
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,280
Smallwood was still giving the
results of the test that he

299
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,360
ordered and was not so surprised
to find that it consisted of

300
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:42,320
titanium with a few other common
metals and alloys.

301
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,960
Barker would attempt many
different times in a few

302
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,040
different ways to pry some
information from Smallwood, but

303
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,840
he was very reluctant to let go
of any major information

304
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,800
involving the man and the
conversation that he had with

305
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,840
him.
But one thing was for certain,

306
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,640
whatever the man had told
Smallwood, it scared him.

307
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,200
Scared him enough to end his
love of flying saucers.

308
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,080
Just a few chapters prior to
Barker's chapter on his

309
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,800
attempted investigation into the
case of Gordon Smallwood, Barker

310
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,240
makes mention of another man's
encounter with the MIB.

311
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,320
Edgar R Gerald was the founder
of an organization similar to

312
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,720
the IFSD out of Australia titled
the Australian Flying Saucer

313
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,280
Bureau, who was approached by a
mysterious man who claimed to

314
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,120
have had incredible proof of
what the flying saucers were.

315
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,760
Unlike Bender's case, the man
didn't approach the AFSD to tell

316
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,760
them to shut down.
Rather, he was very open to

317
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,480
Gerald after he had sworn to
keep everything said between the

318
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,480
two of them a complete secret,
even from his wife.

319
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,480
However, the man did threaten
action if any of of the things

320
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,600
discussed between the men were
released in any kind of way.

321
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,240
Threats that were so serious
that the founder of another

322
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,840
flying saucer investigation
group would never speak of what

323
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,600
was said, other than the
conversation did happen and that

324
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,280
was and what was shared with him
was utterly shocking.

325
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,280
But he believed everything the
man said due to the evidence

326
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,320
that he had presented during one
of his four visits.

327
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,640
Jon E Stewart and Doreen A
Wilkinson were the two founders

328
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,480
of the Flying Saucer
Investigators of Hamilton, New

329
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,080
Zealand, a much smaller research
group dedicated to researching

330
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,480
the nature of UFOs.
One night, Jon would receive a

331
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,320
strange phone call from a man
who claimed to be from another

332
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,960
planet.
Quote Are you the Jon Stewart

333
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,440
who is interested in what Earth
men call flying saucers?

334
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,440
I warn you to stop interfering
in matters that do not concern

335
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,640
you.
When Jon replied with a question

336
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,320
regarding who it was that had
called him, the voice gave a

337
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:57,680
strange reply.
I am from another planet and

338
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,640
ended the call stating you have
been warned.

339
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,680
Although John hadn't laid eyes
on anyone, this does show many

340
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,280
signs of a run in with the
infamous Men in Black.

341
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,760
Such as the strange unfamiliar
way the person on the other side

342
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,200
of the line converses and form
sentences.

343
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,800
A strange crisp sound to the
phone call, as if the man was in

344
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,600
a room with absolutely no sound
or movement around him.

345
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,040
Or quite literally a void.
And of course the threat of stop

346
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,400
stopping.
The threat to stop investigating

347
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,560
flying saucers.
For a while there, nothing came

348
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,160
of it in the form of aliens or
flying saucers, but both John

349
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,280
and Doreen reported run
insurance with invisible

350
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,800
entities in and around their
personal homes.

351
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,280
One particular one which John
describes was when he was

352
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,440
watched a pair of moccasins walk
across his living room and stop

353
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,600
in front of the fireplace where
Doreen's one report described

354
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,040
her being chased by an invisible
culprit one night on her front

355
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,160
porch.
As she was walking into her

356
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,520
house, she could hear footsteps
behind her and when she turned

357
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,920
to face the stalker, she was
shocked to see nothing.

358
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,040
But when she turned back toward
the door, the sound of heavy

359
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,560
footsteps could be heard coming
from around her house again.

360
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,720
She looked back to see nobody
before she finally entered her

361
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,600
home for the night.
In 1955, Jon Stewart would write

362
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,840
to Barker for the last time,
explaining how he came across a

363
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,480
strange piece of metal that had
fallen from a UFO and how a

364
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,760
strange man came into his life.
Quote I had a visit from a bloke

365
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,840
who offered me some advice after
he had left.

366
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,640
I felt I should listen to what
he said.

367
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,920
You see, I had a piece of Gray
white metal and well, I haven't

368
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,520
got it.
Our friend thought he had more

369
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,640
right to it than I did.
I have learned a lot about UF OS

370
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,560
from this lad.
Oh yes, he told me a lot.

371
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,200
Too much.
Maybe for my own personal

372
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,240
safety, this would be his
goodbye letter to Barker.

373
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,640
In the world of saucer research,
John and Doreen would completely

374
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,120
split with their obsession, just
as many others did after coming

375
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,000
in contact with one or a few
strange formerly dressed men.

376
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:16,000
In the section in which we
discussed our Bender and Large,

377
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,600
I made quick mention of a man by
the name of Jim or James Mosley.

378
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,960
Mosley was a new researcher to
the field who had reached out to

379
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,520
Barker in hopes of getting hints
and tips about not only flying

380
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:33,680
saucers, but also how to publish
in general, but also about

381
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,840
publishing in general, as it was
his wish to begin his own

382
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,240
magazine.
The magazine would eventually

383
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,120
find the news stands under the
title Saucer News, but it's

384
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,720
early interest in finding the
truth about flying saucers was

385
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,320
changed suddenly in October 1954
when he had announced in the

386
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,040
headline The Flying Saucer
Mystery Solved with the last

387
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,960
sentence reading quote.
I would like to caution all

388
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,320
flying saucer researchers to be
extremely cautious in dealing

389
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,600
with certain phases of the
saucer mystery.

390
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,760
Sound familiar?
It was practically the context

391
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,080
of the final line given by
Bender in his last edition of

392
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,440
the Space Review magazine, in
which he published favorable

393
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,320
information.
On flying saucers, among these

394
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,000
particular examples, Barker has
also described the cases of

395
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,960
Elliott Rockmore of Flying
Saucer Review and Harold H

396
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,760
Holton.
It would seem that another

397
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,280
person was shushed and it was at
this point that the MIB were

398
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,360
given their first title that
described the concept that we

399
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,560
now know as Men in Black on an
international and familiar

400
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,280
level.
Gray Barker would go on to refer

401
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:54,960
to them as the Silence Group.
So we we we see an evolution

402
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,600
here.
So at first the MIB were known

403
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,600
as the Three Men because they
always showed up in groups of

404
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,560
three.
Yeah.

405
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:09,440
Then Barker gives them the title
of the Silence Group and then

406
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:16,640
eventually we move on to the Men
in Black, which is a title given

407
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,760
to them by John Keel.
It just seems like a lot of

408
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,360
these encounters, especially
from like these time periods,

409
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,120
not just this one, but other
ones we've talked about over the

410
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,400
years, right?
It's just like it always seems

411
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,440
to me to have a very, like the
story always fits that time

412
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,360
period, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense.

413
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,360
Like like what years are we
talking about right now exactly?

414
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,360
70s No. 70s.
No, no, it's. 50s, we're talking

415
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,000
about the 50s, right?
OK yeah, that's what I was

416
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,400
thinking.
So, you know, and you said

417
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,400
something about like this guy
saying like, you know, I'm from

418
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,200
another planet.
Like it just, it makes me think

419
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,440
of these cartoons from the 50s,
right where it's like I'm from

420
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,320
another planet.
Like we.

421
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,000
Are here for you know what I
mean, like it seems to me, or at

422
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,800
least that's what I get the vibe
from when I hear any of these

423
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,960
type, not any of them, but a lot
of them.

424
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,320
You know, it's like I saw a
saucer.

425
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,800
It was a silver saucer and it
was flying over the car like it

426
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,720
just seems very sure it was man,
because that's what it would do,

427
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,680
right?
I don't know, weird.

428
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:29,920
No, it's a good point.
It's.

429
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,760
Definitely a good point.
The the saucer phenomenon

430
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:41,720
started in 47 with that that
that Gosh, what was his fucking

431
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,240
name?
I'm drawing a blank.

432
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,080
I can't.
Believe that.

433
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:51,200
Kenneth Arnold with his sighting
over, I want to say it was over

434
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,800
in Mount Saint Helens in that
area.

435
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,200
I know it was in Washington
state, but anyways, he saw the

436
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,840
the 9 figures in the sky and he
reported how they they were

437
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,720
shaped or they moved such like
saucers on the water, right?

