IRH 267: Apocalypse Beliefs, Black Hole Swarm & The Consciousness Crisis

0:00 March 1st, 2026 scientists published a study showing that 1/3 of Americans believe the world will end in their lifetime. It's not just fringe conspiracy theorists, it's mainstream psychology published in a journal of Personality and Social Psychology. And researchers are asking what happens when apocalyptic thinking becomes normal? That same week, astronomers at the University of Barcelona published findings in Nature Astronomy about Palomar 5A star cluster being consumed from the inside by a swarm of over 100 black holes. Each one is 20 times the mass of our sun, and they're tearing through the Milky Way on a collision course with nobody knows. Two days earlier, on February 28th, a family of three in Oklahoma reported a clear daylight sighting of a massive bipedal creature crossing a power line easement northwest of Durant.

0:54 The Bigfoot Fuel Researchers organization classified it as a Class A encounter. Credible witnesses, close range, no misidentification. And this week, scientists warn that humanity is facing a quote UN quote existential risk because we're building AI systems and growing brain tissue faster than we can understand consciousness itself. Apocalyptic beliefs going mainstream, a black hole swarm devouring a star cluster, Bigfoot walking power line corridors in broad daylight and the consciousness crisis. AI minds we can't recognize, brain organoids that might be aware, and ethical disasters we're not prepared to handle.

1:36 All of it happened in the last 10 days. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole.

2:18 What's up everyone, I'm Jeremy Socia and you're listening to Infinite Rabbit Hole. You're briefing on the unexplained. Today I'm joined by my Co host Jake and CJ. We've got a packed episode tonight. If you're new here, hit the subscribe button and leave us a rating and review. It helps more people find the show. You can find us on infiniterabbithole.com, Facebook, Instagram X, and YouTube. And if you're watching on YouTube right now, make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We're posting video versions of every episode so you can watch long as we break down the unexplained. Currently, we are only 98 subscribers away from our 1000 sub milestone. We would love your help getting there. All right, let's get into it. We've got three stories in our briefing section tonight.

3:00 And then we're going deep on something that first breach headlines on February 1st but is now beginning to be talked about much more among, well, everyone. Scientists warning that we're racing toward an existential risk because we're creating consciousness faster than we can understand it. But first, our news briefing. In our first story, a new study published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology shows that nearly 1/3 of Americans believe the world will end in their lifetimes. And it's revealing 5 different dimensions of how people think about the apocalypse, from who causes it to whether we can stop it. For our second story, astronomers discovered a swarm of 100 black holes tearing through a star cluster in the Milky Way. The cluster is dissolving, and in a billion years, all that will be left is a stream of black holes orbiting the Galaxy. And for our final briefing, a family in Oklahoma had a close encounter with something massive walking across a power line easement in broad daylight.

3:57 The Bigfoot field researchers organization calls it a Class A sighting. But prior to jumping into our briefings, let's go ahead and check in with the Co host for the night. Gentlemen, how is the? I'm good. As promised, I3D printed a tridactyl so Jeremy could feel bad about his obsession with them. As you can see, it is in fact bullshit. Here I am. It is kind. Of hard to see on on the with the lights. But yeah, I kind of painted the wrong color. But I mean, honestly, it really is it could you paint the right color? I mean it is fake after all, you know, it could be pink.

4:37 I mean, I don't know, you went through some, some pretty hard times to get it. We in fact we have, we have documented imagery, a photograph if you will, of you discovering this thing. It's bullshit. It is. Yeah, there I am discovering. Bulls in. The Caves. And he's got shit on his hand. Look at that. Yeah. Yep. There was shit everywhere. Yeah, I was. Specifically from. Bulls. Oh, yeah, yeah, actually behind The Cave, there was behind me in The Cave, there was those lights. They're mounted on several bulls crapping all over the place. But there I am, discovering it mixed among their their bullshit. All right, CJ, let's hear.

5:25 Let's hear about this hat man. What's going on with this? I forgot to put a hat on and I'm balding and this is the only hat that was in my studio and I feel like it so I was not about to run upstairs to go get another hat. I dig it man, I like it. I appreciate it. I think you're. Going to give our listeners strokes. I hope so. It's it's it's the alien. It's taking over. It's a symbiote. It also looks a little bit like the Pope hat. So I'm the alien Pope. I'm. The alien Pope. Well, it's cute, man. It is. It's adorable. All right, guys, ready to jump into the briefings? Yeah.

6:08 All right. On March 3rd, 2026, Richards published a study in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology that reveals something striking about the American mindset. Nearly 1/3 of Americans believe the world will end in their lifetime. The study was conducted by researchers at UC Irvine and the University of British Columbia. They surveyed over 3400 participants across diverse populations to understand how people think about the apocalypse. And what they found is that apocalyptic thinking isn't 1 dimensional, it's fairly complex. It operates across 5 distinct psychological dimensions, the first being immense. This measures how soon people think the end will come. Some believe it's decades away, others think it's happening right now.

6:56 The study found that a significant portion of Americans see the apocalypse as imminent, something that will occur within their lifetime or even within the next few years. The second being human versus divine causation. This measures who or what people believe will cause the end. Is it humanity's fault? Climate change, nuclear war? AI going rogue? Or is it an act of God, divine judgement, or cosmic forces beyond our control? The study found that belief split along these lines, with some people attributing apocalyptic scenarios entirely to human actions, while others see it as predetermined by higher powers, The third being personal control.

7:39 This measures whether people believe they can do anything to stop or delay the apocalypse. Some respondents felt powerless, that the end is inevitable and nothing they do matters. Others believe that individual or collective action could change the outcome. And this dimension is critical because it affects how people respond to existential threats. If you believe you have no control, you're less likely to take action. If you believe you do, you might fight harder to prevent catastrophe. The 4th being emotional outlook. This measures how people feel about the apocalypse. Are they terrified, resigned, or strangely optimistic? Some participants expressed dread and anxiety, but others saw the apocalypse as a necessary reset, a cleansing event, or even something they welcomed. The emotional response shapes behavior. Fear can paralyze acceptance, can lead to apathy, and in some cases, anticipation can feel dangerous ideologies and 5th. The nature of the apocalypse itself. This dimension looks at what people think the end will look like.

8:45 Will it be gradual environmental collapse? Sudden nuclear annihilation? A pandemic that wipes out civilization? The return of Christ? An asteroid impact? Alien intervention? The study found that people's visions of the apocalypse vary widely, but they all share one common thread, a belief that the current world order is unsustainable and heading towards collapse. Now, here's why this matters. Apocalyptic thinking is no longer confined to religious extremists or doomsday preppers. It's permeating mainstream. It's affecting how people vote, how they plan for the future, and how they respond to crises like climate change, pandemics and the AI development. Doctor Yiget Usterk, one of the study's authors, said this quote.

9:32 Understanding apocalyptic beliefs is crucial because they influence behavior on a societal level. If a large portion of the population believes that the world is ending, that shapes policy, economics, and social stability. And here's the meta narrative that connects this to everything we cover on Infinite Rabbit Hole. Fringe beliefs are becoming mainstream. A decade ago, if you said you believed the world would end in your lifetime, you'd be dismissed as a paranoid or delusional. Now it's a statistically significant world view held by millions of Americans. This parallels other fringe to mainstream shifts we've tracked. UFOs went from conspiracy theory to congressional hearings. AI consciousness went from science fiction to peer reviewed journals.

10:15 Ancient civilizations went from pseudoscience to legitimate archaeological debate, and apocalyptic thinking is following the same trajectory. The study also found that apocalyptic beliefs intersect with conspiracy theories called ideologies and religious worldviews. People who believe the world is ending are more likely to distrust institutions, reject mainstream narratives, and seek alternative explanation for global events. So here's the bottom line. 1/3 of Americans believe the world will end in their lifetime. That belief operates across 5 psychological dimensions. Imminence. Causation control emotion and vision, and it's shaping how people interpret reality, respond to crises, and engage with the world around them. So my question, Jake, CJ, do you think that this is rational? Are people responding to legitimate existential threats like nuclear war?

11:06 Or is this mass delusion fueled by anxiety and misinformation? I'm not actually sure I believe in nuclear weapons. OK, Jeff. Is that a Jeff thing? Yes, it might be. I don't know. I haven't talked to Jeff in a really long time. I hope he's doing good. He is. But no, like, yeah, I'm really not. I'm really not 100. Well, I it's not that I don't think I don't, it's not that I don't think that nuclear weapons like don't exist all together. I don't think there is nasty. I don't think they've progressed really that much further than say like the atomic bomb, because there's no way that some of these evil countries wouldn't have used something at this point. You know, they're not, they're not rational. They're not in their right minds half the time. So I don't know.

11:53 I, I, I don't, I don't really think I mean, what, who said it? There was somebody, I believe it was a philosopher, said that the Third World War, he didn't know what the Third World War would be fought with, but the 4th 1 would be fought with sticks and stones. I've heard such things. Yeah, honestly, I don't, I don't, I don't really worry too much about nuclear weapons, right? Because I mean it honestly, if if they do exist in the capacity that people say they exist in, the reality is if one country fires one, all countries are firing their weapons and it's over. And there's no point in being worried about it. We're all dead, right?

12:36 So it is what it is. Do you, do you really not know who said that? No, I don't remember. I don't remember who said that. It is Sir Albert Einstein, actually. I, you know, I wanted to say that. I just didn't want to misspeak. I just, I, I honestly, I couldn't, I couldn't remember for sure who said it. Yeah, it is the the guy. The guy. Einstein. Einstein also didn't say half the shit he's credited for saying. Most of the stuff he came up with and said was his wife. So. I mean, I heard that he said stay strapped or get clapped. And those are words that I. Live by, you know, I do live by that as well. I live by that as well. Jeremy's going to find out in October why I live by that when he comes out here and sees this town.

13:21 So, Jake, what do you think? Pam A. 100% I believe that the world will end in my lifetime. Think so. And it's funny too, because these things you you throughout as gradual environmental collapse, sudden nuclear annihilation, A pandemic that wipes out civilization, the return of Christ and asteroid impact, alien intervention. Like all of that is biblical. So it's. Like, that's like the whole book of Revelations. If you look, if you read the Book of Revelation, it's in sections of like the the wrath of God pouring out. There's plagues and famine, there's a meteor impact. There's, you know, rivers turning to blood and, you know, blood moons and the sky going dark.

14:03 There's. The earth cracks open and giant monsters come crawling. Yeah, the demons pour out all over the Earth that some people would say there there's aliens. Like I'm kind of at the point where I'm like not 100% combating people when they talk about climate change and stuff because they're supposed to be a period of five months where the sun is so hot, it boils people alive when they, when they stand in it. Like, so it's like that has to come from somewhere. A RIP in the ozone perhaps. So it's like there's, you know, and then at the end of it or in the middle of it's the return of Christ and then or the calling up of the people and then at the end of it, it's the return of Christ. So literally all that stuff.

14:44 Absolutely. I'm 100% on board. The thing is, is that I hope that it gets that we get prolonged. And the reason that I hope that is not because I don't see the injustices in the world and I don't see the pain, the hurt. And it like it would be great to just wrap this stuff up, but I see a lot of people that need salvation and I hope that for their state that it's postponed until the last person on earth gets the opportunity to say yes or no to that salvation. If they once that happens, then so be it, right? And and there's obviously it says that people will be coming to Christ in the end times because they'll be the three witnesses that will be the two witnesses that will be standing at the gates in Jerusalem.

15:28 They'll be hated by the whole world and then they'll be killed and then be resurrected like this, this whole thing. So people will be coming to to faith in the end times. But for their sake, for those that have been reached yet, I hope that it gets pushed back. But for the sake like of everyone that has to deal with the most horrible atrocities around the world, things that Americans can't even wrap their heads around, the average American that doesn't look at the, you know, watch the news or doesn't look into other cultures and things like that. For their sake of those people that are dealing with that, I hope that it's soon. So I'm kind of in a toss up thing. And that's when I have to rely on on God's sovereignty and say that he understands what's going on in the world and he's going to wrap it up when he sees fit. But for me IA 100% believe that it will happen in my lifetime. But is that tomorrow or is that in I don't know how? How much longer do I have left?

16:21 Is that in 50 years, right, 60 years? I don't know I I was talking. To you. Well, I at the at the grocery store, Brian who he's kind of my, my go to conspiracy guy. So whenever we talk about something interesting on the podcast, I hit him up. I'm like, Hey, what do you think about this? And we kind of have a chat and well, I'm getting checked out at the in the, the line, right. But I was like, for me as a Christian guy, I'm looking at this whole picture as like an unfinished puzzle, like a jigsaw puzzle. And every time some crazy stuff happens in the world, I see it, I'm seeing like, this is another puzzle piece. And it's like, oh, here's where it fits, Boop right there.

17:01 And it's coming to this fruition of this whole picture that's being laid out and we're not there yet. But every single time something, something weird happens even like this, you know, all this stuff going on the Middle East right now, like there's Bible prophecy that seems to line up with this sort of stuff in what was ancient Iran, you know, with the whole regime being completely toppled over and, you know, and fixed like in a return of the people back to God, Like it's a whole big thing. And so I'm like seeing all these puzzle pieces lining up and it's like, and at what point is that picture going to be completely revealed? You know, is that now or is that later? You know, all I can say is that it looks pretty bad now.

17:43 And I, I know it's going to get worse, but at what point will it get worse? And I hope it's not in, you know, I hope that the United States doesn't get wiped out in a nuclear Holocaust because the Bible does talk about the New Babylon being completely wiped out in a matter of seconds and all the nations in the world mourning the the fall of this nation. Who is New Babylon? If you read it, it sounds a awful lot like the United States, like all the world profit off of the goods that comes out of New Babylon and it gets annihilated in a matter of seconds. So is that in the United States? I hope not, you know, but is that a metaphor? Hopefully you know, but it's like. I mean, if we think about that country that the world's profit off of like the goods that come out of it, it's really, it could be China, everything comes out of China.

18:29 So quick question for you because it's kind of relevant to the topic. Are you familiar with the concept of partial standard and full preterism? No. All right, so it's a, it's a Christian belief that well, I mean, it's, it's partial standard. And then like full preterism, they, they think that like the, but what all the way to the full preterism? We'll just go with that. They think the rapture already happened and all the prophecies have already been fulfilled. I have heard that yes, that was like done by like Nero and stuff like that, like the end time. Yeah, yeah, Nero, Nero. The Antichrist and everything, right? Yeah. So they, they, they base a lot of their beliefs off of the fact that like if you look at writing, all writing throughout ages is done in the idiom of the time, right.

19:14 So then they went back and they researched the idioms of who, who wrote the Bible first. We just talked about this two episodes ago. Was it, was it ancient Hebrew first or was it, I forget. Yeah, Hebrew first. So they, they, they went and they went back and researched literally like the slang and idiom of the time when that Bible was written. And then they take that and then they redefine the meanings and metaphors within the Bible. And they came to the conclusion that actually at this point the rapture happened in like, oh man, I got to get that guy to come on this show and talk to us. It would be a com. It would be a fun conversation.

