200. Stoned Ape Theory

0:39 In 1992, ethnobotanist Terence McKenna introduced a groundbreaking theory addressing a long standing mystery in proto human development. In his book Food of the Gods, The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge, McKenna presented his hypothesis, sparking debates and decades of intrigue and deep discussion. For years scientists have debated 1 pressing question how did the human brain double in size over a mere 10,000 years, when evolutionary changes typically take millions of years to alter physical forms? This rapid growth paved the way for cognitive and social advancements, ultimately shaping the modern humans we are today, complete with society's beliefs and cultures.

1:32 Mckenna's theory aligns with the widely accepted Savannah hypothesis, which suggests that early humans transitioned from treetops to life on the ground due to receding forests caused by climate change. While the Savannah hypothesis explains how we evolved into upright, hairless beings, transitioning from the genus Pan to Homo, Mckenna's focus was on our brains extraordinary evolution. Specifically, he questioned how our ancestors achieved such rapid advancements in brain size and intelligence. As our ancestors adapted to life on the African Savannah, they encountered something absent in the trees.

2:15 Animal shit. Specifically the feces of grazing herbivores, such as hooved animals that roam the grasslands. This dung provided the perfect environment for a certain type of fungus to grow, a fungus containing psychoactive compounds. It only took one curious primate to pick up a mushroom from a pile of dried shit, chew it, and experience a psychedelic journey. According to McKenna, this seemingly simple act marked the beginning of humanity's extraordinary cognitive evolution. This pivotal moment when our distant ancestor consumed a psychedelic mushroom growing in animal dung may have set humanity on a trajectory of enlightenment.

3:02 McKenna proposed that this event unlocked new ways of thinking, laying the groundwork for religion, culture, technology, language, art, architecture, and even self-awareness. Today we explore Terence Mckenna's Stoned Ape theory. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole, right? Welcome to Infinite Rabbit Hole, everybody. Today on this groovy Sunday, on our 200th episode, we're going to talk about the stone date theory. We're also going to introduce the host, since Jake always gets really mad that I introduce him first. We're going to every time. Jeff.

3:43 Jeffrey, what's up? How you doing, man? Feeling groovy, huh? Feeling groovy? I'm feeling pretty groovy, man. Yeah, I'm stoked. This is one of my favorite topics in general. Super interesting. It is. It's fucking awesome. And I like that mine has a lot of purple on it cuz it's my favorite color. Yeah. Yeah. We could have, we could have purpled you up a little bit better than. Well, now you know. Now I know I I guess you're just going to have to buy one. Feel free to purple mine up can you pin my can you pin my chat message so that it stays up for all the newcomers in the chat and the one with the alerts on it.

4:24 That way everybody knows what's going on. Pinned gotcha. Perfect. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm happy. You're doing good, man. Good. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, that was awkward, Jake. Here you go. What's up dude? Nice room. Appreciate it. Yeah, I just got it all set up again today and I'll be building some floating shelves back there, putting ATV up on the wall so it has the infinite rabbit hole logo while we're doing this. Then also I can just spin around and watch like documentaries, like research purposes, what not. But bro, last night was fun, bro. We had Skeeter and his wife Amanda over and I definitely over served myself and the Doug's shot collar came out and I watched those videos this morning and I was like, wow, no wonder where my jaw hurts sticking the shot collar on my neck and zapping me and stuff like that. Whitney's like, oh, I'm going to countdown. I was like just do it.

5:18 Just don't count. It was fun. I smoked like I think it was 6 racks of ribs. But yeah, having them over it was, it was great. I know hopefully we'll see something good podcast wise come from that. That remains to be determined as far as like what we're going to announce and everything but. Oh, we can't announce it. Well, we asked Skeeter, 'cause he's, he is a tech guy, he, he DJs, weddings and things like that. And when we did the the Elmwood UFO Days event, every presenter before us had a microphone that sounded like they were talking through a bucket of water. Just want, want, want, want, want. And then the the projector, the projector was a little bit small for the size of the screen they were trying to put it on, but it was still super blurry. And so before we got on there, Skeeter messed around with the audio and the the video and got everything kind of dialed in as best as he could.

6:15 So we were able to come in really crystal clear and then the the video or the slideshow we had up was actually was was pretty clear as well. And so Jeremy and I had him and his wife over for dinner or they came over to our house and asked him, Hey, man, you want to be our tech guy? You know, I don't know where that will go to. It might be, you know, when we eventually get an actual studio and we, we do something like that or when we do presentations or whatever, you know, come along with us and help us to set up all the tech stuff. And because we don't know anything about it, but he does. So it's pretty cool. So they, they come over played Cards Against Humanity. And yeah, it's, it's a good time.

6:56 It's a lot of fun. Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah. No, we're going to, we need to start slowly growing the team. I mean, we, we've got some things on the horizon that are going to require a bit more people. And, and Skeeter fits really well and he's local, you know, so he's not not far away. Yeah, he did a hell of a good job at UFO days saved our ass for sure, and that that was incredibly appreciated. But yeah, so we about to do this first giveaway. Let's let's do this because it it doesn't always.

7:39 We got to wait a little while, I think, right? Because more new people may join the chat, right? OK. Well, we're going to we're going to do a couple giveaways today. OK. And is that message pinned? Like there's no limit on that timer, right? I just want to. Yeah, you know, I put it there for good. All right, so let's do this. We're going to read through the next section and by the end of the next section when I'm done reading it. So get this done as quick as you can. I want you to go and tell us in the chat what episode 8 is. If you could tell us what episode 8 is, Your name will be added to the randomizer that Crystal's going to do. Like they get another raffle, like another ticket. Is that how we're doing that?

8:25 Well, because it doesn't show everybody's name, I'll make sure everyone gets it. So in order to be in the raffle, you got to be active in the chat. Oh. Yeah, she everybody who said anything in the chat thus far is on the randomizer. So except for her and Jake. OK, well, that's fine. We could, we could do that then that works. If you're in the chat, say something by the end of the next section and you will get added to the thing. And we will we'll we'll pick right after that so. She's got a I'll let you know how this is working so that you could think about this, right? Because I see you thinking it's a wheel, right? And she can add whatever name she wants to the wheel. So if there, if you want to add trivia to it, if whoever's like the first person to get the get it in the chat, for instance, like we can give your name twice on the wheel, right? So you have like another raffle ticket for instance. Yeah, well fuck, let's do that.

9:20 Yeah, you could be on the wheel 456 times if you're the first person to get the answers right on the trivias and then you obviously your chances of winning are much higher. All right, episode 8 if you want to get your name on the wheel for a second, second spot sound good? There you go. All right, let's we're going to read off this next section and by the time we're done reading it Crystal, we'll before we do our thoughts and stuff, we'll we'll jump right into all right, you guys ready? I didn't hear anything. I don't have you guys up right now. Yeah, I'm muted. Oh OK, good. Psilocybin and Evolution Psilocybin is a naturally occurring psychedelic compound found in over 200 species of fungi.

10:07 When ingested, it produces a range of physical and psychological effects, including pupil dilation, increased heart rate, elevated blood pressure, vivid visual hallucinations, psychosis, and even panic. These experiences, collectively known as a trip, can vary greatly depending on the type of mushroom consumed, the user's environment, and their emotional state at the time, factors that often determine whether the trip is positive or negative. Although psilocybin remains illegal in most of the United States, exceptions exist, such as its supervised use in Oregon and California.

10:50 To many, the prohibition of such substances might seem self-evident. Drugs are bad, OK, but what if compounds like psilocybin, DMTLSD, katamine, peyote, and ayahuasca hold the key to unlocking untapped potential within humanity? More intriguingly, what if psilocybin, a naturally occurring compound, played a pivotal role in shaping the very essence of modern human cognition? A common misconception is that psilocybin containing mushrooms, often called magic mushrooms, grow exclusively on the feces of grass fed cattle.

11:31 While animal dung, particularly that of herbivores, provides an ideal growth medium, these fungi are not limited to that environment. Terence Mckenna's Seminole work Food of the Gods. The search for the original tree of knowledge highlights evidence suggesting that ancient humans consumed psilocybin laced mushrooms nearly 1,000,000 years before the domestication of cattle in Africa. McKenna also draws attention to a puzzling discrepancy in evolutionary timelines. While physical adaptations in humans, such as changes in brain size, typically unfold over 10s of millions of years, the human brain underwent a traumatic transformation in just three million years, with the most significant growth occurring within the last 10,000 This rapid evolution, which doubled brain size and introduced complex cognitive abilities like language, self reflection, and culture, defies conventional understanding of evolutionary processes. Why did such groundbreaking changes occur in such a brief period?

12:41 McKenna proposed that psilocybin mushrooms might have been the catalyst. He theorized that early human ancestors, upon consuming these fungi, experienced profound hallucinations and altered perceptions, which introduced them to novel ideas, unexplainable entities, and abstract environments. These experiences, McKenna suggested, may have accelerated brain development by rewriting neural pathways and adapting the mind to process new complex inputs. Just as modern tribes in the Amazon chew Espio leaves for medicinal purposes, addressing issues like indigestion and inflammation, our ancient ancestors may have discovered the benefits of psilocybin mushrooms. Over time, these fungi may have become a staple in their diet and culture, sparking an unprecedented leap in cognition and paved the way for the emergence of modern humanity. All right, there it is, man.

13:44 There's a lot of people. That's why it's illegal. They don't want humans to get better than what they are. Facts. Yeah, that's it. All right. We ready to do it. OK, so for those who died, was the first one to put the correct answer Kid was the first one to put the entire answer. So do we put both names on the wheel? I was just going to go to whoever answered it. OK, so then for those who died, gets another the second name on the wheel. I see. Yeah, she's put Part 2. Got it. Yeah, I don't think it needs to be that technical. We'll we'll go with for those who died, kid. Kids got an in for it anyway. She's she's all right.