438
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,040
Basically the same as I would
describe as skipping stones,

439
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,800
right?
And he took that or they, the AP

440
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,640
Newswire, took that and turned
it into flying saucers.

441
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,400
Yeah.
Which actually, what he saw was

442
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,480
more boomerang shape than than
saucer shapes.

443
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,640
So it's.
I think I, I think I made the

444
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,400
same criticism to Tanya
Darenberger when we had that

445
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,080
talk with her.
I was like, you know, it always

446
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,520
just seems so like convenient
that these stories, you know,

447
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,280
'cause like, dude, just, you
know, like the descriptions of

448
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,360
him was like your typical dude
in that time frame.

449
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,000
Like why would these aliens be
looking like this?

450
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,840
You know, why wouldn't they show
up looking totally different,

451
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,520
dressed in some, you know, I
don't know, some ancient Mayan

452
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,480
regalia or some kind, you know,
some weird shit, you know?

453
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,320
Yeah, they they choose to come
looking like people.

454
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,360
Yeah, dressed, as, you know, in
a suit from the 50s.

455
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:22,640
Yeah, For me, I'm honestly not
too skeptical.

456
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:30,920
I guess if we've been the
federal government or someone

457
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,080
associated with the federal
government has been researching

458
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:42,120
UFOs for so long.
I mean, the amount of, you know,

459
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,120
making people disappear that the
federal government has, it would

460
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,680
make a lot of sense to me if
someone showed up.

461
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,320
It couldn't.
You know, you can call them

462
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,640
whatever you want.
You know the men in black, the

463
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,760
silent silencing group or
whatever, right?

464
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,440
But someone shows up from the
feds to tell you to stop your

465
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,480
research of UFOs because you're
getting too close to the answer.

466
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,200
That's, you know, top secret.
They don't want it getting out.

467
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,840
And if you don't, they'll you'll
never be found.

468
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,040
You know, your family will just
lose contact with you, you

469
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,880
there's no obituary, there's no
grave.

470
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,320
You'll you will disappear and
never be found again.

471
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,400
Type stuff.
That would be enough to get me

472
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,520
to stop.
Look, you know, doing a podcast

473
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,080
or, you know, doing a, a
magazine or something like that,

474
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080
right?
And it's just like, OK.

475
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,960
I knew you're a shill.
Yeah, well, so, but then again,

476
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,840
you know, you have other
outliers like, you know, gosh,

477
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,280
what's that guy's name?
The Area 51 guy for the Bob

478
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,520
Lazar.
Bob Lazar.

479
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,640
You get those sort of guys that
are just like, you know, it

480
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,760
doesn't matter what you say to
me, I'm going to do what I want

481
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,120
to do right.
And then, you know, prove it

482
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,680
right type stuff.
So, but you know, just coming

483
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:14,120
out out of World War 2,
everyone's so, you know, don't

484
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,960
want to get pegged for being a
traitor or treasonous and all

485
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,560
that sort of stuff.
You know, the communism scares

486
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,640
coming, all that sort of stuff.
But you know, and that would be

487
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,520
rough too, saying like, you
know, if I were in that time

488
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160
frame to make a threat to
someone to stop them from doing

489
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,600
what they're doing.
It's be like, not only will you

490
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,320
never be found and you're going
to have a horrible, terrible

491
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:46,520
death, but also we're going to
spin a story that you were in

492
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,640
fact a communist or you were a
Hitler supporter or whatever it

493
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,040
was.
And not only are you going to

494
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,600
die, but it's going to ruin the
life of everybody in your family

495
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,880
and type stuff like it's, you
know, you ran away to go join

496
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,320
the the socialists or something
like that, right.

497
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:13,320
So it's like, I don't know, I'm
not, I'm not too jumpy on the

498
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
whole idea of like, oh, all this
stuff is made-up.

499
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,000
Certainly I don't believe that
they were aliens, you know, but

500
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,520
government workers coming to to
shut something down.

501
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Yeah, I can see that.
Yeah, I I would think that the

502
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Men in Black would be much
scarier.

503
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,560
Right.
Yeah, kind kind of along the

504
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,240
lines with what you were saying.
And the thing that really

505
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,480
bothers me about Bender, instead
of going down the the threat

506
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,080
path, instead they went down the
path of, Oh yeah, why don't you

507
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,520
come in, hang out with all of
our most beautiful women and get

508
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,520
oil massaged.
Oiled from the inside to the

509
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,720
outside.
Like, oh man, what a threat.

510
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,520
Yeah.
But I, I don't know, I'm, I'm

511
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,960
going to save my opinion for
what I believe with the men in

512
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,880
black at the end.
I I already know what's coming

513
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,320
up so.
Well, I mean, yeah.

514
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,920
And that's that's where you have
me and Jeff.

515
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,160
I mean, I guess I could read
your whole script, but I'm not

516
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,920
going to, but because I want the
surprise of it.

517
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,440
But from what I've heard so far,
like that one seems more legit

518
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,320
to me.
Is someone being scared to the

519
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:45,280
point of stopping their research
into something because this

520
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,000
something has is so high in the
national security, you know,

521
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,760
realm that if you start getting
kind of close to the answer, you

522
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,760
know, especially in that time
frame, I don't know about now.

523
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Now you could make up someone's
got to be right, right?

524
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,400
We've said enough things on the
show.

525
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,240
One of us has to be right at
this point.

526
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:11,000
But back in the day, you know,
with the threat of espionage

527
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,360
and, and, you know, being a
traitor and all that sort of

528
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,520
stuff so high, I think that
there might have been that sort

529
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,920
of a reaction of, you know,
these people are getting pretty

530
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,800
close to the real answer.
Someone go shut it down and make

531
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,720
sure that they stop, right type
stuff.

532
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,560
And if they don't, then we'll do
further action.

533
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:37,280
So I'm not surprised by this.
I.

534
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,480
Where was I going with this?
Damn it?

535
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Oh.
Nowhere.

536
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,800
Yeah, I lost it.
Thanks.

537
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,800
Damn it.
You're welcome, dude.

538
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,200
Yeah, yeah, Now I just sound
stupid.

539
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Anyways, I do want to take a
quick shout out real quick for

540
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,640
for those who died.
Thanks for the follow.

541
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:04,320
Appreciate that, guys.
Ready to move on.

542
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,640
All right, we're going to talk
about John Keel.

543
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,600
I'm personally a huge fan of
John Keel as the man truly had

544
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,639
an advanced way of thinking
about certain details about

545
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:20,000
investigating Fortian topics
that I believe are too absent

546
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520
from the modern day researchers
repertoire.

547
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,400
Keel was a reporter and to those
that knew him they would often

548
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,719
refer to him as weird,
sensationalistic, thoughtful,

549
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,360
brilliant, obsessive and often
gave people the creeps.

550
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,159
Alan Greenfield was quoted by
author Nick Redfern as saying

551
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:39,679
this about Keel.
Quote.

552
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,040
There was, shall we say, some
definite poetic license in

553
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,760
Keel's writing, but he was an
absolutely fascinating

554
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,560
individual to sit down and talk
with.

555
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,719
He had a spellbinding voice.
I would not refer to him as a

556
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,679
friend.
He actually gave me the creeps.

557
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,840
If he had put on a black suit
and come to my door, I certainly

558
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,280
would have thought this is one
of the men in black.

559
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,440
Overall, there was a very mixed
set of thoughts and feelings

560
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,800
about Keel, but one thing that
everyone seemed to agree on was

561
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,800
that he was very passionate
about the subjects he researched

562
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,880
and he certainly knew what he
was talking about.

563
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,640
Barker was a ufologist and Keel
was a reporter, and it was clear

564
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,760
that their work and research
were very different, although

565
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,000
the topics they covered often
overlapped.

566
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,640
Even though I am a huge fan of
Keel, I still take his

567
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:34,960
publications with a grain of
salt.

568
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,200
It is true that he was a
brilliant mind, but his intense

569
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:43,040
interests made him succumb to a
few tricks that he took as fact,

570
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,560
and more than a few of those
came directly and admittedly

571
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,400
from great Gray Barker and a
close friend of his, Jim Mosley.

572
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,960
John Keel's book The Mothman
Prophecies was published in 1975

573
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,960
and is the best known among many
other great books that Keel had

574
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,640
published in his lifetime.
It too happened to highlight the

575
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,280
so-called Men in Black in a
majority of the book.

