191. UFOs, Time Travel, & Milabs w/ ariel & Krys of the Elephant In The Room Podcast

0:00 Hey travelers, it's kid Kenzar. I'm just stopping by to say that Jeremy, Jake, Jeff, and CJ have been absolutely killing it lately. Great job guys. The episodes have been fantastic. Still one of my favorite shows to listen to. But with all that being said, I don't want to keep you guys any longer than I absolutely have to. We've got a Cryptid or aliens. Or whatever conspiracy Jeff's got going on to learn about so. Welcome travellers, you're listening to the infinite rabbit hole. Enjoy. Imagine this line represents. A time present, 1985. Higher to. This point in. Time somewhere in the past the timeline you put into this tangent, creating an alternate.

1:16 Welcome back to the Infinite Rabbit Hole. I'm your host, Jeremy, and today we're going to sit down and talk to two special guests today. Before we do that, let's go ahead and bring in our Co host Jacob, who's rubbing the sleepies out of his eyes. A long day, All right is ripping up a flower bed for Whitney this morning. And then this afternoon, I was dropping off some chicken eggs for one of our neighbors and on my way back saw a whole flock of turkeys on the property. And so I ran inside and grabbed my shotgun. And I ran outside and within two minutes leaving my door, I got my very first Turkey ever for the Wisconsin fall Turkey season and now cleaned in the freezer.

2:07 And it was probably about 10 lbs, which, you know, it's not like you get in the stores or not pumped up with hormones and stuff, but man, it was a blast. So that was very unexpected. I ran inside. I was like, I told Whitney, I was like, Oh my gosh, oh, it's happening, It's happened. She's like, what's happening? Turkeys everywhere. Grabbed the shotgun and ran back outside and, and took care of business. And it was, it was a blast. But umm. Yeah. Yeah, right. And then making us breakfast for tomorrow so we can have some fried egg sandwiches for breakfast and then showing up on here. So that was my whole day chores and a little bit of sporadic hunting and some honey to use. Nice moving on to somebody who probably didn't kill an animal today.

2:55 Cafe. What's up, man? Did I kill any animals today? Probably killed a bunch of insects today. I cleaned some gutters for a lady today and made some money. That was it. Yep, sat around the house. That's it. Probably tore up a few birds nests. You're a terrible person. Yeah man. Your gutters look good though man. Brand new garbage. Garbage. Yeah, call me if you're in the, you know, Florida area. You need that. You need that done. Let me know. I got you. Stop. Stop being garbage stuff. Stop soliciting. My life is boring. That's all I did today. All right, now that we're past that boring introduction, Jeff, let's go ahead and bring in our guest for the night. Tonight we have the host of the Elephant in the Room podcast. Ariel and Chris, how are you ladies doing tonight? Yeah, you get to go first.

3:50 Oh. OK, usually you jump in. No, we're doing good. Thank you so much for having us. This is just so much fun. We just always love connecting with new faces, especially people who are kind of interested in the same topics and just having conversations. And, you know, that's what you guys are doing. That's what our show is about. We bring guests on and yeah, we, we try not to create that echo chamber chamber and we just, we like to just explore these topics and talk about it. Sounds good. Yeah, and my name is Chris and I am doing well today. I had a pretty lazy day which is. Pretty normal. Actually lately anyway, it's been kind of normal for me.

4:34 But yeah, I'm, I'm actually really excited to be here. Ariel and I had taken a little bit of a break over the summer and so we did a show last week and that was our first show back. And I've, I've just missed the interaction with people and having the conversations and the dialogue. So I'm glad to be back and and show the stage with you guys. Good stuff. So during the pre recording you guys were talking to us a little bit and you guys had said that you haven't actually met yet. So how did you guys meet each other? Go ahead, Chris. Well, we actually met through Twitter or XI had been on for probably about a year and a half or so on on the platform and had built a little community of people who were interested in the UAP topic and came across Ariel throughout my time. And, and really just found her presence to be so positive and uplifting and just a really kind of honestly a different view for most people on on X because it can get really toxic there. And I, I don't know, I just felt just kind of a calling in a weird way.

5:53 I wanted to share my story and my experiences and just have a platform to like talk about them and think them through. And she stood out to me. So I literally just reached out to her randomly and said, hey, you want to do a podcast? Literally never had spoken. And so we obviously said, let's meet and see how our chemistry is and, you know, see what we think. And honestly, it was just really, what's the word synchronicity, the whole thing, you know, we, we just had these common backgrounds. Jake, I, I don't know what to call myself anymore.

6:34 I, I, I feel like I'm in a weird place, but I have a Christian background. And actually my husband and I did a lot of pastoral work and service and he actually started his Christian faith journey in, in, in Southern California through Calvary Chapel. And we were you pastor in Calvary Chapel many years ago. So now I wouldn't really label myself as that. And and I and I just don't, I don't, I think it's more that I don't like the label and you're sort of. Deconstructing like you're, you're, you're like in a process, you're in a journey like deconstructing and just like putting back, putting your faith back together, like figuring out what you believe and not what people have told you.

7:22 Yeah, exactly. It definitely. And so it was really great because, and honestly ironic that the Ariel was one of the people that I felt attracted to online to, to talk about this subject with because she is, you know, a Christian and she's very strong in her faith. And I, I think I thought it would be like you said it, it, it removes that echo chamber, right? It gives us some different perspectives to bounce off of each other. And, and I, I don't know. So it's just been really cool. Ariel, what do you think? No, yeah, I totally agree. And Chris is an experiencer and I am not. And I really love that about our show because I feel like because of that, we're we're a safe space for experiencers to come on because she can connect with them in that way. But also, you know, some of the people who are more, you know, academic, like they can come on too. So it's a very like, we have a very wide range of people who come on and I really love that about our show. Good stuff.

8:24 So Chris, yes, what did you experience? That's a great question. If anyone has the answer please let me know. So I would say it's, it's hard for me to share my story because I think when once you have an experience, you reflect on your life and you kind of see other experiences that popped up throughout that you may not have recognized as such. But essentially in 2021, I began to somewhat randomly get dig into the subject.

9:04 I think I saw, you know, I, I tell everybody that George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell are my gateway drugs to the topic. I think I heard a podcast and I was in the Navy as well. So I heard a podcast or I mean a show or a news article about the Princeton episode in San Diego. And we lived in San Diego at the time in 2021. Were you aviation? Say that again. Were you aviation? No, actually, I was a corpsman. I was. I was just a corpsman, yeah. Jake. Jake and I were aviation Navy. Oh, really?

9:45 Oh, cool. Good to know. Yeah. And my husband was, he was a ship serviceman, but he was stationed on the Princeton back in the day. So the connection was there of course, when I heard the story and I started listening to some of their, you know, stories and, and digging into the topic just pretty briefly. But for some reason it captured my attention. And then within I would say that was like March of 2021. And by May of 2021, I had actually captured my first daytime UAP on my phone.

10:27 But at the time I really did not. I did not know that's what it was. I didn't, I was joking. I was looking at the sky. It was and I was filming it and I was telling my dad, ha, ha, ha. Technically it's a UFO because we couldn't identify it, blew it off, moved on. But then in July, I had my first night time experience. Me, my daughter and her boyfriend were getting ready to watch the 4th of July fireworks. We were on the roof of our house and happened to have a night time camera that I had just purchased because I was into the topic and I thought I was going to start looking at the stars. And she was holding it and she started filming and a blue orb traversed across the sky across the Canyon from where we were. And you know, I said film it, film it. So she starts filming it and it traverses across the Canyon and then it turns and heads.