14:26 Are you going to do it? All right, You're going to do it now. He's going to. Do the first. One, yeah, put it up on the screen. That way we could start talking about this. Yeah, share it on the screen. You want me to do it? Yeah. OK, I got you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, guys. Just the first time we're doing this so. I'm sorry everybody. Shut up. There you go. Wait. Skeeter says he's out of. The draw? Well, he's in it now. That's it. 5 people, that's it. That's it. That's all that's been in the chat. Bro we got we got we. Had If you want a free shirt, you got to say something in the chat. Just say hi, say you guys suck, whatever it is. I don't care. Say we hate this show. We're watching it and laughing at you, not with you.

15:08 I don't care what you say. All right, I'm not with. You spin the wheel, let's do this. Who's got a shirt? There it is. Peter gets the whole shirt. Hell yeah, Skeeter said. He didn't want one, but he's still getting it. Yeah, it's alright. It looks like everyone's going to win a shirt today anyways if there's only 5 people. Patrick says. Where's digital ass hat when you need them? A not the truth. Fuck that guy. Alright, cool Skeeter, you know how to get in. Touch me, man. Woman says it was rigged. Actually, I know, I know. Aside, she did say she was here. Look at that. So we're going to, here's what we're going to do. We're going to leave his name on the wheel and if he wins another one then he can shout out whoever else he wants in the chat and they can they can get out of the shirt.

15:55 And that'll work we. Can't take his name off. We can take his name off, but then the wheel gets smaller, nobody else wants to chat, and the thing we get down to one person on the wheel. Take his name off take. His name. Take his. Name right out of there, get get it out of there. If he wins again, I quit. All right, take his name off. You've been removed and there's been bang. On the wheel, never grabbed it. Take home. Ostracized from the wheel all. Right, So what you guys think about the first section of Stone Ape Theory? I don't like it. No. It's a good summary. It's a good demons. Deets demons. Demon. No, not demons. If if it happened before, then it can happen again. So either we're looking at a future event of Planet of the Apes, just like the movies, or it didn't happen at all. Animals know when to not eat stuff that's poisonous, right? They eat stuff that they can digest and all stuff. The reason why we have such a trip when it comes to eating magic mushrooms is because they're poisonous to us and the poison is acting on our bodies.

16:58 Animals don't do that. But how do you think they learn? I mean, I, I know it's like a generational thing where they're, you know, like deer aren't going to go eat these poisonous Berry berries, right? Because they know not to. It's in their genetics now to not eat this Berry. But at some point, you know, there were probably tons of deer that did eat that Berry and drop dead, you know? Yeah, well. Yeah, I think it's a different it, it's a different type of poison. And then if you think about like, first of all, we don't know what the potency was of those mushroom strains that were on those first fields in the recessed forest, right when we came out of the trees and started entering the the grasslands and we're finding these psilocybin mushrooms, we don't know what strains those work because they're like ancient dead strains for all we know.

17:46 So they might not have been super potent. And so these our ancestors could have just been essentially micro dosing, not enough to even really notice any of the negative effects because there are negative effects from eating too much psilocybin for sure. But if you eat like small amounts, there's almost no negative effects that I've ever encountered personally. So it's like, you know, I could, I could see them just eating like whatever it is, small dosages and then carrying out about the day with enhanced, you know, like acuity, like visual acuity, like sensory enhanced shit. So what about like nowadays?

18:26 I mean, if one group of apes got their hands on some mushrooms and then started going forward into the evolutionary chain with consciousness, then that means that another group of apes should have done it as well. Not necessarily because then you're going to think about receptors too, like why do we have the receptors in the in the brain to even like have the psychedelic experience? That's possible too, right? I I could you could make this argument with me and I might agree with you, but. Here I got something I'm going to share with you guys real quick. So I went to the Google and I said hey Google, what animals get high? This is this is what the Google said. Google brought me to this website zamnesia.com and it says elephants.

19:21 Alcohol is considered a poison, right? And yet they still get drunk and iboga, whatever that is. I'm sure it's fucking gnarly. Bees, bees get drunk. Wallabies. Wallabies eat opium. Hell yeah, dude. So horses, local weed, What's bears? I don't know. Bears obviously eat psychedelic mushrooms and jet fuel. Dude that's insane I never even thought about that bro. Like Cocaine Bear. Like they, they're out there just like on mushrooms when they eat, when they're attacking people. Like that's insane.

20:03 Let's see. Big Horn sheep, narcotic lichen, Reindeer, fly, agric, whatever that is. Cats, catnip or cat mint. Capuchin monkeys and lemurs. Hallucinogenic millipedes. Oh my. Gosh, Can you imagine the Jaguar in ayahuasca? I mean, come on. That's I think there's your answer, man. Animals, poison or not well. But then there's a thing though. So if they are eating these hallucinogenics, then they should also be growing consciousness. Maybe they are.

20:49 That's yeah, maybe. Maybe they are. Maybe they haven't had it as long as we have. Yeah, maybe they just maybe we were first. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a solid argument, right? Because. Why would we be first? We weren't. According to evolution, we weren't the 1st on the planet. No, but we may have been the first ones to eat shit. Nothing like a good old shit burrito, you know? Right, right. I mean, when it's good, it's good, especially. When it. Gets you fucking high. Maybe we weren't the 1st, I mean, maybe there were other like hominids that were doing it as well. We just throughout history of either like killed them off or they just didn't make it through for whatever reason, you know, but the our particular human species did.

21:31 I think it's a good argument. Why? Why didn't anybody else get the same benefit that we did from eating it? Maybe they didn't eat it as long as we did. I mean, from what what Terence McKenna was saying in his book, there's evidence that we ate a shit ton of it. Well, they're finding new humanoid species. I don't know what the, the right terms are for this, but like, you know, the Neanderthals, you got like Denisovans, like there's these other humans that weren't quite humans, right, that have since died off because of time, right? Let's just say that. And, you know, we don't know if they were as conscious as we were. I mean, we, we have to assume they were because some of the skulls and shit that they found were like not necessarily as big as ours, but it, I don't know if some of them are elongated and even bigger.

22:21 So maybe those, some of them were even smarter and more developed in that sense than we are now because they started before us. I'm just saying that we, for whatever reason, made it through time to now. They didn't. Whatever happened, Younger Dryas might have killed him. Maybe we killed him, maybe he's whatever the fuck killed him. I don't know. Maybe, you know, the fire and meteorites that took out Gomorrah and whatever were the cities that God destroyed in the Old Testament of Sodom and Gomorrah. So it's like maybe that was them being wiped out too. I don't know. Who knows? Sperm whale has the largest brain of any animal, weighing up to 20 lbs, which is much larger than the brains of other animals, including elephants, Bottlenose Dolphins and humans.

23:10 Weighs 2.9 to 3.3 lbs. So no. And whales aren't out there, unlike what Kenzar believes are now coming up on the out of the ocean shooting. People on because brain size is only part of the equation. The other part of the equation is how many neuron connections that the brain has. Human brains are very neuron dense. Have a if you go down to square inch, we have tenfold more than the next next most intelligent creature, which I believe is dolphins, right? Dolphins are octopus. Oh, yeah, yeah. Boofing some Starbucks. Who's that? We were just talking about boofing last night.

23:51 Yeah, that's funny. We were. Having current research, elephants are considered to have the most neurons in their brain, meaning they likely have the most neuron connections compared to other animals, with an African elephant brain containing a significantly more neurons than human brain. So no. Well, neurons, neurons is literally the path of information, right? It's the it's the, it's the hand off of the information. And just because this. Alex, they don't have. Thumbs, dude. It's not just brain sizes. Thumbs. Well, I mean, there's, there's been a lot of talk about how elephants are very intelligent, right? They have they have great memories, but they don't have the tools to be able to communicate right.

24:35 There's no combustion under the water, so they were never able to, like, get anywhere. Yeah, they they can't make fire underwater. Like, OK, who? Whales are elephants. You're going. To tell me whales can make fire underwater, this is the thing they don't have it's the. Brain, their own magnesium and water quenching. Yeah. It's the neuron. Density. Right now it's the. Neuron density and brain size. It's the fact they don't have thumbs and it's the fact that they're under fucking water and there's no combustion of any kind and all types of. But that's the problem with evolution. Evolution says that you develop these things things over time because you need them. So if whales and or elephants had way higher neurons levels than we did, then they should have been the ones with thumbs and we would still be chimpanzees.

25:17 Come on man. Come on, Come on bro. I think. There's a lot more to. Play in this theory and the author of this book is going to go crying home in shame. That's what's going. On the author's dead. But, well, he would cry home in shame. Go crying home in shame. Have you ever heard, Have you ever got a chance to listen to Terence McKenna talk? Man, the dude is brilliant. He doesn't. He's brilliant. If he's very hot, he's dumb things. Dude, Terence McKenna and his brother Dennis McKenna lived a wildlife back in the day man. And like the the things that he talks about is just like so deep and like philosophical and just crazy shit. Deep and philosophical maybe, but that doesn't mean it's true. Not necessarily, no, it's just theories, but it's, you know, it's there's some good arguments to be made. You know, I don't necessarily think that the stoned ape theory is like the end all be all.

26:09 Like we came out of the trees, we ate mushrooms and here we are. No, I think there's a lot of other things that could happen, including, you know, including like intervention from spiritual beings, right. But. We get into. That it's just a part of it, you know, I think that the, the mushrooms is just an aspect of that. Maybe let's just say the reason why our brains are sophisticated enough to be able to, I don't know what's the right word have an effect I guess from these drugs is because that's what heaven is like. You know, the Bible says no, I can see nor ears heard the things that are awaiting you in heaven. So if we can't in our wild imaginations assume what heaven is like, then maybe that's why we have things in our brains and going back to the spiritual thing. But we got things in our brains that when we have a complete body in heaven, we will be able to perceive these things. And that's why and people get a glimpse of that when they're on psilocybin or they're on DMT or they're doing something like that.

27:15 You know, the colors, the, the concepts, you know, all these different things. So maybe that's why we have these these brains set up the way they were because, you know, say Adam and Eve had these brains that were able to perceive God and see God and and experience God and all of what that means. You're right. But then they sinned. They got cast out of the Garden of Eden. I don't what it's to say God didn't stop, you know, change their brains, but they stopped being able to perceive that level of of incredible stuff because they were no longer surrounded by it.