576
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,360
Overall, The Mothman Prophecies
covers many topics ranging from

577
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,280
UF OS, alien beings such as
injured, cold, strange

578
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,840
phenomenon happening to people's
phone lines, a plethora of out

579
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,320
of towners that swamped the town
of Pointe Pleasant, West

580
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,840
Virginia.
The Men in Black, a wide series

581
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,000
of strange shoe prints that
seemed to match what would later

582
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,400
be used for the astronauts who
visited, visited the moon and

583
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,560
the print that it left in the
solar soil.

584
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,320
And of course, it also touches
on the story of the Mothman.

585
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,440
In fact, the book is about his
intended research into the

586
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Mothman phenomenon in Point
Pleasant that turned into a

587
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,240
descriptive retelling of the
other high strangeness that he

588
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,640
witnessed during his time in the
area, most of which had

589
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,040
seemingly nothing to do with the
Mothman.

590
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,040
Yes, there is a Hollywood movie
adaption of The Mothman

591
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,760
Prophecies, but it is not one of
those movies you can watch and

592
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,400
get a decent idea about what the
book is about.

593
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,320
Hollywood took John Keel's book
and took the bare minimum out of

594
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,560
the publication and refilled it
with many common tropes that are

595
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,920
maked in Hollywood films
throughout their history.

596
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,400
But enough about the movie.
In the very beginning of this

597
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,280
amazing piece of literature,
Keel tells of a report of an

598
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,840
over 6 foot tall man dressed
entirely in black who is

599
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,320
knocking on the door of a local
farmhouse late at night.

600
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,840
Quote.
He wore a black suit, black tie,

601
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,720
Black Hat and black overcoat
with impractical black dress

602
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:43,880
shoes covered with mud.
Quoted from the very first page

603
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,160
of the Mothman Prophecies.
This would happen to be a common

604
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,720
report coming from the immediate
area Point Pleasant in 1967, and

605
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,320
was the basis for various parts
in the early portion of the

606
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,000
book.
But this specific account is of

607
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,880
interest as three weeks later,
the couple who had answered the

608
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,840
door for the mysterious man
dressed in all black passed away

609
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,760
when the area suffered its most
deadly event in its history, the

610
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,280
collapse of the Silver Bridge.
But shortly after the

611
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,800
introduction to this report,
Keel reveals that this

612
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,840
particular encounter was a
retelling of an encounter that

613
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,520
wasn't actually an MIB, but
rather it was himself who came

614
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,400
to that farmhouse door late at
night asking to use a phone

615
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,760
after his car ran off the road.
It was an honest attempt at

616
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,840
finding a phone to use to call a
tow truck.

617
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,880
Just prior to showing up to the
Ohio Valley area, John Keel was

618
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,480
in Atlanta, GA with a Miss Mary
hire giving presentations on the

619
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,440
UFO phenomenon.
It was when they were a few

620
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:52,120
miles outside of Gallopolis,
Ohio in Point Pleasant, WV did

621
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,840
John's car breakdown and he was
forced out in the rainy night to

622
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,560
find a phone to use at the end
of December.

623
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,840
In 1967, Mary Higher would have
her own strange run in with the

624
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,400
Men in Black.
That would that we will discuss

625
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,000
in the last portion of this
entire presentation where we

626
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,440
discuss encounters with the MIB.
But due to Hires Encounter and

627
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,920
many others that he details in
the book The Mothman Prophecies,

628
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,640
Kiel explains that there was
something strange going on and

629
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,200
it involved some very
questionable characters dressed

630
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,320
in all black suits in an area of
the country that wasn't very

631
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,080
well known for such attire.
In chapter 13, a chapter titled

632
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,400
Phantom Photographers, Kiel
describes a strange coincidental

633
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,040
set of three incidents that
happens to him that happened to

634
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,200
himself, Mary Hire, and a fellow
director by the name of Dan

635
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:49,600
Drayson, who was to head to
Point Pleasant area to The Who

636
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,480
was to head to the Point
Pleasant area with Keel to shoot

637
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960
a video about UF OS.
All three of them had an

638
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,840
instance where a strange man
dressed in all black took photos

639
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,920
of them from a fairly close up
distance.

640
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,320
Keel would go on to mention a
few other specific

641
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,880
circumstances, some of which I
will cover in our last episode

642
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,080
of the series when we discuss
encounters.

643
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,800
As well as the point that he had
received similar reports of

644
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,840
black garbage men taking photos
of people who witnessed UFOs or

645
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,760
other strange phenomenon from
across the country, and even

646
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,200
included a report or two of men
in England in 1973.

647
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,720
In the two years of 1967 and 68,
Keel would go on to gather

648
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,120
hundreds of reports of strange
sounds in people's phones across

649
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,720
the country.
Many of the people would report

650
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,240
it as a perverted man breathing
into the phone, getting some

651
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:49,520
sort of sick thrill, overhearing
a woman's voice on the other

652
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,720
line.
But when Keel began receiving

653
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,720
these calls as well, he would
come to describe the sound as

654
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:59,840
too mechanical and regular to
become to be someone's

655
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,440
breathing.
He compared the actual sound to

656
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,160
that of the sound of a
phonograph when it is at its

657
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,640
end.
He was convinced that these

658
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,080
strange sounds, which were
sometimes accompanied by other

659
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,720
sounds such as beeps, were
electronic in nature.

660
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,280
After a little investigation of
his own phone lines, he found

661
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,320
that it was a phone tap that was
the culprit.

662
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,680
Someone had a trying to listen
to his conversations.

663
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:38,200
All right, so The Mothman
Prophecies is a book about John

664
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,440
Keel's trip to Point Pleasant,
WV and other areas of the Ohio

665
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,360
Valley.
In that general area along the

666
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,840
Ohio River, the reason why he's
there is to look into the

667
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,720
Mothman.
While he's there.

668
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:59,600
He finds that there is something
going on with black suited men

669
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,480
and there's also a strange group
of other men that are wearing

670
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,880
black coveralls, neatly pressed,
saying that they're from the

671
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,480
hydro electric company and
they're all over the place.

672
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,800
There were people that were
reporting them working on the

673
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,640
bridge the day that it
collapsed.

674
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,920
If you remember when we talked
about the bridge in in the

675
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,760
Injured Cold series, I'd want to
say 50 something people.

676
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Died.
It was two or three days before

677
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,240
Christmas.
So in a small town like Point

678
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:40,840
Pleasant, WV or was a small
town, it's fairly, it's getting

679
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,640
up there now.
People notice when there's

680
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,360
people that look strange and
when you see a company that you

681
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,760
don't recognize and you see that
the entire area is swamped with

682
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,680
people and they're sharing the
same skin pigment as these

683
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,160
mysterious men in black.
By the way, the men in black in

684
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,800
the Mothman Prophecies were a
dark olive color.

685
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:12,440
So was injured cold, by the way.
And so were these mysterious men

686
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,520
who were working for the hydro
electric company.

687
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,760
So, and a lot of our our
encounter stories that we'll do

688
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,360
in the last episode come from
the Mothman Prophecies.

689
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,000
What I wonder if maybe they're
clones man.

690
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,640
Maybe.
Maybe.

691
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400
Maybe they're, you know, they're
not aliens or anything.

692
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,920
Maybe they're just clones, you
know, built in a deep

693
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,120
underground military facility
somewhere, some something like

694
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,600
that.
And that's who they have.

695
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,560
Like I, I still kind of think
that it's just the, you know,

696
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,600
the muscle for the shadow
government.

697
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,080
If there's no better term, I
need to find a better term than

698
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,640
shadow government, but you know
what I mean.

699
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,360
I hear you.
What?

700
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,080
Do you think man?
I don't know what I think.

701
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,960
It's weird.
You guys ready to move on?

702
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,240
I'm glad to hear though that the
book is different from the movie

703
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:19,400
because I was very confused when
I watched the movie and I was

704
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,960
just like, all this stuff is in
this guy's book like that.

705
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,200
It's not.
It's not.

706
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,200
It's terrible movie.
I like the movie.

707
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,160
I like really fact.
I liked it when the main

708
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,920
character was on the phone
towards the end and he was on

709
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,080
the phone with injured cold.
I thought that was pretty cool.

710
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,200
There, there was some parts that
were that were pretty cool.

711
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:43,360
They got some things right.
But honestly, it is bare bones

712
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,400
what the book's about.
Man, the book is, is great.