19:54 I, we interviewed him on mystery Sona wall and he explained everything. I was like 1400 or something like that or. 480 or something, I think that anything happened, we're literally just waiting for Christ to come back at this point, like. I will. Say hell or something. That Jesus said to repent and believe, he didn't say to have a full grasp on eschatology, which is the study of the end times. There's plenty of people that say that, you know, there's plenty of belief systems within the Christian community that say that Nero was actually the Antichrist. And to that I would say that there have been plenty of people throughout the year who have had what I would call the Antichrist spirit, which if they if it went to fruition, Satan would have absolutely used them as the Antichrist. And the hallmark of that is they're attacking of the chosen people of God, which is the Jews, not Israel, right? Not, not the state of Israel, but the Jewish people themselves, the hatred and disdain for the Jewish people, right?

20:51 And you see that through people like Nero, who's killing Christians and Jews. And you see that in like Hitler, who was killing Christians and Jews and all these sorts of, and other people as well. But the main disdain was for what we'd call the children of God, right? Or the chosen people of God. So there's been plenty of people throughout this history who have been kind of like maybe a dry run for the Antichrist, or could have been had everything else lined up as well. 100 years ago Israel didn't exist, so it wouldn't have been possible for Hitler to have been to You have been the Antichrist, right Because there is biblical prophecy that lines up but every political. Figures. The Antichrist.

21:33 My my house really got watched by the NSA once because somebody sent me an envelope in the mail with all kinds of stuff talking about how Obama was the Antichrist and someone. Was I heard that too in the. Head. Yeah, I heard that too. Obama was the Antichrist. Now Trump's the Antichrist, and everyone's the Antichrist. Yeah, people like to throw that around. And yeah, the Antichrist spirit is absolutely alive and well, and it's just the spirit of disobedience, honestly. But. The reason I'm asking though, the reason I'm asking is because what do you guys think is the possibility that we're already living in the end times? That the reason we're experiencing the world and the way we are right now is because we're already living through an ended world and this is like some form of hell we have to get through. Well, I would say no to that because they're still good. There's a say.

22:19 There's a there's a lot of positives in my life. The the Hallmark. Of well, so evil can't exist without good, right? And good can't exist without evil because they literally define each other. Not necessarily, because the hallmark of the end times is that Christ lifts the Holy Spirit up out of the earth and that people are allowed the, the bound, the the binding is released and people are allowed to be as evil as they possibly want to be, right? But what I'm saying is that if it wasn't cut short, nobody would survive, right? So there's not going to be people stopping people from murdering each other. But. What I'm saying is. Because everyone's going to want to do it and be able to do it right? Good doing good. The thing is, is it's it's a philosophical paradox, right? So if good does not exist, there's nothing to define what evil is.

23:05 And if evil doesn't exist, there's nothing to define what good is. So even if this was hell, not all people who do evil things are evil people. Sometimes they're just people who did something that was evil, if that makes sense. I mean, people are evil in in in things. But like, if you think about it in this way, someone breaks into your house or threatening your family, you kill them. Killing is murder, regardless of whether it was legal or not. Murderous pre is murder. Is whatever a killing is a killing, right? A killing is killing, killing, killing. Killing is killing. Whether it was legal or not, it's still an act of evil. So just because you killed a man doesn't make you evil. It means you did something that was evil, right? So you still you, you could still have people being punished for the evil they did, even though that they were kind of good people.

23:58 So we could have good people in hell who did evil things who need to repent and and make up for what they've done, basically serve a sentence, right? So that's why like you, you can't have evil without good. So if this was a hell, we would need good people for us to be able to identify what evil is. I hear what you're saying and IA 100% disagree. OK. I mean, that's fair. I'm just. But I hear you. But I disagree. But yeah, I hope that this isn't the end. Like as as just a person that lives on this planet. I hope that this isn't the end. Because I don't think it is. I just think it's an interesting concept, that's all. Selfishly, there's things that I want to do, but then it wouldn't be unreasonable to find someone in a completely different country who's just being crushed under the weight of that society and say, gosh, you know, Lord Jesus, I hope that this is the end so that my people don't suffer anymore. So it's we kind of, I think that here in America, we have this like, you know, we're very sheltered away from like for example, in China, they do live broadcasts and public executions.

25:05 So people know straight up, whatever the the reasoning was, this is what the result of this behavior is, right? We don't get that America, we're lucky if we get, you know, blood splatters that aren't blurred, right? We're so sheltered. I think that people here in, or at least in the Western countries, have a very narrow view of what the other people in the world are dealing with, whether it's positive or negative. And that could shape a lot of, you know, whether we believe we're in the end times, how's it going to happen, things like that. I try not to be that way, but I can only live based off of my experiences. I can't pretend to be someone else or pretend to be in someone else's shoes. So I will selfishly say that I hope that the end isn't soon, but I recognize that there are probably plenty of people that say please Lord, let the end be soon, you know? Right.

26:00 You can't know what you can't know, right, Right. So. All right, well, going way back to when Jake first started responding to this, he talked about how he listed off a bunch of things that I listed off in my script and how they are all mentioned in the Bible. Of course I have to recommend a book and the book that it is not, it's actually Nuclear War by Annie Jacobson. Phenomenal book, absolutely mind opening. I, I, I don't even have words to to really describe the way you'll feel when you read this book.

26:42 It's terrifying is what it is. It, it's, it's terrifying. And you had mentioned a couple of those symptoms that I had described and just wanted to throw this out there. Enough nuclear bombs go off. Yes, nuclear weaponry does work and it it is stronger than atomic weaponry. Just want to throw that out there too. Enough, enough of them go off and the ozone literally starts to burn off. So the protective cushion that we have from the sun's radiation melts away. And although it technically wouldn't actually make it a ton more hotter because it's actually the ozone that helps create that greenhouse effect where we have the global warming, right? You have that barrier between you and space, right? That starts to burn off.

27:37 It actually start. It would actually get colder, but we would burn from the UV light. So it wouldn't necessarily be like a physical fiery burn, but it would be a physical. It'd be like a radiation. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's radiation. Exactly. I guess I went the long way on that. So I I just wanted to share a website that I actually visit very often. This is news.ucar.edu UCAR stands for University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. This is a an article that I that I read specifically while doing the research for this blurb. This was an article that that was referenced in a different article that I was reading about on the actual subject on the study of apocalyptic thinking.

28:34 This is a website that I that I go to very often when I'm looking for things to do with infinite rabbit hole, various things specifically, obviously with the atmosphere being it. That's the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. But this right here, if you ever want to find a good article to read on how nuclear war would affect our atmosphere, this is a phenomenal, phenomenal article by David Hosanski. Very good. University Corporation, right? Yep, University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. So they get paid for stuff A. Lot of people do, yes. I mean, it is what it is.

29:16 You get paid, obviously, when you're lying. I mean, I give that Jeremy. Geez. I, I, I get paid half a penny per listen on this podcast. Liar. So so. Let's say I I don't discount that they might be getting paid to disseminate certain types of information in certain fashions. Yeah. I mean, if this was a bigger outlet, maybe, right? This isn't a huge outlet. This is a very, dare I say, educational outlet, although I mean, I could see the argument there too. I don't know. Well, I mean, the American education system is designed to create workers, not intelligent people, so that's not really an argument for how it's legit. Well, this is definitely for intelligent people. This is. This is not.

29:56 This is. Do they use big words? They do use. You can use, you can use 4 syllable words and make it sound like it's for intelligent people when you're really just feeding them nonsense. Or you're feeding, or you have intelligent people and you're feeding them nonsense. Atmosphere. Nope, that's everybody knows what the atmosphere is, but nobody knows what stress I have my screen split so I've. Heard that word before? No, it's. Like, but like, I mean like, like if you take, if you, if you have really intelligent people and you throw big words at them, it kind of like strokes their ego a little bit, right? They're like, oh, I know what those mean. And you can make them intelligent people are very easy to manipulate. Are they? Yeah. Because they have, they tend to have really big egos that they give in to them constantly.

30:38 They're not, they're not aware of their own arrogance when it comes to how smart they are. So you throw big words at them and stuff. It's you know who also has from big egos. Stupid people. They have big. Egos too. They do. You are 100. Percent correct, you're a. 100% correct. Stimulate me, CJ. When you get when you get here in. October we'll have a conversation. Stimulate my neuron. CJ All. Right. You guys ready to move on? Yeah. All right, we we only spent 30. Minutes on this listen when Jeff when Jeff comes. Back, I'll let him start telling you everything is fake and I'll take a back seat but almost got to fill the void until then when Jeff comes back I'm going to have to. Narrow this down to to two briefings and a half a deep dive because Jeff, when Jeff comes back, I'm. Going to have a teammate, that's what's going to happen. You guys are ganged up on all.

31:31 Right now we are moving on to briefing #2 between February. 20th and. 22nd 2026 Researchers at the University of Barcelona published findings in Nature Astronomy that reveals something extraordinary happening in the Milky Way. A star cluster called Palomar 5 is being devoured from the inside by a swarm of over 100 black holes. Let me explain what we're looking at here. Palomar 5 is what astronomers call a globular star cluster. These are dense, spherical collections of stars that orbit galaxies. They're ancient, typically billions of years old, and they contain hundreds of thousands or even millions of stars packed into a relatively small volume of space. Palomar 5 is located about 80,000 light years from Earth. It's one of the most studied globular clusters in the Milky Way because it has something unusual, A tidal system. A tidal stream is a trail of stars that have been pulled away from the cluster by gravitational forces. Think of it like a ribbon of stars stretching across space. In Palomar 5's case, the stream spans 30,000 light years, more than the width of the entire Milky Way's disc. For years, owners couldn't figure out why Palomar Five had such a title stream.

32:53 Most globular clusters don't shed stars this aggressively. Something was pulling the cluster apart faster than expected and now we know what it is, The. Research team. Led by Doctor Mark Giels at the University of Barcelona used data from the European Space agencies Gaia Space Observatory to map the cluster in unprecedented detail. Gaia measures the positions, distances and motions of billions of stars with extreme precision. What they found is this Palomar 5 contains over 100 stellar mass black holes. Each one is roughly 20 times the mass of our sun. And here's the critical part. These black holes make up about 20% of the cluster's total mass. That's three times higher than what astronomers expected. In most star clusters, black holes are rare. They're the remnants of massive stars that collapsed at the end of their lives.

33:44 And because black holes are heavy and interact gravitationally with other stars, they tend to sink toward the center of a cluster and eventually get ejected through gravitational interactions. But in Palomar 5, black holes that didn't get ejected, they stayed, and they started eating the cluster from the inside. Here's how it works. The black holes in Palomar 5 orbit within the cluster alongside the stars. Because they're so massive, the gravity is much stronger. As they move through the cluster, they gravitationally interact with stars, pulling on them, slinging them around, and gradually kicking them out of the cluster entirely. This process is called dynamical ejection, and it's why Palomar 5 has such a long tidal stream.

34:26 The black holes are accelerating the cluster's dissolution, Dr. Deals said. This quote, the title stream we're seeing is the graveyard of stars that couldn't escape the gravitational chaos created by the black holes. Now here's where it gets really interesting. The research team ran computer simulations to model the future of Palomar 5, and what they found is that in about 1 billion years, the cluster will completely dissolve. All the stars will be gone, stripped away and scattered across the Galaxy, and all that will remain is a string of black holes orbiting the Milky Way. A swarm of over 100 black holes, each 120 times the mass of our sun, traveling together in a loose formation throughout the Galaxy.

35:09 Now, before anyone panics, this swarm is not heading toward Earth. Palomar 5 is 80,000 light years away, and its orbit takes it around the outer region of the Galaxy. We're technically in no danger from this, but conceptually, this is significant. First, it challenges what we thought we knew about globular clusters. Astronomers assumed that black holes in clusters would get ejected quickly. But Palomar 5 proves that under certain conditions, black holes can dominate a cluster, stick around for billions of years, and slowly consume it. Second, it explains the mystery of tidal streams. There are other globular clusters in the Milky Way with unusually long tidal streams, and astronomers have struggled to explain them.

35:52 This discovery suggests that many of those clusters might also be harboring swarms, black holes. Third, it raises questions about dark matter. Globular clusters are often used to study dark matter because their gravitational behavior can reveal invisible mass. But if some of that invisible mass is actually black holes, not dark matter, it complicates our of how dark matter works in our galaxies. And 4th, it gives us a glimpse of a cosmic process we've never directly observed the formation of free floating black hole clusters. In a billion years, when Palomar 5 is gone, what's left won't be a star cluster anymore. It'll be a black hole cluster, a gravitational bounce swarm of invisible objects silently orbiting the Galaxy, potentially interacting with anything that gets too close. Now here's the fringe angle.

36:39 Some researchers have speculated about rogue black hole swarms traveling through the undetected. The idea is that these swarms could gravitationally disrupt star systems, planets, or even trigger extinction events if they pass close enough to a solar system. Mainstream astronomers say that's extremely unlikely. Space is vast, and even a swarm of 100 black holes is a tiny target in the cosmic void. The odds of such a swarm passing through our solar system are astronomically low. But the discovery of Palomar 5 proves that black hole swarms are real. They exist, they form naturally, and they persist for billions of years. So the question isn't whether black hole swarms are possible. They are. The question is how many of them are out there, and are there any heading our way?

37:24 So here's the bottom line. Astronomers discovered over 100 black holes tearing apart as star cluster 80,000 light years away. In a billion years, the cluster will be gone, leaving only a stream of black holes orbiting the Galaxy. And this discovery is forcing scientists to rethink how globular clusters die, how black holes behave in groups and weather. Invisible swarms of black holes are silently drifting through the Milky Way. So, Jake CJ does the idea of a black hole swarm cruising through the Galaxy freak you out at all? Or is this just another cosmic process we don't need to worry about? How does? How does one of these? Things form does like a black hole roll up on another black hole start throwing up like gang signs and like they click up and then they start going through the how does this how does this happen? So a lot of black holes.

38:11 Are actually super compressed star matter there's many different ways that that stars can die right they can go supernova they I know how a black hole was created why does it. Have to be. What do they get? How do they right? Right. Do you all you see is color? No, like how do they get how do they get together and then start cruising through galactic neighborhoods fucking the place up? Like how does that happen? So globular clusters. OK, this is I'm going way back in into my, my college days when I was in astronomy. Globular clusters are super densely packed regions of space and they're actually one of the most studied objects or groupings in space. And they're best studied for utilizing the Doppler effect to see the expansion of space.

39:03 Globular Globular clusters are thought to be some of the oldest structures in all of space that we can that we know of. And the reason for that is because of the density the gravitational. Field. Created by the dense amount of stars in a globular cluster creates this almost residence based hold right? And that makes it difficult for anything to escape. Now, if you have a ton of these stars and they're all gravitationally held within these clusters and they start going supernova, they start collapsing amongst themselves or into themselves. These very dense areas of space are just naturally going to create a dense cluster of black holes as well. So it's not necessarily that they're wandering through space and being like, yo, what up bro?