11:28 It was initially going like South to north and then it went east or West to east and then it returned and came back. But within that time period, it was like a 62nd shot. And it, according to my calculations, it traversed about, I don't know, 6 miles. And again, everything is up in the air, right? You don't know what you're seeing distance wise at night, but I know what like trees, it went in front of and behind of based on the film and you know, things like that. And it turned blue, it turned green. I mean, sorry, it turned blue, it turned white, it turned red and sorry. And and it was super fast. I mean it the way it returned especially it just like stopped on a diamond and reversed.

12:19 And so right away I was just like, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, you know, we're seeing something and then hovered and then it descended in a diagonal pattern. So it kind of looked like it could have been a drone. But like once I calculated the speed and I watched that Canyon for years after that, I certainly knew that it was not something, it was definitely something anomalous. And then I watched the skies pretty much nightly. And frankly, in February of 2022, I started seeing daytime UA PS at the same time of day, every day. I have lots of videos, I've captured hundreds of videos. And it was in this particular spot. And so that really look kind of like threw me for ontological, you know, through ontological shock, because once I started realizing I was seeing something repeatedly, it's, you know, it has no propulsion system, it's moving, it's controlled. I just really was like, wow, this there's something to this. Certainly it could be something maybe military or but it was not something normal.

13:29 I mean, it didn't appear to be anything that we would claim or to possess or to to have. And and this is over San Diego in a in a regular zone. And then I saw lots of other things. I mean, I captured black cubes. I've captured objects that look kind of like a jellyfish, just multiple things. Of course my footage is terrible because I have iPhone and you know, but those were kind of where it started and it and it just became, it really took over my life to be honest. It just changed my perspective of everything about the world. So. Is there a place where you post these videos?

14:11 Typically on Twitter, so on my Twitter account, they're there. I have a few on a YouTube channel. But actually, I don't know if Ariel even knows this, but she made contact with somebody who's in the film industry a few months back. And I've reached out to them and they're supposed to help me gather all my files together and do something with them. Because that's one of my challenges is the technical aspect of it. And, you know, really getting them because I'll post them to Twitter. And people are like, I can't see it. And it's obvious. Like, you know, it is a small white orb, so it is hard to see, but I can see it on my screen. They can't see it on the upload. It's obviously, you know, getting compressed.

14:53 So I need some help with that, but Twitter is primarily. You can look through my feed and see all my past postings. I've been posting pretty much since 2021, but. What's your Twitter page? Chris Devine, KRYSDEVINE or Awake while sleeping. I think you find it as Chris Devine. So. It's. Got some pretty cool videos on there. I was I was snooping. I'm. Good, no. That's good you're doing your homework. I, I, I just see what I was getting myself into, you know? No. Very cool, Ariel, you don't have anything. No. And I think, you know, maybe Jake can relate to this.

15:35 I I don't want an experience, you know, I, I kind of am closed off to that. There's something, I don't know if you guys are familiar with CE5 and it's basically a method, I think it was. Is it Greer? Chris Greer? I think so. Close Encounters. Yeah, but it's like it's it's like the CE5 method that he. Developed that you go. Out and you say and do certain meditations and you're like calling UFOs or beings to you and a lot of people. I mean talk, talk to talk to people. I mean it works. It happens all the time. There's absolutely something to it. Personally, I don't know what you're calling to you, and that just really freaks me out, you know, if it could.

16:20 Be. Some kind of, yeah, some kind of something that's malevolent or demonic. I I don't want. So like I, I kind of am closed off to the experiencer part of it. I but I love listening to experiencers and I'm definitely open minded that it's not necessarily malevolent or anything bad. I just personally and like want to be careful about what I opened myself up to. Does that make sense? Jake is like, can you, can you see that from a Christian perspective? What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. No, I am. It's, it's funny because one of our Co hosts, CJ, who's taking a break right now, he, he was joking around with me and I was like, bro, I will look an alien in the face and tell him he's not real, all right?

17:03 Like, I don't care, right? But it's just like it's not extraterrestrial for me. It's, it's all spiritual based and stuff. And it it seems to create AI don't know a level of fear and anxiety and people that have that have encounters. And that doesn't sound like it's coming from any good place, right. Well, then again, you know, you, you read into the Bible and stuff and every time an Angel present himself, he's like, be not afraid, right? Because they don't look like, they don't appear like human beings. They look like giant rings with eyeballs all over them and six wings and like multiple heads and all this sort of stuff, like crazy stuff. But either, either way, yeah, I'm not, I'm, I'm certainly not the guy that's going out looking for for ghosts. I'm not going out trying to call in, you know, do some weird meditations or ritual type things to try to call in some spiritual entity to come and and harass me, right, type stuff. And so I totally feel where you're coming from from that. And on the other side of that, you know, spending thirteen years in the Navy, I have seen and have recorded my fair share of of Uaps or UFOs, right?

18:17 But it's like, I don't know, it doesn't for most of the stuff that I've seen, it could easily be dismissed as, you know, testings of new types of vehicles and stuff. Like one of the the ones I always like to point to is the SEAL who killed bin Laden. He was on AI want to say it was the Shawn Ryan show podcast maybe. And he said, well, anyway, so he said that he, so when they flew into the compound, they were flying Blackhawks, right? Blackhawk helicopters that had never really been introduced ever before that event to the point where Obama at the time, because he was the president, they were sitting in the situation room and they're briefing him.

19:03 They said, we're 99% sure that Osama bin Laden is here in this compound because we've seen his like his nephew and they're always together, right? That's his last line of defense. And so they're briefing Obama and they got the team there. They've got all the, all the top generals that are that are working this this whole thing. And Obama says, all right, well, you know, is that it everything else? And they're like, well, so the vehicles, the, the aircraft we want to use are like super stealth Blackhawks. And Obama as the president had never heard of these types of Blackhawks before. And even the pilots who flew them were, in fact, Blackhawk pilots, but had never flown the stealth Blackhawks before. And I don't know if you ever heard. We have them in the Navy.

19:48 They're called, you know, sea nights. Seahawks. Yeah. Seahawks, MH60, Sierras and Romeos. And of course the Army, and I think the Marines as well, have the Blackhawks. But they're super noisy. Like, you can hear them from, you know, miles up, right, going through. Well, apparently they're so quiet somehow, that the. The terrace in the compound for Osama bin Laden. Didn't know that they were there until they were breaching the doors. Wow. Now that is some super duper high level stealth capabilities. Not just for radar and all that sort of stuff, but for noise as well, right?

20:30 That's crazy. So when I hear things like that or I or I see, you know, the Congress sessions that they have and they they refuse to answer any questions like we'll talk about that in a closed session. What that leads me to believe is that a lot of the things that people see in the sky either are spiritual in nature, which I'm very, you know, much assured that a lot of them might, may maybe right or they are top secret military vehicles. That really would be just insanely asinine for the federal government to come out and say, yeah, we got all these projects. You know, hopefully our enemies don't try to copy it right type stuff because they've got Lockheed and Raytheon and and Northrop Grumman and all these, you know, all these companies that are private companies that are out of the federal government working on these projects. So, but regardless, even if it was, well, I can't say that saying everything is a military vehicle, but then if you do a special ritual or or something like that out in the woods and, you know, dance naked around a campfire, that they suddenly appear, that sounds doesn't sound like it's a military vehicle to me, right.

21:46 So yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from. And, and the, a lot of the pushback I've had honestly in this podcast has come from some of the subjects because it's like, I don't want to entertain this sort of stuff in my brain or give it a space, right? So when it comes to the paranormal or the aliens or whatever it is, I really don't want to dig into it because I feel like it's creating a platform for evil, right? Or something like that. So I certainly have my reservations and I'm not going out and looking for it. Now, if it happens, it happens, right? I mean, what are you going to do? It's like getting caught out in the rain without an umbrella. It happens, right?