713
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,560
I, I love that book.
It's very old.

714
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,120
I mean, it's from the 70s,
right?

715
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,080
But there's some.
There's definitely some.

716
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,160
There's some.
Stuff.

717
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:05,720
Choice descriptions of people
you words that we don't use now.

718
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,280
Yeah.
Yeah, not that I condone it, but

719
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,200
for for what it is piece of
history, especially within 40

720
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,560
and studies, it is a phenomenal
book.

721
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,280
Well, I'll see if they have an
audio book and I'll listen to

722
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:26,960
it.
I'm at work.

723
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,040
It you should, you should.
It's very good.

724
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,440
Crystal said.
You've seen that terrible movie,

725
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,000
but not Star Wars.
That's true.

726
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,560
I did.
I did see that terrible movie,

727
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,840
saw that terrible movie twice
before I ever watched Star Wars.

728
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,640
All right, so I I will say that
I have attempted to watch Star

729
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,560
Wars a couple times in my life
and I fell asleep and I fell

730
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,120
asleep probably within like the
first 3 minutes.

731
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,560
Nice, I got it on an audio book
so I'll give it a listen.

732
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,600
Nice.
Aren't you proud of me?

733
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,240
Yeah, man.
Yeah, I might not know how to

734
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:10,680
read, but I can listen.
Nice, that's good stuff man, I

735
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,320
am proud of you.
Thanks Steve all.

736
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:13,760
Right.
You guys ready to move on?

737
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,640
Ready.
All right, let's talk about Keel

738
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,320
stance.
Kiel spent a lot of time

739
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,880
researching various cases of
various phenomena throughout

740
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,640
much of the world.
In the case of Men in Black, in

741
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,160
the book Mothman Prophecies,
Kiel describes the humanoids

742
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,160
that were plaguing certain areas
of the country in the 70s as

743
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,440
quote.
He is built exactly like a

744
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,680
stands from 5 feet 6 inches to
six feet tall, looks very human,

745
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,400
but has high cheekbones,
unusually long fingers, and an

746
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,640
oriental cast to his features.
His complexion is olive or

747
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,920
reddish.
He speaks every language,

748
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,080
sometimes mechanically, as if he
is reciting memorized speech,

749
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,440
sometimes fluently.
He has trouble breathing, often

750
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,440
wheezing and gasping between
words.

751
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,800
John Keel had a very wide range
of beliefs on various topics of

752
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,800
the 40th, and one such belief
centered around the idea of how

753
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,520
many UFO clubs had attached the
extraterrestrial title to the

754
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,720
concept of the Men in Black.
His explanation for how this was

755
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:22,520
not a very good deduction was
simple.

756
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,840
Someone who is obsessed with
UFOs and the idea of little

757
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,360
green men from a planet far away
in the void of space would no

758
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,840
doubt conclude that the
phenomenon of the men in black

759
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,760
came from the same planet or
even the same race as the aliens

760
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,120
who fly to UFOs we commonly see
in the skies of our planet.

761
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,920
Which would leave most of this
group to overlook any and all

762
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,600
other possibilities.
Another common interpretation

763
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,720
from tribes of UFO researchers
is to place the blame on the

764
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:54,960
villain of their own story,
which in most cases ends up

765
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,720
being the government or the
military.

766
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,520
Although both of these have a
chance of being true, neither of

767
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,440
them deserves 100% of 1's
attention when attempting to

768
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,560
discover the truth about these
men in black.

769
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,280
This same concept is slightly
twisted when he dips into the

770
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,800
idea of how the government or
military hires astronomers or

771
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,000
astrobiologists to lead their
many different secretive UFO

772
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,880
investigation committees, most
of which we discuss in episodes

773
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:26,560
182 and 183 in our U.S.
government UFO Programs 40s to

774
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,960
the 90s series released in
September 2024.

775
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,200
The problem with this is that an
astronomer will only help with

776
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,280
the idea that the beings come
from space.

777
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,160
But if the truth is that UF, OS
and the Men in Black come from

778
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,160
here on Earth, then we are
literally looking in the wrong

779
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,680
direction and completely
ignoring the thought of turning

780
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:50,240
around and facing the other way.
He explained how this was also

781
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:52,800
seen in cultures throughout the
world and time.

782
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,840
Medieval Scotland, Ireland and
Wales attached the legend of the

783
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,240
Fae to anything and everything
unexplained.

784
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,600
Many cultures have attached the
title of gods to mysterious

785
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,320
beings throughout history, while
Christians point to demonic

786
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,280
figures for the same, while in
the modern world we have

787
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,760
attached the world
extraterrestrial to a human like

788
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,720
figure that we are unfamiliar
with.

789
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,120
But are any of these true?
Unfortunately, we may never

790
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,240
learn the answer to this
question, but you can see what

791
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:22,560
John Keel was trying to explain
about influences and how

792
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,000
different groups of people will
look at a phenomenon such as the

793
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,520
Men in Black and attach
different titles to them.

794
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,600
But it was Keel's opinion that
there was nothing

795
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,480
extraterrestrial to the Men in
Black.

796
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,040
Throughout his 25 years of
research into the subject, he

797
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,880
had created a new term to
describe these beings,

798
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,000
ultraterrestrials.
He defines the term

799
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,280
ultraterrestrial as being quote,
beings and forces which coexist

800
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,920
with us but are on another time
frame.

801
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,160
That is, they operate outside of
our space-time continuum, yet

802
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,800
have the ability to cross over
into our reality.

803
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,080
He believed that the place, if
you can call it that, that these

804
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,480
acts that these ultra
terrestrials came from is less

805
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,880
physical, but rather it is a
state of energy.

806
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,560
Instead.
He comes to this as his best

807
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,520
possible answer at the time the
Mothman Prophecies was written

808
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,840
and points to a long history of
people seeing lights or objects

809
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,680
in the sky in the 1400s.
They believed that they were

810
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,800
looking up and seeing witches
flying around.

811
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,760
Ancient China believed they they
were Dragons.

812
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,720
Ancient Egyptians and South
Americans believed that they

813
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,400
were their gods.
Fairies make their appearance

814
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,720
here as well as many Celtic
cultures believed that the Fae

815
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:36,680
were the culprits.
Various tribes of Native

816
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,080
Americans had their own answers
such as spirits, witch doctors,

817
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,600
gods, or in some cases little
people very much the same as

818
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,000
fae.
Today we look at the same lights

819
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,760
and attach the terms that were
propagandized to us our whole

820
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,000
lives, such as
extraterrestrials.

821
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,560
But one thing is for sure, they
have always been there and it

822
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,640
would seem that they always will
be.

823
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,680
So they must be environmental
and natural to the earth itself.

824
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,960
But why can we not discover who
they are or where they are from?

825
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,200
Because according to Keel, we
may not live in the same

826
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,200
dimension or even on the same
plane of existence.

827
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,080
They may be beings that live
outside of what we know as the

828
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,960
physical realm.
So what do you guys think?

829
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,960
I agree.
Demons, that's all they are.

830
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,920
Yeah, I mean too.
Look, there's a part of me that

831
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,920
does for sure.
It's probably more likely a a

832
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,320
man made phenomena.
I think, you know, clone

833
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,480
probably or just just people or
whatever.

834
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,200
It's my lab.
It's probably a offshoot project

835
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,200
from my lab projects is what I
really think it is.

836
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,560
But again, there are, like I
said at the very beginning,

837
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,440
before you even talked about any
of this, there's men in black

838
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:04,920
all the way down the ladder,
right?

839
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,720
Like even basic shit, right?
They'll come knock on your door

840
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:10,280
for if you type the wrong shit
on the Internet.

841
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,040
So.
But yeah.

842
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:19,120
I'm going to look up on my phone
an alien spaceship crashed in my

843
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,280
backyard.
What do I do and see who shows

844
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,760
up?
What, what I was looking up

845
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,360
while you were talking was if
there was any, like any ancient

846
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,280
stories of anything that might
resemble the Men in Black,

847
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:33,600
right.
And I couldn't really find

848
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,000
anything just in a couple
minutes.

849
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,360
But hey, that would be
interesting.

850
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,040
I got you.
You got something OK.

851
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,800
I got something it's.
It's probably not exactly what

852
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,960
you're looking for, but I talked
about it in the very next topic.

853
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,760
Because that to me, would be the
difference, right?

854
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:55,440
Like, what would make these
aliens from other civilizations

855
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,920
interact with us differently now
than then, right?