27:56 And that's what is suppressed in our brains. It, it's not true when back in the day when science would be like, oh, you use only 10% of your brain. No, since we've got like, you know, we can actually scan the brain. We've seen that all right, certain parts line up with certain things and stuff like that. They, they all light up, right? The brain controls a number of different things. It's not all working at the same time. But the fact that we can take these drugs and have these effects and see these sorts of things and hear and smell and taste and touch and all that sort of stuff. Maybe that's because when we are full and complete in the afterlife, we will be experiencing that. I mean, I don't disagree with that at all, man.

28:38 I mean, I've like I've said many times on the show, like a lot of my most like profound and what I would only classify as some sort of spiritual experiences always happen with psychedelics. So I'm with that, right? And I've always said with them, when I'm with my friends doing this stuff, it's like, man, this must be, this is like reality with the filter being removed, right? Like you're seeing reality for what it is, which includes like the the realms of the spirit realms and things like that. Yeah. The veil gets lifted off, right? Exactly. Yeah, and This is why I, like a lot of tribes and cultures had like the idea of the spirit journey and you would take the psychedelics and you'd have the spirit journey and walk a month. So, you know, so I'm with that. I just don't see why the two can't coexist is all I'm saying, Right?

29:24 Like because I've heard arguments, right, of people who have said that there's things where a lot of the what's the word Abramic religions are really pointing towards mushroom worship because mushrooms were so important in like causing people to breed and like having these deep philosophical thoughts and thinking about the future and just like being creative and imaginative, right? And over history, they've kind of just like developed into these like bigger, you know, monotheistic ideas, I guess, right. So, but I'm I couldn't point you to who I've heard that from.

30:06 I just know that I've seen like some pretty interesting like documentaries and videos and talks on this kind of thing before and people bring it up sometimes. So to me I. Mean I've seen some interesting documentaries on climate change. That doesn't make that. Real. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that both things could be true, right. Like I'm just leaving it open for both is what I'm trying to because. Gosh, what is the name? Only because I've had those experiences bro. That's the only reason. Like because I've literally like been in the void in Infinity, surrounded by an internal energy that was comforting me into the into the infinite bro. I existed there for all time, right? It's the only way I could explain it as I was in what you would call heaven.

30:51 So. It has to be. Excuse me, what? I was trying to find out who this Jesus guy was, right? I was like a militant atheist. I hated the idea of God, but my life sucked. And so I was just like, all right, well, let's try to figure this whole thing out. Why is my life suck? And so I started getting looking into all the world religions and all that sort of stuff. And eventually I got to Christianity and there was one of the apologists that used to watch his name was Frank Turek. And he does a lot of like college campus Q&A's and things like that, right? And he, he has a couple books out and everything, but he said, you know, because someone said, you know, why can't evolution exist just because Jesus exists? And he's like, he's like, honestly, evolution in Jesus can go hand in hand.

31:39 Like even if evolution is real, that doesn't take anything away from Christ. You know, it just adds extra steps. And I was like, yeah, that's fair. Now I don't believe that, right? I don't believe that we evolved at least macro evolution versus micro evolution, right? Adaptation. But I mean, one thing that the Bible isn't, it's not a book on gosh, what what's the word? It always escapes in me. But it's not, it's basically it's not a book on animals. It's not a book on all of human history. It's not a book on, you know, what happened in between the seven days that God made everything. It's a book about people's journey to have a relationship with God and then finding out they are completely and utterly not able to do that because they can't for the life of them do the right thing. And then God having to step in and save the day. Like that's all it is.

32:37 And it's, you know, it, it, it's 44 books, it's 1500, you know, years over that and all that sort of stuff. But the Bible doesn't mention platypi, right? And they exist. It doesn't mention jellyfish and they exist. It doesn't mention all these other things. It doesn't mention, you know, dwarf tribes in Papua New Guinea or in Australia or whatever it is. But from what the fossil record shows, those existed, right? So there is a lot of stuff to be open about and to and for the most part I am open to that, except when it comes to the idea that we didn't weren't just made as we are, we were we were made as primates and then we evolved from there. I think that the fact that science can give you 30 examples of what AT Rex look like, at least it's bones, right through bits and pieces or full skeletons or whatever it was. But they'll pull out a skull that has almost nothing left of it and they'll rebuild the entire thing using plaster and be like, this is what our ancient ancestors look like, right?

33:58 And it's one example and that's it. It's it there. There isn't. You know, if it takes us a million years or billion years to transition from one thing to another, we should have so many freaking skeletons. It would be unmistakable or undeniable that we evolved from these future, these past primates or whatever. I. Agree. I actually agree with that. But we don't. We don't have thousands and thousands of skeletons of our ancestors. We have two. No, we have like 40 something different. I mean you could see the the clear changes. No, I see what he's saying.

34:41 I mean, there, there there are. One and another one as it goes back. It's not. It's not. In this generation we got 1000 fossilizations of our previous ancestors. In this generation we got another thousand. In this generation we got another thousand. It doesn't. Happen. I see what he's saying. There should be millions of. And the same thing is, they say that dinosaurs evolved into chickens, but that can't be because chickens, you know, lay an egg every day. It could be a fertilized egg every day. There'd be billions upon billions upon billions of fossilized examples of the transition and the change from scales to feathers from it's not. That's not one that's not true.

35:22 Thing. That's not true. There's not fossil. There's not billions and billions of fossils of modern humans even. From thousands of years. But no, what I'm what I'm saying is that in order for a fossil to exist, it has to have died in the correct circumstances. And there's. Also in the correct. In the. Correct. I think we have to remember like there is like huge Earth cataclysms, right? Even just in the last few 100 years, few thousand years, there's been like some severe shit that went down that that wiped things completely away, right. So it's like when you think about the younger Dryas, I don't have any guys ever looked at that beyond what I brought here.

36:03 But like, dude, that that event literally wiped whatever was on the northern hemisphere away gone. Even if there was pyramids that were 10 times the size of the ones in Giza, if there was, that type of structure would have been erased. Like nothing based off of what some of the research is saying, right? This is how cataclysmic some of these events are, right? This could be why you won't. You wouldn't find any remains. Of well, they should be somewhere. Sure. Well, they'd be powder. They'd be reincorporated into the earth, right? Like at that point it would just be you take. One of those deer bodies that you killed this year, go bury it out in your woods and then come back in five years, it's going to be completely gone. It's it wasn't buried in silt.

36:46 That silt didn't get dehydrated and turn into limestone. I'll tell you what, I'll do that. I actually have a whole bag of deer carcasses on the side yard and we'll do that when the show is here in the next 5 years. I will dig that thing up and be like, look, Jeremy, there's bones. Yeah, but thousands of years might be, Yeah. I understand your argument though, Jake. Like I'm with you on that. Honestly, I do believe that the timeline is skewed of history, right? I don't believe that necessarily. It took like 10 million years of us eating mushrooms to develop to the point of humans that we are, right? I think that that could have happened much quicker. And I do that. There was intervention and we were created in this form, whether it have been from God, literally or like some other demigod figures, right? One of the other I think created us for sure. I don't think that we were just like evolved from, you know, microbials billions of years ago as we're told. I think that's bullshit.

37:41 Like the human eye? Like your, Your eyeball literally can't exist and can't function without all the parts working together. Did you guys see what the proton looks like? So it it. Yeah. So there's there's no reason to to think that the eye developed over evolution, over time. It can't exist. It can't function the way it does without everything working together. You can't have, you can't be lacking your your pupil. You can't be lacking the veins. You can't be lacking the the the neurotransmitter. Literally the same thing with everything in your body. Right.

38:22 So you can't evolve those things. Why would you have it yet it has happened over doesn't do anything. But yet it has happened over millions of species in the history of this planet. Give an example. Every species on. This planet one example. A cat. What one example from a cat? It has eyes. It has better eyes. Than you. So why give an example of how that evolved to be that? Because they needed to be able to see at night. Why won't they be? Why? Why would a cat not be able to see at night What was it before the cat and give give accurate proof that this thing evolved into a cat. Whatever the thing was, was the marsupial? Was it some sort of like shrimp, you know, And then if suddenly evolves like what was it I.

39:09 Mean if you want to go all the way back, dude, you're talking about single cell Organism. Right. And then, right, given an example of it actually transitioning into that thing, if it took a billion years to get to the next thing and then there should be hundreds and hundreds of billions of examples of it while it was transitioning into that thing. So give an example. But you're also looking for a needle in a haystack. You shouldn't. Just because we don't have it doesn't mean it doesn't. Exist. You said that there has to be a specific set of circumstances in order to create a fossil which we can study. Then after billions of generations of a thing that breeds every 10 seconds, then there should be an one example of the thing transitioning from one thing to another thing, one species to another. If you can't give that, then evolution is false. If I can't give it.

39:59 If no one can give it, if scientists can't give it, evolution is false I. Have to kind of back Jake here a little bit because I do think he has a point that, you know, there's just too, there's too many things that are coincidences that that have to have taken place for us to have just evolved in this position. And I'll just use the eye as an example, right? If you've seen recently, they know what the photon looks like and it literally looks exactly like an eye. And it's just interesting to me that the photon, the particle of light, the thing that our eye takes in for our brains to decode and think, looks like the thing that is observing it. It's, it's like the whole quantum thing, right? Like it is the thing that we're observing, like. How this horse looks like an atom? Right.

40:48 This has to be like a creation of some kind, right? Like, well, and so my only debate is like, is, is this creation within another creation, right? Or is this the creation? So like that's the thing I think that people could debate because if you're religious, of course you're going to think that this is the creation made by the creator. If you're not and you and you think of like multiverses and you're more into like the science realm, you're going to think that this could potentially be a creation within creation and like in layers beyond, right? So. Like a millionaire and parfaits. Parfaits have layers. See the band You OK? First of all, I'm not against creationism. I'm just not in the same boat as thinking that there is one entity that created everything, right? There could be a creator that's not a physical entity or a spiritual entity, right?

