152. Portlock and the Nantiinaq Part 2

0:03 Imagine that this line represents the time present 1985 Future Past. Prior to this point in time, somewhere in the past the timeline skewed into this tangent, creating a post with 1985. Alternate to you need Einstein, everyone else. Welcome back to the Infinite Rabbit Hole Podcast. I'm your host, Jeremy, and today we're going back to Portlock, but not without a guide. Before we get to that, let's go ahead and introduce my cohost of the night, Jake.

0:53 What's up, man? Me and Whitney spent all day at a local pumpkin patch thing. It's like 100 acre pumpkin festival. You pick like produce type thing. It was just a blast. We were over there and man, I got home and I was, I was this close to. Passing out. And then my alarm went off to get up and I was like, right? And I saw that you'd sent me the the Zen Caster link and I was like, Yep, that time. So here I am. Yeah, it was. It was a good day. Good stuff, Good stuff. Also, you can come on over and go talk about some killer Sasquatch in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere Alaska. Yeah, yeah, I'm ready for it.

1:37 Me too. Like I said in the last episode, today is our tomorrow. This is after a week for you guys. We get the We get to talk to the man, the man who who wrote the book, who I did most the research off of Larry Beans Baxter. How you doing man? Hello. So welcome to infinite rabbit hole. Thanks guys. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you being here. Let's let's first start off with who is who is Larry? Who's Larry Baxter? Well, unlike Jake, I got a nap today. I I don't know. I've had an interesting life, man. I was born and raised in Kentucky, joined the military in my early 20s, said I don't care where the the Army sends me, as long as it's nowhere cold and straight to Alaska. I went.

2:34 But the joke was on them because I actually liked it. I I, you know, I had no frame of reference for a lot back then. This was before the Internet, boys and girls, if you can imagine such a thing. Well, there was Internet, but not like it is today. And my only frame of reference for Alaska was Northern Exposure And and I remember like getting off the plane and getting in the the cab to go to the post and seeing like a Pizza Hut and you know, like like normal like franchise stores. And I was like, oh, thank God, because I thought I was going to Northern Exposure. And most of the military bases up here have some civilization around them, Anchorage, Fairbanks, something like that.

3:20 So, so I saw that and I was like okay because I I I wasn't sure quite what I was getting into. But it ended up really, I fell in love with it. You know, growing up in rural Kentucky, the the wildness of it didn't really bother me that much. You know, I I do well in small towns. I enjoy small towns. And I got out of the military. I went back home for a spell and and came back. My wife is from Alaska. She was born and raised here and we just as soon as we got out of out of the army, we went back to Kentucky and we were there for a couple years and we're just like we got to go back. Got to Oh yeah. And so we came back up here.

4:02 I'd always been interested in law enforcement. I got a job on Saint Paul Island, which is. If you ever watch The Devil, this catch, it's one of the places where they offload the crab sometime and it's like one of the most remote places on the planet. It's on a little tiny island way out in the Bering Sea, like not too far from Russia. And I did three years out there as a police officer there kind of back then, you know, you had kind of had to do your time. You had to go work for like a rural department or a place out in the Bush as they call it, and they would send you to the Academy, get you certified and then after. Sometime that with that you would go work at a bigger department, a more place on the road system. They call, you know, like a city that's connected to the road that you can drive to.

4:49 So I did three years out on Saint Paul Island and got hired at Homer Police Department and been here ever since. I just retired from there in 2021, and now I write books and go on podcasts, talk about Bigfoot, and occasionally look for Bigfoot. The good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, Speaking of Bigfoot, man, how'd you get into Bigfoot? Well, I've always been interested in it ever since I was growing up in in Kentucky. You know, I've always been a reader. I love to read, read a lot of monster books growing up, and it's always been something I really thought was cool about again, you know?

5:29 Never. I never really. It's it's kind of actually kind of funny how Kentucky is kind of like in the Bigfoot spotlight now. And there's a lot, seems like there's a lot of stuff going on there. Growing up there, I didn't find it to be that at all. It was just, it was just home. There were a few strange tales and and mostly ghost stories, stuff like that. No, no real like cryptids to speak of. And then I got up here to Alaska and you know, my interest in it kind of came and went through the years. I would, I would read a book occasionally every now and then, like Lauren Coleman's book on Bigfoot, stuff like that. And. Up here, I was kind. It kind of finally hit me like, you know, I'm up here, There's Bigfoot up here.

6:09 Like I'm finally in a place where I can look for them, and that's kind of where it took off. I finally started getting out and going to places where I heard there'd been sightings and interactions, and that's kind of how it took off. I started just getting out in the woods and hiking around and looking for for strange things, and sometimes I found them. Yeah, that that Bigfoot true story of of apes in America, Right book. Fantastic book. Love it. Lauren Coleman's I I my my claim to fame is that he answered one of my one of my Dm's one time to to decline. Coming on the show, I was like, you know what?

6:49 That's good enough. I've been to his museum, but he wasn't there. So yeah, I missed him by the the guy working there was like, oh, you just missed Lauren. And I was like well. Who are you? Bye. So the the topic of conversation is portlock. How far exactly are you from portlock? From where I'm sitting right now, I'm about 40 miles away. Whoa, that's nuts. It's. That way. Oh man, And so in your book you outlined 2 expeditions. Has has there been more? Not by me.

7:29 We were actually planning a third. We were going to go and. Oh geez, what year was it, 2021 or 22? And we weren't able to get permission to go back out there. They had granted it to a production company to film a show out there, so. That's that new show that they have coming out, probably. Yeah, well, it's the Alaska killer Bigfoot show. And we we had, you know, we faced a lot, a lot of criticism like you guys should go out there longer, you should take more people, you should do this, you should do that. And finally, we're like, well, let's. Let's do it you know let's we were going to go out there and spend a couple of weeks and actually like camp out and stay on the on the in the town and you know do expedition we were going to try and get up to this lake that's up there that we really want to check out and we were denied the the permission to go back so it didn't happen. Sweetie Jake, you got any questions before we jump into his expeditions?

8:28 Yeah, I mean actually that was actually that was a question that came up yesterday. We're talking about this. And and I was like, well, how I was like so America is absolutely covered with ghost towns, right, with people left for various reasons. And this circumstance could have been the fire, right, could have been the the killer Bigfoot, you know, whatever the combination of the both, right. A lot of times is the resources dried up if they're mining towns, whatever it was. And you'd think that just because they're empty that you can just just go up in there, right? But someone always owns that property and you're always going to get slammed for trespassing. And so the question was like, who did y'all have to ask for permission, and how did that whole thing go about?

9:10 So it's it's native on land. It's owned by the English Bay Corporation, which is a native tribe corporation. And I didn't really have that much. Steven is the one that arranged it and and took care of it all. Steven Major. And he took, from what I understand, it took him a long time to convince them to let him go in. And they kind of gave him like AOK, you've got permission for, you know, you you can do it for X amount of years or whatever. And that time it elapsed, you know, we've done the 2X. It's probably 2 years because we went back and you know, we went twice.

9:50 So then that time had lapsed. So he went back to renew that permission and they declined. And, you know, I don't know the particulars of it. I don't know if he had to give them money or, you know, if he just wrote a letter and they said, yeah, sure, or or what. I know, you know, he was very he he he tell me he had to be very, you know, when he went and asked permission, he basically had to say we're going to be really respectful, you know, we're going to, you know, really. Take care of the land. We're going to leave it, you know, just like we found it and be really respectful. And then, you know, we saw what what, what happened with it with the the, the people that went in there the last time.

10:32 So it's kind of funny how I feel like they were basically the quite the opposite of what we did. Yeah, that was that, the British show, right? No, it was. I'm actually not sure. They actually reached out to me and asked me if I would participate and I kind of got a weird vibe about it and I declined and I'm. I'm kind of glad I did. Yeah, The new show, Yeah, we went. The first time we went out was for independent production that Steven produced, the In Search of the Port Chatham. Harry man. That was 2018. And then we went back in 2019 with the Travel Channel for the Alaska Triangle. Series.

11:17 And I think we're like the second episode of the first season or something. And those guys were pretty cool, you know, We weren't sure. We basically told them like, hey, we're going to go do our thing. We're not going to, like, pretend or fake anything. We're going to do, you know, honest research. We we don't want to, Like, I mean, I understand it's a TV show. Sometimes the camera's not running. Something happens. You have to, you know, reenact things. Like, I get it. That's that's just the nature of the business. I mean it. I do that sometimes when I'm out. You know, filming my own YouTube videos, I'm like, oh man, that would have been great for the camera. Well, let me do it again. You know I'm not lying. I'm just. You know, you just, the camera wasn't on. But again, there's that and then there's like, man, nothing's going on.