856
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,040
Why?
Why then would they show up and

857
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,000
give our ancestors knowledge or
whatever the stories were at the

858
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,920
time?
And now all of a sudden they're

859
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,120
showing up as like dudes in
suits, you know, trying to keep

860
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,320
us from, you know, knowing the
truth or whatever the case is.

861
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,400
Crystal says.
This dude sounds creepy as fuck.

862
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,920
She talking about John Keel.
John Keel's not creepy.

863
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:33,880
He's weird, but he's not.
Yeah, maybe he is creepy, but

864
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,280
he's smart.
He's smart.

865
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Right now, the breathing thing,
she said.

866
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,200
The breathing thing.
The breathing thing, I don't

867
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,080
know what.
Say it loud.

868
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:49,200
What?
When he was talking in to catch

869
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,200
his brothers and I don't know.
Oh.

870
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,600
She's talking about me.
No, the fucking guy.

871
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,320
You had a description.
Oh, Oh yeah.

872
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,840
Yeah, yeah, you Jeremy.
She's like, yeah, Jeremy.

873
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,320
I don't like the way that guy
breathes.

874
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:08,400
I want to punch him in the
throat.

875
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,080
All right, you guys ready to
move on?

876
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,800
This is the last last section.
What are they?

877
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,360
Tell me, Jeremy.
This the title of this section

878
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,480
is what are they?
Thanks, Jake.

879
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,520
Cool going.
Back to the Going back to the

880
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,880
beginning of this presentation,
I said you have three questions,

881
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,680
one of which was who are they?
Although nobody can say for

882
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,960
sure, there are a lot of options
and theories that have been

883
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,760
bounced around.
Theories ranging from

884
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,800
hallucinations, hoaxes, tulpas,
vampires, time travelers,

885
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,760
members of the government,
demonic entities, cosmic

886
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,920
twisters, and even other
civilian researchers that want

887
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,760
to get.
Rid of their competition.

888
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,920
In the case of Keel, Bender, and
Barker, there is a theory that

889
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,960
the Men in Black phenomenon
could be caused by

890
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,880
hallucinations or simply a hoax.
Bender was a man who suffered

891
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,920
from severe migraines and often
admitted to seeing things that

892
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,520
may not have actually been
there.

893
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,480
With the propulsion of the topic
in Barker's book.

894
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,600
In regard to Bender's incidents,
a common theory is that all of

895
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,040
the reports of Strange Men in
Black are simply people who are

896
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,320
overthinking, misinterpreting,
or hoaxing an idea that was made

897
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:27,600
famous through these two men.
Same could go for Keel and

898
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,200
possibly many others when it
comes to the theory of hoaxes in

899
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,680
general.
Keel was susceptible to

900
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,880
believing hoaxes and even
reported on them as facts a few

901
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,280
times.
In his incredibly popular book

902
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,160
The Mothman Prophecies, Keel
lays out his research and

903
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,640
experiences on the story of the
population of Point Pleasant, WV

904
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,040
and the surrounding areas,
issues with strange men knocking

905
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,480
on the doors in the wake of the
Silver Bridge collapse and the

906
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,640
Mothman sightings.
Gray Barker, being a known

907
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,440
prankster of sorts, or at least
a man who like to entertain, has

908
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,560
admitted to being the source for
a few incidents mentioned in the

909
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,960
book, but what is unclear is how
many incidents were fabricated

910
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,680
by Barker and believed by Keel.
Could Keel have created an

911
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,720
entire best selling book off of
pranks played by Barker?

912
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,680
Unlikely, but not impossible.
Then there were those that

913
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,720
reported Keel himself as being
one of the strange men knocking

914
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:23,360
on the doors wearing an all
black suit.

915
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,920
So the same question is asked if
it is possible that followers of

916
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,200
Keel could have been reporting
their own incidents due to a

917
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,560
hoax that was played on Keel.
Then there is of course the

918
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,840
possibility.
The possibility that these

919
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:41,080
reports by Keel and Bender are
real and the future reports are

920
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,840
hallucinations or hoaxes, as
well as possibility that they

921
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,960
all are hallucinations or
hoaxes, but I personally find it

922
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,800
unlikely.
In our coverage of the Slender

923
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,960
Man in episode 153 I dove into
the concept and a bit of a

924
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,880
history of Tolbas and there are
many out there that believe that

925
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,200
the Men in Black are also a form
of Tolba.

926
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,480
As a very brief summary of the
concept, a Tolpa is a physical

927
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,240
manifestation of an entity due
to someone's thoughts or a

928
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:15,080
culmination of a group's efforts
through either belief or prayer.

929
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,320
Basically, the question
surrounding the theory is, could

930
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,440
the entire phenomenon of the Men
in Black only exist because

931
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,120
people believe they exist?
Author Nick Redfern has a really

932
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,280
good case for this theory in his
book The Real Men in Black.

933
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,440
He begins by explaining that MIB
encounters seem to be extremely

934
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,920
randomized.
What he means by this in

935
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,480
particular is that it would seem
that it does not matter how big

936
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,360
of an event it is that they show
up for, they show up to big and

937
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,520
small events alike.
Some of the most insignificant

938
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,960
incidents had had the presence
of these black suited beings

939
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,400
show up and some of the most
impactful and highly publicized

940
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,880
events have not.
It would seem that there is a

941
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:03,240
possibility that they show up to
those that are aware of them.

942
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,720
One thing about Tolpas is that
they require intense emotional

943
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,960
states to be able to manifest.
Then someone sees something that

944
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,440
they believed to be from outside
of their known existence.

945
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,280
This would trigger the emotional
response that would typically be

946
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,400
needed in order for a Tolpa to
appear.

947
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,320
And if the victim happens to
know about the phenomenon, then

948
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,360
you will have all the
ingredients for a visit from the

949
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,560
Men in Black.
The specific emotional response

950
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,160
that they are thought to be
looking for is fear.

951
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,400
The concept of the Men in Black
possibly being a tulpa vampire

952
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,800
of sorts is a common theory as
well.

953
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,560
Vampires and these Men in Black
have a few things in common.

954
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,560
The traditional vampire has been
described on many occasions,

955
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:53,400
albeit mostly by Hollywood, as a
humanoid creature with pale or

956
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,720
white skin, a frail body, and if
they are wearing clothes, it has

957
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,320
been commonly portrayed that the
clothes are a three piece black

958
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,840
suit with a white undershirt.
But the real interesting bit to

959
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,520
me is the weird detail that many
Men in Black encounters feature

960
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,680
the beings not coming into the
person's home unless invited.

961
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,520
There are even reports of them
standing awkwardly at the door

962
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,440
with the home owner holding the
door open for them and only

963
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,440
entering when they are given a
verbal or physical cue.

964
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,840
Now we bring the tulpa into the
vampire theory.

965
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:28,600
What if the vampire wasn't or
isn't a being that is set for

966
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,480
blood?
What if they only show

967
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,160
themselves as what you believe
to be the most frightening thing

968
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,120
in your beliefs?
In the past this may have been

969
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,960
in the form of a frail human
with large teeth that would

970
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,440
drain you of your blood and
leave you for debt, but today it

971
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,200
comes in the form of a
government looking official

972
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,080
coming to silence you when you
witness something you fear you

973
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,680
shouldn't have.
Ultimately the feast wouldn't be

974
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,240
on blood, it would be on fear.
Therefore, the old concepts of

975
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,640
vampires were wrong.
The witnesses were only

976
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,640
reporting what they saw.
In a nutshell, the MIB could be

977
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,440
vampires, but they show
themselves in a modern form with

978
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,360
the possibility that vampires
themselves were Tolbuzz to begin

979
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,280
with, who require the fear that
you radiate in a frightening

980
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,040
situation.
I personally thought this was

981
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,240
interesting and maybe the best
explanation for the existence of

982
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,800
the MIB.
But the first thing that came to

983
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,360
mind in response was what about
those that did not know anything

984
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,080
about the Men in Black?
Other than there was a series of

985
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,040
comedy action films made about a
secret organization set to be

986
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,680
the controllers of the flow of
alien beings in and out planet

987
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,160
we call home and information
pertaining to such.

988
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:47,920
This happens and it seems to
happen a lot.