41:43 It could be something that we absolutely just don't understand. But even if there is a creator to think that that people or whatever something that's living doesn't adapt to the way that they they live. And that's why we. Their environment, I mean, just look at the difference, the skin tones of people, people that live. And that's why we we differentiate micro versus macro evolution. Adaptation is something completely different than it's not hardcore evolution where one species transitions to another. Black people and Asian people and Hispanic people are not biologically different than white people, right?

42:25 They have different melanistic characteristics, but they're not biologically different. If I have AB negative they. Are absolutely biologically different. That's how that's how you can look at someone's blood and tell tell where they're from is because they have their biological bookmarks in their biologics. I guess you can. I 2021 and me will tell you that they can. I can't take my AB. ancestry.com give you that. They can and they survive. It would die if I did a blood transfusion. You're talking about two different species. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. They're not biologically different. I can't take, I can take my AB negative blood and give it to a black person or Mexican or a Asian person or someone from Hawaii that has AB negative blood and they will survive, right? I cannot give it to my dog.

43:14 He will die, right? They're not biologically separate. The only thing that separates us is our facial features and our body features. Our DNA is the same and our melanistic traits. That's it. So you can't. I I think but. I think you're 1 species to another. Just as semantic misunderstanding, but yeah. I think, I think that I mean, Jake, I love you man, but I, I, I think you're, you're lacking knowledge on taxonomical. Information. What I'm saying, I think it's just. Using the wrong using the wrong terminology is the problem. That's what's bothering. He's triggering you because you're using. He's saying that they're not. He's using the word biologically instead of. Speciously sure. Speech.

43:56 Yeah, I guess. I don't even know the correct term either, but that's the word that's triggering you. I think you guys are just talking in circles around each other on this one, because he's not wrong, he's just using the wrong terms. It's semantic misunderstanding. The fact is, is that like rats or rabbits, you know, small, small rodents can reproduce like 100 generations in a year like crazy, right? So if you were to tell me some prehistoric rat end up turning into another animal, say like the giant sloth, if they can produce 100 generations in a year and it takes a million years to go from one species to another species, we're looking at a trillion generations.

44:43 And in those trillion generations, not one of them died in a specific way where all the fossils are on the same line. Like wherever you go in the world, they're all found in the same band of earth. But you can't find me one example of a mouse or a rat going from one species to another species and the steps it took in between to do that. Because whatever one that was, that one out right, the genetic lottery of just like now I have better hearing, or I have better eyesight, or now I have sharper teeth or whatever it was then that would carry on because they're genetically better than the last version.

45:24 So they should be the ones out breeding the rest of the rats, getting into the next species that they turn into a a mole or getting into, you know, the giant sloth or whatever it was. You will see the growth progression. You'll see all these different things. If this, if the settings have to be just right after billions and trillions and millions of babies, there should be one that dies in the perfect circumstances to make a fossil. And science doesn't have it. They don't have it for anything. They don't have it for humans. They don't have it for for chickens turning into dinosaurs. They don't, you know, or dinosaurs turning into chickens and anything like that.

46:04 They have one example of a feathered dinosaur and it was a fake and that's it. So there should be something in between. And you can't tell me that. No, it's, it's because, well, they have 40, OK, great. 40 over time from this thing to this thing. And they have 40 examples over time. How many people would be produced if you didn't have birth control? All of them. Anytime we had sex there would be an offspring reproduce unless there was sterilization or something like that. So there would be hundreds of examples in each category. Here's Homo erectus, there's hundreds of examples.

46:44 Here's the Homo sapiens, hundreds of examples. Here's the pygmies in Australia, hundreds and hundreds of examples, right? They're all the time. If you could get one fossil out of that area, then there would be hundreds of fossils out of that area. It just doesn't make sense that there isn't that. Link. I think you're thinking now, fossils are just so common and that it's easy just to be like, oh, you know, I'm going to go look for this missing link right now and go out and find it. The thing is, is that it could take thousands of years to find one of the links. And it's just it, but it's a needle in a haystack. But we may not. We may not even have access to that depth. Jeremy It hasn't, though. It took the Smithsonian 40 years to find all the examples of humans turning from apes to to humans.

47:28 Yeah, because it takes. Time. How? Shit dude. I don't believe anything comes out of Smithsonian dude. Basically, Smithsonian says it 30. Years for them to decide. These are all the, the genetic, these are all the the evolutionary steps in between apes to humans. And they found all of the fossils that they needed. It didn't take thousands of years, Jeremy. It took 40 years or 50 or 60 years. And that's it. They hoped. But yeah, man. There's just no evidence, no concrete evidence. But even even that, that list that you're talking about is incomplete. A lot of those are just filled in with with conceptions. Yeah, it's not.

48:09 But they what I'm saying is like as if it's a fact. This is where we came from, not this is where we think we came from. All right, man, SO1, All right, I this, this is probably one of the hardest debates that I've had because I just don't know how to approach this with you. Go for it, just blast me. No, man, because I. It's because my theories are are stronger personally. Man, I think that you're just not willing to like, you know, take anything in right now, like at all. Well, which is which is what? Something in if it made sense. I do die, all right. If it made sense, if it wasn't from a bias and it made sense, I would take it in.

48:51 So when are you going to remove your bias? I, I I can. Can you? Yeah. OK, but what you're saying to me and the what you're saying to me from your brain as far as what makes sense to you and the information we have as far as what the scientists say doesn't align. You can say all day long that Dragons farted magical Pixie dust out of their asses. And science says Dragons didn't exist. I'm not going to just suddenly believe you just because you say it, right? So I'm like, based off what science says, right? So science has, you know, the archaeology, the paleontology has so much information to show us where we came from.

49:35 And their information to me is proven faulty and wrong. And it just, it doesn't line up because of the amount of breeding that takes place over a million years. If there's one fossil in a spot where it's the perfect conditions, as you said, then there should have been a tribe of people in that perfect condition. Human beings or people transitioning into humans or evolving to humans don't just aren't just singularly out there in the middle of nowhere like a lion. They don't do that. We're we're tribal. So one person falls down into quicksand, dies, the entire tribe then has to jump in there with him.

50:16 Why is there only one spot of quicksand in the entire? Earth it's, but it's. Not man, that's thing. There's only one spot of quicksand in the entire earth. There's only one where the. Fuck, did you get that from? Where did you get that from? Where? When I when I said that you keep taking these jumps into some of the most ridiculous bullshit, dude, and it's like, what the fuck are you talking about? What the fuck? You there has to be super specific instances in which bones get fossilized. Yes. OK, so there's one spot of quicken the entire Earth where? How the fuck did you come up with there's one spot of quicksand? Over a million years or a billion years, only one thing that shit. Into my mouth, bro. That I did not say that.

50:58 I'm asking you a question. I'm not telling you this, I'm asking. But the answer is no. There is way more than one spot of quicksand. OK, So I shouldn't have to say could have more people fall fall into it. Yeah, but maybe I only have one examples. We do. No, we don't. We have, We have plenty of examples of dead people from thousands of years ago. Thousands we have. Them Thousands. Millions. Of years though, because we don't have access to the depths of where the other ones are. They're all in the same fossil layer. Anyone who works in the oil industry will tell you that the fossil layer stops at a certain point, and that's so. And below that you're saying the oil you're. Saying the reserves of oil, right, That's, that's, that is where the fossil record is. No, it's above that, about 12,000 feet above that. OK, so how big is the fossil record? Fossil record goes all the way up to. Us in some cases, but it stops at some point, which it shouldn't.

51:52 If the Earth is billions of years old, it shouldn't. There should be a much deeper fossil record. So who's who's to say that there isn't a fossil record underneath oil, underneath petroleum, to say that there isn't another fossil record down there? I guess it'd be how far people dig. I mean, well, they. Claim that that is the fossil record. Essentially, they say that the fuel is petroleum. Is dead animals and dead dead? It's a. It's an element in. Bullshit too though. That's bullshit too though, I'm not going to lie. I mean. I get that. Yeah. Like, I mean, I've gone against science 1000 times on the show and said it's bullshit, right? But there's there's sometimes when it's like, man, you know, you just, you got to, you got to look at things and be like, OK, some things just have to make sense.

52:35 And I I'm, I'm sorry, but for the most part, evolution on a grand scale makes sense to me. Why? Why? Because it makes sense. Why? What's the evidence to make it make sense? He trusts the experts. No, I, I don't know so. What? What for you makes it make sense? Why does it make sense? So you're saying that we just plopped here in our in our form that we are in right now? So the fact that we share genetic similarities, chimpanzees. Similarities to a banana, Jeremy? Yeah, it doesn't matter. But then you then you're talking about percentages.

53:16 When you're talking about genetic similarities, all you're saying is an arm goes here, a face goes there, a nose goes there, it doesn't matter. Shit, the timeline is just wrong and the, the, the, the earth is not as old as we're told right. So all of archaeology and, and shit is just a fabrication. It's a big money laundering scheme. I mean I I. Definitely think it happens faster than they they put it out. I definitely think it happens faster than than than than. What's it? That's for sure. So, and is it also possible that something or some, yeah, something intervened in our quote UN quote evolution to create us? Is that possible? To create us I, I, I think to. Or to manipulate something else.

54:01 I do not think that. Intervention. Yes, there definitely could have been. I do not think that we were made from a blank canvas, if that. What do you say? What do you say about just that, Jake? What's that? Do you think? I mean, I know your answer, but do you think that we were created from a blank canvas here or do you think that we were created from something else here? No from a blank canvas. You don't think it's possible that when God created Adam and Eve, he may have used the canvas of a previous primate and just created Adam and Eve from that? What do you mean by canvas? Well, like in the sense. Well, here's here's the reason I asked, because there's the evidence that our DNA has been fused, right? The chromosome fused in our DNA.

54:49 So what is that like something did that right? Now, I would say that ancient peoples would have said that the same thing that did that. They called it God, right? So I would say God or whatever it was is the same thing that fused and created us literally. And they may have used something else with similar DNA from the time and fused those two. Whatever. Yes. I talked to Jeremy when we were talking about whales like a year or two ago, and we were talking about this exact same thing. Why do whales have bones in their flippers that look like hands but with elongated bones? And I was like, when you build a new car, if you were to design a new car, would you start with a different type of wheel? And he was like, no.