11:59 Well, let's say something's going on. You know, let's, let's fake stuff. We're not about that. And that was one of my caveats that I told Steven when we went out there. The first time, especially with me working in law enforcement, I'm like, dude, I'm not going to go out there and like. Pretend that there's Bigfoot all over the place, you know, where we're being like attacked or something like that. And he's like, no, I understand. We're going to do it serious. It's going to be actual like research. And you know, we're we're documenting what's happening to us out there. We're not going to make anything happen. And you're not having someone stand off camera and bang some trees and with sticks and throw. Exactly. And you know, we get criticized for that sometimes. Because I read like the comments and people are like, oh, this is boring, Nothing's happening and stuff does happen. I mean, we heard stuff, we found track, stuff happened. It just, I don't know what the difference is. I guess because we don't, like go into the camera like they're here, you know, they're going to get us, you know, I mean, but I mean, maybe that's the difference. Maybe if we were just a little bit more dramatic about the stuff that did happen, maybe people would be like, this is the greatest thing ever, but but people are like, oh, this is boring, Nothing happens.

13:05 And I'm like we found just as much as any other. Bigfoot show on television that finds or that happens. You know, we were hearing things as soon as we got there and we started walking around. We heard this like thump, thump, thump. And you know, like just it seemed like it was always always just ahead of us. Like it wouldn't let us like get on top of it to see what it was. And what was it? A Bigfoot, a bear or moose? I don't know. That's a problem with Alaska's. There's a lot of big animals up here. But you know, stuff happened and. You know, Mary Mary Beth that was with us, she saw, she said she saw something peek around from behind a tree.

13:45 And, you know, it's important. She was not a Bigfoot person. You know, she wasn't somebody that was really into Bigfoot. And Stephen kind of picked, picked those people to come out there with us because they weren't Bigfoot people, you know, and he didn't want people that were in the community and that were well known. He wanted people that were just interested in the legend of Port Chatham. And you know, she said she saw something peeking around a tree. Well, that's something that a lot of people say they see in regards to Bigfoot. So it's kind of interesting that somebody that wasn't really embedded in the community or really popular, you know, really kept up with Bigfoot behavior, is describing stuff that people see quite a bit with Bigfoot signing. So let's start it off with the first expedition. And the first thing you talk about in your book, which is this little shed that you found a whole bunch of junk around that was a little bit too far away from the shore to be just washed up.

14:44 Can you kind of walk us through that and and what was going through your head like where do where do you think this all this junk came from? Yeah, that's that. The situation is funny because we found it and we're like, oh, that's kind of weird, but it wasn't really that big of a deal. We're like, oh look, there's a sign of civilization. We must be near the town site. And then we kept going. And then later on, actually after we'd gotten back, it kind of struck me as to how weird that was. I was like, wait a minute, how did that stuff get up there? Because this is up way up high on a Cliff face, you know, kind of kind of far back, you know, not not right up on the the edge.

15:26 And there was some like plastic and like modern stuff there, stuff that, you know, the town was abandoned in 1950. There was stuff up there from, you know, not necessarily modern day, but you know, the 80s, nineties, maybe even. And it was just kind of clustered around like a little pile. There's, I think there. Is there a picture of it in the book? I don't remember. I've got a picture of it somewhere. No. Yeah. And I just remember thinking like, oh, well, you know, look at there, even even out here in the middle of nowhere, there's like, litter. And then afterwards I was thinking about it and I'm like, why? Is all that stuff there? It was just kind of like a little collection, just like a little pile of of stuff. And a lot of it was postdated 1950 when the town was abandoned.

16:12 There was like maybe the back of a old stereo or something up there, and to be up there where it would like had to have been carried, You know, there's no way it like washed up there on the tide or anything, not as high up as we were. It's one of those things where after the fact, I got to thinking about it and I was like, man, that's that's kind of weird. Almost. Like maybe maybe it did wash up on the beach, but then somehow it got carried up there. I don't remember seeing any claw marks or teeth marks or anything on it. I know bears will sometimes like to chew on plastic, but just it it really it was one of those things where it didn't really hit me, how strange it was until after the fact. Almost like we stumbled on like a little collection point for.

16:56 For knickknacks or something. So I do want to take that back. Actually on page 115, you do have a picture of it, but just to kind of talk about that a little bit, right. So this area has been abandoned for quite a while. And like you said, this is, I mean, there's a good chance some of this was washed up or, you know, taken in there from someone or something. Basically, it was brought up there by man or beast, right? It's got to be one or the other. Yeah, it didn't wind up there, naturally. Right. I mean, is it in the area where you think a hermit could survive? Well, I mean it's Alaska. It kind of depends on your skill level. I mean you can you can drop people off in a lot of different places and with varying results.

17:39 Someone will be dead within, you know hours, days, you know and some of them could could thrive. I mean, it was. Within walking distance of the shore for sure. I mean, someone could have got there on a boat and been hanging out there and had that stuff there for whatever reason. I guess it was kind of an odd spot to be like a camp or maybe a spot for somebody to build a cabin because it was on top of the bluff there and it wasn't that far back in. So it wasn't super protected from the the elements and the and the weather and the and the wind. But yeah, I don't know. Again, like I said, it didn't hit me exactly how strange what I was looking at was until after the fact. And then I was like, wow, that was a lot of that was a lot of post 1950s stuff just kind of piled up around that that area. And it was just weird.

18:30 I mean, maybe maybe somebody was up there and the 90s or something and was like, I'm going to build a cabin up here and then for whatever reason abandoned it. But even that's a strange. Explanation. I mean, they logged it up there pretty good ways. Well, those that, those that are familiar with Bigfoot, right. We have a pretty healthy amount of people who listen to this that are familiar with Bigfoot especially the act of gifting. Gifting is something that I wouldn't say historically, but a lot of people rely on that as a form of communication or a form of truce between themselves or something along their property or so. Or.

19:11 You know, if they if they know where a family of these big feats could possibly be. And then there's also the stories of them just taking stuff. They are definitely thought to be fans of trinkets. So I I I could imagine a stereo might be a trinket that they'd be interested in. Yeah, I think, I think anything that's not naturally like any metal, plastic, something. That maybe makes a different sound than they're accustomed to. You know, you often hear about them like tapping on metal and stuff like that. I think, I think something that maybe they're just not familiar with, that they can pick up and carry. They might actually just be fascinated with and and take it with them because it's they've never seen it.

19:56 It smells kind of weird and when you when you hit it, it makes a weird sound that I've never heard before. So I'm just going to hang on to this for a little bit till I get bored with it or whatever. So moving on a little bit, let's talk about this this big steaming pile of poopy fan. Oh yeah the I call it the 10-5 turd. We're we're walking along and I can't remember who exact. I don't remember who saw it the first time but it was a big piece of crap and I'm I mean it. I'm I'm not exaggerating. It was about that big around and we had. Yeah, we had the production assistant kid that was with.

20:37 He was the brother of the cameraman. His name was Toad. That was his nickname. My name was. We had beans and Toad on the same expedition. It was what What are the odds, huh? And we had him put his foot up his extra tough boot up next to it. And I took a picture of that with his boot up to it for scale. And he wore a 10 1/2 boot. And so we call it the 10-5 turd because it was about as long as it's boot. And we, you know, we thought we toyed with the idea of of collecting it. I actually had some some Baggies that we could have taken a sample with. But from, you know, my law enforcement career, I I had been told like you can't really get DNA from poop. It's just not.

21:25 Maybe, maybe if you're lucky and you like swab the outside of the poop, maybe you might be able to get some like skin cells or something as it came out. But generally that's not something that happens. So I'm thinking like, okay, well, you know, we're not going to get DNA from it, so what's the point? And later on, again after the fact, I was talking at a conference and a gentleman came up to me. That had been a veterinarian. He goes, you know, if you'd have brought that, that poop in and had a veterinarian look at it, they could tell you what kind of parasites were in it. And I was like, yes, so he said, well, he said if there were parasites in there that were only found in primates, that would really be something.

22:11 And so I was like, well, the next time I find some strange poop, I'm going to pick it up. And I did, but not at Port Chatham. But that was, that was a lesson, you know, I I did not know that. So. Poop is not so good for DNA, but it wouldn't hurt to have it examined for parasites. If you could find something that is only found in primates, then you know you're either looking at human poop or a North American undiscovered primate poop. That would have been very interesting And to have a, you know, a big old log coming out of a human like that, I don't think. That's called Dennis. Yeah, that's a world record. If somebody had passed that, if a man had passed that, I think I would have heard him here at my house.