989
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,760
I don't know if that would be
enough to elicit a response in

990
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,920
the shape of a tulpa, as I have
to admit that my tulpa knowledge

991
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,000
is a bit limited.
But as outlined by many authors

992
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,800
of books in my various topics of
research, topas can become

993
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,360
reality and if they are now
real, you don't need to believe

994
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,680
in them.
They now exist either way.

995
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,920
Then there are those.
Then there are those that tie

996
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,480
the Men in Black with the fairy
folklore of various countries in

997
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,160
Western Europe.
Some even claim that they are

998
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,120
the tricksters that are told of
in various lore mythologies

999
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,520
throughout the world.
But one of the more

1000
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,560
informational theories about the
modern Men in Black is that they

1001
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,800
are simply either people
mistaken for Men in Black, or

1002
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,400
they are people trying to
portray themselves as the Men in

1003
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,200
Black.
Nick Redford makes a really good

1004
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,640
point as he mentions the
cutthroat nature of various UFO

1005
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,640
logical groups.
Each one is trying to have the

1006
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,960
exclusive rights to as many
stories as they possibly can.

1007
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,760
I can comfortably say that this
point is extremely valid.

1008
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,920
UFO groups are horrible and
everyone tries to cut the other

1009
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,400
guy down a few pegs on a regular
basis.

1010
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,360
A group who is aware of the lore
behind the Men in Black may very

1011
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,760
well be dressing up as the MIB
only to come to your home and

1012
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,000
tell you to drop all research on
a specific subject and to not

1013
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,400
talk to anybody else about what
they saw.

1014
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,120
This also helps answer the
question about why the MI BS

1015
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,640
seem to choose certain cases at
random.

1016
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,880
The UFO research community does
a great job at combing through

1017
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,160
all reports, mostly because the
bulk of them come directly to

1018
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,720
them via reporting forms people
can fill out in various

1019
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,440
websites.
There is no doubt in my mind

1020
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,880
that this has happened a number
of times, but yet again, I don't

1021
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,840
think this is the only answer.
There are plenty of cases where

1022
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,840
the experiencer has never come
forward about what they saw.

1023
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:49,200
They never told a soul about
that night when they were

1024
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,600
walking home and a flying saucer
flew overhead.

1025
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,960
But yet the men in Black arrive.
Then what about a government

1026
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,720
agency being behind the MMB?
This I can also see as being

1027
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,120
true for a large sample of
encounter stories.

1028
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,880
I mean, the Men in black that
show up in military outfits or

1029
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:10,160
with FBI badges may actually be
from a branch of the military or

1030
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,120
the FBI.
They do not always need to be

1031
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,920
actual Men in Black suits and
could easily be mistaken for

1032
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,880
members of the mysterious MIB.
No, to me the very best

1033
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,480
possibility of who or what the
Men in Black are is outlined in

1034
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,480
Nick reference book The Real Men
in Black, where he describes one

1035
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,280
particular paranormal
investigators thoughts and

1036
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,560
personal beliefs on the subject
by the name of Joshua P Warren.

1037
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:40,080
In short, Warren believes that
they are time travelers and has

1038
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,760
met and have many details to
back up this theory.

1039
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,480
He begins by theorizing that
there may be humans or another

1040
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,840
race of hybrid beings that has
discovered the secrets of time

1041
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,360
travel thousands of years in the
future, and with that ability

1042
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,520
comes the need to travel through
time.

1043
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,800
Of course, maybe the future is
very harsh and there could be a

1044
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,160
potential flaw in the
reproduction system of future

1045
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,800
humans.
In order to ensure their own

1046
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,240
futures, they need to come back
in time and gather eggs and

1047
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:14,080
sperm from humans in our general
time, hence the need for the

1048
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:18,040
discovery of time travel.
In order to do so, there has to

1049
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,480
be special vehicles produced
that allow you to jump into the

1050
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,480
5th dimension and pop back out
anywhere along the timeline that

1051
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,400
you want to go.
These crafts come in various

1052
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,160
sizes, shapes and materials.
Some are made of metallic type

1053
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,440
substance and some are not made
from a physical material at all

1054
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,760
and are rather built of energy
that looks very much like a ball

1055
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,480
of light.
Well, let's say that this time

1056
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:44,200
travel is actively monitored by
a future agency that ensures the

1057
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,360
safety of the timeline.
Meaning that if someone happens

1058
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,360
to witness a flying craft in the
sky, maybe a ball of light

1059
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,440
outside their bedroom window, or
even if someone was taken out

1060
01:04:54,440 --> 01:05:00,760
their bed at oh, or even if
someone was taken out of their

1061
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,920
bed at night and brought aboard
an alien spacecraft.

1062
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:06,360
And that person could
potentially set the timeline

1063
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:10,640
down a different path by
releasing the information about

1064
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,840
their incidents.
This agency could travel through

1065
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,680
time and stop them from doing
so.

1066
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:19,520
They can't hurt anybody, as that
will alter the timeline, but

1067
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,880
they need to make sure that
certain pieces of information

1068
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,080
about this person's experience
doesn't leak.

1069
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,800
They have all of the victim
secrets since they can simply

1070
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,440
travel through time and monitor
anybody at any moment in their

1071
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,680
lives.
So they use those to scare

1072
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,960
experiencers into keeping their
secrets themselves.

1073
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,200
So there is a problem, it looked
nothing like us.

1074
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,080
Now maybe their skin is a bright
purple so they slap on some

1075
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,960
ultra white skin and the only
outfit that would be accepted in

1076
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,600
any time between the years of 19
of the 1900s and 2000s, an all

1077
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,920
black business types suit.
They wear a hat and glasses to

1078
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,520
cover up either imperfections in
their costume or to protect

1079
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,680
themselves from the different
different strength of UV rays

1080
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:07,120
our time sun gives off.
Communication in their time is

1081
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,880
mostly done by way of computer
or whatever technology they have

1082
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,960
at the time and spoken word has
fallen by the wayside.

1083
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,320
So the practice and talking with
people is awkward and weird.

1084
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:22,280
In fact, if they were to be on a
monitoring mission, they may not

1085
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,000
know how to properly hide the
fact that they are watching you

1086
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,120
due to their entire time being
socially awkward.

1087
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,840
Now I will admit that some of
what I just said is my own

1088
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:37,040
inputs and details by but the
frame of what I described was

1089
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:41,520
laid by Joshua P Warren and I
love this theory as it literally

1090
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,040
can cover up any flaws that
anybody has found in any other

1091
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,200
theory we discussed.
And the best thing about it is

1092
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:53,280
that the scenario that I laid
out can be completely wrong, and

1093
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,000
this could all be happening for
another reason.

1094
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,480
And yet the time traveller
theory seems to be able to still

1095
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,720
do what it needs to to even with
different background stories

1096
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:14,200
applied all right.
I do like the idea of vampires

1097
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,840
being more like interdimensional
psychic vampires than actual

1098
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,680
vampires.
I had a.

1099
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,120
Feeling he was going that way,
that.

1100
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,920
Definitely fits my my vibe, you
know, like that.

1101
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,000
Yeah, you're vibing.
See.

1102
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,320
It well, you know, it makes
sense and Jake would probably

1103
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,360
agree to you know, like demonic
entities, the jinn, whatever,

1104
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,560
right?
Like this is how they would in

1105
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,320
my opinion, this is one of the
ways that they would fuck with

1106
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,320
you, right?
Some of these demonic entities

1107
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,760
probably do feed off of negative
energy, different energies,

1108
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,120
right, by different energies for
different entities.

1109
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:54,600
So some of them that's that's
their shit.

1110
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,040
They just like to scare you and
boom.

1111
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,720
Now I feel like CJ would have
some really good input on this

1112
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,680
kind of stuff because he's into
the metaphysical and everything,

1113
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,600
and he probably could explain a
lot of this to me.

1114
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:13,360
I I'm personally not very much
into the idea of something

1115
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,600
getting its nourishment or
energy or whatever from fear.

1116
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:19,840
I just don't see.
That as a possibility, but I do

1117
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,120
find it interesting.
It's just it's energy, right?

1118
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:26,960
Any energy could is energy,
right?

1119
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,200
Yes.
Yes, energy is energy.

1120
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,920
Is energy right?
There's a Comrade Harris court

1121
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,960
for you here.
Energy.

1122
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:41,840
Is energy and energy is energy.
So if we had some energy, it

1123
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,640
would then be energy.
Right.

1124
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:47,240
But you get what I mean.
Like, I don't know, maybe you

1125
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,800
don't vibe with that, but I'm
one of these hippies, man.