55:34 And I was like, exactly. You start with the same wheelbase. You start with the same engine base, maybe, unless you want to throw some flair in there, right? And in the same chassis design, but you design the outside of the car different so that it matches your models of your, you know, maker, whatever Toyota, Ford, whatever it is, right? But it's same wheels. You're not making a new type of wheel. But could could God have utilized the same things he already had on the planet from the day before? Maybe that was a million years, who knows? Or a billion years, right? The day before, whatever God considers a day, right? To create human beings in that sort of image, Sure, why not? But did he utilize say like chimpanzees were already there cuz they get all the animals he had all the, the sea life, you know, all that sort of stuff and been like, all right, now you guys are going to be humans, no.

56:32 OK, I'll take that answer. I'll accept that I don't know about you, Jeremy, because out of there is this whole missing link thing like there is, we still don't have a clear path from our evolution, right? And that that's Jake's point before, right? There is no clear path that's been written down peer reviewed. And all they say is that this animal turned into this animal, turned into this animal, turned into this animal, turned into chickens, this this being, turn into this being, turn into this being, turn to this being, turn into this being. And there's humans, that's true. Billion years in between, that's true. But there is a period there. Is a genetic map that you can make. From a bunch of liars. I mean, yeah, they they lie about a lot of things.

57:13 I get that. I understand. But I mean, do you take vitamins every day? No, 'cause I can't afford them. They're too expensive. Just for men. It's crazy expensive. It's like 40 bucks the wires. Forget it. I'm I'm sure you use shampoo and body wash right? Because the the the professionals will tell you that it cleans your hair and your body. You trust them on that? I don't show every day you're. Fine, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, pick and choose your battles. No, I mean I I agree man. There's there's a line where you where you have to draw right. I've gone a record tons of times saying that there's there's just shit that just doesn't make sense. You know, and science is bullshit, but I'm sorry man, the the whole thing about genetics and evolution, I just it, it makes too much sense to me. And I'm, I just want to show this. Wait, that's not it.

58:02 Hold on. So let me get this straight. You want you would I'm going to make an assumption here. You tell me if I. Please assume yes. You want Jesus to come into your living room to tell you that he exists for you to believe in him, but you're willing for a bunch of scientists tell you a bunch of mumbo jumbo with no explanation and no evidence whatsoever, and you're totally on board with the believing in them. Nope, not at all. I would totally believe in Jesus and and the concept of Christianity and everything that it stands for under far less evidence than Jesus walking into my living room. What evidence?

58:48 I mean, I don't know what that evidence looks like, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of things in my life where I refuse to believe until I am given. A flawed. I mean, yeah, we're, we're absolutely flawed. Of course we are. But that's why, right? It's 'cause people suck. Yeah, yeah. But yet, I mean, you, you believe that you need meat in your diet, right? You don't believe in a vegetarian diet because there are a lot of. People that I know that because of science. Well, because of science. But science has been able to explain why I need me and my diet, why I need vitamin B12 to keep my brain from shrinking. Science has not been able to represent a missing link between species.

59:35 Ever. Not one. So you have single working time. You've. Seen the physical evidence of why you need these vitamins and protein? Yes, but. There's things called YouTube, OK, where they actually have demonstrations of stuff like when they pull blood samples from people that don't eat meat and pull blood samples from people that do eat meat, and what your brain looks like when you don't eat meat over large amounts of time. The problem is is that that is something that can be seen now. Over days, right? It's not something that can be seen over millions and billions of years, but even that they don't have an example of it, but they want you to believe it and they feed it to you and you just snatch it up.

1:00:20 You're like, MMM, gravy. You know, it's just it, it, it they're, they're just there. If there was a scientist that came out and said, hey, man, I found the missing link, I'd be like, all right, bet. But no one has done it, and they're. Never. They're never going to. They're never. Going to because it doesn't exist. OK, because animals die out. You know, man, I don't have enough capacity in my night for this, so we're going to need to just move on. All right. What do you got there, Jeff? Doesn't matter if we're going to move on. That was just the NIH's website basically breaking down the fusion in our DNA that happened after the quote UN quote split from the chimpanzee, which has not been proven. To Jake's point.

1:01:02 I will back him up on that. That is not a fact. That is still there. Never going to be proven. Of course, and that's fair. I can take that argument too. But the fact is fact, right? So, but what is also a fact is that our DNA has been fused to create us, right? And that is the thing that is, is like, what the fuck is that? So if I the only thing I'm trying to do here is bridge to a common ground here, right? I think we can all agree that something created us. Something higher than us created us back in in history. Now you could think of that scientifically or spiritually or however you want, but the facts remain the same. Our DNA was fused. I agree. Somewhere, some way, you know, we are not. How you perceive it from your God or your science or whatever, it doesn't matter, right?

1:01:50 We that we could debate for eternity, and that's what Peter. Said it's time to draw again. We're not even on the second fucking I know thing yet, so we're on page two of nine. Holy shit, we'll even have to turn 20 minutes. Yeah, I didn't want to make this A2 parter, but I guess it's going to have to be all right. Humans. It's undeniable that humans share much in common with great apes that also call Earth home. We resemble them in physical appearance, movement, and even aspects of our thought process. However, the most striking difference between US and them lies in brain power and cognitive abilities. Given these similarities, it's safe to assume that humans and modern apes share a common ancestor, likely a member of the ape family. Fossil records provide a fairly clear picture of our evolutionary journey in terms of physical changes. Yet what truly sets Homo sapiens apart from any other species is not just our physical evolution, but our consciousness, an enigmatic aspect of humanity that is far harder to trace and understand.

1:02:53 Physical evolution is well documented in the fossil record, but the evolution of the human mind seems to have occurred at a much faster and more complex pace. One prevailing theory is that culture played a pivotal role in shaping the modern human mind. As early human cultures developed structure, the the brain evolved to meet the demands of these emerging societies. Primitive language likely emerged as a tool for communication, eventually eventually giving rise to storytelling, song, written word, art, and technology. Each cultural advancement spurred further cognitive growth, creating a compounding effect that drove the rapid expansion of human intelligence and self-awareness.

1:03:36 This compounding effect is evident in modern technology. In just a century, humanity advanced from the Ford Model T to flying drones on Mars, splicing genes, developing self driving cars, and wirelessly communicating across the globe. In comparison, the previous century saw far slower progress from horse drawn buggies to the automobile. While this pattern seems to suggest that human minds grow exponentially, some argue that the real catalyst is our ability to record knowledge and build upon the achievements of others, giving the illusion of accelerated cognitive evolution. But what if the key to this rapid evolution wasn't just cultural or technological progress?

1:04:21 Terence McKenna offered a compelling alternative. In Food of the Gods, McKenna theorized that certain alkaloids and plants, particularly hallucinogenic compounds like psilocybin, dimethylotryptamine or DMT and harmaline, may have acted as chemical catalyst for the emergence of human self reflection. Mckenna's hypothesis becomes particularly intriguing when examining fossil records. Over a span of just 10,000 years, early human brain size doubled, a phenomenon unparalleled in the animal Kingdom. This unprecedented growth remains one of the greatest mysteries of human evolution.

1:05:02 This rapid development coincides with a crucial moment in our evolutionary history when our ancestors descended from the trees, began foraging on the ground, stood upright, and laid the foundation for modern human societies. During this time, our ancestors also encountered something else on the ground feces. While it's a myth that all psilocybin mushrooms grow exclusively on the feces of grass fed cattle, it's true that animal dung, particularly from herbivores or omnivores, creates an ideal environment for these mushrooms to thrive. Herbivores that graze on grasses containing molds like ergot, which also possesses hallucinogenic properties, likely contributed to the proliferation of psilocybin laced fungi in these environments. Could these mushrooms have played a role in accelerating the evolution of the human mind?

1:05:55 McKenna believes so, suggesting that the psychedelic experiences they induced may have triggered profound changes in perception, self-awareness and creativity, setting humanity on a unique evolutionary trajectory. I wish there was a way to have so I saw some some news thing maybe a couple months ago where they were talking about like we might be on the verge of being able to like record dreams and actually play them on a screen so you could see them in real time. If there was a way to take animals that at 8:00, psilocybin or whatever to see what sort of trips they have, I'm sure it'd be crazy. Like it wouldn't just be like, yeah, you know, I'm foraging in the woods and stuff like that.

1:06:39 I'd be like, I'm foraging and there's Dragons and all this sort of stuff. Maybe I don't know how much social influence and and I don't know pop culture or whatever it is adds to your trip as far as what you see while you're tripping. It depends on set and setting, to be honest with you, but it would be interesting enough just to be able to see what like a cat sees normally without them being on psilocybin, right? Because different animals are seeing in different light spectrums too, right? So ultraviolet, I always think about that. Like with my cats, I'm like, are my cats able to see the Wi-Fi waves? Are they? Because, you know, you ever see your cat or whatever that they're staring at the fucking wall? You're like, what are you staring at, dude? It's like, well, maybe they're just staring at like the cell phone waves bouncing off the wall or something.

1:07:24 Wouldn't that be a trip, right? What do you think, Jeremy? Yeah, that'd be cool. What? I'm going to debate you. Huh. I never seen. All of my stuff out in the first half, we're good. No, I'm not worried about a debate with you. He's never seen that movie, the one we were just talking about. Jeremy what? Were you talking about? We weren't even talking about, we weren't listening, we weren't even paying attention. Oh, got him. Let's let's do this next bit and we'll do another giveaway all. Right. So good. Yep, science and thought. Throughout history, numerous trials have been conducted to study the effects of psychedelics on the human mind and body. One notable experiment mentioned in Terence Mckenna's Food of the Gods was conducted by Roland Fisher in the late 1960s. Fisher administered small doses of psilocybin to a group of graduate students and observed their reactions to a visual test involving parallel lines that eventually skewed slightly. When compared to a control group, the psilocybin dose students were able to detect detect the deviation far more quickly.