22:57 So let's talk about during the same expedition you were, You found some tracks on the shore and it was kind of hard to tell exactly what they were because water had obviously rushed up over them with the tide and everything. But then you followed, you followed that area into the tree line. You found something really cool. Let's talk about that. Yeah. So I think it was kind of towards the end of the expedition or maybe the second day, I don't, I don't remember we had put in on this little kind of a a rocky soft rock, you know beach and we could see. Indentations, you know, disturbance in the in the, in the rocks there on the beach.

23:40 And we get out and it looked like something had walked down to the beach and then turned around and walked back into the tree line. And you know, I'm following that. I couldn't tell what it was. I couldn't tell if it was animal or human or Bigfoot. I just couldn't tell what it was. I could just see that something had walked around the beach there and I started following it back up into the tree line. Once we got into the tree on a little bit, the ground there is really not good for tracks. It's really soft and mossy and spongy and it's it's kind of funny because you know you can, you know I'm a big guy and I'm like jumping up and down and you can't hear me. You know you could really sneak up on somebody in some in some terrain like that and I'm looking down and I come up on this area where it it looks like a a human footprint kind of pressed into the Moss a little bit and. And I was like, holy.

24:33 And I measured. I think it was about 14 inches or so. I had the other guys, I'm like, come here, come here, look at this. And it was kind of, it was almost like a Rorschach test. It was like some of the guys looked down and were like, holy crap. And other other people were there, like, I don't see it, Where is it? And then kind of like when I pointed out they'd be like, oh, okay, now I see it. So it wasn't a great track. It wasn't pressed far enough into the Moss for that. We could have cast it. But it was a pretty human shaped 14 inch track. I mean I guess it's possible maybe it could have been like a double step bear track. There wasn't enough definition to it to tell, but it kind of, you know that plus the legends around the place and some of the stuff that we'd experienced up at that point, it really kind of put me on edges to where like man, there could be really something to this. This is a pretty impressive looking footprint. Jake.

25:24 I sent you that picture yesterday. Yeah, it was nuts. It reminded me of that one that I I sent you a picture of when I was over in Dinky Creek on the camping trip. We were doing a camping trip and it was all night, just the tree knocks and yelling and the people that in the next campsite over maybe half a mile away because it was kind of like get in there and and take up your spots, really, really wooded area. It was really pretty, but. They were up there blasting their music, screaming and shooting guns and getting all wild. So like that. And then all these crazy tree knocks start happening and then the really loud yells and then everyone up there just shut the heck up. They all turned out their music and they were just like, like, what the heck is that, right?

26:07 And it was just hours of this just going and going and going. I don't think I took a single breath the entire time. That was fun. And then, you know, I talked this big game of whoa, whoa. I'm not scared of nothing. Yeah. No, I was. If I had to go, I'd be filling up my pants. But we we ended up waking up the next morning. All all the adults were all talking about it. It was my my older brother and all of his friends he grew up with. Everyone's all talking about it and unfortunately had a bunch of kids with us. And so everything up there's really dusty. And so it's great for leaving footprints with the kids up there, just running around, kicking all the dirt everywhere and whatever, so you you can't get a clear print of anything except for little little shoes, right? But behind my tent was just this.

26:50 Monster. Bare footprint, right? And not not bear, but bear. Yeah, human footprint, man. Man is big, right? And I I took a picture of it and I waited until we got down into Shaver Lake where we actually had cell phone signal. I sent it to Jeremy. I was like, dude, check this out. And then on the other side of that, in the direction of travel, it was, it had gone through this. Dirt pit where all the kids are kicking up everything, right. So I was like, well, that would have been nice. And then in direction to travel on the other side of that was where the the dust stopped and it was pretty heavy pine needles and stuff. And then just kind of went through there and it was like, well, but there was the only one. And I sent him this, this picture and he was like, holy crap, I was like and I I tell him what was going on and everything like that.

27:32 I was like, it's my first not seeing something but first experience hearing something like that. It was pretty wild. And I was just like, all right, maybe there's something too. All your crazy claims, yeah. I immediately bought him a casting kit and sent it to him. Yeah, yeah. I looked at that picture. He sent me that picture and I was just like, man, that looks just like what I saw, you know? It's it's crazy. It's just like, yeah, I guess it's possible that as a guy was running around barefoot with, you know, 14 or 16 inch feet, like I I knew a kid in high school that had monster feet like that because also 69, right? Like, I was like, but how many people are there, especially in the middle of nowhere, just walking around?

28:14 Not, not many without a ton of hair. All right, but no. There. This is this. Is rehearsal breaks and whatnot. Yeah, this is an awesome picture. I mean, you look at this and yeah, like you said, it could possibly be one of those double prints from bears. But you could, you could tell how the depth gets gets deeper as it gets to right where the hinge of the toes meet, like that really fatty part of the foot, you know? Well, it seems like it's, you know, bears kind of have almost like a like a triangle shaped foot, you know? Yeah, like that. And this looks almost more like a human where the toes are structured, you know, at an angle, right? It's clearly a right foot.

28:59 Yeah, yeah, no, this is nuts. I actually, I use this on the thumbnail for the episode. So if anybody's listening to this right now and they can see the thumbnail of the show or of this episode, it is the picture on the bottom left. Larry outside of TI, use all your pictures for you. I appreciate that. All the pictures. We had some strange like. There was we're walking through and there's just blueberries everywhere, you know? And it was kind of, it was kind of weird how we were walking through this area. And there's these blueberry bushes that have obviously just been massacred by bears. I mean, they're empty blueberry. Maybe there's a blueberry here or there. You know, bear poop all over the place. You know, we certainly found some bear poop, definitely. I mean, you know, no, like that's bear poop, no question about it.

29:50 And all these Berry bushes are just almost pick clean. And then it was kind of weird because it was almost like we went through this invisible barrier and there's just full Berry bushes with no, no, nothing taken off. You know, we actually were walk, we were walking by and you know, eating as we're walking, you know, like right off the the Bush, you know? And that area, there were no bear tracks, no bear poop, the bushes hadn't been touched. And I said later on I was like, man, it's almost like we passed through this invisible barrier where the bears don't go. And there's one of my favorite Bigfoot stories. It's more of an anecdote than anything. It's in Raincoat Sasquatch by Robert Alley.

30:31 If you hadn't read that, you need to check it out. I just ordered it. Where there's a gentleman on a boat and he's staring at a shoreline and he sees. A bear walk out on a huge brown bear walk out on the beach, stop, sniff, turn around, walk back. And then on the other side of the beach, like stage left, you know he sees a Bigfoot walk down the beach. The Bigfoot stops, sniffs the air turns around, walks back. Almost like the bear in the Bigfoot. We're like, Oh no, you know, we're going to avoid each other. And ever since I read that story and then my experience in Port Chatham with the. The invisible barrier where the the berries get eaten over here and not over here. I've always wondered. I've always had the theory that maybe just they just respect each other's territory and they don't really. There's a line they're not going to cross. They're not going to go over there and eat those berries because maybe that's Bigfoot's territory. I don't know.

31:22 It's got to be a pretty, pretty even fight between the two of them. They probably, you know, they probably learned the hard way a couple times. Yeah, I don't think there's a ton of interactions between them that turn violent. I think most of the time they probably just go the other way because it's not worth the expenditure of energy for either party unless they're really hurting for a meal or something. Yeah. So let's talk about this infrared hit. That's pretty interesting, man. So that was not too far from where we found the track. That was the area that Stephen you know Stephen he's he's dramatic he like he like to give these places because we're in Port Chatham but we don't know what the, you know like we'll go to these various places and we're like well what do we call this area over here And Stephen was really good about like we'll call this the valley of death.

32:14 You know so he he for whatever reason I don't even think it was a valley. He liked to call that area of the Valley of death where we found the track and then you know we got the thermal hit, you know, we that he's like, that's a lot of there's stuff going on over there. We'll call that the Valley of Death. So this was in that same area, and we're walking along, and I was walking with the female in the party and she, she stopped and she's like, man, I feel like we're being watched. And I was like, yeah, I kind of feel a little weird too, because the whole time I'm there, like I've got a pretty good vibe going on. Like it's creepy and it's, it's spooky. It's kind of like, you know, Jurassic Park. But I was never like.