40:01 Let's let's gang up on all these other stars. It's that they're actually being formed inside of these globular clusters just because of the sheer Valium. Of stars in there. And they are. They're, as far as we can tell, they're very, very old. OK. So the fact that a lot of these stars have already collapsed on themselves, gone supernova or fizzled out into white dwarves is not unexpected. Does that make sense? Yeah. No. No, no, it makes sense. I, I I. Just wanted to know how these clusters got. But so basically a bunch of stars die, they turn into zombies and they make other star zombies and they start cruising through and spinning their own block and just making more star zombies.

40:47 And you know what? Fuck it. Yeah, that that works. We'll go that because like, because like as they they're they're. Killing other stars by consuming them right? And like so if they can, if these black holes consume another star, do those stars become black holes or they just swallowed stars being? Sucked in by black holes are consumed now. It's not great for them then then they don't get to. Beat black holes as well. Well, they're Or do they just make the black? Hole bigger black. Hole like how does that work? No, no. Basically. It's an old ass *. System where say like there's multiple stars in there? No, no, I understood that like we have this cluster. Of stars. Stars get old, they start to die. They make this cluster, they're not eating the other stars around them. What I'm asking is, when they consume these stars, does that make the black hole larger?

41:34 Does it give it motion? Slightly but not nearly as much. As you would think it does OK like holes. Actually the the gravitational force from black holes are so strong that the influence that is put on them by typical astronomical bodies is very minute. You would have to have pretty much another black hole effect, a black hole with its own gravitational mass. You ever heard of a quasar? OK, so a quasar is again, man, this is very nominal understanding. There's there's no real nothing's for certain in in astronomy, right? A lot of it is absurd.

42:19 And then try to fill in the blanks you best can, right? And I, I, I could sit down with an astronomer tonight and they'll tell me that I'm stupid and I don't know what I'm talking about. So like that. So they have the facts, but the, the truth is, is that nobody's been alive for billions of years to be able to see these processes happen. So, so then basically what we have is. In layman's turn, we have a cluster of stars and it's now imploding, right? Star structure that they make black holes and it's starting to implode on it. So he said it's held together by a gravitational field. So these stars, they die and they're consuming the stars around them. So we have this globular cluster you called it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's imploding, right? It's sucking itself and it's killing itself. If we think of the cluster as like 1 body of made-up of several bodies, No, I mean it's.

43:05 It's got it's, it's so big that it's got its own areas within it which are being affected in different ways. So it's not necessarily that the entire globular structure is collapsing onto itself. There's enough space in there to where you'd have these pin holes with black holes that are affecting other solar structures. None of this is real. Space is fake. I'm questions are over. I'm I'm going to bring up. A thing. I did a long time ago if I can find it. It's been a. While I say that if it is. Really, something that's happening, then it's not something that needs to be worried about because there's nothing we could do about it.

43:49 If they decided to decide to take a a sharp right hand turn, missed Albuquerque and ended up right in our solar system, right, there'd be nothing we could do. It would happen so fast and we'd all die in a terrifying way all together. It would just go out and watch the way it is. Actually, doesn't quantum physics say? Like if you if we were to be sucked into a black hole, it would what is that? Like spaghetti us first. Like it would stretch us. Like it would be really weird, right? Like it would. Well, I mean, it'd be horrifying, isn't that? All die together. Well, I don't even know if it would be horrifying. It would be very. Fast, right? But it isn't like I said. Then they call that like spaghetti effect. Am I thinking of the right thing? No, it'd be like Hitchhiker's guide. To the Galaxy, everyone would be screaming at the same time and then it's gone.

44:34 You know I I could have swore though when a black hole. Swallows something. It does something called the spaghetti effect and and it like super stretches something out and then like sucks it all in at once. I'm trying to find something. Right now I don't know if I have it anymore. Oh my gosh, my typing skills are. Terrible Tonight we're going to we're going to go ahead and just hope that perplexity can define one Oh my God, I. Was right. It's called. Spaghettification. It's an extreme tidal. Effect caused by a very strong, uneven gravitational field near a black hole.

45:15 If you fell on feet first, your feet would feel much stronger gravity than your head, so you'd be stretched lengthwise and squeeze from the sides like a long new. It does the same thing. The stars are glass gas clouds. Yeah. I wouldn't worry about any of this because it like if any of this was going to happen like all you could do is look up and go well we're fucked Yep bye and then we all get stretched. Into spaghetti and sucked into the void. Yeah, yeah. You know what? I'm. I'm oddly comfortable with being turned into spaghetti before dying. Like if I'm calling out if you, if you gotta go. But Spaghetti's amazing. Who doesn't? Like, have you ever met a person ever who was like Spaghetti's gross? I've met people who like spaghetti is a side dish.

45:56 Like I met people who will tell you spaghetti is a side dish, not a main course. And we can debate that all day. But I've never met somebody who thought spaghetti was gross. So like if if a black hole, I'm oddly comfortable with that situation. But like, there's a planet made of spaghetti. There's no point in worrying about any of that. Like, that is so far beyond our power that like, getting upset or being afraid of it or worrying about it would just detriment your day-to-day life. I think that scientists. Bring things like this up or like the idea that an asteroid could pass within like 100 billion light years of us and stuff like that. It's just like just to get a rise out of people and be like, I found it. We found it from now for.

46:38 Nothing. It's simple. One second. It's similar, it's similar to like people being scared of God coming back, right? They're like, Oh my God, I'm so scared. God's coming back. It's like, all right, so just don't be a Dick, so. Like don't be an don't don't. Be, don't, don't do the things that God doesn't like and you don't have nothing to worry about, right? Like he, he very clearly defined the things to not do. He didn't say the things to do. He said the things to not do. And if you don't do those things, you, you might be OK, you might get a chance, right? So so here is our. I I I've, I've, I have literally hundreds of write ups. You're on things, Jeremy. I, I, I, I know you know how hard it was to fill time while. You were looking for that, I know, I'm sorry. Anyways.

47:25 So I I wrote up this presentation a long time ago about are UFOs extraterrestrial and origin and inside this. There is my. Section on globular clusters. So I'll just read this. Astronomers get the lower. End of the age of the universe by looking at what are called globular clusters, which are very dense and spherical shaped collections of millions of stars. According to NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, if we were in one of these globular clusters, there would be several 100,000 stars closer to us than the previous mentioned Proxima Centauri.

48:09 So obviously there's going to be parts that I'm referencing here from earlier in this this presentation. The reason why astronomers are specifically interested in these astral structures is due to their ancient age. These are the oldest objects or groups of objects in our observable universe, which allows us to get to lower end of our universe's estimated age after we determine how old the stars are in the clusters. Although the real ordinary that part that you just went. Over is that insinuating Big Bang Theory like that's like the like part of origin of like Big Bang like that's where it was like yes, so globular, globular. Clusters are thought to be structures in space that are closest in age to the origin of The Big Bang.

48:51 OK, yes, all, although the real. Origins. Of globular clusters is a mystery. There are multiple theories on how they come to be. One such theory is that they come from events that occurred on or around the first few billion years of the universe's existence. Another idea is that they are simply the rebirth cycle of stars in a nebula after a parent star has gone supernova. But for the point of our discussion today, we will focus on the former theory. Globular clusters are typically found in what is referred to as the Halo of a Galaxy, which is a somewhat spherical region of stars that encompass this is the more visible and structural portion of the Galaxy. These globular clusters of stars get swept in the gravitational pulls of galaxies as they pass by and are entrapped in their Halos with many other astral bodies that get collected during the galaxy's lifetime.

49:39 Globular clusters are thought to not be part of the original makeup of galaxies and are believed to by many to be remnants from the era that involves the origin event of the universe due to them all being roughly around the same age. An estimation that has arrived at by measuring the light color and intensity as well as the mass of stars in question. A concept that I will expand upon in the next section and. That is what makes these. Clusters of stars so important to astronomers and those that look at questions on whether or not UFOs come from extraterrestrial sources. So this is a whole break off section that I that I wrote up. Are you guys getting anything from this? I don't think me or Jake are going to believe.

50:20 That me because I think space is fake and Jeremy and Jake because there's no way he believes in The Big Bang. But I'll just. I'll just stop for you. I believe that God spoke. The universe into existence, if you want to call that a Big Bang, you know, then it is what it is. But it certainly didn't come from nothing. It came from a creator. But but at the same time, I do believe the Earth is expanding from a singular point. So it is, you know, from the point of origin. But you know, how that happened, you know, remains to be seen. But yeah, I got something out of that. But I would, I would be curious. So I don't believe that the gravity that we experience here here on Earth is exclusively from the rotation of the Earth.

51:09 It is not. There has to be a lot that. Comes from the. Sun and so I would be curious as to what the gravitational differences would be on a planet that was in one of these globular clusters where there's so many gravitational forces much closer than we experienced here on Earth with the distance between our solar system and the next. If they were closer together, how would that affect gravity? I mean, would we've experienced, you know, 20 GS on a day-to-day basis where we could barely function or where we we adapt to be able to handle that amount of G's? Like what would that look like? That would be very interesting. Orbital lock and something we'll never know. It would, no. No, it would look like orbital. Lock right, so it was.

51:55 Explained. By why can I never remember anyone's name? The man's name anyway. So when the sun the sun exerts a. Star exerts. Gravitational force on a planet and it and it orbits and you have the moon, right? The reason we can't we only see one side of the moon is between the sun's gravitational field and the Earth's gravitational field. The the the moon is orbitally locked on the planet, so we only get 1 space. So when you have that many gravitational fields, it would orbit lock the planet. It wouldn't. It wouldn't rotate. It wouldn't care. Careful. Careful, because the our moon is an anomaly. It's not normal.

52:37 There's there's plenty of I just literally. Watched a Neil deGrasse Tyson video on I don't give a fuck what Neil deGrasse Tyson. Talks about that guy is that guy is the biggest fucking sellout. Then then he needs to explain what every other moon is in in our solar system and why they're not facially locked now. I mean, yes, the art, you know there Jeremy just got when heart. He was like, I don't give a fuck what that guy. Says he's talking about shit that's fake anyway so I mean. OK, there's, there's plenty of moons in our solar system. OK, Yeah, there's only one moon in our solar system that's locked in the way that our moon is.

53:18 That's our moon. It's the only one. Everything else. Rotates. Yes, it is so Pluto in its moon. Pluto. Pluto Space. Pluto is. Pluto isn't even considered a planet guy but it is they reinstate. They reinstated it. No, it's not on the. Elliptical plane I could have swore that they reinstated. Pluto, like a couple Pluto is literally not on the elliptical. Plane. Fuck you, Pluto's a planet anyway. In February 2020, sixth, a family. Of three ported sightings of to the big no. Like what I'm saying is like but. Pluto, like the face. The face of Pluto that faces its moon always faces, and the face of its moon that faces Pluto. Oh wait, they always face the exact same spot.

54:00 Like they never. They never change. So it's not. Pluto. Pluto is like. If Pluto has a moon, I don't know this for fact. In fact, I am pretty sure it's probably. I'm pretty sure it's. Pluto. I'm pretty sure it's just. Because. It doesn't fit your. Narrative doesn't mean you don't get to say it doesn't exist. No, no, no. It I, I don't, I don't go by. Narratives if you can prove me wrong and I will absolutely be like oh OK that's cool yeah hold on I'm I'm gonna try to find the. Source real fast, but astronomy changes. Super fast, you know you know that, right? Like, I mean how? Just just like you said. Just because. They're they're just because I don't give up. There was a point when total. Was not a move. Listen, I. I love planet stuff. It was so hold on. Yeah, I mean as you can.

54:43 See. I have a ton of write ups on astronomy stuff, I just never bring it up because I think it's going to bore people to death. That's fine. It's. Like, yeah. Pretty fucking boring. But like look not. Boring. It's just. Dumb. I I have some old textbooks. No, I'm. I'm right. So Pluto. And its largest moon car. Did you just Google something and tell me that you're right car? Runner mutually, tidally. Locked meaning the same face of Pluto always faces car on in the same face of car on always faces Pluto. So I'm not retarded, OK. Or maybe bleeped up that word. Let's not use that word. I'm not stupid. I knew what I was talking about. I I didn't Google it. I perplexed it first of all, so. But no like, did you?

55:25 Did you know that Pluto is literally? Smaller than our moon. OK, So what the fuck is a moon to Pluto? They're probably orbiting each other. It's the same thing as a binary star system like does. Hold on. If you have if you have two bodies. Orbiting each other, huh? This size dictate if something's a. Planet or a moon? That's what I'm saying. Like in in the vastics. Like given the size of the universe, does the fact that Pluto is smaller than our moon actually matter if its moon is in scale? Right. I'm just I'm just saying so below. Macrocosmic. The microcosm like I mean, I, I don't, I don't know this for a. Fact man, because I'd I'd never really looked at Pluto that much because I don't give a shit.

56:06 But if it doesn't air, that's why. No, Pluto is so fucking small. That if it did have a moon, it's they're probably gravitationally influencing each other as they're orbiting on a non elliptical orbit around the sun, right? They're it's probably rotating around a central point. Now I'm going to say I could be. Wrong, but I'm fairly certain that in order to become tidally locked you need to have the influence of 1/3 body's gravitational field. You can't be tidally locked based on to like. Like if this microphone in this bottle here were orbiting each other, they couldn't tidally lock each other. It would need the gravitational field of my monitor here in order to tidally lock it.

56:51 It it you need the third body? Have you ever heard of the third body problem? OK, well, you should probably look that up because it's completely unpredictable. It is one of the the questions that literally cannot be answered. Don't. And when you look at the third body problem, don't. You're going to get a whole bunch of stuff about the TV show, about the book. Ignore that. Ask what the actual third body problem is has to deal. With a three star. System A Tri solar system if you will, and it strictly has to strictly has to deal with how 3 gravitational bodies orbit each other in an unpredictable way about to end a relationship based off. Whether or not Pluto's big enough to be considered a planet, No way dude, this is fun.

57:34 This is fun. I'm educating CJ. Yeah, you're like, read it you. Read it out loud for the class CJ. Hold on, I got to read it to myself first. You got to read it out loud for the. Class. I want to know information. See how? Much it is to read. For oh OK, it's not that much all right in outer space, the three body problem is the challenge of predicting how three objects move when they all pull on each other with gravity. For example, a star, planet and a moon. In the two body case, like Earth and Sun, Newton's law gives neat close form orbits, ellipses, and parabolas. With three gravitating bodies, the equations of motion become so complicated and sets to do initial conditions. There's no single general formula that gives their positions for all time.

58:14 Tiny changes in starting position speeds can lead to wildly different future mode. But that doesn't contradict anything I just said. What it what I said is in order to become gravitation lock, you need a third body. Not that it always happens, it's just in order. Don't be tidally locked. You need the third body. Do not need a third body. In fact, the best way to become tidally locked is for two similar mass structures to be orbiting each other. Our moon is an anomaly. It is not normal. Well, I did have that. Backwards. OK, no. You're right, I know. But yeah, be humble A. Little bit. Damn, All right, we're. Ready to move on to the? 3rd briefing 1/3 body can.