22:28 So, but I'm not going to go out and, like, seek it out, Right. Right. Do anything crazy to to make something happen. Yeah. Interesting. I I, and I find that interesting because I think that, I think for me, you know, of course, that was kind of coming from the a Christian background. My perspective had always been very much, you know, that discernment and, you know, being careful what you, you open up yourself to and yourself in. But I think as I, as I deconstructed some of that, I, I began to realize, I don't know, I, I, I think some of the fears started to fall away.

23:16 And it wasn't like I would say I was inviting them per SE, but I was open to the idea of seeing them or of experiencing something. But but I think and I, and it's funny, Jake, because I never was into sci-fi or, or any like I didn't, I didn't watch anything. I did grow up having a fear of UFOs though. I I did dream. I have a really strong dream life and which is why my name is awake while sleeping. And as a child, I had a terrible fear of UFO invasions. And I would have these nightmares of UFOs coming in and there were pretty much lights in the sky. And, and in my childhood thought processes, they were, you know, aliens invading.

24:08 But as I impacted as a later on, as an adult, I, I began to realize that it was these lights I was seeing coming in these UFOs. But the invasion wasn't really the problem. It was our response to the UFOs. It was the, the response from the military. And that's what would cause this war in my dreams. So I started to really reflect on that and just the concept of how our fear causes us to respond to others, you know, whatever that may be. I mean, like you said, exactly like, you know, every time you see an Angel in the Bible, it is fear. Not, you know, there, there is a fear, there's a, there is a spiritual connection or something that affects, you know, our perception as humans when we encounter something that's not human, just like if we encountered an animal in the forest, we would get fear.

24:59 You know, that doesn't mean it's, you know, evil per SE. It just means it is what it is. And we know that we should not maybe be in the presence of that because there is a potential of harm. So that was kind of the perspective I started to take just because I didn't want to limit my perception of the world to what I was programmed to believe about certain things, which I know you have to be careful, but but I did want to experience the world as it is and, and to under, you know, I'm just fascinated. I'm just curious by the world, you know, it's just so fascinating to me. So yeah.

25:42 I'm also very fascinated with the world. If it's a mystery, if it, if it's something of the unknown or whatever, I love it. You know, all aspects of it too. When Jake and I first started the show, we were kind of bouncing around the idea of originally just becoming a Bigfoot podcast. And then it turned into, ah, let's just do all the cryptids. And then then it turned into, you know what, let's just do everything. I mean, Yep. But nothing political. But everything else, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we just stay away from politics. But I mean, we've covered everything from, you know, near death experiences to the FALC monster to UFO incidents. I mean aquatic aid theory, sleeper out. I mean everything.

26:28 Yeah. I love it. I love the world of of the unknown and, and just having that those questions and then being able to look into what we have been able to uncover for these from these mysteries and try to add to that if we possibly could or decipher it in your own own way. Like we do a lot here on the show where, you know, we'll bring a topic like we, we just got done with a four part series on Hollow Earth and we dove really deep into like the history, the literature, the, the concepts, the fiction, nonfiction, beliefs, myths, lore. Science. Everything that you possibly dive into it and we all dissected it in our own views and.

27:13 That's great. Yeah, it's I love the world of the mysteries. Just good stuff. So what do you and Jeff think about the UFO phenomenon? Jeremy will never tell us, we always ask him what his thoughts are and he's always like you got to wait till part 4 at the very end to find out what I about this. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You. You. Want to you want to get into this? OK, here's here's my my honest opinion. OK. And we just recorded Part 2 of our Men in Black last week.

27:55 And in that episode we actually talked about it. Jeff didn't catch it, you know, whatever, He doesn't pay attention, he doesn't love me. It's OK, I can, I can get by without that. But I'm going to be honest with you, the the best thing that I've ever heard was that they could be potential time travellers. I think that's an extremely interesting point and that that there's a lot of answers that are questions that get answered with that point of view a lot, including why they don't make contact with us, you know, in, in, you know, in the physical.

28:39 And I'm not, you know, I'm not saying that all of them are time travelers, that there there could absolutely be other things. I mean, you have stories like Whitley Strieber's communion and Fire in the Sky and, and you know, a bunch of other really good alien abduction, you know, Benny Betty and Barney Hill there. There's a ton of them out there. And you know, I'm not, I'm not saying that all of them are lying at all. I, I think they're very interesting in, in their own right, but I think that the majority of them are most likely time travelers out to make sure that we're not screwing up the timeline. Now in the Men in Black Part 2 episode, I did talk a little bit about how just a, just a theoretical answer to the men in Black mystery because they're so tightly tied into the UFO phenomenon as possibly being these time travelers, these pilots of these UFOs and potentially being the wardens of time, if you will, basically coming out and making sure that we're not messing with the, the time, you know, the, the, the time stream And people who do have these encounters with mysterious beings are, are being silenced to ensure that we're not skipping ahead too far into certain things, which would erase, you know, the natural flow of time, which would erase certain things in the future, which would mess a lot of stuff up.

30:09 And I, I think that they, they, they keep their distance for a really good reason. And then if you look at things such as, you know, they're their, their, how, how, how they always go after nuclear weaponry and nuclear power, right? Like the Maelstrom Air Force Base incident where the nuclear reactors were shut down, you know, after an orange light appeared. And, you know, they just went down. And then you hear about them always chasing nuclear carriers and, and being above nuclear submarines. Like we had just talked about Project Aquarius a little bit a little while ago and how during Project Aquarius, when they were doing their, their remote viewing tests and, and exercises, the, the, the people that they were running these, these tests with claimed to a spotted flying saucers or, or something of the such above where these hidden Soviet Subs or U boats were or German U boats. And it's I, I, I don't know.

31:24 I, I think that's, that, that's one of the, the best explanations that you could think of. And it, it's, it's strictly just because it answers so many questions, right? It, it really does. I, I think it fits very, very well. Is that my final answer? No, I'll probably change that at some point after I do research and just another topic, I'm like, oh. Well, next 10 minutes they'll change his opinion. No, that's Jeff. Jeff does that. Oh yeah, that's true. I do change my mind a lot, but no I don't think it's that crazy man. I honestly, I think like probably 95% of all of these sightings and experiences are probably, I'm not going to say government because I don't think government's competent enough to pull off some of these things, right? But like, like you were saying, Jake, right? And we've said it 1000 times, all these like military industrial complex corporations that have these black budgets and these secret vaults of information and stuff that is classified because they do work with governments and, and things like that around the world.

32:27 So I think that there's offshoots, there's the breakaway civilization that's doing stuff. And a lot of what we're seeing is probably that there's probably some advanced military aircraft that we're just not aware of, right? Of course they're developing like the next like 6th generation, right? We're all aware of like 5th Gen. everything, but they're already working on 6th Gen. stuff and, and at least designing 7th Gen. stuff at this point. So some of it's probably that, and then there's probably like a small percentage of it that is actually, it's got to be at least interdimensional, if not some kind of spiritual situation. Because I was just watching Shawn Ryan as well, and I was listening to him talk to Avi Loeb, who's the astrophysicist, right?