32:56 Oh, I'm scared. You know, like I I never really got creeped out too bad. Just it was just like walking through, you know normal dark forest, you know? And so I pull out my thermal. I had a a fleer scout, which is like the cheap at the time it was like the cheapest thermal you could buy and it's supposed to have a range of like 100 yards. And I can assure you it does not. And I'm scanning this tree line. And I see I had black, you know, I like black as hot. I know some people go the opposite way and they want red hot or red hot or white hot. But I I like black hot.

33:37 And I'm scanning and I see this figure just in inside the tree line kind of doing this. It's raising its arms up and down and it looks of the, you know, it's a black silhouette. That's all I can see of it. And it looks. Swear to God, it looks like Donkey Kong, the video game character. And you know, it it it's what they call it, the curse of Bigfoot. You know, like, we're there. We we were there because of the stories about Bigfoot. Like, we're there to do a documentary called In Search of the Porch. I don't marry a man. We're looking for Bigfoot. I look through my thermal scope. I see something that looks like a gorilla, and what do I do? I go.

34:25 Do you see that? And hand the thermal scope off to somebody else? And I think I handed it to Toad. And you know, he was a younger kid. He was like in his early 20s, I think at this time or maybe not even. And I'm like, look over there, what do you see? And he looks through the thermal unit and he goes, it looks like a dude and I'm like, right? And I can't see anything with my naked eye. I just. It's kind of. It's kind of getting late in the evening. I think it was filmed about 6:30 PM, something like that. I think the time stamps on the the video. And of course at this time, you know the toad still has my thermal. I think maybe he passes it to read or or somebody else. I I don't remember.

35:09 And then finally it makes its way back to me. Well, then by that time I'm like maybe, just maybe I should hit record and document this. So I put it back up to my eye. It's still there, but it's it's not as defined. It's like it's it's moving back, you know, it's like kind of receding into the tree line. So I hit record, I film, I don't know, 1015 seconds of it. You can't really make out arms or or or legs or head anymore, but you can't kind of see like okay. It looks like maybe a torso sitting on some legs. It does kind of maybe like move to one side and the the ground, you know, it's not like where I could just start like. Walking towards it, I had to stop looking through the thermal and walk and and that's what we did. We started walking towards it.

36:00 You know, it was almost like one of those Ghostbusters, you know, like get her, you know, okay, there it is. What do we do? So we start walking towards it and I had to to look away so I wouldn't fall or trip over like a branch or so. You saw the terrain, you know that we're walking through there and. I I eventually, you know, I would look back to try and see it again and as soon as we started moving towards it, it disappeared. And I don't mean disappeared like poof. I mean just I looked away stepped over some debris looked back could not find it and that was that's the the story of the Port Chatham thermal footage.

36:43 You know, unfortunately if I I say to this day if I hit record as soon as I saw it. It would probably be the best thermal footage probably ever recorded. But you know, it's the curse of Bigfoot. You know, I guess if if we if everybody that had a camera or you know, a thermal hit record when they were supposed to, this would have been over a long time ago. So all I got was a blobsquatch. And you know, I, I know a lot of people are like, oh, well, you know, sure that's what happened. I mean, you know, I'm just telling you what happened, man. I don't you know that's that's what happened. I get it all the time man. I had a the the whole reason why I'm into all this is because when I was nine years old I saw something in the woods that that you know when I was nine that had zero fucking clue what it was.

37:28 Turns out the the best way to define it is a Bigfoot. It wasn't as big as like what they explain you know now as like these 10 foot behemoths. You know, I think this was probably like 5 or 6 feet tall. But again, I was, I was 9. So my, I can't tell you exactly, but yeah, I I used to get it all the time. I still get it, still get it sometimes. But you know, yeah. It it is full of crap. Every day you're full of crap. You're annoying. You can't remember that far back. I I do. I do, man. I do. And and The funny thing is, is we were talking about it yesterday during the recording is that that story about the moose that that's very similar to what I saw like in real life, but I saw it with the deer. So I I purposely included that in the episode yesterday because because of my story.

38:19 But enough about me, right as you're wrapping up this first expedition into the port Chatham port lock area, you you're going to retrieve your cameras from Death Valley and you get a call over the radio from Steven. Let's talk about that. Yeah, Steven, we actually separated a little bit and it was in the. That area where I got the thermal hit the day before, not not that exact area but I mean close enough you know within like a few like a minute or two walking distance and I was walking toward the camera and Steven comes over the radio was like man I swear I just saw something walk between 2 trees and so we start heading towards Steven. I I didn't kind of, I didn't realize it at the time but basically the direction we were walking was the direction that the thing he saw was walking.

39:11 So like. We could have potentially walked into it. We didn't, but we didn't know it. You know, it's one of those things where we were walking, right. You know, like it would have been great. I guess hopefully if it, you know, didn't try and kill us, it would have been great. But yeah, he said he saw something. It was, he said described it as it was tall. It was white like a I don't know if he meant white like albino or white like, you know, how rabbits turn white in the winter time. And he said it had like a. Almost like a a Mohawk, but I mean he just saw it for like 1 Mississippi is it like went in between 2 trees, you know and like I said, we were walking in the direction the same direction it was, it was coming in and we didn't we didn't see it, we didn't hear anything.

40:00 Of course this isn't terrain where you're just like walking along like La La La La la. You're stepping over trees, you're walking around trees, You're ducking under branches. You know, you're stepping in holes and having to like, oh, you know, like step out. It's it's very unforgiving terrain. It's not like you're just out for a stroll, you know, down a trail. There's no trails. You're just. This isn't Kentucky. Yeah, you're getting by the best you can. A lot of crawling sometimes you got to crawl under trees, You got to crawl over trees. And you know, anything that was coming toward us would have easily hurt us before it saw us and had time to hide or go in a different direction. So I'm a little jealous it's even saw something that I didn't.

40:48 But you know, like I said, that's the way it goes. Of course, he didn't get footage of what he saw either. So, you know, it's how it goes, which I don't think, I'm not even sure if Steven had a camera. I think he had a GoPro on him, but I don't think it was on at the time. And yeah, that was kind of like that. That was it. That kind of culminated the the expedition where we're like we're running out of time. Steven was paying for the boat. I think it was like a couple of grand every night we were there and that's and that's, you know, that's part of the the challenge. You know, I'm here, I'm 40 miles away from Port Chatham for me to get, I don't own a boat. So for me to get there, I could probably fly to Hawaii and back, and a couple of times for what it would cost for me to get a decent, a decent boat out there that could carry all my stuff and would be willing to Take Me Out there and wait for me.

41:38 Well, you just wait until this show gets really, really big. We'll pay for it. Don't worry about it. Yeah, give. US 10 years. And. 10 years we'll do it. So when I when I heard that right though the the Mohawk thing, the first thing I thought about was a sagittal crust and I was I was like HM. I wonder if he if he did see something because there are some reports of Sasquatch being seen white. No telling whether or not it's due to the age of it or if they just naturally come white in some cases. Well, I I do have a little postscript of that. So there there's two villages not not close to port near Port Chatham, Nanwalek and Port Graham.

42:21 And after this happened, after our expedition, I started talking to some of the people over there in the villages. And I did hear that there had been a white Bigfoot or Nantanoc as they call it, a white Nantanoc scene near Nan Wallach. So yeah. That's insane. That's crazy man. Did you it? It scares the shit out of me just thinking about me being a nine year 9 year old kid as close as I was the one. But I mean even as a full grown adult if I'm if I'm seeing one and I just just. Barely see it just a little bit, you know? And it's one of the monsters that are said to be in the Northwest, you know, I don't know. Just terrifying, Absolutely.

43:13 That's why he wants to go over to. Portland I do, I do. And I mean that's my ultimate goal is I want to see one with my with my own eyes. And I get every once in a while I'll get somebody that'll be like, we'll be careful what you wish for. And you know, you might just get what you want. And usually people that have maybe had like violence or scary encounters. And you know, my response to that is like, you know, people jump out of airplanes for fun, right? Like this is no different. I just wanted, you know, I just want to see it and if it's if it's a little dangerous, it's a little dangerous. Everyone likes their own own drugs, right? Yeah, I'm not going to jump out of a plane, but I'll go in the woods and look for Bigfoot. Hell yeah. I mean, where was I going with that?

43:54 I can't remember. Anyways, so. That pretty much wraps up the first expedition. Did I miss anything there? Let's see. I told you we heard that the thumping. We found the the tracks. Mary Beth saw the the tree peaker. I think. I think that's about it. We, you know, I got the the thermal footage. You know, it was, it was a kind of a whirlwind trip. Again, we were just going in there. We didn't really know what to expect. Again, I wasn't even like when I first found out we were going out there.