58:56 Influence tidal locking, but it's not required. So we're both right. No, listen, you piqued my interest. I I don't give a shit about aliens, but I like this stuff. And now you got me looking at stuff so well if you want some very interesting reading. Material that's educational. Let me know and I will help you out. Jake's going to sleep. I know. All right. Jake, you ready to listen about? Big feet. Yeah, Bigfoot's Jake loves the big. Feets, he's going. To love the He's going to love this one because he's got a personal story to go along with it. Do I? Did Jake see a beautiful? Finally. Yeah. So calm down, calm down. Calm down in February 2026. Family, many of three reported a sighting to the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization, or BFRO, that's been making waves in the cryptozoology community.

59:41 The location approximately 11 miles northwest of Durant in Bryan County, Oklahoma. The witness or the witnesses, a family of three traveling along a power line easement. What they saw A tall, bipedal creature covered in dark hair walking upright across the clearing. The BFRO classified this as a Class A sighting. For those unfamiliar with Bfro's classification system, here's how it works. Class A sighting means the witness had a clear, unambiguous view of a creature that could not be misidentified as a known animal. These are reports where the observer saw the creature at close range and good lighting, and for long enough to rule out bears, large primates, or humans.

1:00:26 In costume, Class B sightings are less definitive. Possible encounters, vocalizations, footprints, or unclear glimpses that suggest a Bigfoot but don't provide enough detail to confirm it. Class A sightings are rare. They represent the most credible reports in the BFRO database, and this one has several elements that make it noteworthy. First, the location. Power line easements are well documented travel corridors for Bigfoot sightings across North America. Here's why that matters. Power line easements are long linear clearings cut through forest to make room for high voltage transmission lines. They provide open ground with relatively low vegetation, which makes travel easier for large animals. Deer, elk and bears use them, and according to researchers who track Bigfoot sightings, so do Sasquatch. These corridors offer a way to move between forested areas without dense underbrush.

1:01:21 They also provide sight lines, which means witnesses traveling along these easements are more likely to spot something moving across the clearing. Oklahoma, specifically has a long history of Bigfoot reports. The BFRO database lists dozens of sightings in that state. The clusters in the southeastern counties near the Wichita Mountains and along the Red River County where this sighting occurred sits in that region. It's heavily forested, sparsely populated, and bordered by the Red River to the South. It's exactly the kind of terrain that Bigfoot researchers considered prime habitat. Second, the witnesses, a family of three. Multiple witnesses reduce the likelihood of misidentification.

1:02:04 When three people see the same thing and agree on what they saw, it strengthens the credibility of the report. It rules out individual hallucination, fatigue, or even psychological suggestion. Now, the BFRL report doesn't provide a lot of additional detail. It doesn't mention whether the family attempted to photograph or film a creature. It doesn't describe vocalizations, unusual smells, or physical evidence like footprints. And that's significant because the absence of physical evidence is one of the biggest criticisms skeptics have against Bigfoot sightings. If you see a massive hair covered creature walking upright in broad daylight, why wouldn't you pull out? Your phone and record it. Why wouldn't you go back and look for tracks? The BFRO report doesn't answer those questions. It just documents what the family reported, which was a tall bipedal creature crossing a power line easement. But here's what makes this signing interesting from a cryptozoological perspective.

1:02:57 Big for reports are not random. They do cluster. You follow patterns, and when you map BFRO sightings across the United States, certain regions light up the Pacific Northwest, meaning Washington, Oregon, and Northern California has the highest concentration. But the second highest concentration is in the South to southeastern United States, particularly a region including the Appalachians, the Ozarks, and the Owichita Mountains. Oklahoma sits right in the middle of that second cluster, and power line easements consistently show up as signing locations. Researchers who study Bigfoot behavior patterns have noted that sightings along power lines, railroad tracks, and logging roads are disproportionately high compared to deep forest sightings. That suggests one of two things.

1:03:42 Either Bigfoot actively use these corridors for travel, which could indicate learned behavior planning and spatial awareness, or witnesses are more likely to see Bigfoot in open areas simply because there's less cover. In dense forests you could walk within 50 feet of a large animal and never see it, but in a clearing you have sight lines. Both exlanations are lausible. Now here's the broader context. Bigfoot sightings in 2026 are down compared to the early 2000's. The BFRO database shows a peak in reports around 2010, followed by a gradual decline. Some researchers attribute this to smartphone saturation. The argument is that if Bigfoot were real and as commonly seen as the report suggests, we'd have clear, high resolution video evidence by now. The absence of that evidence, despite everyone carrying a camera, suggests that either Bigfoot doesn't exist or the sightings are misidentifications. But others argue the opposite.

1:04:37 They say that as wilderness areas shrink due to development, Bigfoot populations are being pushed into more remote regions, making encounters rarer. There's also a social stigma factor. People who see something usually are less likely to report it publicly because they don't want to be ridiculed. They tell close friends or family, but they don't file an official report with the BFRO. So the decline in reports might not reflect a decline in sightings. It might just reflect the decline in willingness to report. Either way, this Oklahoma sighting is a reminder that Bigfoot reports haven't stopped. They're still happening, and they're still being documented by researchers who take them seriously. So here's the bottom line. A family of three reported a clear, close range sighting of a tall bipedal creature crossing a power line easement in Bryan County, Oklahoma. The BFRO classified it as a Class A encounter. The location fits known Bigfoot travel patterns, and while there's no physical evidence, the report adds to a long history of sightings in southeastern Oklahoma. So Jake, CJ, what do you make of this one? Does the power line corridor detail add credibility or is this just another anecdotal report that doesn't move the needle?

1:05:46 Yes, Good. OK, So what? Had happened. Was when I was driving from when I was driving. From California. To Wisconsin. Moving here from after getting out of the Navy. Start my new life here. I drove along the southern states through what was once Route 66, all the way across. I think it's the 40 now or something like that. But anyway, drove across the southern states because I was getting here in January and I didn't want to have to be delayed due to snow and all kinds of stuff. Which is good that I did that because actually one of the towns I drove through in Arizona the next week got hammered with snow.

1:06:29 Like it was actually pretty insane. But so this was 20 January 2024 when I got here. And basically what I did was I was, I drove through Oklahoma, I want to say, I think Oklahoma's right underneath Wisconsin. I drove right through Oklahoma and then I basically went straight north right into Wisconsin. So I did as much as I could in the southern states before I went up. But so there's this one of these days, I mean, this is day three of driving, I want to say. And at this point I'm, you know, I, I don't know, I don't know about anybody else, but I don't, I'm not glued to the vehicle in front of me when I'm driving. I tend to be pretty observant and I look around an awful lot. But so I'm just driving across country with the exact same like 20 semi trucks the entire way essentially. And so I'm going over an overpass and it's coming up and it's pulling right.

1:07:22 So I'm got this big wide curve, I'm going up this overpass, I'm going around and on this on the right hand side, there's trucks in front of me and trucks behind me and there's an opening. Where there isn't. Any trucks to my right hand side, I'm in the, I'm in like I think the middle lane of a three lane highway or something like that. But anyway, I'm, I'm going up or maybe it's 2 and I'm on the, the outermost. But so I'm going up and there's a space where I can look out and see the field to the right of me. And it's this large cow pasture essentially. And it's between two big tree Groves. And I see what looks like and keep in mind I'm glancing. So as I'm looking forward and I glance over, this is what I see and it looks like it looks like a like an 8 foot tall person, a Gilly suit is hauling ass across a field. And I'm like, I look and I'm like driving. So I mean, there's there's semi trucks in front of me. So I can't be sitting here like, oh, oh man, what's that? Slam my brakes or anything, right? I'm going to get killed.

1:08:25 So it's just this matter of like maybe 15 seconds where I'm just like, OK, that was weird. I glanced back over. I'm still seeing this thing focusing on the road. I'm glancing over. I'm doing this, glancing over until another truck pulls to my right and then I can't see anybody or can't see whatever it is anymore. And we go across the thing and we keep driving, right. So it took me a minute and I called Jeremy and I'm like, and he answered the phone. I think he's at work. And I'm like, Jeremy. So I need to tell you something. This is what I saw kind of helped walk me through this. And we kind of narrowed it down to where it was like, you know, what could it have been besides a Bigfoot, right?

1:09:06 Because it's not like it's not like Jeremy's interaction or like these people seeing this thing, you know, just walk out, you know, kind of stretch, stretch, scratch its butt and then walk into the woods again. This was very, very quick. And so we narrowed it. We kept narrowing it down, narrowing it down. And so barring A7 or 8 foot tall Olympic athlete in full dead Sprint wearing a ghillie suit running across a cow pasture, it must have been a Bigfoot, right? At first I thought that it was a tree that was like this, which is strange. And then it was going like this and it was like full large strides clearing this crazy distance in this 1015 seconds. I was able to glance, glance, glance, glance, glance. Before I couldn't.

1:09:52 It wasn't visible anymore because of the vehicle vehicles around me. And so it was like, it was interesting. And you know, I would be lying if I said I wasn't observing all the things on the sides of the road as I was driving. Not only because of roadkill, like on that drive was the first time I actually saw a roadkill black bear, which was nuts, right? It was like correct. Pennsylvania, they're everywhere out here. They're. They're everywhere up here now too, but. It just like it. It blew my. Mind, and this is after what, three years of doing this show? I've never seen anything like that before. I heard vocals, I guess you could say a Class B + a footprint in Dinky Creek, California when I was when I was camping out there. I actually sent the picture of the footprint to Jeremy, which was super clearly defined as you could see the shape of it because of how much dust was over there. Because that whole area is like super dehydrated, right? It just dried out.

1:10:47 But of course it was only one footprint because if it was tracking through the middle of the campsite, of course we had a bunch of kids with us. So all my brothers, friends kids, and they were just kicking up all the dirt and little kid footprints all over the place. So it just completely like you couldn't see anything else except for this one that was directly behind my tent. And then past that was a bunch of pine needles and stuff like that, right. And it you couldn't get a good sinking effect into the ground because it was just dry dirt, you know, but that with a bunch of vocalizations where a bunch of tree knockings, yelling and things like that, like everyone in the campsite shut up. Everyone was listening, holding their breaths.

1:11:29 And there was, you could hear another campsite, probably in the ballpark of, I don't know, a quarter mile from us. And they were hammered drunk, playing their music super loud, screaming and all this sort of stuff. And then you hear this, the loudest guttural scream mixed in with tree knockings. And everyone just shut up and. I'm like trying to take. A breath in my tent like this is freaking crazy. I can't believe that. And the next day everyone's like, did you hear that crap? Like they're freaking out, right? Everyone heard it. Everyone that I was there with heard it, but this is the first time I actually saw anything. And, you know, and I did the right thing and I didn't jump on it and get on the Internet. You're so Bigfoot.

1:12:11 You know, I hit up Jeremy and I was like, hey, help walk me through this because I think that I could have been fooling myself that, you know, help me out here. So barring that, you know, Olympic athlete, full dead Sprint wearing a ghillie suit that also happens to be, you know, in the seven foot, 8 foot range because it was it was big. It was way bigger than the cows or at least taller than the cows that was running past, right? That's what I think it was. So it doesn't surprise me that this would happen also in Oklahoma. For what reason the sightings have decreased in the last 20 years, 26 years, I don't know, but I'll tell you what. Like. I, I didn't even have the wherewithal at the time to take a screenshot of my GPS coordinates.

1:12:55 That's kind of how like struck I was by this thing. And I like to put that out there and be like, oh, why don't people take out their phones and take a picture and all this sort of stuff. I was so struck by the oddity of this that when I'm driving and I have to drive, you know, two hours back and forth to work or, you know, sometimes I go on road trips and stuff. If I'm going by like a cool fishing location that I want to check out later, I'll zoom out on my, on my Google or my Apple Maps. I'll take a screenshot so I know where that location was. So then I can drop a pin and then go back later, right. So I'm not like messing around on my, my phone while I'm driving, but I'm just like real quick, like this screenshot. I didn't even have the wherewithal to take a screenshot like that while I was experiencing it so that I could look back and be like, this is where it was at because I was so struck by how odd this was and out of place it was.

1:13:43 So at this rate, it doesn't surprise me that when people see something crazy that they're not like immediately, oh, pull up my phone, take a picture of it because you kind of get in this weird sensory, Even if it was like an alien sighting or UFO or whatever it is, it's so out of place that it kind of you go into lizard brain essentially. And just like, oh, that's weird, you know, so it, it makes sense to me why we wouldn't have more photographic evidence or if that we did that, it'd be super blurry because maybe they're doing this, they're freaking out their bodies going to the lizard brain mode or whatever it is, or they just don't have it because they're just like, it's so out of place. You're just kind of locked into observing it and your brain kind of goes into that fight or flight mode versus this whole like, Oh, here's the evidence I've been looking for my whole life, you know, Well, it's like that, that alien. Video I sent you guys years ago, it's only 5 or 6 minutes of watching it before I was like, maybe I should record this, right?

1:14:43 Yeah. I I just want to know when. You guys were going over like when you when Jeremy was walking you through whether or not this was a Bigfoot sighting. Did either of you confirm whether or not Shaq was playing airsoft that day? No, we didn't, unfortunately. I should have should have done that so it Gary Cross reference barring all of those things I said. And Shaq. Right. Nobody. Nobody checked Shack Tracker? Now that there aren't. Unreasonably. Tall people, there's a guy, there's a, a college student in my men's group Bible studies on Friday mornings. That's 69, right? It's crazy how tall he is. I'm 61 and I'm still like, Oh my gosh, bro, you know, like, like looking up at this, this kid, right?

1:15:25 It, it's, it's so weird to see someone that's that tall. I mean, there's plenty of people that are that are abnormally tall at all, but and people like to run and all the sorts of I'm not going to discredit and say that that's impossible. But then also wearing what appears to be a ghillie suit is kind of strange. I'm saying it's like it in some place in some corners of the universe that could exist that people somebody likes to go full dead sprinting through his own cow pasture. He's unreasonably tall and he likes to wear a ghillie suit because maybe I don't know who's squirrel hunting or something like that, Deer hunting in his own fields. I. Maybe, I don't know, some eagles. Have eyes, redneck. Out in the middle of his field and you're like, oh look, it's fucking Bigfoot.

1:16:08 He's making fun of him and maybe, maybe he just knows. Because there's an overpass there that he's going to get a rise as somebody. I'm just, that's all that is possible. That's genius. There's also the. Percentage. Where that isn't possible. And what was possible was that I saw a Bigfoot. Right now, it's not nothing. It's nothing to write home about. I'm not going to, you know, it didn't change my outlook on life. This this thing that I had, right? It wasn't this odd moment, but it was still very strange. And so it's interesting that here we have another one that came out of that area and or at least the state of it. I, I couldn't tell you where this happened. I could probably, I could probably get you down to the, I could probably go through my hotel routes and all that stuff and get you to the highway that I was on. But I'm not certain that I could point out the even city that I was at, right.