33:12 What? A good episode, that was. Yeah, great episode. He's talking about all the stuff. Now listen, I'm I'm the first one to say that the information we're getting about spaces is bullshit, right? Like the data is this or whatever, right? They could lie to us and this guy could definitely be spewing whatever psyop about space to all of us. But if he's not, what he's talking about is that this the distances and, you know, the time it would take to travel and like, where's the lack of space trash and where's the lack of radio signals and just the whole list of things? And Sean Ryan asked him flat out like, is there aliens? You think there's aliens? Like where they at? And he's basically like, I don't see him, bro. I don't see him.

33:53 I'm here looking, man. If anybody wants to see him, it's me, right? So, and you hear this from like Elon Musk and these type of people who you would think would know, right? So if they're not bullshitting us, then they're not here from other planets. They're here from another dimension or a spiritual realm. Demons, right? And some of them could be angelic, right? Some of them don't necessarily have to be. That's what I was going to say. My, my, I got to throw that in. Like, I mean, what? Why assume they're demonic if they're from a spiritual realm? We don't know intent yet, right? Yeah, I mean. For sure. I mean how? I mean, we could just how do you I think that's I guess that's one of my weird concerns. Maybe I'm the, maybe you can call me the, the woke UFO, but I do have this concern that we just put these immediate judgments on.

34:54 I, I guess I don't want it to be another situation where humanity takes and makes assumptions about what this being's intent is or, you know, what they want and, and we respond with such violence in so many cases. And I just, I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not against defending ourselves and protecting, you know, ourselves, but it's just, it's just there's something there for me that makes me want to give the benefit of the doubt for some reason. I don't know, maybe it is the time traveler thing. Maybe it is the idea that they've warned us on so many occasions about what we're doing to ourselves. Or at least in some of the stories, you know, in some of the cases you hear like these, they're the, the concern about what we're doing to the planet, what we're doing to humanity, what we're doing to destroy the Earth. So.

35:49 So something in me tells me that it's not, it can't all be that intent. I don't know. Sorry. Didn't mean to buddy. I disagree Chris shoot nukes at him. I know. We'll find out what they're made of, go right through. Find out what we're made of too. I think the biggest reason that people would jump to them being negative entities is because first of all, it's like it's a human trait for us to fear something that's like in the dark or in the shadows, right? We're always in the back of our DNA memory worried about the Jaguar eating us in the middle of the night. So, you know, when we think about like, what is this? What are you talking about?

36:33 This entity from another dimension or whatever, a spiritual like it's automatically the like default level, like fear because it's like, what are you talking about? I can't see it. You know, it could show up anywhere. What are you talking about? You know, so I think that's why for since people could write things down, it's always been associated or usually associated with negative entities, even if they're not always negative entities, just because even if like I'm sitting here right now, right? Like it if literally an angelic being showed up here, my thought about it is I'd probably be freaked out. Although I understand that the essence of light and love might be overwhelming me to the point where I wouldn't be afraid, but thinking about that event right happening freaks me out, right?

37:20 Like, oh shit, like that's scary. So. Now yet. We have this collective consciousness of there being an other. Like, I mean, you go back so long and people have always been talking about aliens and, you know, visitors and, you know, so it's just it's interesting that, you know, it's so deeply there in the collective consciousness to sort of think that there is an other out there yet to still so naturally have that fear. I. Agree. The others, yeah, that's interesting to me too, because I always wonder if there is other or was other. Well, I guess we know for sure there was other humans at some point, right?

38:03 We evolved with other humans, if you believe that. But are there still right, The hollow Earth thing that was, it's always one of my favorites because to me, if there's somewhere where there could be like huge civilizations of other human like beings, you know, they're not coming from Zeta Reticuli. They're coming from inside the Earth probably, or at least within the solar system. Yeah. I sort of feel that way too. I kind of feel that that it is more local to us somehow. I don't know why I do. I just kind of, I think there's plenty. I mean, look, we just, we just, there's so much unknown about our own planet.

38:48 There's so much space in the ocean. There's so many things that we really have not explored or, you know, you turn over and honestly, I feel like there's so many things that have been hidden from us on Earth. You know, again, it goes back to what we've been taught. Look at, look at some of the things we're discovering, some of the, the archaeology and just data and information we're discovering about, you know, I don't know how to pronounce it. Go black Tempe or whatever. Yeah, you. Know all these things, you know, everything is like hidden from us and, and there's so much yet unexplored about our own earth.

39:28 And I, I, I think that it is very much likely that they are coming from somewhere closer or they exist somewhere closer. And, and I think the other favorite, again, my theories will probably change the rest of my life as well. But I think one of my favorite things is just this idea that we live in a world where our perceptions are filtered. You know, as humans, we currently exist. Where are, you know, we are filtered from viewing certain things in certain ways. And maybe those filters could change, you know, as as we evolve or as consciousness expands or, you know, as we get a microscope or a telescope or we add some of sort of tool to our tool set, we might.

40:10 Start to see the bacteria and viruses for what they are versus, you know, or the aliens or whatever. I mean, I just think there's so much unexplored in our own world that we have, we have to start talking about it and, and applying science to it and stop ignoring it and telling people they're crazy because like, there's so much evidence that we need to start looking at it. Yeah. So what about outside of the realm of UFOs? Is there anything else that you guys look into? I'm definitely interested in Bigfoot too. I think there's definitely and there's definitely a connection there. It was sort of, you know, the UFO thing that led me to cryptids because there is so often that connection of portals or people seeing UFOs, you know, after they saw the Bigfoot or whatever.

41:04 And so I'm definitely, I, I want to get more into the to the Cryptid thing, but I mean, one thing at a time, really. I don't, I don't have time to just jump into, you know, all these topics simultaneously. But I think that's one thing I'd like to explore. And Chris and I also just, we really love the topic of consciousness and, you know, just more philosophical concepts. We've had Doctor James Madden on our show and he's a philosopher. And, you know, half the time we were just talking about kind of what Chris was just saying is, you know, how we as humans operate and how we are just viewing the world through very, you know, very limited in a very limited sense, in a very limited way when you strip it all down. And so, yeah, we, we kind of get into a lot and we get a, we have a lot of little Bunny trails here and there. I mean, we're as human beings on this planet, we're still killing each other over lines and dirt.

42:01 So yeah, we have very limited views of everything. Absolutely. I'll tell you what though, as far as Bigfoot goes, Jeremy has a Bigfoot experience that I would rather have the aliens land in my backyard than have shared his experience with. Oh. Tell us. Tell. Us. Tell us you want to hear. Ah man, if you want. To share the whole thing. No, I mean I I would love to share it. The only thing is, is that my listeners have already heard it like a dozen times. Nope. Nope. Tell it they haven't heard it. Just give us to give us like the quick abbreviated version. All right, so when I was nine years old, I was playing with my BB gun in southern Vermont and I was down at a field that was like right off the property. I'm not going to say whose property it was, but it wasn't my property.

42:50 It was a family members property. And I, there was this deer out in the middle of the field that I had come up to and I was going to shoot her in the butt with ABB gun just cuz, you know, 9 year old boys doing stupid shit, right? Sorry. Excuse me. So I, I, I went to go put her in the crosshairs of this brand new scope that I had. And all of a sudden she's gone. You know, I'm thinking that she just ran off. So I, I kind of trailed a little bit trying to find her. And then I pulled my eye down or the gun down so I can look. And she's on the shoulder of this tall hairy being walking off to like the 2:00 position from where I'm at. And as this thing walks into the tree line, he, he takes or she or he or whatever it was takes this thing, lifts it up by the neck.

43:48 And because of the the deer screaming or doing whatever, you know, yeah, whatever noise it can do. That bleeding sound. They do, yeah. Yeah, it's like takes it and just slams its head up against a tree and then I don't, I don't remember if I put it back over his shoulder or not, but it just continued to walk into the tree line and scared to live and piss out at me like I'm. Oh yeah, I mean, that gives me goosebumps. Like what the? Hell. May or may not have wet myself, but I was 9. Definitely did. I don't think it matters what age you would be, but still. I'm.