44:36 I thought I I think I even brought like a tent and some like camping equipment because I thought we were going to be staying on the on the shore. I didn't realize that Steven was going to have a stay on the boat. So, you know, I was, I was all for it. And I was like, hell yeah, you know, like I'll stay. I'll sleep out here at night, but yeah, it didn't, it didn't work out that way. And we've always said like, well, the next time we go out, we're going to, we're going to do that. We're going to set up a camp and we're going to take enough people to where we can have like a fire guard up and and you know somebody's up all night. Keep an eye on things. So that kind of leads into the second exposition where you brought this crew with you and you originally thought that you were going to be the one sleeping on shore because you kind of were the odd man out.

45:21 You were. You were kind of. A veteran was sleeping outdoors, going through your training and and whatnot in the in the military. So you're going to kind of take one for the team and you end up taking a cot on the boat. But that that expedition was mostly due to the other camera was a little less it. It didn't have as as many encounters or or like really, really big moments, except for one. There was one really good one. It was a little slow and I think it it either it was either because of the amount. I think we because we had more people that production team.

46:03 I think there was at least five of them maybe maybe there was six of them. I don't remember. There was a I mean it's you're walking through the woods with like 6-7 people. You know it's it's going to be it's going to be a circus no matter how quiet you're trying to be. And then there you know there was the okay. We got this shot. Can you do it one more time? You know? And then, you know, we're like walking. It's pouring rain. We're walking down the beach and they just keep having us walk back and forth on the beach, you know? And it was kind of cool because I'm like, oh, I'm filming ATV Show, but at the same time, I'm like, I would much rather be in the woods looking for Bigfoot. This is not doing us any good at all, you know? So that was kind of my first brush with, like, filming ATV Show. And the weather was really, I think, a factor in this. In this expedition, we, well, Steven Adam, Adam Davies, World Explorer, Steven Adam, and I were going to sleep on the shore, all three of us were.

47:00 And then the camera crew was going to sleep on the boat, but the weather actually turned so, so sour that we decided to sleep on the boat as well. Actually, the captain was like, you guys should probably sleep on the boat because it's going to get pretty shitty. And it was kind of weird because we would be on the boat and the weather would would start to clear up and we'd be like, okay. Now we can go ashore and like do our filming or whatever we need to do. And as soon as we start getting our gear on, like like the weather would like turn sour again and we kind of started joking like, oh, something doesn't want us here. You know, like this is, you know, like this is the curse support chat on it, doesn't want it. And it was kind of a joke at first. But then by the time we were there for like 3 or 4 days, by the time we left, I was like there might be something to this guy. So like it was, it was so consistent and repeatable. Literally every time we went to go off the boat, the weather would get considerably worse.

47:52 And I thought I was going to die at one point because we're in this little Zodiac, like a little inflatable boat. Well, you guys are Navy, you know, and we're just trying to get back to the boat. And if my fat ass hadn't been like on the front of that thing, I think it would have went over because it was bad. And I actually told my wife when I got back I was like, I almost die. It was pretty scary, which I'm not a boat guy, I'm not a strong swimmer, definitely wouldn't catch me in the Navy. But so every time we had to get from the boat to the shore was always a little, a little extra terrifying for me. There's people in the Navy that can't swim.

48:34 My dad was in the Navy. He can't swim. He couldn't swim. What'd your dad do? I don't know. He was in Vietnam. He was on a supply ship. I've got a a shadow box upstairs that's got his stuff in it. I'll take a picture of it, send it to you. You can you can tell me what he did? I think he was a Boilermaker or boiler? Boiler. Boiler. Working in the engine room. Yeah, sounds like a machine. Is mate right something? I don't know. I'm not a boat guy. I'm an aviation guy. I ain't no boat donkey. So let's talk about the the big event, man. Let's talk about your your your sighting of something in a tree.

49:18 So this one's a little weird. You know, I'm not really a woo guy. I don't. I don't think that Bigfoot is is can walk through portals or, you know, I think probably they might be able to like camouflage really well. I think a lot of times when people say like, oh, it just disappeared, It should have been, I think probably like, like, well, did you look, did you look up in the tree or maybe it just laid down, you know, like there's there, you know? But this was something I can't really explain. It's probably the 2nd strangest thing that's ever happened to me. We're in that structure, that little building, the little red cabin on the front of the book. And we're in there and we're filming some, like interviews. And they were interviewing.

50:09 I can't remember if it's Adam or Steven, some. It was somebody else's turn. And I'm just kind of sitting towards the back of that little, that little cab in there and it's raining. So we're all in there trying to stay dry. And I'm looking. I'm just watching the tree line and just listening and trying to be quiet so they can film, excuse me. And I saw I was looking up in a kind of a pine tree, a fir tree, and it looked almost kind of like, I'm not sure if it was just like a big drop of water or if it was kind of something like what are they they call like the glimmer man, you know, like a translucent thing. And it just kind of seemed like it dropped down from like 1 branch, kind of like down.

50:52 And it again, it's one of those things where that happened and I'm like, did I? It didn't have, it didn't look like a man. It was just a big, like shape. And it's one of those things where that happened. And I was like, did that just happen? What was that? You know, You know, I didn't trust my lying eyes, you know, I'm like, huh, that's kind of weird. And it was, you know, it had been raining and it wasn't. It wasn't windy, Maybe a little wind, but not enough to, like, move that branch the way I saw it move. And then I'm trying to rationalize it. I'm like, well, maybe there was some water pulled up above that new branch somehow and it all come down at once. And, you know, I'm trying to, like, figure this out. I'm trying to work it out in my brain. And I didn't say anything because I wasn't sure what, if anything, I'd seen.

51:41 I didn't want to interrupt the filming. It was just one of those. Huh. That's the thing. What was that? You know, Was that something? I don't think it was. And eventually it's my time to like, sit down and be interviewed. And I'm sitting there and I'm talking and Steven's turned to sit in the back of the cabin and stare out there. Well, at that point, like, I hear him. I hear him like rack a shotgun and he's like something's fucking out there, guys, I just heard some growling. And so we all like kind of like shuffle up there and we're all like look at it part like the Three Stooges, you know, like all trying to look out this one little window and none of us were like, let's go see what it is. So yeah, that was kind of the big thing and that happened right toward the end, right.

52:21 I think that was kind of one of the last things we did before we left. And again, you know, like we were, you know, we were speculating like, man, maybe something just doesn't want us here. And maybe that was kind of like the, you know, the final straw, like if these guys don't get out of here. Yeah, yeah. We've we've interviewed a few guys that are that are really into the Bigfoot woo side of things for the most notable probably being Carter Bush hard. I I have no problem with the woo side of it, right? Absolutely not. I think that, you know, they do their thing and I'll do mine, but I just, I I find it hard to explain an unknown with another unknown.

53:03 Yeah, I don't think we should completely discount it and just be like Allah, it's BS. No, I agree. I agree. Again, I'm not. I mean, I'm not going to go and and and go full. Like what? It's a portal, you know? Like I got to see a portal before I start saying there's portals. Exactly, Exactly. Yeah. I try not to bring up the topic, but the the Facebook, Bigfoot communities are just. Oh, did you see any red wild red circles out there? It is so cringeworthy. It's anyways it's, I mean, I could go in my backyard, take a picture, post it in one of those and be like, do you see it? And there will be like 1/2 a dozen people. Yep, it's a big one.

53:51 It's right there. They'll put their own. They'll put their own red circles over and everything that's sent it back to you. Yeah. No. Oh, it's carrying a baby. I could take the I could take a picture of the inside of my refrigerator and I'll still get a couple back. So yeah, I, you know, I just kind of stay away from, I'm a member of some groups, but I kind of, I'm just a lurker pretty much anymore. I've had some bad experiences where somebody will post something that's obviously, I mean if you go to Amazon, search Bigfoot costume and then you see like the very first result with the, you know, that Bigfoot with the receding hairline that's like $100 costume. And there are people that post that all the time. And I was just like, look, here's the link to the costume.

54:32 That's a costume. And people were getting mad at me. You know, like, if you don't believe, why are you even here? And I'm like, I don't know about you. I don't like to be lied to. Like, I I don't like it when people pull hoodwinks and shenanigans on me. And I'm trying to help you out. But if that's the way, if you really want to believe, then go ahead. So I I don't. I just really don't. If you somebody who sends me a message or asks me what I think privately, I'll have a discussion with them. But I don't publicly really like get involved and stuff like that anymore. Yeah, I I I appreciate. And I find it entertaining, the woo side of things. I like what they do. You know if you get a solid researcher such as Carter Bush hard he's he's he's really good at what he does and he has some very, very intriguing stories, very, very intriguing, very interesting. And he he tells him very well, I appreciate what he does in with his craft.