1:08:36 McKenna quotes Fisher's conclusion quote. What is conclusively proven here is that under certain circumstances, 1 is actually better informed concerning the real world if one has taken a drug than if one has not. This insight could explain why our ancient ape ancestors might have begun consuming psilocybin contained fungi regularly. If a small dose could sharpen perception and enhance awareness in modern humans, it's reasonable to imagine similar benefits for early hominids. For example, consuming psilocybin could have aided hunters and gatherers by by heightening their ability to detect subtle changes in their environment, weather, spotting potential prey, avoiding predators, or identifying edible plants that might otherwise go unnoticed. McKenna referred to this effect as quote UN quote chemical binoculars, a well documented phenomenon of enhanced visual acuity induced by psychedelics.

1:09:40 The advantages of psilocybin use likely use likely extended beyond survival tasks. Groups of early humans who adopted this practice may have been more successful hunters and providers, gaining an evolutionary edge. These individuals would have been more attractive mates, passing down both their genes and our knowledge to subsequent generations. Overtime, those who did not consume these mushrooms may have been out competed, leaving the mushroom ingesting lineage to thrive. Also proposed that psilocybin's effects varied by dosage, each contributing uniquely to the human development.

1:10:20 Low doses, As mentioned, small amounts of psilocybin enhanced awareness and perception, aiding in hunting, gathering, and tool usage. This increased efficiency would have directly benefited survival. Moderate doses. Medium doses of psilocybin are known to induce physical arousal, potentially increasing sex drive. This could have led to higher rates of reproduction, presenting new challenges for early human groups. The need to feed and care for larger numbers of offspring may have driven innovation, social organization, and problem solving, leading to compounding levels of intelligence. High Doses or large amounts of psilocybin can trigger intense hallucinations creating vivid real feeling visions. These experiences could have laid the foundation of early belief systems, myths, religious ideologies, and countering quote UN quote otherworldly entities.

1:11:19 Or extreme scenarios in these hallucinary, hallucinatory states might have sparked a sense of spirituality or awe, shaping the beginnings of human storytelling, ritual, and community bonding. Across all three levels of psilocybin use, the influence on early human development would have been profound. Enhanced sensory perception, heightened reproduction, and the emergence of belief systems could have driven genetic diversity, cultural growth, and stronger social cohesion. In essence, Mckenna's hypothesis paints a picture of our quote UN quote mushroom munching ancestors as highly perspective, sexually prolific, and innovative early humans. These traits may have given them the edge needed to outcompete others, ultimately laying the groundwork for modern humanity. Their use of psilocybin may have catalyzed the evolution of intelligence, community and belief systems, shaping the path that led to who we are today.

1:12:23 So I want to just kind of speak to those effects a little bit because when you do like micro dosing, you definitely have like a like a what I would call like a superhuman enhancement to your perception, right? Your visual acuity, you're able to see colors a lot clearer. You're able to just like the most minute movements you catch them like you're a fucking predator. You know what I mean? Like I've I've with this this more times than I could tell you where literally the smallest little thing catches your attention when you're on these micro doses, right. And then on those medium doses, yeah, you definitely, you're trying to get some for sure, right?

1:13:04 Like, because, because what happens is like your entire body starts to feel enhanced, right? It goes from just your visual and like like the on the lower doses, it's like visual and hearing acuity is like just enhanced, right? Your taste is enhanced. I used to always try to go for a Sour Patch Kids. That was like the the move Sour Patch Kids and Slurpees from 7:11. You. Re up with those beforehand and then boom right your low dose trip is amazing and then yeah next level is your touch. Your sense of touch is like super enhanced. So of course you're going to be more aroused, right? Like everything's just going to feel much better. And then, yeah, when you get to that next level, it's like that heroic dose, man. You definitely have those like spiritual or like super profound experiences. You know, and again, I've said that before, I can only imagine if, you know, if you were living 10,000 years ago in a small tribe somewhere and you had like a heroic dose of something, whatever, and you came in contact with what you could only perceive as some entities of some kind. Like you're going to give it a name, you're going to start either worshipping it or fearing it, and that's going to be a thing.

1:14:11 Did you ever trip on psilocybin and then go do your job? Yeah. And do it well. Yeah. Yeah, why'd you? Doses Why'd I stop What the job or the psilocybin? Why'd you stop the psilocybin? Because for me personally, I get the most out of it when I do like heroic doses. So for me, it's like a periodical type thing where I like to do it every so often, kind of like a pilgrimage, right? It's cleansing of the soul is the way I look at it. You know, I have these every year or two, a nice trip. And it makes me like reflect on myself super deep and like the things I'm doing in life. And usually I do change like some pretty serious aspects of my life when that happens. So you have to take a high dose.

1:14:56 Can you work on a high dose? Depends on what your work is right now. No, because I go to people's houses and no, fuck no. Could you hunt on a on a high dose? On a high, yeah, perhaps if you were already a if you were a hunter gatherer, if you're not just a professional hunter, but if that's what you did day in and day out just to survive like you haunted to to eat and you went out there on like a medium to a high dose. Yeah, I think you could probably, you probably do a hell of a good job because here's another thing that happens. Yeah. Well. Here's something that don't happen. Yes. Listen, no, no, that doesn't happen. First of all, I want to clear that the air on that when you take psilocybin mushrooms, you don't necessarily see things that don't exist unless you're on such a high dose that you're almost out, right?

1:15:40 Like, you know, you're laying there dreaming, daydreaming, if you will. OK, if you're on that dose, yeah, you're not hunting. But if you're on anything less than that, not only is your vision on point, your hearings on point, but you also have like, the amphetamine effect, right? Where you, you have energy to do things. So I'll give you an example, right? Like on 419, which is a holiday for a lot of people who like to take LSD because with Albert Hoffman, is that the guy's name who invented LSD, apparently invents this shit on accident. And he rides his bike home after he doses himself in the laboratory, right. So he's tripping on LSD, an unknown dose. Yeah, an unknown dose. Nobody even knows, right? Could have been a lot and he rides his bike home.

1:16:21 So on 4/19, a lot of people like to ride their bikes on on LSD. So I've done this and every time that you do this, you keep going because when you get off the bike, let's say you ride for 30 minutes to an hour, right? And you're like, man, my legs are sore, my ass hurts. You get off the bike and you stop and you're like, this doesn't feel right, right. Like the motion that I was doing for the last 30 minutes to an hour, like I kind of need to keep doing that right? It's called the loop. You get like this amphetamine type energy where like you, you will keep going for the duration of your trip. You're not going to sleep for the 8/10/12 hours that you're on any of these things. You will keep going. So yeah, if you're out there hunting, you're super aware, super alert, and your your energy levels are spiked the whole time.

1:17:05 So yeah, you're going to get something. Question I had, it was like, you know, if I were to high dose and just sit in my chair and just play music, you know, play some tool or whatever it was and you know, look at look at something crazy on the wall or whatever. Be a totally different experience from somebody who was high dosing and then also having to do with super predators that would drag you out of your Hut and eat while you're still alive type stuff. And so I was curious, you know, because I've never done that. I don't plan to because God knows I don't need another problem. You know, I don't, I don't need another, another thing, right? But like, what is the, I don't know, the level of awareness, the I don't know, I think I seem to mix these drugs up sometimes. Like what causes monster hallucinations where if you're having a bad day and suddenly the spiders are coming for you versus just like everything is the same except this way up here, right?

1:18:14 It's like you said, heightened hearing, heightened senses, heightened sight, whatever it was target acquisition, you know, things like that. I've seen stuff that doesn't that wasn't there in the room with me. But usually that's again, like, you know, I close my eyes, right? Like you, you get into these modes even on like medium doses of psilocybin, right? If you go in a dark room and you know, maybe you just have music on or not, you're just silent in a dark room. You just lay there with your eyes closed. You're going to have, you're going to fall into like a sleep state, like a dream state. You're going to like see shit that's not there because you're dreaming, right? Like you're going to see whatever Dragons and fucking unicorns or whatever your imagination can conjure up in this, in the state eyes open as well, but you're not seeing it literally like in the room with you, if that makes sense.

1:19:00 It's just it's no different than you daydreaming, except you can really fall into that trance of that Daydream and kind of really almost, let's say astral project your way into that that realm when you're tripping, right? But it's not there in the room with you so much as you're in that realm with it, if that makes sense. Right Now what you do see a lot is, for instance, music. If you have like a good subwoofer in your house and you got some music going, you know, I've seen colors vibrating across the white walls, right? Like like wave patterns of different colors based off the notes. And as the notes go lower, right, you would see a more like red shift to the wave pattern. And as the notes were higher and with the melodies, the bass like the whole thing, I've seen that ripple across the walls, which is actually happening. So it's not like you're seeing something that's not there. Again, this is just the veil being lifted, the filter being removed, and you're seeing.

1:19:52 Reality the the more enhanced version of us, essentially. Right. And then, you know, when you have the enhanced acuity with your vision and these types of things, this is going back to what Jeremy was talking about in the presentation, right? You're going to hyper focus and fixate on little things as well. When when you get stuck in the loop, right? When you have that endless thing. So let's say you're sitting there weaving a basket, right, for your tribe, right? And you, you're on these psilocybin mushrooms like you're going to weave. The best fucking basket dude. And not only that, you're probably going to weave like 10 of them, right one for everybody and then you know what I mean like and then you're going to start with and then tomorrow you're going to weave fucking rugs for everybody's hot man.

1:20:35 And like this. I think this is part of how like the the women of these tribes were able to like get so much shit done while the men were out also getting so much shit done at the same time as because they were just consuming these mushrooms like as part of their diet, right. I don't think for most of them it was like super known or like special. It was just like we eat these and also we're good at shit. We get shit done around here, right? I don't think that they really connected the two. I think the shamans of the societies knew the secret and they when they mixed their brews and shit, like they knew exactly what they were doing and that's how they were able to kind of like, you know, do their thing.