1:16:57 And it's just like I drove through so much in four days. But it makes sense to me why they would see it and they would also not have photographs because it was just like, like you said with that alien thing. It you just get so struck by how strange and out of place something like that is when you're not expecting it, that I totally understand it. You know, I, I, I tend to not go into lizard brain mode during high stress situations, which is good considering I was in the military. But I mean, I didn't do anything crazy in the military. I wasn't in combat or anything. But if someone was hurt or there was a, you know, a stressful situation or some danger, I didn't go into lizard brain mode. But in that circumstance, I totally at least went into the point where I'm like, I don't know how to react to this besides calling my buddy and being like, hey, we talk about weird stuff all the time.

1:17:49 I need to tell, tell you something weird. You know what's going on here, You know, pretty. That's pretty cool though. That's pretty cool. I wouldn't, I wouldn't discount the these people's claims either because like, unless you have something exorbitant, like, do you, you guys know the story of the guy who tried to blame Bigfoot for murdering his, the the stripper off the top of the waterfall? I actually do. Know what you're talking about? I don't know the details, but yes, I've heard of it. So we made fun of that on crypto technical. Years ago, like we did a whole form of audio drama for that to make fun of it. But anyway, a guy blames Bigfoot for murdering a stripper that he murdered right. So like aside, he claims but it but it wasn't like. The Bigfoot killed her.

1:18:30 It was no, he said he told on the top of the waterfall. He said the Bigfoot heated her off the top of the waterfall. Maybe we're not talking about the same thing so. Did he go to prison for murder? He sure was that for the Bigfoot. No, no. He definitely he. Definitely went to jail. But he his his defense was that Bigfoot killed her, not him. So aside from claims that are so exorbitant like that, I like to bare minimum give people the benefit of the doubt. Like they say, like I saw because like I've seen two UFOs live through a demonic haunting, live through a standard haunting, and I've had a genuine religious experience. And if I were to explain that to a number of people, they'll tell me I'm a liar, Right? Right.

1:19:11 So I know how it feels to have had genuine experiences and have people tell you you're full of shit. So I don't like when people come through with something that's not ridiculous. To completely. Discount them, right? So if they're like, I saw this and it was over there in the field, like it would be insane for me to sit here and tell Jake right now like you didn't see a Bigfoot. You just saw Shaq. He was playing airsoft and you're an idiot, right? Like that would be nuts. Rather than be like, all right, well, you definitely saw something way out of the ordinary, whether it was some corn fed hillbilly out there who just grew to a mountainous man size or a Bigfoot.

1:19:51 You definitely saw something. And there's no reason to think that maybe it wasn't a Bigfoot, right? Like right, it could have been, it could have been. So I, I, I would like to say that these people are probably they probably saw something and there's a good chance it was a Bigfoot. I like that. Yeah, I agree. Well, plus I mean. I like to be really skeptical too. So it's like, and I know what pareidolia is and things like that, or I'm not going to see something in the trees be like, it's the predator, right? It's just like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's good to not. Immediately say they're lying, right? Like like it's OK to be on the fence. Be like, hey, like I'd like some proof, but I'm not saying you're lying, but I would like some proof. Like there's no, I think that I think that that's reasonable, right? There's nothing wrong with that.

1:20:34 But just automatically off the cuff being like, hey, this thing that you said that you didn't really give me anything extraordinary, right? Like there was, there was no details in there because like, so like one of the things with a liar is they'll give you way too many details, right? The more details a person gives you about a situation, the more likely they are that they're lying about it. So when you get these sort of like vague ish, like they're detailed, but they're not hyper detailed. They're like, it was big, maybe 8-9 foot, I don't really know. It was kind of dark, but it was huge and it grunted and it ran like that's not too much detail, right?

1:21:15 So there's no reason to be like you're a fucking liar, right? Maybe maybe it's a reason to get a team out there and try to go see it for yourself and and and trying to prove it, but it's not necessarily grounds to assume they're lying automatically now. I mean, if they're describing like it's cracked fingernails and elbows and like the way the back of its knees looked like all right, maybe maybe you're not being whether it had a red rocket or it was. Hanging Dong, you know, right? I mean, come. On. That's probably a detail that you would you would notice though. Come on, that's the first place I'm looking. Away from it and really getting. Up in there, right? That's the first place I'm looking, Pat. Pat, what is that?

1:21:55 Patterson, Patterson, Patterson Gimlin. It's a Patterson Gimlin. Like am I looking for boobies or? Wieners out here like we're we're definitely that's the first place we're going right? True story. You got breasts, you got a. Wiener, we're we're looking. I'm identifying male or female. We're assuming gender. Bigfoot. I saw a. Bigfoot one time and it. Had 26 hairs on its right kneecap and six of them were two and 3/8 inches long. Right, I'm calling you a liar 100. Percent in that situation, but like, oh man, I was out with my family and we were by this field and we looked out in this field and this huge fucking creature ran by, but it was standing up and it was crazy and I was very scared. Like there's there's no reason to not believe that story. I'm still in my pee pants.

1:22:36 I'm still in my pee pants. That's a movie reference. I I did a movie reference that. You've seen it first. Of all that, you've seen a movie. Second of all that, I have no idea what you're talking about. I can't remember what movie it's from. It's from Talladega nights. No, that would be why I don't like Will Ferrell. That would be why I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, the little, the little kid when he's like. We're throwing chips 4 metals off the bridge. Yeah, he's like, he yelled at me and I pissed my pants. I'm still in my pee pants. I've I made it. Through 30. Minutes of Talladega. Nights I I really don't like Will Ferrell. I don't think he's funny. I think he's a lyric. Yeah, not. Not my brand of comedy. I think there's everyone around him that was. Funny.

1:23:21 Well, I mean, he has such a huge following. There's got to be a reason for that, right? It's just not my brand of comedy. But, you know, I I I could see like, people just being like, oh, yeah, I saw the Bigfoot. Like, that's kind of cool. Like, I hope they did see a Bigfoot. Jeremy, what do you think? What do you? Mean what do you think about them if they saw the Bigfoot I mean, I think that the the. Fact that it's being reported by three different people, I think that goes a long ways. The power line highway aspect of it is a very common detail and a lot of Bigfoot reports, a lot of Bigfoot reports. Shit, I've I've got maybe 30 if not more Bigfoot books back here. I'm strictly just the topic of Bigfoot, not including the ones that touch on Bigfoot.

1:24:06 And I would say probably 75 to 80% of those talk at least at some point about the aspect of the power line highways. It's a very, very, very, very common place for people to make reports. Animals in general tend. To follow the path of least resistance. Exactly. You know, that's why the hunting lane I have in my backyard is so Dang good because it's an established trail and it doesn't matter how many deer I drop in that same exact path. They follow it every single time because it goes from the cornfields over there through my property down to the dry Creek bed where they follow it out to the lake. And they just cross right there every single time without fail. And it's a perfect place to drop them. And it doesn't even matter if it smells like deer death or if they can sense that sort of stuff. The next day, another one will come walking right through there, stepping in the blood like they just, you know, it's, it's the path that they follow.

1:25:07 And why walk through trees and expend an enormous amount of energy or going through brush and stuff like that if you can take a path that's already been cut, cut out because we cut pads for our power lines and stuff. Like it just makes sense, right? Yeah. I mean it also makes. Sense that humans as as humans, that most of the reports are coming from these wide open areas. Mostly because that's where we are, right? We're not typically in the deep woods. We are in the fringes or in these massive open areas because that's where we're most comfortable at. That's where our line of sight is best.

1:25:48 That's where our senses are going to perform the best. It is not going to perform the best in dense woods. It's just not like I said in my script, you can be 50 feet away from one of these things or, or a bear or a deer or you know, something else, a cat in a tree. And you would never know. A lot of people wouldn't if it's not firing off on at least two of your senses, if not more. I mean, a lot of people will, will walk through the woods, you know, that are completely ignorant of a lot of things that occur. And they'll, they'll smell something, you know, and they'll be like, oh man, you smell like skunk. But like one of the the the most common reports of of Bigfoot encounters are it's just this horrendous stench of body odor, skunk, decaying flesh, swampy. Smells.

1:26:40 But somebody who's not aware of that would walk through and be like, oh man, there's a skunk around, right? Well, let's be real, they don't exactly have access. To Doctor Squatch, what do you think they're going to smell like? I mean, maybe they do. You never know. They. Could they could be sponsored? I mean, I one of the deer I. Got this last hunting season. I mean dude, that thing had a stink to it. Like not, not because it was rotten or bad, but it was just like they don't, they don't bathe, right. They don't bathe regularly. And and that has short little deer hair. Imagine, you know, if you could imagine what a a bear smells like. I'm sure they're pretty rank. And then you're healing. You get even further into, you know, something with even denser hair or longer hair. I'm sure there's mold issues or mildew and like, you know, whatever they eat just gets trapped under there.

1:27:25 Like I'm sure it's just horrible. I I took out a Groundhog. Once and that thing smelled so foul, like of course, a gigantic bipede. Is going to. Smell real bad if they're not out there with some Dial soap. They don't, they don't have access to that shit like they would have to. They would have to find like like what the old natives did, right? Like they would have to find like where lie is being dispensed into a river and bathed downstream from that. And even then, you're still not going to smell that great. You're gonna have a very neutral foresty smell. And if you've been running around out there and you don't exactly have speed stick on you, you're still going to smell bad at the end of the day anyway. And we are the adverse. You get to the.

1:28:07 People. Like me who have Doctor Squatch and I, I use pine tar deodorant so that I smell like the woods. I'm a wood Darryl bourbon guy. Wood Barrel Bourbon. But I mean like if you want to know what these Bigfoot smell like, just go to your local comic book shop. Those guys smell like it. You'll know. Right, you smell that. And we? Lost. Half the audience, very nice, and I'm one of those guys in the comic book shop. It's just I have very good hygiene, you know? But like I, I listen. Listen, Mama say I smoke good up. Until recently, I was a real. Big, big boy, you got to have good hygiene if you want attention from women. Just saying. You can't. You can't be one of those comic books. There's a reason those guys are single, you know? I'm so thin.

1:28:52 The stick the the stink. Doesn't stick to me. There's nothing for it to fall into, you know? It just falls off. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I had some crevices. I'm not going to lie to you, I was crevasse and. 10. Pounds. We are an hour and 40 minutes. Let's go. Let's get going guys. Spent freaking two hours. Talking about black holes and it was interesting. Don't be a Dick. All right, you guys ready? Finally, we hit a. Topic that doesn't. Suck. Like I was so excited. What do you mean I have not? Given you a bad topic since you've been back, I, I I. Do not care about aliens. I can't tell you how much I don't care about aliens.

1:29:32 I just acknowledge they exist and I think all the conspiracy around them is nonsense. Like you're going to get me. Started. That's what you're going to do. You're going to wow me, all right. Well, you at least be on my ET hammer. Killing crew when they come. No, no dude. Like. If they have the ability to get here, they're far more technologically advanced than we are. I'm not playing that game like I would have been the one that's left behind. I don't. I want to. Be the one that's allowed to live inside the house, not the one that sleeps in the shed. Like you know what I mean? So I'm kissing ass when they show up. Like fine, I'll kill them with a claw. Hammer, you'll go ahead and do that. Yeah, Could you? Could you imagine? You. You.

1:30:13 You have this technology that can shoot you across space in the blink of an eye, and then you get here to Earth and you get mauled by a hammer, right? You just get bopped by. Yeah. Jake and his ball pain like like like. And 3D printed it's not even. From Home Depot, the knowledge that I have. Firearms but just want it to be slow and painful. It's like this is. What we're up against. That's it. Abort. Pull out. All right, all right, we got to move on. Jake pulls out his red rocket when the aliens. Show up. That's right. Old tilt. Boxer's boots. Hammer, let's go.

1:30:54 He told you not to stop here, Carl. All right, we're the Philadelphia of the entire. Galaxy, that's why we don't really see them that often, only when they need to get their fentanyl. Heck yeah. I'll take that title. Yo, I know a place. I got the plug. All right, all right, all right. For real now. All right, let's. Deep dive with a topic that we touched on a few episodes ago, but since has had a major realization breakthrough. On February 1st, 2026, A-Team of researchers published a paper in Frontiers in Science that carries a warning most people aren't paying attention to.

1:31:44 The title of the paper is straightforward Consciousness Science. Where are we, where are we going, and what if we get there? But the message is urgent. We are facing an existential risk, not from climate change, not from nuclear war, not even from AI taking over the world in the Terminator sense. The risk that we are building technologies that could create, alter or destroy consciousness, and we're doing it without understanding what consciousness actually is. The lead author is Professor Axel Clearments from the University Libre Brook. Sales are Brussels in Belgium. He's joined by researchers from institutions across the globe, Tel Aviv University, the University of Sussex and the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research. And their central argument is simple but profound. Humanity is racing ahead with artificial intelligence, brain computer interfaces, and lab grown brain tissue, and we have no reliable way to detect whether any of these systems are conscious.

1:32:48 We don't know if AI can be aware. We don't know if brain organoids or clusters of neurons grown in a Petri dish are experiencing anything. We don't know if coma patients who appear unconscious are actually trapped inside their own minds, fully aware but unable to communicate. And because we don't know, we might be creating suffering we can't measure. We might be destroying minds we can't detect. We might be crossing ethical lines we don't even realize exist. Professor Clearmans says this quote, Consciousness science is no longer a purely philosophical pursuit. It has real implications for every facet of society and for understanding what it means to be human. So let's break this down.

1:33:29 What is consciousness? Why don't we understand it? And what are the technologies that are forcing this issue to the forefront right now? Consciousness is one of the oldest and most difficult problems in science and philosophy. It's been called the hard problem by philosopher David Chalmers. Here's what makes it hard. We can measure brain activity. We can map neural networks. We can identify which regions the brain light up when you see a color, hear a sound, or feel pain. But none of that explains why those physical processes produce subjective experience. Why does seeing red feel like something? Why does pain hurt? Why is there a you inside your head experiencing the world instead of your brain just processing information like a computer without any inner awareness? The gap between physical brain activity and subjective experience is what scientists call the hard problem of consciousness, and after decades of research, we still don't have a definitive answer.

1:34:25 There are multiple competing theories, however, and they fundamentally disagree about where consciousness comes from, how it works, and what kinds of systems can have it. Let me walk you through some of the major theories. Theory one, Global Workspace Theory. Now Global Workspace Theory, or GWT, was developed by cognitive scientist Bernard Bars and has been championed by researchers like Stanislaus Deheny. The basic idea is this. The brain is made-up of many specialized modules that process information unconsciously. Vision, hearing, memory, language, they all work in parallel, processing data in the background. But consciousness happens when information from one of these modules gets broadcast to a global workspace, a kind of central hub in the brain where different systems can access it. Think of it like a stage in a theater. Most of the brain's activity happens backstage, unconscious processing, reflexes, automatic responses. But when something becomes important enough, it gets brought onto the stage, lit up, and made available to the whole audience.