55:25 You know, I just, I can't do it myself. And I mean, I feel like several times I found like 1 footprint in a place where I feel like maybe there should be more footprints. And I mean, I don't know what the explanation for that is. Maybe they were maybe there's a flying Bigfoot, maybe it went through a portal, maybe an alien like picked them up. I don't know. But again, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go there until I see something that makes me, until the evidence takes me in that direction, you know? Yep, 100% If. I mean, if I come across a Bigfoot who's mind speaking to me right in the middle of the woods and I'm like clear as day here and this, I could be easily swayed for sure, 100%.

56:12 But it has to happen like you said, yeah. Cool, man. So what else can you tell us about the area and the and the knock knock? Oh, the knock. Well, that's so that's the the local native name for the hairy man or the Bush man or Bigfoot. And they say there's some really cool local native legends and lore surrounding it. The the name Nantonak, they say it doesn't translate well. It says, you know, I've heard it means giant hairy thing. I've heard it means, you know, scary thing or you know, terrible, you know, big terrible thing. I've heard it means, you know Bigfoot. So it doesn't really like they don't. There's not like a literal translation to it, I don't think.

57:05 And I think that's kind of cool. It's kind of ambiguous. It's almost like we don't know what the hell it is either, you know, because you know a lot of people in the Bigfoot community will say, you know, they'll be like, oh, the natives, you know, the natives know, you know what Bigfoot is. They know what Bigfoot is and I always kind of like counter that argument. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't think they really know what it is either, no more than we do. They have more awareness of it. But as far as, like they know what it is and where it came from and what its motivations are, I don't really think they do. And that's not, you know, I'm not saying anything detracting about them or their culture or anything like that. I think it's just the truth. It's they have their theories and legends about what they are but I don't think anybody really knows.

57:51 And they they'll say he comes when the fog comes in. You know they use them a lot in their you know, don't go out in the woods when it's foggy. The Nantanoch will get you. You know the the folklore you see of of, you know, we got to protect our women and children or the Nantanoch's going to get them. I see that with a lot of different native legends and and well just legends worldwide really with you know things in the water or things and of course they're going to get get you. There's another local tribe, they have something called the Nantana, which is very similar and that translates in their language to the ones that steal us. So there you have something very much like Bigfoot that gets accused of abduction, which you hear a lot about with, you know, in the Bigfoot community, people saying that Bigfoot is responsible for the abduction or murder of people missing 411 stuff and stuff like that. That's also in this general area on the Kenai Peninsula. And so you know it's just something out that like I said, I don't again, I don't think they really know what it is anymore than we do, but they just have more awareness of it. It's a part of their culture.

59:04 You know they have their stories that they pass on. But again, you know you in my experiences talking with them, it's it's pretty much 5050. We're they, some of them will believe it or they've had an encounter and then the other ones are just like, Nah, there's no such thing. It's just a boogie man story. Interesting stuff. Yeah. The first thing that pops in my mind, you know when you hear about big Flynn in kidnapping, obviously is Oliver Osman story. Eventually one day we're going to cover that. Jake, we've been talking about it for three years now. I'm sure the, the listeners would love to hear that story. It's absolutely, it's awesome. Oh, where he gets rolled up in his sleeping bag and stuff and yeah. He feeds the Bigfoot bunch of chew. Yeah, it's great.

59:49 Love it. So as I was wrapping up your book, I found that you have a couple others couple other books out there. I I haven't ordered it yet. It's in my list of things to order. But I've I the the Bigfoot or Squash Cop, right? That's something I'm going to go ahead and grab. And then you also have Alaskan cop stories. Right, Yeah. So there's the oh. Cop story one. And there's squash cop. Squash cop. Yeah, love it. I'm definitely grabbing the squash cop one for sure. So that just leads me to believe that you have other things to talk about other than port Chad and port Lock, huh?

1:00:35 I mean, I've been several places looking for Bigfoot. You know, like I said, I've had an interesting life. One of my favorite store again, it's almost I I guess you could say it's a woo story is when I was in Eastern Washington. I've told this story a few times. We were again, I was with Steven and maybe I need to stay away from Steven because it seems like weird, weird shit happens when I'm like hanging out with him. We were in Eastern Washington and we were filming Bigfoot encounters of the Pacific Northwest. And we were in this area that was just, it was Jake. It was almost like the campground you were at where there's like there's knocks and screams.

1:01:16 I mean, there was just stuff going on, like we're unloading the vehicle to set up camp and there's like knocks on the hill in front of the campsite, you know, And it was going, it went on like almost all weekend. And I was kind of we, it was the last night and I was kind of like, man, like I want to see something why, you know? And we walked up this logging Rd. And it was still. It was still. It was like it was getting to be dusk. It wasn't dark. And we walked up the slog in the road, and we turned around. We were walking back. And I was like, you know, I'm going to let them. I'm going to let the group get ahead of me, and I'm going to follow behind by myself a little ways. And because I'm like, if something's following us, you know, maybe I can catch up or it'll catch up to me. Plus, I had to.

1:02:05 I had to take a leak, you know. And I was like, well, you guys go ahead. I'll be. I'll be along here in a couple minutes and at the time I'm thinking like, I just want to see what's going on. I want to see if there's anything following us. I want, you know, I think this will be my best chance if I'm not with a large group to see something. I'm not thinking like this is exactly how like every missing before one story starts. So they I let them get ahead, I wait a couple of minutes, I take a leak on the side of the road and I say Rd. I mean it's it's not in use, it's it's old logging Rd. And I've got my back to the tree line and I'm I've got my thermal, the same thermal I had and porch out and I'm maybe it's the thermal not Steven that's causes all this weird shit down. And I'm Thurman the the other the other side of the road and I'm just chilling and behind me.

1:02:58 I mean, it sounds like it's like at my ear level, probably four or five feet behind me, I hear. Like a whisper. And it was just like four or five syllables, you know, Couldn't make out what it said or if it was even words. Spin around, look, don't see anything, throw up the therm, therm don't see anything. Looking back on it. I I did. I never looked up. So I I don't know. Just pick that for what it's worth they they, they say that one of the biggest mistakes that Bigfoot researchers going on expeditions do that they don't look up. Yeah.

1:03:41 I I never, never looked up, but I I mean it sounded like it was right behind me. So I look firm and I mean it was thick forest, but to from where it sound, I mean, you know the acoustics are weird, but it sounded like it should have been like right there. And I'm, I'm looking and looking and looking and I just have this weird, like, I mean, it was like somebody flipped a switch. And I'm like scared. And I mean, you know, I've been in the military, you know, I've been a police officer, you know, And I'm not bragging. I just, I've been in, I've been in some shit, you know, Like, I've been in situations where I was like, oh, this might be it for beans, you know, like, you know, like I'm not.

1:04:27 I'm used to being in stressful situations, so to just have that happen, just where I was like I'm scared. It was kind of weird it it was like an unnatural fear. And I don't know if that was just my body's reaction. Like I've never been in a situation. I had no frame of reference for this. You know, if it was a guy with a knife or a gun, hey, we can handle that. We know what to do. This is something completely different. So I don't know if it was that or if it was something else. I don't know if I got like zapped or something with infrasound. So not seeing anything, I start heading down the road. I don't run, but I I quickly catch up with the the group and I tell them what happened. And I'm trying to rationalize like, well, you know, I did have my backpack on. Maybe my water bottle.

1:05:10 I had a plastic water bottle back there. Maybe somehow it got jostled and it like released some air or something. I'm trying to like figure out what happened. I'm trying to deduce what the sound was. I heard. So I'm. And I'm like pulling my water bottle out and squeezing it and it's a hair tight. Nothing's coming out of there. I can't figure it out. Still have this irrational fear. We get in a truck, drive back to the campsite. It was our last night there. Still get to the campsite. Still scared. Eventually, everybody but me and Will Omer. Will Omer is a Craftsman 58 on YouTube. He's a he's a solid dude. He's a good researcher. We stay up and Will's like, you know, I feel a little uneasy too. He goes, and I don't know if he was feeding off of me or if he actually, you know, like if he had reasons to be uneasy. But I was like, I feel like something's going to happen tonight.