1:21:16 But. Well, they were the ones that were all the time. The regular schmucks were just put mushrooms in the salads bro. And like they were just, you know. So how would that they then go from trips to consciousness, the awareness of I'm me and I'm here? Because of the self reflection part right now I don't know how this would happen to like a pre human human, but for a human what happens is you do really reflect on yourself a lot. There's a lot of like self, you know, This is why they say don't look at yourself in the mirror when you're tripping, bro, Because like, you'll get sucked in, right? You start to analyze yourself like super deep because you can actually see yourself now, not just think about yourself, right?

1:21:56 And This is why people who go down to Mexico and take like ibogaine, like they quit these addictions, even if they weren't there to quit the addictions to begin with, right? Like they still come back and they're like, I don't even want to drink alcohol. Like Shawn Ryan, like 2 years sober and all that stuff, yeah. Right and he didn't even go down there for that right? He he didn't even think he had a problem, Right. But something happens when you're in that realm where you just really think about everything. You think about the shit you said to that kid in 3rd grade. And then you think about like, how you're, you know, you're fucking up your life because you're drinking every day or smoking pot every day or whatever The thing is. And you just start to change. Whatever happens. I don't know. It's just you wake up from a dream and you're like, oh, shit, I need to change that. Yeah.

1:22:39 I think that could lead into, like, consciousness, if you will. Right. Yeah. Are we doing a thing? Yeah. Let me the wheel. Do the thing. Forgot that I have to do this. Share this wheel of names wheel of names shit. Who's getting a free shirt? My. Gosh, you got to be fucking kidding me. Oh. Wollens, so far I don't have to pay for shipping. All right, you guys ready to move on? Congrats, Wollens. All right, hallucinogens. In Food of the Gods, Terence McKenna proposes that the true missing link in human evolution may not be a physical skeleton of an intermediate species, but rather a compound with hallucinogenic properties.

1:23:23 He suggests that specific psychoactive substances, particularly the Endoli hallucinogens, played a pivotal role in shaping human self reflection and consciousness, Kenna writes. Quite a particular family of active compounds, the Endoli hallucinogens, placed a decisive role in the emergence of our essential humanness. McKenna outlines four families of hallucinogens that could have driven these transformative advancements. LSD type compounds Though rare in nature, LSD type compounds, mostly most notably lysageric acid diethylamide, have demonstrated profound effects on cognition beyond recreational and experimental use. These compounds can enhance thought speed, improve the ability to process complex behaviors, and facilitate understanding of intricate decision making networks. LSD also holds therapeutic value, particularly in psychotherapy and treatment of alcoholism. However, due to the scarcity of natural sources containing LSD type compounds, McKenna ultimately rules them out as contributing to early human evolution. 2 Tryptamine hallucinogens This group includes silicon, psilocybin, and DMT.

1:24:51 Silicon and psilocybin are primarily found in fungi, while DMT is naturally produced in the human brain and believed to be released during death. DMT is renowned for inducing profound and visually spectacular hallucinis hallucinations often described as intense spiritual experiences. Of these, psilocybin and silicin are of particular interest as they occur naturally in mushrooms, making them readily available to early humans in the African grasslands. 3 Beta carbolines Harmine and harmoline, two key beta carbolines, are the primary psychoactive compounds in the South American ceremonial drink ayahuasca. This brew is traditionally used for spiritual healing, divination, and extended visionary experiences. Beta carbolines also act as Mao inhibitors, enhancing the effects of DMT and enabling a longer, deeper experience. However, these compounds are native to South America, and we're not available in the African grasslands during the period of early human evolution, making them an unlikely candidate.

1:26:10 I have a game derived from the Tabernathy or Taber Avernon Montana tree in Africa and South America. Ibogaine is both a potent aphrodisiac and a hallucinogen in higher doses. While it's African origins might suggest its relevance, McKenna eliminates it as a potential catalyst for human evolution due to its association with trees rather than the grasslands where early proto humans lived. Additionally, there is no evidence that it was widely used before the 19 century. In chapter 3 of Food of the Gods, McKenna attempts to identify the specific hallucinogen responsible for humanity's cognitive leap.

1:26:57 By a progress process of elimination. He sets forth the following criteria. One, the compound must originate in Africa. 2 It must be native to the grasslands where early humans were located. 3 It must require no preparation and be consumed in its raw form. 4 It must have been readily available. 5 The benefits must be immediate and tangible, making them recognizable even to a primitive ape. Using these parameters, McKenna systematically ruled out each family of hallucinogens until only one remains. Iwogaine disqualified for its tree based origins, making it unlikely to have been accessible to proto humans living in grasslands.

1:27:46 Additionally, its use was not documented until much later. LSD type compounds excluded due to the absence of any plants in Africa known to contain LSD like substances and beta carbulenes ruled out because they are exclusive to South America, far removed from early human habitat habitats in Africa. This leaves the tryptamine hallucinogen, specifically psilocybin and silicon as the most plausible candidates and kind of focuses on psilocybin containing mushrooms which thrive in feces rich environments, a common feature of the African grasslands during the period of early human evolution. Among these, psilocybin cubanesis, also known as Straforia cubanesis or magic mushrooms, stands out as a primary species containing psilocybin. Psilocybin's effects, enhanced visual acuity, heightened awareness, and the promotion of social cohesion would have offered immediate survival advantages for early humans. These benefits could have translated into better hunting, improved foraging, and stronger group bonds, ultimately accelerating cognitive development. By meeting all the outline criteria, psilocybin containing mushrooms emerge as Mckenna's leading candidate for the hallucinogenic catalyst that spurred the rapid evolution of human consciousness.

1:29:18 This quote UN quote missing link may not be a fossil, but a fungus, one that profoundly shaped the course of human history. Done well, not done. Done but done but that. Done. Yep, I'm with it. I love Terence. Terence is my spirit animal dude. I love Terence McKenna. If you love him so much, maybe you should marry him. I would if he wasn't dead. Well, make him undead and then marry him. Yeah, maybe I will. Just make him undead. Yeah, easy. Using psilocybin though, you have to do that. Yeah, that's the way he would want to come back. Yes, and the Frankenstein technique of shocking him with a lightning bolt.

1:30:03 Well, we're almost two hours in, so I'm just going to jump into the next bit. We still have, we have this one and we have two shorter ones, Medical. What is it about magic mushrooms, specifically their active compound psilocybin, that makes them such a compelling candidate as a catalyst for the rapid advancement of human consciousness and intelligence? Research offers intriguing clues. According to Psychology Today, doctor Charles Grob from the University of California, Los Angeles and colleagues conducted a study in the early 90s exploring the effects of regular ayahuasca use in Brazil. They found that individuals who consumed ayahuasca regularly scored significantly higher on neuropsychological tests compared to non users. Additionally, Dr. Rafael dos Santos, also from Brazil, discovered that ayahuasca increases the thickness of the anterior cingulate cortex, a critical brain region associated with cognition and emotion.

1:31:08 As noted in Psychiatry Online, this part of the brain is essential for solving problems and navigating the social world. A thicker anterior cingulate cortex enhances emotional regulation, autonomicon integration, and pain perception. If psilocybin mushrooms became a cultural staple among our early ape ancestors, regular consumption over generations could have triggered a similar enlargement of the anterior cingulate cortex, potentially accelerating cognitive and emotional development. The practice of consuming hallucinogens is well documented in many indigenous cultures worldwide, suggesting that such traditions may have ancient roots.

1:31:56 Modern research also highlights the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics, which may shed light on their evolutionary advantages. As Psychology Today explains, controlled psychedelic use fosters mindfulness and quote UN quote decentering the ability to observe thoughts and emotions without the over identifying with them, without over identifying with them. This heightened self-awareness enables more nuanced social interactions and enhances cultural learning. Many therapeutic approaches today, such as cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, and DIAL Dialectical dialectical behavioral therapy, or DBT, incorporate mindfulness and decentering principles to improve mental health outcomes under supervised conditions.

1:32:49 Psychedelics have been shown to enhance cognitive functions such as processing speed, memory, creativity, and problem solving. These properties have led to the development of a class of medicines called psychoplastogens, which rapidly induce neuroplasticity after a single dose. According to Psychology Today, psychoplastogens trigger several critical changes in brain function, including neurogenesis, or the growth of new neurons, snaptogenesis, the formation of new connections between these neurons, remyelination, the repair of myelin, the insulating layer around neurons, and activation of silent synapsis, turning previously inactive synapses into functional ones.

1:33:38 Psilocybin, in particular, mimics serotonin in the brain, acting as a neurotransmitter that directly stimulates neurogenesis. This process not only promotes the formation of new neural pathways but also helps alleviate extreme fear and PTSD, fostering courage and empathy, qualities vital for leadership and social cohesion. Now imagine these effects in the context of our early ancestors. Could the consumption of these psilocybin mushrooms have enhanced their cognitive abilities, emotional regulation, and social bonds? Did these magic mushrooms play a role in developing traits like leadership, cooperation, and innovation? When we reflect on the behavior of our feces loving ape ancestors and the transformative potential of psilocybin, we're left to wonder, is this how it all began? What happened to Jake?

1:34:34 I think he got naked. Well, no, he would have got naked. You would have been out too. So he didn't get naked. Jake. Might have been a smaller Tomahawk cruise missile. You might have heard that though you're close enough so maybe it was more like a bunker Buster. No explosive, just high velocity impact round there. There he is. There's got to be a different way, man. I touch the cable on the back of my mic and it kicks me out. Like there's got to be a better way than this. So the problem. That I have is from what we can see in primates these days is that there is a leader, right? And any, any amount of rising up or trying to become a better leader than the leader that's already installed leads to horrible interactions of dominance and fighting and all that sort of stuff. So not everyone could have been on psilocybin if it creates this leadership role in a person, right? They would have had to have been beta males and AA males or else they would have been kicked out of the tribes and gone to to screw off somewhere else.

1:35:44 Which I guess could be possible, but still it's the same way. Like in your work center, if you're the supervisor, right? You're the alpha male and you have another alpha male underneath you. It causes conflict unless they just assume the role of I am not the alpha because I am working below this individual. There's going to be conflict the entire time until someone gets fired right and kicked out of the tribe. Essentially. It'd be the same way Not everyone could be taking psilocybin and getting this, you know, I'm the leader sort of personality on them, whether it was male or female and have a a functioning. Well, that doesn't happen.