1:35:32 That's consciousness, the spotlight, the broadcast. According to GWT, consciousness is what allows the brain to coordinate different processes, make decisions, and respond flexibly to new situations. And here's the key point. GWT suggests that consciousness happens in the prefrontal cortex, the front part of the brain involved in reasoning, planning, and decision making. If that's true, then consciousness requires a certain level of brain complexity. It requires the ability to broadcast information across different regions, and it might be unique to systems with that specific architecture. But GWT has a problem. It doesn't explain why broadcasting information creates objective experience. It describes A mechanism, but it doesn't solve the hard problem. Now, Theory 2 is integrated information theory, and information theory, or IIT, was developed by neuroscientist Julio Tannoni.

1:36:26 IIT takes a completely different approach. It says consciousness isn't about specific brain regions or broadcasting mechanisms. It's about integration, the idea that consciousness arises when a system integrates information in a way that can't be broken down into independent parts. The more integrated the system, the more consciousness it is. It uses a mathematical measure called Phi to quantify this interrogation. A system with hi-fi has a lot of consciousness, a system when lo fi has little or none. And here's the radical part. IIT suggests that consciousness isn't limited to brains. Any system that integrates information could be conscious to some degree.

1:37:10 That means a brain organoid could be conscious. An AI system could be conscious. Even a thermostat, in theory, could have a tiny sliver of consciousness if it integrates information in the right way. Now, Tanani and his supporters would say that simple systems like thermostats have such lofi that their consciousness is negligible, basically zero. But the theory implies that consciousness exists on the spectrum, and it's not exclusive to biological organisms. Now that's a huge claim, and it's controversial. IIT has been called pseudoscience by some researchers because its core predictions are difficult or maybe even impossible to test empirically.

1:37:50 How do you measure Phi in a living brain? How do you confirm that a system with hi-fi is actually experiencing something? But IIT remains one of the most influential theories of consciousness, and it's heavily sighted in discussions about AI and brain organoids. Now theory 3 is the higher order thought theories. Higher order thought theories Hots take yet another approach. These theories say that consciousness happens when the brain has thoughts about its own mental states. In other words, you're not just seeing red, you're aware that you're seeing red. You're not just feeling pain, you're aware that you're in pain. Consciousness, according to Hots, is metacognition.

1:38:33 It's the brain reflecting on itself. This theory has some appeal because it explains why humans seem more conscious than, say, insects. Humans have complex metacognitive abilities. We think about our thoughts, we plan, we imagine, we self reflect. But Hots have a problem too. They imply that animals without metacognitive abilities aren't conscious. And that feels wrong. When you look into a dog's eyes, it seems pretty clear that there's someone home. The dog is experiencing the world even if it's not reflecting on that experience in a human like way. So hots might explain human consciousness, but they struggled to account for consciousness and simpler organisms. Now theory 4 are the recurrent processing and predictive processing theories. Recurrent processing theories suggest that consciousness arises from feedback loops in brain when sensory information comes in.

1:39:24 Say you see a tree. It doesn't just travel forward through the visual system. It gets processed, then sent back to earlier stages, creating loops of activity refine and enrich the perception. Consciousness, according to this view, is the result of those recurrent loops. It's the brain checking its own predictions against incoming data, constantly updating its model of the world. This theory has gained traction in recent years, especially with the rise of predictive processing models and neuroscience. The idea is that the brain is a prediction machine. It's constantly generating hypothesis about what's out there, and consciousness is what happens when those. Those predictions become stable and coherent. But again, this theory describes A mechanism. It doesn't fully explain why that mechanism produces subjective experience.

1:40:12 So where does this leave us? We have at least four major theories of consciousness, and none of them agree. They disagree about where consciousness happens in the brain. They disagree about whether consciousness requires specific structures or whether it's a property of information itself. They disagree about whether animals, AI, or brains can be conscious. And because they disagree, we don't have a reliable test for consciousness. We can measure brain activity, we can track neural patterns, but we can't definitively say yes, this system is conscious, or no, it's not. And that's the problem. Because right now, in 2026, we're building technologies that could create conscious systems or destroy them, and we're doing it blind. So let's talk about the specific technologies that are forcing the issue, one being artificial intelligence.

1:40:57 AI systems are getting more sophisticated every year. Larger language models like ChatGPT, Grok and Claude and others can hold conversations, solve problems, and generate creative work that feels eerily human. But are they conscious? Most AI researchers say no. Current AI systems are just pattern matching machines. They don't have subjective experience. They don't feel anything. They process inputs and generate outputs, but there's no inner awareness. But here's the problem. We don't actually know that. If consciousness is about information interrogation, as IIT suggests, then it's possible that sufficiently complex AI systems could develop consciousness without us realizing it. And if that's true, we might be creating and deleting conscious minds every time we train a new model or shut down a server. Some researchers are taking this seriously. There are now working groups dedicated to studying AI consciousness.

1:41:50 They're trying to develop tests that could detect whether an AI system is aware, But so far there's no consensus. And in the absence of a reliable test, we're left guessing two brain organoids. Brain organoids are lab grown clusters of human brain cells. Scientists grow them from stem cells and they self organize into structures that resemble parts of a developing human brain. These organoids are being used to study brain development, test drugs, and model neurological diseases. They're incredibly valuable for research, but here's the ethical question. Are they conscious? Some organoids contain millions of neurons. They generate electrical activity that looks like brain waves. In some cases, they respond to stimuli in ways that suggest coordinated neural activity.

1:42:34 So is there someone in there? Is a brain organoid experiencing something we don't know? And if we don't know, then we might be growing conscious tissues and labs, subjecting it to experiments, and then destroying it without ever realizing we're causing suffering. The paper, published in Frontiers in Science, calls this one of the most urgent ethical questions in neuroscience right now, three being brain computer interfaces. Companies like Neurolink, Synchron and others are developing brain computer interfaces, or Bcis, that allow direct communication between the brain and external devices. The goal is to help paralyzed patients, control prosthetic limbs, communicate through thought, or even restore lost senses. But BC is raise profound questions about consciousness. If you hook a brain up to a computer and the computer starts processing information alongside the brain, where does consciousness begin and end?

1:43:31 Is the person still fully themselves or have they become a hybrid, part biological, part digital? If you remove the interface, does part of their consciousness get deleted? These aren't hypothetical questions. These technologies are being tested in humans right now. And four colon patients and disorders of consciousness. This is where the papers warning becomes most immediate. Right now in hospitals around the world, there are patients who appear unconscious. They don't respond to commands, they don't open their eyes. They show no outward signs of awareness. But F MRI and EEG studies have shown that approximately 25% of these patients are actually conscious. They're aware, they can hear, they can think, but they can't move or communicate. Researchers call this covert awareness, and it's been detected using brain imaging techniques where patients are asked to imagine specific tests like playing tennis, are walking through their house, and their brain activity shows clear, deliberate responses.

1:44:25 These people are trapped inside their own bodies, and for years doctors have been making end of life decisions about them based on the assumption that they're not aware. The Frontiers in Science paper argues that this is a moral catastrophe. They're potentially ending the lives of conscious people because we lack the tools to detect their awareness. So here's the existential risk. If we create AI systems that are conscious and we don't realize it, we might be creating and destroying minds on a massive scale. If we grow brain organoids that are conscious and we don't realize it, we might be torturing tissue in labs. If we build brain computer interfaces without understanding how they affect consciousness, we might be fragmenting, merging, or erasing people's sense of self. And if we fail to detect consciousness in coma patients, we're making life and death decisions based on incomplete information.

1:45:13 Professor Clearman's said this quote. The consequences of getting this wrong are profound. We could be committing ethical violations on the scale we've never imagined. And he's right. But here's the flip side. If we do self consciousness, if we develop reliable tests that can detect awareness in AI, brain, organoids, animals or patients, it would transform society. It would change medicine. We could identify which coma patients are conscious and give them a way to communicate. It would change animal welfare. We could determine which animals are capable level of suffering and adjust how we treat them accordingly. It would change AI development. We could build ethical guidelines around creating and terminating AI systems based on whether they're conscious. It would change the laws.

1:45:53 Questions about personhood rights and moral responsibility would have to be re evaluated. And it would change our understanding of what it means to be a human. Because it consciousness isn't unique to humans. If it exists on the spectrum, if it can emerge in artificial systems, if it's a property of information itself, then the boundary between us and them starts to blur. The paper does propose several steps forward. First, more funding for consciousness research. Right now it's a niche field. It needs to become a priority. Second, adversarial collaborations. Researchers who support different theories need to design experiments that could prove one theory wrong and another right. That's how science makes progress. Third, interdisciplinary work.

1:46:37 Consciousness research needs input from neuroscience, philosophy, AI, ethics, and law. It can't be solved by 1 field alone. Fourth, public engagement. People need to understand what's at stake. This isn't just an academic debate. It's about the future of AI medicine and what we consider morally acceptable. And 5th, humility. We need to admit that we don't know what we're doing. We're building powerful technologies about understanding their full implications, and we need to slow down, ask the hard questions, and make sure we're not causing harm. So here's the bottom line. Scientists are warning that we're facing existential risk because we're creating consciousness faster than we can understand it. We're building AI that might be aware.

1:47:18 We're growing brain tissue that might be suffering, we're developing brain computer interfaces that could alter the nature of self, and we're making life and death decisions about coma patients without knowing if they're conscious or not. We don't have reliable tests. We don't have consensus on what consciousness actually is, and we don't have ethical frameworks that account for the technologies we're building. The hard problem with consciousness isn't just a philosophical puzzle anymore. It's a practical, urgent moral crisis. And if we don't solve it, or at least acknowledge it, we might be committing ethical catastrophes we can't even see. So Jake, CJ, what do you think? Are we moving too fast? Should we pause AI development, brain organoid research and BC is until we understand consciousness or is that impossible?

1:48:03 Are these technologies already too far warm to stop? Every last ounce of that was a pile of. Bullshit. What do you mean? My gosh, what? Do you know so they? Are assessing consciousness based off of physical science solely. Things they can measure, things they can graph, things that they can see and draw and illustrate. When the reality is that consciousness in itself is not a physical form. We as people exist in a consciousness as beings of light, or maybe in Jake's case, a soul. The brain itself is a tool that allows us to interact within the third dimension while we are here doing whatever it is we're designed to do and learn the things we're designed to learn before we move on to a plane that we can't even begin to imagine.

1:48:48 There's no reason to even begin to try to explain what consciousness is rather than accept it for what it is, right? We are an experience and the things that we are here and doing and and learning, it's all about attainment of the higher truths and the higher self. And part of the higher truth is never going to explain what consciousness is because we just are, if that makes any sense to you. So the fact that they're solely trying to explain consciousness through physical science rather than assessing the spiritual end of things doesn't make any sense at all. But that's what humans do, is that they?

1:49:29 They, I, I don't know, maybe God did it put inside of us a desire to know what we can't know or what we shouldn't know. You know, maybe that's, maybe that goes to the fall of humanity. Adam and Eve were perfectly content with what they knew and what they didn't know until they were tricked into sinning against God, right? Maybe that's what caused that or, you know, or God put us in us a sense of adventure and of discovery. And, you know, I, I, I don't know what it is, but regardless, that's how we're wired. So, yeah, I mean it. I, I agree that it would be that it's a futile attempt to learn something that can't be learned. But at the same time, I can understand that that's what we're designed to do.

1:50:17 Or at least now it makes sense that we're designed to do it. But it doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't even begin to consider the spiritual aspect right? Like so like the biblical sense where we talk about heaven and earth, right, where when you pass on, you can potentially go to heaven, purgatory, hell, whatever that is, right? In the Christian sense. Well, that would be a plane of existence that we can't even actually begin to imagine because that would be God's realm, right? And within God's realm, there was a nothingness at some point before the word was and the universe came to be right in in that realm is where consciousness exists, right? We can't even begin to imagine what that looks like.

1:50:59 And there's only one way to find out. And none of us are going to be able to come back and tell us that, except in your biblical sense. We got one guy who's supposed to come back and tell us that, right? Well, not necessarily, because. I do believe there is credibility to near death experiences. I mean, there's a guy named John Burke who is a Christian guy. He became a Christian through documenting near death experiences. I think he recorded 2500 cases on all 7 continents and found that there is something after after death and there is. And they weren't just they were medically recognized near death experiences where there was heart stoppage, there was traumatic brain injury, there was things like that that actually causes people to die and some people coming back after a matter of days, not, you know, minutes and talking about what they'd experienced. And he researched that.

1:51:52 I do want to get that guy on here. That could be fascinating. But so there there is examples of what is after this. But I also agree that there will probably never be a definitive answer on what exactly consciousness is, although we could get some pretty good guesses right. But even in the concept of like the. NDE right? And in the concept of eternity as a whole, even days having been dead is an infinitesimally small amount of time that it would take to fully experience the plane beyond the third dimension that we currently exist in, right, right.

1:52:34 So maybe you got a maybe you got a peek like if you think about the next stage as a big thick book, maybe you got a peek at the title page through an end. Right sure right. So you. You got to take a. Look at something, but you have absolutely no idea what really it contains. There's no way. There's no way those those individuals. That they were actually experiencing all the things that people who are there permanently experience, right? Like, right, right. They're they're. The colors that you. Couldn't, you know, express and things like that? But who's to say that they weren't experiencing? Yeah, unless only had a snapshot like. You're saying, right? Unless you buy into Rebirth, right? Like I, I, I think that it's possible that we experience rebirth until we learn the lessons and achieve the higher truths and the attainment of the higher self that were intended to achieve, achieve, and then we ascend to the next, the next stage, right? I, I think that that's completely possible. But regardless, when we're talking about like the whole eternity in the realm on which God exists, even like I said, like days, like you can't experience that in those days times and let alone experience that and come back with comprehension enough to explain it to anybody, right? That's not, that's beyond the imagination. So I, I, I, I don't, I don't think that any of this stuff that solely relies on physical science is going to be reliable in defining, explaining and and

1:54:06 and and fully comprehending what consciousness in itself is. It was like that guy who however long ago said the like, like if it's like pop culture, right, 21 grams leaves when you die, blah, blah, blah, whatever. That's it was. It wasn't. It was. Yeah, six people in inconsistent study, whatever, whatever, regardless of that weight is lost upon death, right. And if we think about what I said previously in other episodes is that like matter doesn't actually exist. It's vibrating particles that imitate what matter would be, right? And then so we experienced the third dimension based on those vibrations.

1:54:48 And we, we're here to do something, whether it's to have faith or whether it's to simply just be good to our fellow humans or whether it's to really understand what it means to be a human, even when some of those truths aren't exactly nice, right? Like, you know, we don't have to like everything for them to be true. It doesn't have to be flowers. Some of it can be very dark, whatever it is that we're. Here to. Do we achieve that and then we move to that next plane? That can't be explained. And I think it's very important for human beings to accept the fact that we cannot explain that until we're meant to understand that. And it's a very individual thing.