44:28 At nine years old, you know what you saw? Yeah. You know. I did not, so no. No, I mean, but in like, in the sense of like being real, like you knew that you weren't. Hallucinated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I definitely knew it was something. It was something physical. It was it was covered in hair. It was on two legs. It wasn't, Yeah. Yeah, It wasn't a bear. Honestly, at at nine years old, I thought it was a werewolf. I didn't. I didn't know what a Bigfoot was. I didn't know, you know, I I mean, yeah, Perry and Henderson's existed at that time, but I I don't, I didn't make that connection. I didn't even know that movie existed at the time. I still haven't watched a lot of movies. Do we need to get into that, guys? We need to. Star Wars do we need to tell the the listeners that for the 100th time, he. Hasn't watched Blur the Rain?

45:11 Time. War. Jeremy's a big movie buff this vacation. Nothing. He's a movie. He's a movie guy. So yeah, I, I originally just thought it was a werewolf. I, I, I, I that's the connection that I made. And it wasn't until I was probably 11 or 12 years old, staying home sick from school one day where I was on the sci-fi channel, you know, back in the day where you had to actually flip through the channels. And I'm watching in search of, I don't know, I, I didn't have any interest in it at all or anything like that. It was just something interesting that was on. Yeah. Because daytime TV used to suck. I don't know if the kids, the kids won't understand that, but it used to be terrible.

45:55 And I was just watching it and they were doing an episode on the Patterson Gimlin film and Bigfoot in general. And I'm like, pretty sure that's what I freaking saw. So yeah, that's and even even until this day. I mean, I'll, I'll tell you that I'm not 100% sure it was a Bigfoot, right? Especially when you have the stories of like dog men around and and other various cryptids and everything. But if you take the location, if you take the time of the year, because it was in spring, it just the the, the way it was walking, it walked very, very human esque like it just brings Bigfoot now that I know what it is. Yeah, absolutely.

46:44 It's interesting because I remember hearing stories. I'm from New Mexico, so, you know, obviously lots of, you know, UFO lore and things like that from from there. But I grew up in the southwest corner, which was in the forest and I grew up hunting and fishing and, and I do remember hearing stories of Bigfoot. I mean, I don't remember who talked about him or, you know, but it just was something that did come up as a kid. But I, you know, I laughed because I talked to people now and I'm like, you know, when I saw the stories about UF OS, I really did not have a concept. I thought they were nut nuts and bolts. You know, I thought we were talking about physical craft and, and then when you get into the topic, that's where everything just changes. And you know, your, your perspective changes because you start to hear people's stories, you start to hear these experiences and you recognize that somehow there's something way beyond the physical that's involved. So the story you tell Jeremy reminds me of a, a gal we had on our show on one of our episodes.

47:56 And she, she was, she's a, the head of the UFO Society of at Yale. And she had an experience like two or three years ago at a public park in the Pacific Northwest, her and a girlfriend. And they saw like a UFO 1st and it disappeared and then they saw like a Bigfoot or something that I, she didn't describe it as Bigfoot, but like a physical corpial being. And you know, just like, that's what I'm saying. These, these commonalities between these stories, the scene, these lights or this, you know, craft and then a Bigfoot nearby.

48:37 It's all like so fascinating to me how it's tied in together or or why it appears to be anyway. Yeah, I I'm a big book nerd. I I have a lot of books back here. This is only one of my libraries. I have a library upstairs too. Carter Bushard, you need to talk to Carter. Well, Carter Bushard's not the not the route I was going to. That's the mind speak Bigfoot. But if, if she's really interested, if you are interested in the UFO Bigfoot connection, I highly recommend an author named Stan Gordon. He's from Pennsylvania and he dives really heavily into the the entire connection between Bigfoot and flying saucers or other various UFOs, especially like the the lights, like the, the orange light, the the white light that people see. Very, very interesting.

49:27 I have. I think I have a follower who has met him, I think a while back, yeah. Someone told me they were in Beijing. Is he? Still, is he still alive? I believe he is. I believe he is. I'm. Pretty sure a while back I had a follower message me saying that he was going to lunch with him. Yeah, Stan Gordon is, I'm going to be honest with you. He's a he's a certain flavor, right? So if you don't have an open mind when it comes to a possible connection between Bigfoot and UF OS, I would not read it. But if you have an open mind, you're willing to look down every Ave. he he definitely brings some really good evidence to the table. Does he come to any sort of conclusion about why there's the connection there?

50:15 I don't not in this book. I have another book by him too. I don't I just don't know where it is. And honestly not in that one too. But he has a bunch of books and he he has to at some point very early in our our time of being a podcast. I was going to reach out to him. I probably should just to see. You probably should. Yeah, probably should. You probably should. Yeah, I guess I should. People said it, and you know that that's probably a question that I could just ask him in person. That'd be really cool actually. That would be. Yeah, anybody from Pennsylvania who is interested in Bigfoot or or UF OS and possibly the connection, I highly, highly recommend Stancord and very, very good stuff.

51:04 Isn't CJ in Pennsylvania? He is in Pennsylvania. He is. He is better. Do the thing. Yeah, well, he quit. So, CJ, CJ, you're dead to me. Yeah, you're dead to us, CJ. We don't even win. Yes for CJ. Yeah. We're not going to make money off of your feet. Right. I don't back these guys, CJ, I'm not on their. Team. I'm on your team. I want that because he still listens to every episode. He's a, he's a trooper. Loves CJ. Yeah, we love you even though you're dead to us. We. Can send it to your feet too. We. Might not post them, but we might to play them in the calendar. So, CJ. Was, was the 4th corner corner for us. He was the occultist witchcraft, you know, the, the paranormal, that kind of stuff.

51:53 So we we really had everything kind of. That's really cool. I mean, I like that, that diversity of thought and. Yeah, and then he left us so. The arguments we would get in, they were so good. They were. Good. You'll have to. You'll have to send us some of like, your best, your best argumentative episodes, and we'll give it a listen. I live for that. Yeah. Right, Yeah, I, I can't name off the top of my head. There's so many. There's so many. See, this face is fake. The Babe. I don't think he was in that one. He wasn't, but that was pretty argumentative. Oh. Yes. Dinosaurs are fake.

52:34 Yep. We got heated in that one. We've had some some classic arguments on this show. Usually when I say something is fake it gets pretty heated, yeah. We're still waiting on the nukes are fake. He hasn't. He hasn't come to the. Back, you guys are waiting on the nukes are fake. You're waiting on Gravity's fake. I mean, listen, OK. Look, well, Jeff is Jeff is this sort of guy. So he's just like he's like, I'm not saying that nukes are fake, even though he just said it. He's like, I'm just saying that I've never seen a nuke. I know there's large explosions. That doesn't mean it's nuclear or gravity. Well, gravity is just a term that people place on, you know, the idea of if you drop something, it falls to the ground. That doesn't mean that it's gravity. It's just what they call it.

53:18 I'm like, I'm just gonna leave. I'm done. Oh. Man, have you met my son? I feel like he will argue about anything I say so. Listen, I can make some pretty good arguments. I've changed these guys minds on more than one thing. So with you 3 bringing such a different perspectives, I mean, what is your thought on just, you know, is there ultimate truth? I mean, if everybody is always having their own beliefs and you all think that you're right, I mean, how are you ever supposed? I mean, are you just saying, OK, I'm good to just, you know, this is my belief and I can respect your belief? Or do you take it that step further of like, no one of us is right and the rest of you are wrong, but then you all think you're right and the rest of you are wrong? Like how do you kind of navigate that? So the problem with that is that I think that's like the scientific method is to allow for the possibility of even myself being wrong.