1:06:01 And he's like, I do too. And we're setting by the fire. We fed the fire all night long, and I just kept having this. I felt like whatever I was as scared of was like, over here on this hill. Like I kept thinking like the Bigfoot, we're going to come over that hill, like the Zulu Nation and just massacres. And finally, you know, we set around the campfire. I had my I had a pistol. Will had a shotgun. And finally, about 3:00 in the morning, we hear this boom. And it wasn't a gunshot. It wasn't a tree knock. It was just this big boom. And Will looks at me and he goes, is it just me or the atmosphere just change? And I'm like, dude, I'm not scared. I mean, it was like somebody flipped a switch and I wasn't scared anymore.

1:06:45 Was it winner? No, it was, it was about this time of year. It was kind of like August Septemberish. You said this was in Washington. Yeah, and like I said, it was like somebody flipped the switch. I wasn't scared anymore. I was like, huh, Well, I guess I'll go to bed now and get some sleep because I had to drive everybody out of there the next day and I went and got my tent, went to sleep. But that's the strangest thing I think it's ever happened. That was #1 #2 was the thing on Port Chatham with the in the tree. But that was the number one weirdest, like most unexplainable things that wrapped to me. And I don't know if it was Bigfoot related. I don't know if it was my mind playing tricks on me. I don't know what it was, but it was freaky as hell. Well, the zapping phenomenon, that is something that gets reported quite a bit, especially within the Wu community. I do know a couple flesh and blooders that that, you know, will say that they can ZAP.

1:07:36 And I mean that that's, you know, psychic phenomenon right there. Well, tigers and and elephants can use them for sound, yeah? It's not, it's not beyond, you know, it's not woo. I mean, it is woo, but it's not woo. It's it's a actual, actual thing, right? It's just outside of our our abilities to to to recognize and and properly translate it, you know, into useful information. And you know, there's mountain lions there too. I don't know if mountain lions can use it or not, but if tigers can, maybe mountain lions can. Good possibility. And we had seen some Mountain Lion tracks earlier. And our trek up that hill, actually, it was kind of weird. We saw tracks of every like, we saw moose tracks, elk tracks, bear tracks, deer tracks, Turkey tracks. I know I'm leaving something out. Like, we literally saw every animal that lived in those woods.

1:08:27 We saw their tracks on that road. And I remember we found the Mountain Lion tracks and I'm like, what are those? And Will's like, that's Mountain Lion. And I remember thinking like, oh, I don't know how to deal with mountain lions, like, who's some bear I'm good with, but I don't know anything about mountain lions. That's a little weird cake. Cats are scary, man. Yeah. Jake, you got anything? Man, you were exploring in like a hunting guide's dream. All those cracks in one spot, it's like, let's go. Yeah, it was. It was crazy because we were all and they were all going in One Direction. They were. So we walk up to this Logging Rd. was kind of like up a hill. And all those tracks were going down the hill. That was kind of weird. We're like, was there like some kind of mass migration or something chasing everything down this hill? Here's your sign that.

1:09:14 Was probably. That was probably a good indication that we should have turned around. I'm glad you didn't. You probably had that experience because you didn't. Maybe, Yeah. I don't know. I've been back to that area, not. That exact same area but the same general like camp camping area and they've, they've logged it, they've started logging it. So it's just it's just not the same. And actually, you know, because I live in Alaska, there's plenty of room up here. You know, I'm not one of those guys. It's like we have to, you know, we have to protect the Bigfoot before they're all gone because they've got plenty of room up here. But being down there and seeing that it was kind of like, oh, this is not good.

1:09:55 Like if they're in there, they're. Going somewhere else now or they're going to die like that was kind of, kind of, kind of made me a little sad. All that area that we had been researching in for that documentary is is gone now. It's all been logged. And I didn't last time I was there and I wanted to go back there because I wanted and I wanted to spend the night there by myself because I wanted to kind of like face my fears because I've never really been scared like that before. And I was like, I got to go back and I got to spend the night by myself. And I did it and and it was fine. Nothing happened. Although one of the nights while I was out there I did hear some wolves off in the distance but nothing squashy.

1:10:37 But again, they they come in and start logging. So they were probably long gone by then, yeah? That's funny that you mentioned the the missing 411. It's like, so yeah, I saw Larry back there taking a leak and now it's just his jacket. He's gone. He just gets snatched, just taken in. So some of those cases are so weird because, Oh yeah, you just hear about, like, Oh yeah, he's right there. And then you turn around. He's gone. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's crazy, man. Great stuff. Yeah. Jeremy as it it's often the case. Jeremy read the book. He set the whole thing up right. He didn't actually allow me to know what the topic was because he wanted to surprise me with it yesterday, right?

1:11:22 And get my opinions on it and then come over here and pretty much be the the bystander, the layman in this conversation, right. Just being reactionary and stuff. And as questions come up, but man, I'm going to have to snatch up your book and read it too, because I'm, I'm really like, this is cool, This is really cool. I can see why Jeremy is so hyped up and he wants to go do it too if if we get the opportunity. I I wanted to commend you on your on your comment you made about how Port Chatham doesn't fit the. Typical ghost town stereotype, you know, usually you see like a town built up around a resource, they deplete the resource and then the town's abandoned port. Chatham definitely doesn't fit that mold. You know the the logging, the trees are still there, they could still be logging, the fish were still there, they could still be fishing.

1:12:12 So I think that's one of the things that kind of. Maybe adds to the mystique of the area is because it just doesn't fit the typical ghost town mold. And then of course, you know, you get people that you know, they find out like, well, maybe you know the story wasn't quite like it. You know, there's this Bigfoot Massacre theory going on that the Bigfoot just murdered tons of people in the town. And once people find out that's not necessarily the the truth, they're like, oh, well, then it's bullshit, You know, it's that, you know, we've reached a point in our society where it has to be this way or it has to be this way. It can't be a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You know, like maybe both sides have some good points and you know, people find out like, oh what there was no, you know, there wasn't like 10s of, of.

1:12:57 You know, hundreds of people murdered in this town. Well then there's no Bigfoot. That's bullshit. You know, all it takes is, you know, a couple of sightings and we certainly got those. You know, Bigfoot doesn't necessarily have to be a a rampaging beast, although if there was a perfect storm for Bigfoot to become violent, I think it was in Port Chatham. You had the logging, you had the fishing, they were taking the resources. You're at the southern tip of a peninsula. There's nowhere to go. You know it. It's certainly possible that they backed a big the Bigfoot tribe, family, troop, whatever you want to call it, into a corner. And there was some retaliation.

1:13:44 We we broke that whole thing down and we did that manner and I was my comment was it's like well. You know, because he had mentioned that there's a fire and all kinds of stuff and I was just like, well, you know, both things can be true at the same time. There could be a fire depending on the season. It's like, is it even worth trying to rebuild this right now? And then also having either a, let's call it a couple, you know, issues missing people, you know, a couple dead people type stuff. Whether that was a serial killer was just in the area and he's like blaming the Bigfoot or something like that. And but then you had the the native legends surrounding that sort of stuff. So it would have kind of gravitated to people, might have gravitated towards, you know this idea that the Sasquatch were were picking people off type stuff. I was like either way you look at it, you know, like you just said resources weren't gone.

1:14:43 I was like, this could have just been a like, you know what? Screw it. I just, we just can't deal with it anymore, like. There is an article going around that just grinds my gears because there's this guy out there that's like the reason Port Chatham was abandoned is because the road was built that connected Anchorage to Homer, and that is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard in my life. If the road killed Port Chatham, then why do Soldovia, Nanwaloch and Port Graham still exist? There's still 3 villages over there. We don't do logic here on this show, all right? So why would the road kill 1 Village but not the other three? It's just, it's flawed logic. It's just, it's a guy that he's.

1:15:25 I don't think he's ever been to Alaska. And he's just like, I'll prove there's no Bigfoot. Oh, look, there was a highway built right around the time that town was abandoned. That must be it. But yeah, it's. It's a it's an interesting story. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been some kind of movie or something made about it. It would. It would make an amazing story. It would. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, there's not, there's not really that many good Bigfoot movies out there. And this could be one. It definitely could be. I don't know that that one came out a couple years ago. The man who killed Hitler and then killed the Bigfoot. Yeah, on Netflix.

1:16:08 You ever seen that, Jake? What? I'm not. I'm not joking. That's the title of the movie. It's on Netflix. You got to see it. It's. Pretty good. It's kind of a, it's kind of a little bit of a B movie. I want, I want a high budget, I want a good like the Godzilla movies, you know, like the the recent Godzilla movies with the, I mean you could do a spinoff from that with The Monarch looking into Bigfoot, you know, it's kind of like Godzilla. It's just a little smaller. Yeah, yeah, I'm a big monster, monster movie guy. Aliens and monsters, right? And I I tell Jeremy all the time, it's like, gosh, they need more monster movies. It's like everyone wants to talk about the demons and all this crap and all the murders and everything.