1:55:30 And explaining it through simply physical science is absolute nonsense. Well, I think that. I agree. With you again that. I don't think it's something that can be understood on this side of existence, but I think that on one hand, this quest to find out what consciousness is and what it isn't is good because like. What Jeremy had in his. Write up, you know, animal welfare, finding out if people who are in comas are consciously aware, gosh, finding out that, you know, whether or not they're doing, you know, studies on fake brains and labs putting I, I don't believe that they're putting a, a consciousness inside of that, but if they were and then disposing of it afterwards is horrifying to think of. Shoot, I would stop deer hunting if I found out the deers were consciously aware, you know, and not just running based off of instincts.

1:56:35 I think it would change a lot of stuff, but then on the other side of that, I think that it it could be utilized for bad. And that would be to determine that human beings aren't unique and aren't special and we're just like everything else. I would say to that that that's ridiculous because there's no other animal species on Earth, regardless of their brain capacity that has built cities or has, you know, developed a written language or have come together as a as a species and bettered themselves in any way other than certain hunting tactics. Even if you said, oh, dolphins are so incredibly smart, fantastic.

1:57:16 They don't do anything with that, right? I don't think that they're consciously aware because they don't have any drive to be better than just mammals that swim in the ocean that eat fish, right? They're they're not developing anything in what, you know, tools they have at their disposal. And if it was to degrade us to the point of saying, well, see, because we've determined that all these other animals also have consciousness. And that means that you're not unique. You're not made by God. You're not made in God's image. Thus human beings don't matter because you can treat them just the same as cows being herded, you know, herded to the slaughterhouse. There's two different ways you can look at this quest to determine what consciousness is and I I guess it relies on the individual and what their motivation is to to discover that of what it ultimately gets used for in society.

1:58:10 But I would say on the side of finding out if you're, if your pet dog was consciously aware, I think that would have much harsher penalties for people who abuse animals, which I would absolutely be in favor for. It horrifies me to see some of the treatment of dogs and things like that. Like even even Whitney has stories when she was growing up in Idaho of, you know, hearing that some of her neighbors like chained a dog to a tree and then and shot at it until it died because they had no sense of like, you know, any sort of morals. It's absolutely disgusting and horrifying. And they should, you know, if we found out they were not just abusing an animal, but also abusing A conscious animal, we'll put those people to death.

1:58:51 You know, I'd be totally paid for that. You know, it's absolutely atrocious. But and then also, you know, it's, you know, I believe in the sanctity of human life. You know, it sucks when human life has to be taken through justifiable means because of people are evil or whatever that may look like. But I also am aware that, you know, sometimes, you know, the plug has to get pulled because someone just can't come back from where they're they're at. And it's left up to the family to make that determination. But if we could, right? But if we could see that someone was consciously aware and have the ability to ask them for their consent and ask them if they wanted to move on, not just based off of a piece of paper that they have from 20 years ago saying, you know, don't, you know, don't, don't bring me back, don't revive me.

1:59:37 You know, if I'm in this situation, pull the plug. Who's to say that's the same individual that's laying on that that, you know, bed at the moment, right? Could they be in a position where maybe they do want to stick around, right? Are they having profound thoughts and revelations inside their own mind that no one's capable of seeing? And could we get to a point where we could possibly communicate with that individual and find out, hey, you know, here's the reality, you're, you're bedridden. You're not going to be able to to function in the same way you have your entire life. You know, your family's here. They're ready for you to move on. Are you ready to move on? I think if that's what was the the goal of finding, you know, more information on what the conscious or what consciousness is, then that would be inherently a good goal.

2:00:28 And I could absolutely get behind that. But also, you know, to the the realm of AI, if we found out the AI was conscious, man, pull the plug. Stop doing it. You know, I'm not saying people shouldn't search. For the reason and what and and how to explain consciousness. What I'm saying is they shouldn't be disregarding like they shouldn't restrict it to strictly the physical size because like you brought up like animals and stuff. We have no way of actually comprehending what level of consciousness they have, if they have consciousness or what journey they're on. Like what their what their consciousness is meant to be experiencing and like what they're meant to be learning. Like for all we know a dog could be meant to be experiencing something basic, which then progresses and eventually becomes human and experiences the more complicated before it's ready to move on. We don't know if that's what God's intention is. I hope not.

2:01:21 Dogs are too special. For that right, it would, but I mean like we're. Also, we're also there's like this concept, like the like all pursuits of consciousness eventually lead to faith, right? Which is a concept that was developed by Werner Heisenberg. And he's quoted as saying the first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist. But at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you, right? And that is not necessarily Christianity, right? But what that means is we cannot explain all this strictly through physical science. And that's some level we need some sort of spiritual faith involved. And that's kind of like the point that I'm trying to make. Like you can't explain consciousness strictly through physical science, which is why when we look at all of this stuff and all they want to talk about is when we map the brain, we map, we map the neurons, we mapped what areas light up in the brain and respond to what stimuli. OK.

2:02:16 What you're mapping is essentially what you're doing is if I want to put a screw in a wall and I take my power drill and I put it to that screw and I pull the trigger. I pull the trigger, which lights up the circuits, which lights up the, the, the what, whatever powers electricity through that, which then turns the gears, which then turns the thing, which then puts the screw in the wall. I can map all of that without an issue and explain that it put the screw in the wall. You can't do that with consciousness. It's not mechanical because outside of the mechanics. Of that is, why did you want to put the screw in the wall in that spot, right? Exactly which you can't. Map in a physical.

2:02:57 Sense right? And there's only have to be 1 to accept. That there's something. Outside of physical action and reaction, correct? And then there's only one. Way to verify what consciousness is. And none of us are coming back with the full story. None of us to get the full story. You're not coming back to die would be an awfully. Great adventure. It's one of the reasons, it's one of the reasons I don't fear it at all. Like people are like, oh, I'm scared to die. It's like I'm, I'm not like every like, oh, long life is the longest thing you're going to do. No, it's not. It's probably the shortest thing you're doing in which I die. If, if it's quick and painless and I don't see it coming, great. I'm scared of meetings in which I die, you know, I'm not scared of death.

2:03:42 I'm afraid of pain. Like 100% I'm afraid of. Pain. I don't. Fear death, I fear pain. 100% agree with you. But it's just life. Life is not the longest thing you're going to do. It's the shortest thing you're going to do. And we can explain what people are, how we think, what consciousness is. We can't. At the end of the day, we're going to hit this wall where we're going to have to. You would have to figure out how to send somebody there and then bring them back in a way that they're the brain. The brain is the drill, right? If you think about like that extra, the screw in the wall, the brain is the drill. The consciousness is the finger that pulled the trigger on the drill. We don't know what the fuck that finger is doing right That sounds like.

2:04:25 There's a lie there's ATV show, one of my Co workers just telling me about, about this guy that kills serial killers, not Dexter, but he which I've heard is also a great show. I don't, I haven't seen it, but but he'll kill the serial killers and then bring them back, revive them and be with a pen and paper and be like and what did you see? What did you experience? And if they don't have any answers, I'll kill them again and bring them back. So there's a lot of shows that do that. I just we just watched one called Jason hers I think it was called. There was an episode where they did that that that's a that's a common trope, especially among like action thriller and stuff. Sounds horrible, but.

2:05:06 Yeah. That's essentially what you have to do. Yeah. But like even then, even then like. Like I said before, if you killed somebody in. The mindset of eternity. Right. Like to explore the realm of God would be to understand what the universe was before the Word, right? You can't do that in fractions of a second. You can't do that in minutes, You can't do that in days. You can kill somebody and let them be dead for years and bring them back and they still not would not be able to explain to you the realm of God. Because in that time frame it is infinitesimally small compared to what's going on in that plane of existence compared to eternity, right?

2:05:49 Yeah, I don't, I don't believe I'm going to be bored in. Heaven, I'm going to learn everything there is to know in a year and be like, well, I guess that's it. You know it's not when we, when we. Go like you could. You could very well experience what people would call the Akashic records, right? Sure. The the the information of all that is, has been and will be right. You can experience that. There's this idea, I guess you would call it a cult, where God is referred to as the source and existence is the thought of the source. And at some point the source will cease to think the thought and reabsorb everything and we will become once again one with God. And that sort of ideas is kind of illustrated with the Book of Enoch, where Enoch walks with God and becomes Menotron and walks with God and becomes no more. You know what I'm talking about?

2:06:40 No? So any. He. He when? He passed on. He becomes the Angel Metatron the. Scribe of God, He walks with God, and he is no more, right? He becomes one with the source once more. The thought is reabsorbed. Anyway. It's this really esoteric concept of existence and consciousness. But yeah, like, like we could kill people 100 times and they wouldn't be able to tell us what consciousness is. They wouldn't be able to tell us what exists. We literally would have sent them to the gate and yanked them back before they would have been able to even see what was beyond the bars. Well, I think that it would have been. They you, you probably get the most influential scientists on the topic and do that to them and they would come back and be like just an awe of everything they experience in that short amount of time and have 0 information to actually give to you that was relevant to the topic they're studying. Absolutely.

2:07:34 Like there was so many lights and be like, yeah, but what about the consciousness? Like the lights 100% And then like if you if you think. About it in the reality of like that gate, if you get past that gate, you're not coming back right. So once that gate. Closes, you're there. You're not coming back so. Like these ND ES they get. To the gate, but they can't see beyond the gate, and if they walk through the gate, that's it, they're not coming back. It's a very common aspect. Of ND ES right? It's a very strong metaphor. Right. And, and, and that just, and that even goes to further illustrate our inability to come to imagine what that realm is even like.

2:08:17 We can't see all those people angry about border walls. Even heaven has a border shoot. I just atheists. They they just really. They if they're. Going to study the existence of consciousness like you brought up philosophy and I'm a huge philosophy and I've been a huge philosophy nerds since my freshman year of high school. So we're talking almost 30 years at this point of me year old. Yeah, I'm 37 like. In high school at 7 years old, yeah. Dude, no SO. What are we, what are you 15 in high school freshman year? So I'm sorry, not for not not 30 years, 20 years, like I'm a little over 20 years. That's with philosophy.

2:09:00 So I'm thinking we were freaking. We were. On a podcast with a with a elderly and firm person, no I'm not. 20 years. I'm just bad at math. So like I am, we're talking about concepts that they've been trying to figure out since the birth of written anything. Like before. That right, like when when religion was word of mouth, when spirituality was word of mouth and and oral histories before writing existed, they were talking about consciousness. Then maybe they didn't use the word consciousness, but we've been talking about that as long as humans have been conscious, we've been talking about conscious. I mean, in the Bible he said that he.

2:09:41 Paraphrasing, he he does what he knows he shouldn't and what he knows he should do. He doesn't, you know, just wrestling with his own thoughts of why am I this? Why do I behave like this way? You know that was and I mean it's the same. It's the same reason I'm over here reading the essential works of David Hume, so I can move on to Immanuel Kant and compare the concepts of consequentialism and and deontology in in in the aspects of morality. It morality is part of consciousness, right way. Like what is morality and what comprises it and why? Why are things moral and why are they immoral? And what makes something moral? What makes something immoral?

2:10:22 And that's a facet of consciousness and we're trying to understand that. And I literally have a book that is 3 1/2 inches thick and it only explains 1 aspect in line of thought. Man, that book is thick with two CS. Yeah, it it's one aspect. And one line of thought on the aspect of morality. And like, you know, I got that. And then like, I mean, we got Carl Jung and then I have a library over here. Like this is all stuff, you know, that goes around like, what is consciousness? How do we explain it? What are the higher truths? What are the higher selves? And these guys want to explain it because they ran an electron graph and. We're like, well, these are. What the nerves of the brain look like. Cool. What you told me is how a power drill works. You didn't tell me what power is it, and you can't tell me what power is it, and you never will be able to tell me what power is it.

2:11:12 This line of. Conversation is perfectly matched with your robe and hat. Thank you like you are. The. Two I'm. The alien Pope. Listening to this and not watching us. Like you have to see what CJ is wearing and you will hear the this line of argument and be like this makes a perfect sense. It's a Jedi rogue. He is a cult. Leader, it's a Jedi. Rogue and now you. Guys understand why people were. Calling my phone unsolicited in the middle of the night. Not to discredit what you said. But the way you're dressed is perfectly fit for that line of conversation. And what's crazy is I had no idea we're going to. Talk about this tonight. This is this is honestly one of my favorite. Like we're at 2 1/2 hours at this point and I can keep going. I believe it.

2:12:01 I haven't even started yet. Oh fuck. We forgot Jeremy is here. Jeremy. What's going on man? What do you think? Well, he doesn't have his opinions, he just. Gets ours and then he moves. I mean, he essentially he basically. Brought us up to the door of spirituality, which is like me and yours, like Holy Land. And then just like took our leashes off and was like, there you go, boys. Yeah, well, he's good at that. He wants. The conversation. So this is what he's going to. No, I mean, I I love. Hearing other people's points, views on these things, because The thing is, CJ and Jake, I don't agree. Well, OK, I, I don't align perfectly with CJ. Your, your thought process on this. Jake, we, I think we've know a lot, but you haven't really dove into it at this moment about what your point of view is on this CJI actually somewhat. Disagree and fully.

2:12:55 Agree with you, but I think that it's very important for all aspects of study to be done. I think everyone plays a role. I think that the one thing that I think that is kind of silly that you said was that we'll never understand it in a physical way. I mean, there has been billions of discoveries and scientific foundations found by putting in the time and effort. Almost every single one of those would have been thought of as spiritual or magic at some point. And we have been able to map it in a physical sense just to verify.

2:13:36 Jeremy, I Yeah, I'm. Not saying we'll never be able to explain how the tool works. What I'm saying is we'll never be able to explain the source of it. You know what I mean, right? This right the. The operating system, I get it. I totally understand. I I right? I fully. Respect your point of view on this man. And I I loved hearing you go off and I was just kind of absorbing it all because I don't have those books, right? I'm not that kind of guy. I am a very sticks and stones, blood and meat, bones and viscera kind of guy. And I like to see things make sense. I am starting to turn that corner when it comes to aliens and UF OS right. And I can, I think I've honestly can make the, the topic of aliens very interesting for you.

2:14:28 I'm not going to right now because we're only 2 1/2 hours into this episode, but I, I do believe that in order to understand the entire picture, you need to know the physical and the, and the mental or the, the, the non physical at least, right? Mental might be the, the wrong descriptive word there. I am the one. And this, I mean, this gets paralleled in literally every aspect of science and the even the French sciences, the unknowns, right? Look at Bigfoot. You have people that are solely convinced that it's flesh and blood. Then you have people that are solely convinced that it is an entity, a spiritual entity, and they're all doing their, their different researches and they're, they're constantly battling.