54:25 But the problem is with the topics that we cover. I mean, a Snallygaster would have to breakthrough my window for me to believe the Snallygasters exist, right? Like, like I'd have to see one straight up. So I mean, we, we don't really take that approach. It's kind of like, here's our hard stance on it, but I could be wrong type stuff, right? Because you know, when it comes to Bigfoot, whether or not he's able to mind speak or it's able to mind speak or it has a connection with UFOs or in my mind, it's just another animal that God created because they, we had the Gigantopithecus at some point, some point people cross from Asia over the Bering Straight land bridge and got in North America and we got Native Americans and all this sort of stuff. Why didn't animals do the same thing? You know, so that's that's where I fall in that category. But when with any of these things, with aliens, with the idea that maybe there's pterodons flying around in South America somewhere and or you know, that there's gargoyles in, in Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rican gargoyles or the Chupacabra exists or whatever it is, there is ultimate truth. We just don't know it, right?

55:44 There is an ultimate, yes, this exists or no, this does not exist, but we don't know it. So when it comes to those sorts of topics. Right. It's very much like these are my opinions on it, but it could always change when it came to the hollow Earth. I'm just like, I'm not buying what Admiral Byrd had to say about his journey to the hollow Earth. Could it exist? I guess I, you know, there's no way for me to know because I'm, I'm not physically myself going to take a trip to Antarctica to go find the giant hole in the ground to go explorer to see if there's a hollow Earth. I'm just it's never going to happen. You know, I don't have any funds for that sort of nonsense.

56:26 I got bills right. So but so a lot of these topics that we have yes, there is an ultimate truth. Now we don't know it right, except for when it comes to I would say the only thing where I am 100% you can't shake me is on my faith in Christ. Like that's it, right. So is that my? Question, Jake. What's that? How do you? How are you so sure about that and nothing else? Like when you say when and I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, but when you say like, if I see, you know, I have to see a chupacabra or I have to what it?

57:08 Why is it different with God? I would say the history science backing itself into the Bible constantly through scientific discoveries the the culture at the time of Jesus. Like even non Christian historians and paleontologists. Archaeologists that mean not paleontologists. Archaeologists agree that Jesus existed, right? They agree that he had a bunch of followers that went to their death. Very rarely do people actually allow themselves to be executed for things they know is a lie. So they 100% believe that they saw what they saw.

57:48 So there's the historical aspect of it, the cultural aspect of it, of of his existence, the way that there's portions of the Bible where it's like Mary and Mary Magdalene was the first one to go to Jesus tomb. If this was a fantasy thing written by Jewish, you know, authors of the time to this great guy that we know named Jesus, they would never have a woman discovering the the empty tomb first. It would always be a man because culturally the woman was, you know, underneath the man, right? So there's just a lot of that.

58:32 So for you, it's still, there's still, you still use evidence to persuade or to, to support your belief system, like evidence of other people's testimony, other people's, you know, in the same way that, you know, somebody, a group of people, you know, might see UFOs together, you know, I mean, like, see what I'm saying? There's there's, there's still historical evidence, like earlier when we were talking about, you know, technology and, and, and Black Ops, you know, government, but like we're talking about, you know, 50, sixty, 7080 years ago. Like did this stuff exist then? You know, there's still people back then that were testifying to these things.

59:18 So it's like. I'm not saying that they didn't see what they saw, I'm just saying that they're wrong, you know? Well, how come Mary Magdalene wasn't wrong? Like, I mean, what convinces you of that story versus what other people saw? I I, you know, I again, sure, maybe I'm just starting a debate having just. Playing well. You're just playing devil's advocate. It's OK, yeah. No, I mean, you know, that's, that's true. You know, we could have our own bias and stuff. Yeah, I. Think there's something to say because like I'm not necessarily me me and Jacob had long talks about this before right and they're not the religious type, but I do have like a spiritual tendency I guess, right like I, I believe in some form of higher power right but I I think. Really what happens is like when you start to think about something that's on that level, like that's why they call it faith first of all, right, like you have to just put faith into something, right?

1:00:15 Whatever religion it is or whatever your faith goes into, you just put the faith into it. There's no way to prove one way or the other, but there's something to be said about the fact that like the, the Bible itself, whether or not it's been manipulated throughout history, the the fact remains that that the book has lasted through history and encoded within that book are important pieces, right? This is something I've always been interested in, right? All that Bible code shit back in the day, there's all these people that talk about, Hey, look, you can, you can find information encoded in this Bible, whether it's like chemistry related stuff like how they encode the colors and and things like this, how the church was putting this stuff in the book back in the days, just that.

1:00:57 And it's in and of itself, all the information that has tracked its way through 2000 plus years through history is a miracle in itself, right? So me not being a religious person per SE, still hold that information and like the historical information in that book and all the other stuff that's secretly encoded. And maybe some of it's not, but there is definitely some stuff in there. Like to me, like I hold that on some pedestal, right? It's not just. It's not just another book or another story. Right. And I would say the same for any of these major religious texts, right? You could dig one out of a cave right now for some culture that none of us talk about.

1:01:37 And I would, I would say the same thing. I'd be like, wow, that lasted 8000 years in that cave and we're digging it up today to read it and translate it with AI or whatever it is. Like there's a reason for that, right? So there's something there, at least from my perspective. So I think going back to your question, like how do we come to terms with some of the stuff with each other? Sometimes is we kind of leave a little bit of room, at least I do. I like to leave room for that kind of thing, right. So when I, when I go on a tangent about like, hey, man, you know, weather modifications, real, you know, I'm not necessarily saying, hey, they're creating hurricanes or anything, not necessarily saying that they are steering them or anything like that. I'm just saying like they could be. And if you were them and you could do it, would you? And that's kind of you just leave enough room so at the end of the episode, we could cut it somewhere and be like, all right, look, man, we agree enough. That's that's a good point because you know, the Bible in itself is 40 different authors over 1500 years talking about people's walk with God that they couldn't meet up to his standards.

1:02:37 And so God said, all right, well, you guys suck, so I'm going to do it for you. And all I require for me from you is a relationship with me. That's all it is. The platypus exists and the Bible doesn't say anything about the platypus. So there is room for scientific discovery and zoological discovery and discovery of other types of history, right? It doesn't go into the history of the Mongols in the Bible, but we know that the Mongols existed, right? So it's like, you know, with the exception of who I say Jesus is and what Jesus did for humanity, a lot is is left open and very rarely and very rarely.

1:03:22 Alien life too. I mean, God could have created alien life across the Galaxy. It certainly could, and to that I would say that I find it to be incredibly unlikely just because of the lack of evidence of aliens besides Uaps and UFOs and onesie twosie events where people say they actually had contact. But when it really boils down to it, it's nothing more than just their saying them saying I had this experience, right? There's a whole new real other. Explanation, right, Yeah, so and very rarely in our podcast do we ever get into heart like we're not bringing on a Islamic imam, right? We're not bringing a Buddhist monk on and being like, well, what do you believe?