1126
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,479
I I feel like the whole universe
is just nothing but frequencies

1127
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,520
and energies, and there's
probably all types of parasitic

1128
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:01,040
entities that feed off of every
type of frequency that you can

1129
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:07,520
imagine.
I do agree with energies and

1130
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,840
frequencies being a big building
block of of the of reality.

1131
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:17,560
I personally just don't know.
Have you ever seen that?

1132
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,600
I forget his name and there's
probably more than one guy, but

1133
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,760
he he did the whole thing with
water crystals, freezing water

1134
01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:30,439
and he would like speak to the
water pleasantly or he would

1135
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:31,800
like.
Yeah, and they would.

1136
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,040
They'd form different shapes.
Right, some of and then same

1137
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,319
with the plants, right.
They would grow the plants and

1138
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:38,720
they would talk pleasantly to
the plants.

1139
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,040
They would grow and bloom great.
And the ones that they were like

1140
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:44,319
shitty to where like they died
and didn't grow.

1141
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,399
It's the same concept right
there, like feeding energy to to

1142
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:51,920
these, I don't know what the
cells or something, I'm not

1143
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:57,320
really sure, but on some fractal
level that plant in those water

1144
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,360
crystals are absorbing the
positive and the negative energy

1145
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,080
that you're putting forth.
I should get a cactus.

1146
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:11,280
And yell at it every day.
But you know, this is in there's

1147
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,680
theories that talk about like
why cathedrals and stuff back in

1148
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:16,440
the day were built the way they
were, right?

1149
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:17,560
I think we talked about this
with.

1150
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,840
Matt.
Yeah, the red, the resonation of

1151
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,800
all the stuff and then the
energies of all the people like

1152
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,280
in there praying and like all
the positive energies, right?

1153
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:31,040
You just walk into some of those
buildings and you can feel that

1154
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,480
energy, right, right.
You can, you can don't have to

1155
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:35,840
be religious.
I should I'll walk into a a

1156
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,160
freaking church or a mega
church, especially right you

1157
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,280
just you get a vibe because so
many people go there and they

1158
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,600
put so much positive energy into
this into this location.

1159
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:55,160
What do you think, Jake?
Couple things with this theory

1160
01:10:55,160 --> 01:11:01,840
of like they're coming back in
time to get eggs and sperm, man,

1161
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,960
if they're that advanced, we're
already being hatched out of

1162
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,920
eggs.
Like, you know, it's just

1163
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:12,400
better, right?
Like I think incubation rate for

1164
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:16,160
like a freaking swallow is like
12 days.

1165
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,480
Like that's it, right?
We're just hatching out eggs at

1166
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:23,840
this point.
And then also this whole, this

1167
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:28,320
whole wearing a hat and glasses
to cover up either

1168
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,000
imperfections, their costume or
to protect themselves from the

1169
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,040
different strengths of the UV
rays of our, of our time.

1170
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:40,640
Sun gives off.
We, we know that that the

1171
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,160
universe is expanding and one
day we're going to get the heat

1172
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,640
death of the universe and all
that sort of stuff, right?

1173
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:55,480
But don't do Suns grow in
strength and then explode?

1174
01:11:55,480 --> 01:11:58,440
Or do they weaken and then
explode?

1175
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:05,280
They they grow in size and the
way that they do that is they

1176
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,640
start off with the most
elementary elements.

1177
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,000
You know, think of the periodic
periodic table, right?

1178
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,160
They burn through all the I'm
going to fuck this up.

1179
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,520
I haven't looked at the periodic
table in a while, but they burn

1180
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,880
through all the the hydrogen and
then they burn through all the

1181
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,200
helium and then they burn.
It depends on what stage of

1182
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,680
burning they're at and what
materials they're burning and

1183
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:32,040
then they they grow depending.
It also depends on on what kind

1184
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:37,240
of star you have.
Like you know, red dwarves or

1185
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,160
red giants, white dwarves,
There's a bunch of different

1186
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:44,240
kinds.
But basically the gist is is

1187
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:48,440
that they expand and then they
collapse on themselves.

1188
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:54,000
And then depending on what type
of star it is, it could either

1189
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,600
go supernova or it could become
a white dwarf, which is just

1190
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,640
basically like like the moon.
I guess I I don't.

1191
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:03,600
Know something along those
lines?

1192
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:09,480
So then technically it it
wouldn't be that because they

1193
01:13:09,480 --> 01:13:12,600
would come to our time frame and
you should be like, oh, what a

1194
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,360
relief.
The sun isn't boiling our skin

1195
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,480
off.
Oh man, this is nice.

1196
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,240
Yeah, but you also got to think
that in order for that to happen

1197
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:27,400
by scientific standards, OK, Now
keep that in mind by modern

1198
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,160
scientific standards.
I ain't no science.

1199
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:31,040
They're talking millions of
years.

1200
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,400
Yeah, the Men in Black don't
need to be from millions of

1201
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,240
years.
They only need to be hundreds or

1202
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,520
thousands of years.
Sure, but I mean like, you know,

1203
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,920
even at 1000 years their son
would be more intense than our

1204
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:50,320
son, so it wouldn't be that.
It depends, right?

1205
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,640
I mean it.
You've been, you've been in San

1206
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,640
Francisco, been to China, Japan,
the smog.

1207
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:00,400
Right.
Definitely San Francisco, Yeah.

1208
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:06,920
So UV strength during very
smoggy gross days is low, right?

1209
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,960
So let's say pollution continues
to happen.

1210
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:15,760
We burn lithium mines, right?
No, no, no, that's ridiculous

1211
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,240
because in 1000 years it's not
going to be that.

1212
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:19,960
It's everything's going to be
green and we're going to be

1213
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,320
hatchet of eggs.
I don't know.

1214
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,440
Yeah, but however, we don't know
how far in the future time

1215
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:29,080
travel gets invented, right?
Time travel could get invented

1216
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,760
in 10 years from now or 100
years from now.

1217
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,440
Doesn't have to be 1000.
It hasn't be that far out right,

1218
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:35,960
Right.
It could be pretty soon,

1219
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,920
especially with like the way
that AI and stuff is coming out,

1220
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:40,200
AI could figure that out
They're.

1221
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:44,120
Talking about these people that
are so different, but they're

1222
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,000
only wearing, the only thing
that kind of roots them in our

1223
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,720
time frame is their clothing.
You think about means there's a

1224
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,560
tremendous amount of time for
that.

1225
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,720
No evolution.
Not at all bro.

1226
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,600
We're already using CRISPR
technology to genetically alter

1227
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,960
babies, dude.
Like give it a couple

1228
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:05,360
generations and all human beings
will probably be genetically

1229
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:11,080
modified.
And, and, and, and, and you

1230
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:14,400
don't even right now they're
doing that like, like there's a

1231
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:16,400
process, right?
There's a whole process to make

1232
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,080
this happen.
They're already putting like

1233
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,920
mRNA and, and this type of stuff
in food.

1234
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,240
So it's only a matter of time
before they're putting CRISPR

1235
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,040
technology and gene editing
technology in food.

1236
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:29,480
There's going to come a day,
maybe it's a hundred or two

1237
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:31,320
years from now or 50 years from
now, I don't know.

1238
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,640
They're going to come out and
say some shit.

1239
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,640
It's going to be like, oh, for
the sake of humanity or whatever

1240
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,600
the case might be, all of us
have to mutate ourselves this

1241
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,480
way.
And we'll do that by putting it

1242
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:43,240
in all the corn.
And you don't have to worry

1243
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:45,600
about anything.
It'll just be in the corn and

1244
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:52,080
your kids will come out mutated
for the greater good for

1245
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:53,880
grandma.
Don't be kids on the cob.

1246
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:58,640
All I want, right is I want my
hands and my arms and like an

1247
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,840
alien, I want a second set of
hands and arms down here that

1248
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,440
can like reach out and grab
stuff while I'm out here doing

1249
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:06,280
this thing.
That's all.

1250
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,240
The only the only point of my
rant is just that it does.

1251
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,480
It's not necessarily going to
take another X 1000 years for us

1252
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:16,920
to evolve due to whatever the
environment right?

1253
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,400
Like with the way technology is
moving, it might only take 50 to

1254
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:23,440
100 years before we start seeing
like drastic changes in in human

1255
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:28,920
biology.
So I I looked up the the stars

1256
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,360
order of burning elements
because I was curious.

1257
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:34,280
I was right.
It's hydrogen.