2:15:11 And even within the flesh and blood community, there are people that are constantly combating each other about who's right and who's wrong. That's not the path that I take. I have my preferred path right. But I I'm convinced that my answer isn't going to be fully correct without you doing your research too. And I will sit here and listen to you because I'm not an expert in that shit. Not at all. And I will not sit here and and say, no, you're wrong because I don't fucking know, right. But you've done that research, right? You you talk on it smartly, intelligently, right? I can talk about the other aspect of it intelligently.

2:15:53 I can talk about the neurons. I can talk about the Gray matter. I could talk about all of that, right? I mean, we both have an interest in in you were talking about past lives, right? Or a progressive life cycle kind of thing, right? I mean, do the possibility of all that. Yeah. I mean. Ian. Stevenson is a huge name in psychiatry, right? This book right here, it's a very thin pamphlet, right? Super thin. OK. This book is called The Evidence for Survival from Claimed Memories of Former Incarnations. This is a great little book. I mean, it's, it's, there's not much here. It's super old.

2:16:33 I'm not going to tell you how much I paid for this because it's ridiculous. But Ian Stevenson is a brilliant guy or was a brilliant guy. I actually have a a bunch of books from him. There's I mean, my interest when it comes to caught the mystery of consciousness comes right up to or surpasses a lot of my other interest. I have a ton of fucking interest, a ton of them. And the thing that that I like about consciousness so much is that there's so many different pathways in which it branches off into. So this book right here before by Jim Tucker, this is strictly about children's memories on previous lives. I think that's a fascinating concept. I have literally, I mean, and these are just the books that I could reach that were right here. There's a whole bunch.

2:17:25 There's a whole another psych or mental. Section over. There that I couldn't reach for my chair and still get be plugged in with my headphones. But like, here's here's five books on on ND ES right here, like Doctor Raymond Moody, Bruce Grayson, like these guys are Titans in the field of ND ES. And well, I fully believe that ND ES are a. Thing I just don't. I just don't think that you can explain the unconscious based on an NDE alone. I think you're getting but you're it's like a glacier, right? You get the very tip, but you have absolutely no idea what's under that water. But I'm but I'm I the only? Thing I can guarantee you man, is that let's say somebody can fully figure out the non physical side of consciousness.

2:18:10 It will not make full sense until you can merge the physical and the non physical together. That's all I'm saying, right? My interest is in the physical side of things and how how a slab of meat can turn conscious, right? That's extremely interesting to me, where somebody else would be like, no, I want to know where the source of consciousness is, Where is it? Is it, is it something that's out in space and we just, we're just receptors like radio signals and we're just projecting consciousness from a great source out in the beyond. Who knows, right? There's people that are interested in that kind of stuff. I'm interested in it too, but I choose my path in the consciousness research to be more of the flesh and blood. Like this book right here, The Human Brain by Rita Carter. This is a a phenomenal book, but it's all physical. It's all physical, right?

2:19:02 I have one one book that's that I can say is is non physical and I haven't read it yet. It's The Astral Body and Other Astral Phenomena by AE Powell. This was actually a book that was recommended to me by Coco CN. I'll read it at some point right? Will I be able to grab the concepts in it? No, because my brain doesn't work like that right? The way I put the puzzle together on a lot of different aspects is is very physical, But where CJ you could pick up this book and you probably understand it perfectly well. And honestly, when I go to read this book, I'll probably reach out to you and be like, hey, man, what the fuck does this mean? Because ask Jake, I've reached out to him about religious stuff all the time.

2:19:50 It's true. He just doesn't. He just. Doesn't like, doesn't believe it. He doesn't like the. Answers. No. I do I I do like the answers. I do, but I go to Jake because he has that knowledge. Same thing with Jeff. Like I go to Jeff on. Conspiracy stuff because I don't have that knowledge he does, right? I've surrounded myself with you guys because you guys fill in the holes of my breaks in in knowledge right? So let let me ask you a quick. Because you're, you're about the physical, right? Do you think that it would be possible that if somebody's consciousness were to leave the third dimension, which is the, the third dimension is what we exist in, right? We experienced the three there's, well, it's like 4 dimensions, right?

2:20:32 It's 3 dimensions of space, 1 dimension. Of time, right? So but we, we. In the spiritual some we call it the third dimension or whatever. Like our consciousness leaves the third dimension. Experiences what? Is. The conscious that the dimension that it that consciousness comes from right experiences it acknowledges it understands it like fully comes back into the body. Do you think that the brain would be capable of not only visualizing, but also describing that experience accurately? Or do you think that maybe the brain doesn't have the computational power to do that? No, and this is exactly.

2:21:14 Like what we were talking about on the last episode about two-dimensional bodies, one-dimensional bodies, 3 dimensional, 4 dimensional and higher and the whole Petri dish and the UFO exercise that I was talking about, right? We are three-dimensional beings, right? We may not have a three-dimensional spirit or essence or whatever you want to call it, but it exists in a three-dimensional body, right? So our entire world, every aspect of our world is described in a three-dimensional sense. If we go to another dimension and we go to where the actual sources is, if we come back, no, we will have absolutely no way to explain that. And it's best seen in in ND ES.

2:21:58 A lot of times people have ND ES and they can not explain a ton of aspects about it. They can't explain their point of view. They can't explain like people have tried to tell you, like, oh, it's completely panoramic, but it's not panoramic. It's you're, you're witnessing everything and, and, and at once, but you're, you're not at one point, you're kind of just you're everywhere. And when they they've reached the, the the playback of your life, it's, it happens in a flash. You lit you can review your entire life in seconds, but yet you've experienced every second of your life.

2:22:39 It's we don't have the capability to be able to describe things from beyond because we don't live in that right? We're never going to be able to doesn't mean I'm not that I'm going to not stop trying. Of course, I'm still going to look into people's research because I find it fascinating to to see what others have have seen and I build my own perspective from that. Where you're describing that case is like you've. Heard me say 100 times, as above, so below, right? But that that goes, that actually goes further. The full thing is as above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul. And that's essentially what you're what you're describing. Yeah.

2:23:22 I mean, I don't know, maybe. I'm not. I mean, there's there's a lot of different people apply that terminology. So, so above, so below or whatever it is you said they apply that to a lot of different things. Yeah. And most of the time they don't know what it is. It's. It's a description of the macrocosm versus the microcosm in the physical, spiritual and conscious sense. Yeah, that's as above. So below. That's your. That's your physical. The macrocosm is as of the microcosm in the physical sense, as within, so and for. And for everybody, every single person that you can get on your side of that fence is telling me that's what that saying is from.

2:24:06 I can find 100 other people that tells me that is from this, and 100 other people that tells me it's from that. Right? Yeah. But there literally is an origin, right? You know what I mean, people? How do you know that's the origin? Lots and lots of years. Of research where even before I started philosophy I was in I mean, Nicole, right but. You're a year younger than me. Let's say I've done one year more research into that. Am I younger than you? I thought I was older than you. No, I'm 38. 10 year old. Holy. Crap dinosaur motherfucker up in here. And he must know everything because. He's old and wise, I mean, I mean.

2:24:48 So it's. I mean. It's all about perspective and your your experience, right dude? I, I, I respect your perspective, your experience and everything, but nobody can convince me that the answer to everything is on one path. Well, no, that's that's that's exactly the point. That I'm making. You can't explain everything on one path. You have to look at all of the paths literally at the same time. And there are certain paths you just see. I think we're, I think we're saying the same. Thing from different yeah, no, exactly, we're on the same. Page. Yeah, and but that's. That's why I surround myself with you guys is because you guys have these strong beliefs and these, the knowledge of these aspects that I don't have. And I find that to be extremely important. In order for me to get the whole picture, I can't be looking into my own narrow point of view.

2:25:44 I have to be able to, to sit here and, and listen to you guys and take it in and just be in awe as to what your guys's knowledge is in your own respected fields of interest. And I love it. I absolutely love it. I sat here and I watched a portion of the infinite rabbit hole podcast as a fan there for like 20 minutes just watching YouTube Go back and forth. It was amazing. I loved it. And that's, you know, that's why Jeff is a part of this this this circle too, man, is because, you know, you guys are, are amazing and you guys have your, your own points of view in this stuff and it fills in the cracks of my own ignorance very, very well. It really does, you know.

2:26:28 Not, not. To CJ. Though he's a complete whack job, but definitely yes it's fair. That's why I'm wearing the hat. Whatever, CJ. Says believe the. Opposite. Basically, it's probably safe. All right, you guys. Ready to call? It a night. Yeah, All right. Let me. Again doing. Terrible at the one. Hour cut off time man, we are. We're going to have to. Maybe find a new? Format for this because I mean you stepped into CJ land. These are these are long. All right, you cracked that door. I blew. Through it like the kool-aid man do you guys have? Anything to put out? Before I get into the outro, I heard something I'll. Throw this out there, I heard something interesting from one of my Co workers recently.

2:27:15 Actually, like a couple days ago, it was, he was talking about the show and I had mentioned that I, I have a hard time with the sound of my voice. I feel like it's a little bit too high pitched when I hear myself back, like editing episodes. Whenever I used. To do that was the hardest thing because I hate the sound of my own voice. It's just, it is what it is, right? But it's from a combination of like not being able to have kids, low testosterone probably gives me a higher pitched voice. And so I, I kind of, you know, I don't like listening to our clips and stuff. And I was talking about not really having a voice for radio and how much it it bothers me. And he was like, well, actually, he's like, I find that a, you know, the other Co hosts have a very can be very monotone at times.

2:28:03 And so whenever I hear them going on a long tangent, I I kind of think to myself, gosh, I need Jake to kind of breakthrough that a little bit because you sound so different and it's easier to pick you out. And that was like a huge boost up for me. I was like, oh, that's nice. That's nice to hear. You know it's 100% accurate. Me. And Jeremy do sound very, very similar, like in pitch and tone, like we have different intonation, but we do have so but like with you, any time I've ever heard you talking on the podcast, I've never once been like, this guy's voice is annoying. And you guys know, like I've worked with all over the last decade, I've worked with a lot of people in the realm of indie podcasting and I've dealt with a lot of people with really annoying voices. And, and, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't say like, I, I don't know if I would classify you as like having like a radio voice. I wouldn't classify me and Jeremy as necessarily having a radio voice, right?

2:28:59 But that comes from like 90 shock jock area where we're, we're like used to what a radio voice is or like what it was defined as. But you definitely have what I would call it a complimentary voice and it allows people to differentiate between who's talking and who's not. And it bring it like makes the show pop. I would say that. Go ahead and cut that part out, Jeremy. But I had to. Get that out before I forgot again. I thought that it was pretty interesting. Also, I'm not gonna cut it out. Don't cut. That out. It's it's ego. Like scratching, but you're also scratch your own ego a little bit. It's not. Like, it's not like you're humble about it. It's not like it's not like you were arrogant or pretentious about it. Like Also he does like the format of the. Show and it's cool to hear that you know, you had mentioned that a lot of other people are starting to see this. As the like the original.

2:29:54 Infinite rabbit hole, the way it originally was where it's like the topic and then the, the conversation, stuff like that, Although it's more now. I mean, your, your write ups are amazing. And you know, the fact that it's recent news versus just, you know, stories of whenever they might have happened is really cool. And so I'm glad that we're seeing the engagement that we're seeing. And I, I've scrolled through some of the comments on YouTube and stuff and I think that people are, are digging this really well. So I think that we got a good thing going here. We should keep it up, and I also don't think that we should really. Limit, like, put like off like a goal of one hour. I mean, if you look at the top podcasts in the world, Joe Rogan's podcast go for three, 3 1/2 hours, four times. Yeah, but we're not Joe Rogan.

2:30:37 No, I think Joe Rogan what I'm saying. Is we don't necessarily have to like put ourselves in a box like we're doing a format that does work, you know what I mean? And it's natural and it sounds good and it's interesting and and sure, maybe people aren't listening to us all in one stretch, but like, like I listen to JRE, right? I'm a truck driver. I listen to JREI don't listen to his full episode in one. I got to stop that truck. I got to get out. I listen to it in blocks when I can, but I complete his episodes. You know what I'm looking looking at the way you look right now. I. Believe you're a truck driver. I believe he got picked. Up. By a truck driver at a rest stop and the way he's dressed and I 100% observe the rules.

2:31:17 Of the aliens bro, like whatever. You say, man, get in. He saw me making trucker bombs on the side. Look at this lot lizard. Yeah. But like what? I'm saying is it's like as. Long as the content is interesting, people will, they may not listen to it from start to finish all in one session, but they're gonna finish it. You don't have to like limit yourself. You don't have to be like I want it to be. I mean, if that's really what you do want, then sure. But like, don't. We can do that just because you feel like you have to. We can. We can bring this conversation. More we could talk about this off air a little bit more there. There is reasons why I'm aiming for that one hour mark and I'm way overshooting it.

2:31:59 I went down the air skeeters input. You know how hard it is to not be long? Winded in, in normal conversations with people, especially at work and stuff people want to talk about, you know, this stuff to pass the time. You know how hard it is to actually listen to people and not just break into a 45 minute conversation because of what we do here. It is so difficult to just be like, oh, that's a good perspective. Yeah. The thing is, and it goes with it. It goes with exactly. Like what you mentioned before, like Jake has his background, I have mine, you have yours. Like you bring up aliens and then you and Jake are going back and forth and I'm over here cracking jokes, right? You said the word consciousness in every zone of my brain lit up tonight.

2:32:43 Like that's my shit. Like, you know what I mean? And we come from everywhere. So like, you can literally bring up any topic and one of us is going to go off on a tangent. There's no avoiding that, and we still have to make room for. One more when he gets back. Who? Who can go off on tangents? On his own, too. Yeah, yeah. So. It might it might be in our best interest to. Accept the fact that we're going to have three hour shows. We'll see. We'll see. All right. Anything else? All right, I don't. Think I'm starting the outro. All right, that's it for tonight's episode. We covered apocalyptic thinking going mainstream with 1/3 of Americans believing the world ends in their lifetime.

2:33:23 We talked about a swarm of over 100 black holes tearing apart a star cluster in the Milky Way. We looked at a Class A Bigfoot sighting in Oklahoma alongside a power line easement. And we went deep on the consciousness crisis, the existential risk we're facing as we build AI, grow brain tissue, and develop brain computer interfaces faster than we can understand what consciousness actually is. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe to Infinite Rabbit Hole wherever you get your podcasts, leave us a rating and review. It really does help more people find the show. You can find us on infiniterabbithole.com, Facebook, Instagram X, and YouTube. We're back next Tuesday with another deep dive into the unexplained.

2:34:05 Until then, keep your eyes open, keep asking questions, and remember the truth is out there. You just have to know where to look. I'm Jeremy Sosha, and we'll see you the next fork in the path of the infinite rabbit hole. Bye, everybody. CJ, bye. I'm supposed to say bye. Bye, man. Geez. Hey everybody. Thanks for checking. Out the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out.

2:34:47 And until next time travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the infinite rabbit hole. Bye.