1:04:09 Right. So there's never really an opportunity where I'm going to have a full on, you know, faith-based debate with someone. And I don't think that there's anyone here on the show that would ever, that, you know, between Jeff or Jeremy that would ever say Jesus existed as a person. Now, they might say he, you know, his deity ship is in question. And that's, you know, of course, what Jeff said where faith comes in. But yeah, I mean, as far as I'm concerned with it when it comes to aliens, I mean, there's probably some cool looking cows somewhere on another planet, you know, I mean, like, why not, right? A cool science experiment or whatever. But I mean, it's like it just for me, it's, it's if we were to take all the spiritual stuff out of aliens, Uaps and all that sort of stuff. If I took all that stuff off the table and I just said that there is a physical being out there that tends to visit us from time to time, well, then I would need physical evidence for that, right?

1:05:14 And they just, it's lacking now, whether that's because of government cover ups or because they just kind of zip in and zip out and that's it. That's all they're doing is kind of observing stuff like that. Well, all right, well, that's cool. But there's still a lack of that hardcore physical evidence. Like, I won't want to show up on the news, right, or whatever it is, right, If they're so big into, like, all the stuff going on in the world. OK, Well then have a meeting with NATO. Well, what about the like the implants, the implant phenomenon, Like there's so many people that have had things taken out of their body like metallic objects. I'm sure Chris could speak to that. Does that qualify as evidence to you?

1:05:56 No, because a human being could do that to someone. I could I could have thrown Jeff when he was visiting my house in the ice bath and taken all of his both of his kidneys out. Doesn't mean it was the aliens, right? So I mean. Well, there is, there's definitely like my lab projects. How advanced are you guys familiar with my labs? I talked about this a lot, military abductions. And again, military is is kind of a psyop term in itself because it's probably not the military. It's probably some right secret. Other corporations. Yeah. These my lab operations where they abduct people and pretend that it's aliens. Those those operations have existed. How advanced they are, I don't know. Was it just like them pulling up in a suburban dressed up as aliens and like they drug you and like you think that you got abducted?

1:06:43 Or are they pulling up in some like super advanced UAP that we just had no idea that exists since the 70s or whatever? You know what I mean? Like either one is possible. And there's been whistleblowers that have come out and said that the more extreme has happened. So I it's possible that none of this is aliens is what all I'm saying. This is why I went back to 95% of this is probably here Honor. Jeff is definitely like my grounding point when it comes to aliens because he's he's, I mean, he'll pull up a patent for the tier 3B or for a non gasoline, you know, anti gravity defying, you know, propulsion system that the federal government has and they'll just whip it out and send a link to it. You can read the entire, you know, the entire whatever it is patent on it and it's just like.

1:07:37 Because they back engineered the alien craft and that's how the that's how the government has it, guys. Obviously, but it's like, so you know, I'll I'll hear stuff like this and I'll be like, well, I'm being clearly, you know. I think. There's. It's just heard. It's our own folks. They're just, you know, doing wild stuff. I don't know where I heard this, but I've heard it. And it makes perfect sense to me that the intelligence agencies have an incentive to cede the public with alien propaganda. The incentive is, is if, if we're creating something that's just like so far ahead of the of whatever Iran trying to take your pick, right, wherever the enemy is today, if, if we're developing something that's so far advanced, we don't want them to know anything about it, right?

1:08:25 It's perfectly reasonable for them to like propagate the news cycle and like take over. Like when they had all the news covering the UAP hearings and stuff like that and was like, oh, everybody was like, Oh my God, is disclosure gonna happen? Like everybody like, no, it's a distraction. No, it's not. It's not really a distraction. It's just they're muddying the water. They're just like, we don't know where this is. And, and dude is like, yeah, there's biologicals we got, we got biologics that we've recovered and shit. And it's like, dude, you're being super vague and like that could mean anything, right? So to me, it's not really aliens. They don't have to back engineer this stuff. I mean, a lot of this technology is, is stuff that they that people have explained, right?

1:09:07 Like mathematicians. I've sat and listened to like 6 hour podcast with some of these nerds that explain how this could be done. There's no reason to think that, like, a couple billionaires could roll some of them together and be like, yo, let's make this happen and just, you know, just be quiet. I mean, I, I can get on board with that to a point. I mean, but back to the government being competent. I mean, for them to pull off, I mean, for them to pull off like, let's like make this propaganda, but we can't make it too much. Like we have to walk this perfect line of making sure that we're seating yet not going overboard so people don't freak out because we don't want to like have to deal with the fact that we could be accused of a cover up. I mean, you're talking a very detailed complicated like spanning decades and decades where this would have had to be passed down through generation to generation to generation. I mean, what you're talking about would just to pull that off like that just doesn't seem like it just seems way more like way more believable than it is actually aliens and like someone trying to pull off this huge complicated plan. Does that make?

1:10:14 Sense I don't it does and, but I don't think it'd be as complicated as it might seem. I mean, if you, if you own, if you own, you know, all of the major media corporations through from like the 40s on, up until the Internet comes out, which they did, right? You have a chokehold on all information. This is why nobody knew about Epstein. This is why nobody knew about Diddy. This is why nobody knew about any of the crazy shit that's been happening that we're all starting to figure out now. But it eventually comes out. That's what that's what we're trying to say, is that it eventually comes out because people can't keep their mouth shut. And you know, I've I've. Probably this will come out too. It is coming out. I've brought this up a dozen times on the show before. Jake and I are both military vets, and Chris, you, you could probably attest to this too. The military is, it sucks and it's it's not good at what everyone thinks it does.

1:11:07 Not efficient, it's not. Yeah. This is why I always go back to that. I struggle with sorry. One question I have is like you guys being aviation, maybe you can answer this for me because one of the things I have a hard time believing is that we would send, you know, military tests, Black Ops, green triangles over a ship in the San Diego Bay, not notify anyone. And, and like, like, why would we attack our own like, or expect to display this, this technology over our own ships and not expect them to react or attack or do?

1:11:47 Why would we do it there? Why would why would they do that constantly? It seems like. Right, We wouldn't. And this is exactly why I think that it's not the the government, right? You're right, the government's incompetent. They can't build roads. So yeah, I'm with you, 100. Percent on that. Very incompetent. It's not the government, it, you know, there's probably like a handful of. People. There's. Boeing for people, one of them, Yeah. Boeing rate fee online, Martin Northrop Grumman. I mean, dude, take your pick. BlackRock is probably funneling so much money through so many shell companies that are going into companies that none of us ever even heard about, right? Like I just listed off like five of them that we all know of, right? There's probably 5000 of them that nobody knows of, right?

1:12:28 It's called ABC Incorporated or whatever the hell it is, and it's some black budget program. But if the government can't be cohesive, what makes you think that another group could be cohesive and do that? Because the private sector, the private sector better at everything. Money, I think I mean because, well, let's look at the, you know, like you said, totally off topic, but like the ditty thing, I mean, they can only keep it quiet for like 30 years or so, right? I mean, there's, there seems like a limit on people's ability to keep seeing silent despite the power, the money, the influence, the fear, You know, it just seems like at some point things first, you know?

1:13:11 I want to, I want to just respond to what you said like you can't change human psychology. And you're absolutely right. I'm, I, I agree, the people that are doing this behind the scenes, not government, right? These, these people, this, I call it the breakaway civilization because to me that's what it really is, right? They're shitty people in my opinion, They're corrupt. They're they're pulling strings behind the scene that are making our society a living hell. So it's not, you know, I'm not claiming that like they're doing a great job with all of this. I'm they're doing a terrible job. They're fudging it up. They're using this free energy technology or whatever else they have in ways that they shouldn't be. And it's fucking everything up. Right. So I'm with you on all of I agree. I think we both agree.