1258
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,920
Then helium followed
progressively, followed by

1259
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,920
progressively heavier elements
like carbon, oxygen, neon and

1260
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:45,240
silicon, depending on the stars
masked, with the final stage

1261
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:49,720
often involving iron burning in
very massive stars before they

1262
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:54,040
explode a supernova.
Where's the iron coming from?

1263
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,960
It comes down from the breakdown
of elements.

1264
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,920
The elements combined in the
compounds and they become a

1265
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:05,760
heavy metals.
Neat.

1266
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:08,960
And you also got to think too
that the the iron that is

1267
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:13,520
burning isn't the iron like the
stuff that we use, it's molten,

1268
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,960
so.
Yeah, and you've got to.

1269
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,160
Play Minecraft.
That's where iron comes from.

1270
01:17:21,480 --> 01:17:24,200
For those who died said it would
be cool to think of the men in

1271
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,800
black as dimension police.
Well, that's sort of, that's

1272
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,880
sort of what what I was just
talking about there.

1273
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:40,320
It's if you remove the concept
of time travel and you just keep

1274
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:46,280
the dimensional police idea,
pretty much what I just said.

1275
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:49,800
I think it's, I think it's
plausible.

1276
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,400
I think it's possible.
I personally like the idea of of

1277
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,000
time travel.
I think it's it's neat.

1278
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,200
Well, of course it's neat.
It's just impossible, that's

1279
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:02,640
all.
I don't know.

1280
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:05,440
No, we don't know that.
We don't know that.

1281
01:18:05,440 --> 01:18:06,400
I don't know.
Do my hands.

1282
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,400
If you don't chew Big Red, then
fuck you.

1283
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:18,120
All right, guys.
Well, that was Part 2 of MIV.

1284
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:20,600
Anybody in the chat have
anything else to say?

1285
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:25,600
Say it now.
Or hold your peace until the

1286
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:29,000
next time we come here on
Sunday.

1287
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,040
Yeah, we have a guest next.
Sunday.

1288
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:40,160
Yeah, we have the ladies from
the Elephant in the Room podcast

1289
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:43,960
coming over.
Nice, yeah.

1290
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,400
I put a link to our website in
the chat for any you nerds in

1291
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:49,600
the chat they want to click on
it.

1292
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,760
That and if you don't follow us
already here on Twitch, please

1293
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:55,680
hit the follow button.
Great.

1294
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,160
Yeah, hit follow.
We're trying to hit that

1295
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,160
affiliate status.
We need the follows.

1296
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:01,720
I think everybody that's in here
might be following already, but

1297
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:05,440
if you're not.
Then you better do it.

1298
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,520
But now and then click on that
website link.

1299
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,920
I clicked on the website link.
Yeah, I got to update that

1300
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,480
website.
It's all old and stuff.

1301
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,240
I don't know, just modernize it.
All right.

1302
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:21,000
Well, what do you guys think
today?

1303
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,440
It's better than yesterday.
Yesterday was pretty hokey.

1304
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,280
Oh, Ken's are brought up a good
point.

1305
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,600
Leave a voicemail.
So if you go to the website,

1306
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:32,720
Jake, are you on the website
right now?

1307
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,840
Yep.
Can you explain to the good

1308
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,480
people how to leave a voicemail?
Yeah.

1309
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:41,960
So when you get to the.
Home you can screen share it.

1310
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:45,720
Oh yeah, screen Share it here.
I'll hang.

1311
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:47,200
I can do that.
I can do it.

1312
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,520
No, I'll do it.
Oh, you do it then?

1313
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,160
Yeah.
Anyways, when when you do leave

1314
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,160
a voicemail, leave us an
introduction that we could play

1315
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:57,640
before the episode.
We used to do this a while back.

1316
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,480
You see this and my mouse is
circling it.

1317
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:04,120
Oh yeah, there.
It is this thing, if you go to

1318
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,080
the home page, doesn't matter
how far down you Scroll down.

1319
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,400
This is right here.
If you click on it, it'll give

1320
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,720
you an option to leave a
voicemail and you just start

1321
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:16,360
recording and then you can send
it and you can give your name or

1322
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:20,400
be anonymous if you'd like.
But like we, we put this out in

1323
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:24,320
the beginning with all of our
listeners that, you know, say

1324
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,040
you have a business that you
want to promote to the few 1000

1325
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,120
people that listen to us
freaking come on here and say,

1326
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,640
Hey, this is Jake from move in a
rabbit hole.

1327
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,640
Love your guys's stuff, Keep it
the good work, whatever, right?

1328
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,440
And we'll put it on an episode.
We'll just we'll throw it out

1329
01:20:40,440 --> 01:20:42,000
there.
So you could be like, Hey, this

1330
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:51,320
is Sean from Sean's concrete in,
you know, Omaha, NE Great

1331
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,640
hearing your, your stuff, you
know, and we'll throw it out

1332
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:54,640
there.
You know, if you want to give a

1333
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:56,920
little blurb about what you do
or whatever it is, we'll put it

1334
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,880
on the next episode and we'll
recycle it.

1335
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:02,240
And every few, few episodes
we'll play that.

1336
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,520
If we get enough of them, we'll
just keep cycling them through.

1337
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,920
We used to do it a lot, so
that's always an option for you

1338
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:09,880
to do.
Yeah, put on there like, yo,

1339
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,760
this is Frank with Frank's,
Frank's house.

1340
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,920
We're listening to the Infinite
Rabbit.

1341
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:16,400
Frank.
House, Yeah.

1342
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,800
Frank, Frank's Frank House from
Frankfurt, Germany.

1343
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,000
Yeah, man.
Yeah, but like, yeah, we're

1344
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:23,760
listening to the infinite rabbit
hole, right?

1345
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,560
Well, we can make a compilation
of those one day with.

1346
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:31,120
All the throw your website down
free advertisement or if you

1347
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,800
guys just want to do a sweet
intro for us and be like, hey,

1348
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:38,640
this podcast sucks.
That's it, we'll play that too.

1349
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,400
Hey this podcast sucks but keep
listening.

1350
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:45,200
We're talking to you, Digital
Assassin.

1351
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:48,520
Oh yeah.
Said We've even had cryptids

1352
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,120
call in before.
We did.

1353
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:51,720
It's true.
We had.

1354
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,920
Oh, actually I have.
We had we.

1355
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,160
Had a Nightcrawler.
Yeah, he was pissed.

1356
01:21:58,400 --> 01:21:59,920
This is.
This is him, by the way.

1357
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,840
Yep.
It says right here this show

1358
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,160
sucks.
So my mouse is bad.

1359
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:07,960
And I'm also wearing a shirt
that we got in Elmwood.

1360
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,640
Oh yeah, you are.
I also I have that in orange.

1361
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:14,880
Yeah.
You didn't lose or we're doing

1362
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:18,040
butt stuff.
That's right, I put that sticker

1363
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:19,960
on my toolbox at work.
I'm waiting to see when I get

1364
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:20,960
home.
Jar and.

1365
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:26,080
Get thrown into the wolves.
All right.

1366
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:27,440
You guys got anything else to
say?

1367
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,440
Nope.
No, Sir.

1368
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:34,840
Well, thank you everybody.
Thank you to the chat for coming

1369
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,120
in and checking on another live
episode of The Infinite Rabbit

1370
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:38,960
Hole.
We'll see you right back here

1371
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:45,000
next Sunday, October 13th, where
we would be talking to the host

1372
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,040
of the Elephant in the Room
podcast.

1373
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,080
Until next time, travelers,
we'll see you right here in the

1374
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,120
next fork in the path of the
infinite rabbit hole.

1375
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:56,800
Goodbye.
Bye.

1376
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:05,880
Bye.
Hey everybody, thanks for

1377
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,040
checking out the Infinite Rabbit
Hole podcast.

1378
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:10,400
If you're looking for more of
our stuff, head on over to

1379
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,640
infiniterabbithole.com where you
can find links to all the

1380
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:17,040
podcast players that we are
available on and even our video

1381
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:19,120
platforms such as TikTok and
YouTube.

1382
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,000
While you're there, make sure to
check out all the links for our

1383
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:25,280
socials and hit that follow so
you know when all the new stuff

1384
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,400
from our podcast comes out.
And until next time, travelers,

1385
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:32,080
we'll see you right here in the
next fork in the path of the

1386
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,000
Infinite Rabbit hole.
Bye.