1:16:51 I want more monster movies, you know, like if we could for me, if it if it was a Bigfoot movie, along the same lines to the last Wolfman movie that came out. Have you seen exist? No. OK, Jake, you got to you got to watch exist. It's in my opinion, which is not worth much. It's probably it's the best modern Bigfoot movie. I gotta see which one it is because I've seen so many of them. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen this. This is on Amazon. Yeah, it's really good. I've seen this. It is good. It is very good. Yep. It's it's kind of a found footage, you know?

1:17:32 Where? Which is type? But the the quality, the suit quality is amazing. You know, the Bigfoot looks really great. The story's pretty good. I mean, it's not Shakespeare, but it's it's all right, you know? All right. Scifi Channel, you hear this. We don't want you. We need somebody who knows what they're doing. Yeah, well, there was that book that Max Brooks wrote, Devolution, or whatever it was. That was pretty good. And. And they were going to, they were talking about making a movie and that into a movie. And then I think it, I think it fell through or it got kind of like they're like, yeah, we're not going to, we're not going to make this, we're going to make something else. Did you read that book?

1:18:16 Yeah, I've got it back here. Yeah, man, it. Was a really slow start. Once it got going, it was good. But the it's Man, it's a I read so many, so many fictional books about Bigfoot too. Job remember here it's either the one where they have like this little community. Yeah. Green loop. That's it. That's the one. OK. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good one. That was a. Good one I I felt it was once it started going it was good. Like the last like 100 pages. Or no, probably not. Even that last 75 pages were awesome, but building to that point was a little slow. I think that they can make a better movie out of that than they did out of World War Z. I've never seen World War Z I'm not. Zombie movies are OK, but they're not really my back. Well, World War Z was originally a Max Brooks novel, but the novel is nothing like the movie.

1:19:09 It's. I do know that, yeah. The novel is just a whole bunch of, like, news clips and articles and that kind of stuff. Hilarious. What's that? That that the man who killed Hitler and then Bigfoot. I was sitting here looking at it. I was like, is that Sam Elliott? And I clicked on it, went into the IMDb and I was just like, holy crap, it's freaking Sam Elliott. That's hilarious. I'll totally watch it. You got to watch it. I'll watch it just for that mustache, bro. No good. Good stuff, man. All right. So before we wrap up for the night, let's let's let's talk about, talk about you know what what can the, the the listeners of the Infinite Rabbit Hole. How can they find you talk about Alice Watchman, Let's let's do this.

1:19:59 Yeah, so I've got a little podcast I I don't have like a regular set schedule. Kind of put it out whenever I feel like it. You can list it on all the major pod catchers, Spotify, iTunes, all that good stuff. And you can go to the website itsalastwatchpodcast.com. It's like Alaska and Sasquatch. ALASQQATCH. You can go to the website, you can purchase my books. You can have them personalized and autographed. If you buy them from the books, that's not your thing. You can buy them from Amazon. I know a lot of people love Amazon for the free shipping. I live in Alaska. I cannot give you free shipping. I'm sorry. Yeah, I've got the the usual links. I've got the Instagram. I'm on the Facebook.

1:20:40 I'm so old. The Facebook I'm on the Twitter or no XX, I'm on X, but under everything, just a last watch or last watch podcast is pretty much what I'm under. I throw out. I think I'm one of the first Bigfoot memes. I make a lot of Bigfoot memes and throw them up on the on Facebook and Instagram. Some of it might hurt if you're if you're sensitive they might hurt your feelings a little bit. But I like to make fun of some of the stuff in the Bigfoot community that kind of kind of irritates me. There's there's a there's one where I have the the dipper from Gravity Falls where he likes a piece of paper and goes that's this is worthless.

1:21:22 I have one where he's like it's like dear Bigfoot researcher, I know where Bigfoot is and I see him all the time. However, I can't offer you any proof because reasons and then dippers like this is worthless because that drives me crazy where people are like, oh I have the greatest footage of Bigfoot you've ever seen. It's better than the PG film, but I can't show it to you. Sorry. Yeah, it's like, well, don't even tell me about it. Bigfoot comes over every Friday night to play checkers with me, but you can't meet him because he said so sorry. All right. Well, we just, we just followed you on everything. And also, I'd subscribe to the the podcast. I'll give it a couple. I'll give it a listen, man. Awesome.

1:22:02 I'm trying to get one here out pretty soon. If you guys know Chook Chook's Outdoor Adventures, he's a he's. I think he started out as like a gun tuber, Like he does gun videos and stuff, and he's kind of started to get into like Bigfoot. And I was just hanging out with him the other day. We were filming some stuff, so those should go up pretty soon. I'll look for it for sure. Beans. By the way, how did you get the nickname? Well, it's not a very exciting story. So when I was in like elementary school, the Fox network came out. There was they had like married with children and 21 Jump St. and a couple other shows. Well, one of those shows that they first rolled out with was called Beans Baxter.

1:22:47 And there's about this kid, his dad was a spy and he gets like kidnapped by the evil spy organization and the the spy network that he worked for, they recruit Beans, his son, to help find him. So Beans was like a teenage spy, and he was like looking for his dad. And his last name was Baxter, and my last name is Baxter. So people started calling me Beans, and it kind of stuck. And it didn't help that my dad's name's Larry and my name's Larry. So it was kind of a way to differentiate between us. So it just stuck. And it's just, it's like the dude, you know? Like it's like, I'm Beans, you know, like I'm the Beans. People call me Larry and I'm like, who?

1:23:29 Well, man, do you got anything else that you want to plug real quick? No, man. Just I hope everybody enjoyed our talk. You know, I love talking about Bigfoot in Alaska. It's two of my favorite things. You know, just be careful what you consume out there in the in the Bigfoot world because there's a there's a lot of good stuff, there's a lot of entertaining stuff, but there's a lot of stuff out there that they're just not very honest with you. Yeah, Jake, you got anything for him before we go? No, I'm just stoked to have you here. That was that was very entertaining. I appreciate it. And I yeah, yeah, it'd be cool if we could get, if we could get access to that area. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

1:24:11 Doesn't mean we won't try. Yeah, people ask me all the time if I would go back and you know, I said I don't have any plans to, but if the right circumstances aligned, you know, I would do it. But I don't really want to go back for like a day trip or something. Like if I want to, if I'm going to go back, I want to like do it right, Go back with a good team and you know, a lot of resources and people and spend multiple days on the ground and just, you know, do it right. Right on, man. All right, Well, that has been another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. You guys have a Do you guys have A to do Rabbit ears? Is it? Is that the? Oh no.

1:24:51 Is that the official? Is that the official rabbit hole? Is that the official rabbit hole? Handshake you gotta make, Antlers fans. It's the. It's the. Tackle We're not furries, all right? No, we actually don't. We don't post the video. We don't post video. We used to back when we were on the paranormal network. We got we got recruited by the paranormal network back when that was the thing. And we used to do the video, but we haven't really done it since this. Is just so that we're not cutting each other off. We can get those. No, I I completely understand. I always like to do video because you can never like you end up talking over people when you can't see them. Exactly. You know, if you want to say something, you can be like, I got something to say, raise your hand. But yeah, no, I I completely understand. All right, well, that has been another episode of the Infinite Rabble Podcast.

1:25:40 Until next time travelers, we'll see you in the next fork and the path of the infinite rabbit hole. Goodbye there, you guys say bye. Bye. There it is. I would like to thank you once again for tuning into the Infinite Rabbit Hole Podcast. Please make sure to give us a follow and one of those beautiful five star ratings on your podcast player of choice if you would like to join the conversation and stay up to date on all things infinite rabbit hole. Head on over to Facebook and search for the Infinite Rabbit Hole Facebook group. You'll know it's us when you see the logo. If you would like to help contribute to this cause, there are a few ways to do so.

1:26:23 First, head on over to anchor dot FM forward slash infinite rabbit hole and click on the subscribe button where for $5 a month you'll get access to all our old episodes that will never see the free spotlight ever again. It's horrible stuff, but if you're into that kind of thing. Go check that second, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com and click on the IRH Merch shop tab and grab yourself a sweet tshirt, sticker or whatever else you see that you wouldn't mind on. Until next time travelers, I'm Jeremy and I'll see you at the next fork in the path of the infinite rabbit hole. The past.

1:27:14 Prior to this point in time. Somewhere in the past, the timeline skewed into this tangent, creating a post to it. 1985 Alternate You need Einstein, the reality for everyone else.