1:13:53 I just think that maybe like the possibilities of what they're able to do. And when I say they, I'm talking about the breakaway people. Yeah, I think, I think that they can do more than we think they can. That's that's super secret group of people that run the world. They're not even super secret. There's a handful of them in government. There's a handful of them that own like corporations, a few billionaires, a few Saudi Princess that are trillionaires, you know? Yeah, it's just a handful. People right? No. Some of them. Are not all. Of them. That's the whole thing, too. I could go on a rant about that because I know it's a joke and we all joke about the lizard people. Think I joke about the lizard people thing, but no person who really understands that conspiracy thinks that anybody's actually a lizard.

1:14:39 That's not the I always go on these in debate, like when I do debates with flat about Flat Earth, right. I don't think the earth is flat. I just understand what the flat earthers really think, not what everybody thinks they think. So I'll I'll debate on their behalf, right, Yes, yes. So yes. No, I I actually love this conversation. This has been so good. Good this is. What we do, this is every episode. This is our argument, yeah. I love it, I love it. Yeah, I feel. Go ahead. No, go ahead, please. Chris, I really didn't have anything. Oh. No. OK, well, shoot, I mean, we we went down a bunch of rabbit holes there. Yep.

1:15:22 I hate, I hate, hate to cut it short, but we're already. Yep, an hour and a half into this recording. Yeah. And Jeff is probably freaking out right now. Yeah. My bedtime was when we started. Look at them. Wow. I didn't realize. It was that far in right it goes. Fast here in the Internet? That's crazy. So much fun. Look at Jeff. Look at him, he's all tuckered. Out look at him. The chats been going great. The chat is packed. People have been blowing up the chat this whole time. Do we have anything in the chat that we need to? Need to ask does anybody in the chat have any questions for Chris or Ariel? Well? Wollen said. I worked at Northrop. Grumman had a secret clearance and couldn't see the F35 so they can keep a lot of stuff silent with top secret.

1:16:04 Security clearance is usually a reason for it. So our enemies can't get the layouts for any of it. Right. And This is why I don't think the military's involved too, because it's just too much risk for the military to do this stuff. It's it's just assholes who probably had a contract with the military at some point, right, to develop the SR3B or whatever it was, right. And once that contract was done and they were done and their clearances were pulled and all that shit, they had some knowledge. They were like, wait a minute, dude, there's free energy technology. Like we could just get together some other people, some some billionaires and so on. And we can just do our own thing on the side. Nobody will know about it. And by the time we have some device and the government finds out about it, well, we've got the device. So what are they going to do? You know, And I think that's kind of what happened. I don't think Jeff is. That tired.

1:16:46 Based on. He's still, he's still going, he's still going. So tired. Look at him. I just get he's basically sleeping. This is. Yeah, I'm in a. Flow state I could do this while. I'm sleeping. He's awake while sleeping, just like, just like Chris. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah. This is his eyes open. It's weird he Astro projects. Into. Into Lockheed Martin's, like, top secret bunkers. And then he comes back on the show and tells us about it and we're like, you're full of crap, you're an idiot. No, I've seen it. Well, this has been so much. Fun guys, we really. Appreciate you. Inviting us on and just chilling and having an awesome conversation. I hope we can do it again sometime. Yeah, for sure.

1:17:28 Just fun. All right, so I'm gonna go. Ahead and close out if you guys can just hang. On just a minute after we shut down, we'll just go over a few things before we do though, do you let's get you guys to share your, your, your, your socials and any other links, websites, platforms that you would like to share with all listeners of the Infinite Rabbit Hole. Go ahead, Ariel. Yeah, you can. Find me on XA. KA Twitter at AES Sky Watcher and our YouTube is the elephant in the room 411. So there's several Elephant in the Room podcast, but ours is the Elephant in the Room 411 on YouTube, right, Chris? Yes, I was just looking it up to make sure because. I'm really bad about that.

1:18:18 So yeah, Elephant in the Room 411 is how you will find us. Right on. And I'm. Chris Devine, I'm pretty much. Only on Twitter and yeah love and I do have a a YouTube channel which has a few videos and hopefully one day I'll have more better videos to upload there when I get some help with that. But yeah it's we'd love for you guys to follow us and and and join our show and we'd love to have you guys return the favor and have you guys come join our show one day That would be amazing Love talking about this subject and it's been fun.

1:18:59 I really really appreciate the invite and different like differing opinions never scare us like. We're always up for it. We we enjoy it. We love getting other people's perspective. So this is this is definitely our jam. Good stuff. Good. Jeff went ahead and linked your socials in the chat. I think, I think the highest we got to today was 15 people. We've only been doing Twitch for a few weeks. Our been about been about a month now, right Something like that, maybe a month now if you are. Watching right now on. Twitch and you're not following or whatever you can do on Twitch is a follow or subscribe right now follow we're a few short and then we.

1:19:42 Can get subscribers. If you're not following, please hit the follow button. Help us get. To our 50 followers so that we can become what is it? What are we're trying to become? Jeff Affiliates. Thanks, man. You finished my sentences. It's like we're trying. To become what's it called? Affiliate Affiliates. Yeah. Just just another way to make money off podcasts. It's yeah. Hey, yeah. I mean, we only get I think. We get like 1/2 a penny per play through a Spotify, so it's not much, but it opens up formations and things like that. So right, that's. True for those who died said go to. Bed, Jeff. Go to bed, dude.

1:20:25 All right. Well, Jake, Jeff, you guys got anything to say before we leave? Goodnight, Ariel. Chris, thanks for. Coming on the show, thanks for having a a fun little. I wouldn't call it a debate, but a discussion where we disagreed with everything we said. It was fun. I would like. To come on I I think I'd speak for all the guys we'd like to come on your guys's show. I think it'd be pretty dope. So it'd be a be a fun time. But yeah, thanks for for. Hanging out with us for an hour. And a half. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, you bet. Awesome. Thank you guys for having us. It was. Fun. I love it. Let's keep up the dialogue and keep up the conversation. I think that's what the world needs. I mean, if nothing else, it opens up our curiosity and our mind and, and you know, and it keeps, I think having more conversations like this takes the other difficult conversations in life that none of us like to have, like about politics.

1:21:24 But, you know, those are sometimes conversations we have to have with each other in order to move each other forward. And one thing I always like to say, people are afraid of aliens and others and all that. And sometimes I'm more afraid of each other as humans. So these dialogues, I think, are what we need to just contribute to a better society. So thank you guys for for being open to do that. Nicely said. Right on. Well, that has been. Another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. I am your host, Jeremy, and we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Oh, oh, oh, and, and and hold on. And and and next Sunday on October 20th. Halloween costumes.

1:22:14 Is what we're on. I forgot. Oh, wow. Yep, wow. So, Jeff? Go. You better go to. Your local Halloween store and buy your $5 mask. Are we going to have been pulling out by a hurricane? There is no Halloween store. Anymore. Oh no, there's a spirit open. They'll they'll find like a shipping container or something. I got, I already got it in I'm yeah, all right. Next Sunday, anybody in the? Chat, make sure you're here. It's going to be hilarious. We're all going to look stupid. I love it, dude. He's going to work. Jeff's going to wear exactly what he's wearing now. And be like I'm Eminem. No, I'm the. Real Slim Shady. Oh yeah, and the topic is Men in Black part. Three, where we go over encounters. So we did all the information in Part 1, Part 2. We're going to cover encounters and other stories in Part 3. All right, well, I'm going to do this one more time. That has been another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.

1:23:14 This time it's for real travelers. We will see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite rabbit hole. Bye, everybody. Bye bye. Ariel, you guys say bye. Oh bye, there it is. Hey everybody, thanks for checking out the Infinite Rabbit. Hole Podcast. If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out.

1:23:56 And until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the infinite rabbit hole. Bye.