1:36:30 That that works together, right? That doesn't happen. The ego goes away when you're when you're hallucinating. So the the alpha aspect it it goes away. Well, that's what they're saying. It it that that's what it spawns. They're saying psilocybin spawns a leadership type quality. So that means that either they're wrong or you're wrong. No, perhaps. But I don't think necessarily in the like alpha versus alpha sense, like societal control, like, you know, I, I don't think in that sense necessarily because at least for me, in my experience, like the ego pretty much goes away. You know, it, it becomes more, if I had to, if I had to describe leadership somehow in that state, it'd be more so like you're more charismatic and, you know, open to communicating and like, I don't know, maybe more convincing. I guess you might be able to tap into some deeper layer of personability.

1:37:35 Would it be different from Someone Like You who's already conscious and self aware versus an animal who isn't? Could be, yeah. I mean, I don't know, I said that before, right? I don't know how pre human humans or whatever, however you want to phrase that would have reacted to this, but I just don't necessarily ever experience any type of ego trip or like, you know, alpha threat, you know, and I've done these types of things with other dudes, so. Other dudes you say? Yeah, not not. Like in a hot room where y'all are stripped down and you're just like, let's take some mushrooms. Nope, not in those type of situations. The best situation I can tell it's set in setting is everything right?

1:38:19 If you sit in your room because your room is the most comfortable place, right? And even in your house, I would imagine your room or whatever is your most comfortable room in your house. And you put on Genesis, you put on Genesis live on YouTube, Genesis live 1973, I think 19721973 Genesis live with Peter Gabriel. And you watch that on repeat on, on psilocybin. You will have the greatest night of your life. You're welcome. Why? 'Cause it's just an amazing live set and you just get so hyper focused and like you understand what they were writing and what they were performing and of all of the music and entertainment and laser shows and all the random shit that I've watched, that was like the one that was the one, it hit different.

1:39:08 Nah, dude. Tool letter Alice. That's a good one too. It sounds. I've done that too. And balls. I've done that too. That's a good one too. But that's that's deep, man. And there's like some dark undertones to that and like it's, it's kind of worse, but you can just. Live, though, you can do his stuff. Perfect circle. And he's talking about he just hates God. And it comes out in that song, Judith. I mean, it just, it's apparent, right? So yeah, I know there's deep dark undertones and stuff. Oh. Yeah, Genesee fly was fun, if we all. Just kind of tripped on psilocybin dips listening to music the whole time. This is tripping our balls off, isn't?

1:39:49 That what we're doing right now? Is that the only one? No, you're the only one. I got our mouth all the time. Nicotine. That's it are. You guys ready? I'm just going to knock out these last two. Let's get it over with, bet. And then we'll do the last giveaway in this history. In the southern Sahara Desert with Algeria's Tassili Najer Plateau lies a treasure trove of ancient artwork etched into the sheer rock walls. These Neolithic era paintings, dating back to between 10,000 BC and 2000 BC, provides some of the earliest visual evidence of humanity's interaction with hallucinogenic substances. The artwork vividly portrays figures, believed to be shamans, engage in ritualistic dances holding clusters of mushrooms. Mushrooms are prominently featured in these scenes, not only as objects in their hands but also depicted in the surrounding environment and even appearing to emerge from the bodies of the figures.

1:40:48 Adding to the mystique are the geometric patterns and abstract shapes interwoven with the imagery, suggesting that the artist may have been depicting the visual distortions and hallucinogens brought on by psilocybin use. These depictions beg to question, how far back does the human relationship with psilocybin mushrooms truly extend and when did these enigmatic fungi first begin influencing the minds of proto humans? Science. Paul Stamets, a renowned mycologist, sheds light on the ancient history of fungi though through fascinating fossil discoveries. In a southern African lava bed, scientists found evidence of mycelium filled mushrooms fused with hardened lava dating back an astounding 2.4 billion years. On the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, and it's highlighted that the earliest known multicellular Organism in the fossil record is a fully intact fossilized fungus from 1.4 billion years ago.

1:41:55 Stamets also explained that animals and fungi share a common ancestor and diverge around 650 million years ago. This means fungi in their current physical form have existed 1.75 billion years longer than animals have been distinct from them. These insights aligned with finding reported findings reported in a Discover magazine article November 2004, where microbiologist Mitchell Sogan explored the evolutionary ties between animals and fungi. When asked whether humans could be seen as a highly evolved mushroom, Sogan remarked. I'd say we share a common, unique evolutionary history with fungi.

1:42:38 There are there was a single ancestral group of organisms and some split off to become fungi and some split off to become animals. This raises intriguing questions. Are humans in a way in evolved form of fungi? And if fungi are so ancient, could they possess intelligence or even a form of consciousness? Hints of fungal intelligence can be observed in experiments like 1 conducted in Japan in 2010. Scientists arranged oats to represent the location of major cities around Tokyo, for the city of Tokyo itself symbolized by a piece of oat covered in the slime mold Ferrousum polycephalum, a type of filamentous multicellular fungus.

1:43:26 Once the slime mold was placed on the oat representing Tokyo, it began to grow, connecting to the surrounding oats over 28 hours. Astonishingly, the slime mold constructed pathways that were more efficient than the actual Tokyo railway system in terms of cost, travel time, and resilience to disruptions. Even without a brain or nervous system, the slime mold demonstrated cellular intelligence that outperformed human engineered transportation networks. These findings hint at the remarkable problem solving abilities of fungi and their potential for intelligence, even the absence of a traditional brain. Could fungi hold secrets to understanding the roots of consciousness or intelligence in life? And that's it.

1:44:17 Yeah, I think that's super interesting. How do you think it's interesting? What'd you say? I said. I also think it's interesting. I'm going to try to bring this up because I I went down a deep rabbit hole with with this. Yeah, I'll just nutshell that for anybody who might have just like kind of didn't grasp all what he was just saying. Essentially, they in Tokyo, they took fungus and they allowed it to what was it, the subway system. Yeah. So here I'm going to share this real quick. They like replicated the sub the the fungi created like a better version of the subway system, like mapped out like the way that it was or whatever.

1:44:58 How this shit is intelligence man? Here you go, there's so key. Here that is like bridging that's. Probably. This is probably the best one, right? So what they did was they put oats on each one of these little towns or cities that the subway system went to, right, right. So one of them was Tokyo, which I believe was like right in this area. And this is the, the Tokyo network, the, the, the, the railway network that they use. And then when the mold moved to get the oat from the Tokyo spot, that which is seen right here, you can see this guy right here.

1:45:46 This is kind of it moving out. It created a better system for the railway system than what human engineers were able to do. That's not more pricing though, because pathway the mold, as it grows and expands, it doesn't need to go from place to place to place because it's translating with its own mold body or whatever, right. It's yeah, yeah. One classic. Exact, like it's like a tree root system. The tree roots don't have to branch from one stem to another stem across because it's all feeding into the tree, right? The center mold is the same way.

1:46:30 So where humans have to go from one stop to one stop to one stop to one stop and make a big U-turn or whatever, right. That makes sense. But for mold, I mean, it's contained within the same body. So if it branches out over here, it doesn't then have to create pathways over here. It just the the yeah, food and the nourishment translates back into the main body of it, right. So, yeah, I mean, it, it makes sense in a way that it's like, you know, how did this mold or this this fungi know how to be so self-sufficient and so, you know, get into the spot without wasting any extra energy.

1:47:14 But that's kind of what they do, I mean. You know what else is interesting? And I don't know if this is in your last little piece here or not, Jeremy, but. I'm done. OK. But basically they've also, there's also been studies that were done where they can show that the mycelium network that essentially covers the entire planet for the most part that it communicates with itself over distances. So like they've they've been able to like, and I don't remember the exact methods that they use for these studies, but essentially they were able to like track signals that were happening X distance away through the mycelium network over here. So you know the information that you know, you cut down a tree in California, here in Florida, like the trees know about it, right? Like the mycelium, all of the plants and everything grow through this mycelium network, not just the fungi, right? But the the mycelium network is the fungi. So it is the earth essentially, if you want to think about it that way.

1:48:14 Everything that grows and lives on the earth grows through and. You could say that Mother Earth knows. Mother Earth, Yeah, that's some real shit, right? Like that's some tree hugger hippie shit. But there's some truth to it, right? Could. You could you imagine if these UFOs were just fungi? They could be right. Like some people are saying they're biological craft. They're like some weird biological craft. I mean, I'm just, that's a kind of crazy. But who knows? Who knows? Anything's possible. I'm going with it. Yeah. We're scientists. Or anything. It's fungus. But it is super interesting that the mycelium network is intelligent enough, right? At least it seems to have information travel through it, so it's like.

1:48:57 I mean, that makes sense in the same way that a tree is so big, but if you puncture the roots or puncture the trunk or whatever it was, it will provide SAP to provide a barrier and seal that spot up. It's not too outlandish that if an Organism like fungi or whatever was so big with like a root that it would be able to translate a penetration of its system, right? It isn't really that crazy to think of, but. If it's like. On a worldwide scale, I mean that certainly is injured.

1:49:38 It's also interesting to me just to think like, and I don't know if this is true. This is just my brain running right is like, you know, if the whole world is mycelium and it's all connected and we grow from this as well, right? Like our, you know, we're part of this, this network as well. And then you think. About stuff, Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. And then you talk about what we were saying earlier about like the photon being looking like the thing that observes it, right? Like it's all connected on some weird created, simulated weird way. It's almost the same thing with the mycelium, right? It's like, you know, we are the mycelium, but we also are the thing that experiences what the psilocybin does. Like we have the brain to experience the psilocybin, we have the eye to experience the photon. Like it's like it's all a creation in some weird way, like maybe it's a simulated.

1:50:32 Yeah, it's Is it a coincidence that a Dick looks like a mushroom? And we'll know because the and that's that goes back. Listen, that's important because that goes back to what I was saying earlier when I was telling Jake that there are a lot of people who have broken down like and theorize. I'll say that that. Everything that might be also macro. Everything, all the abromic religions are related to mushroom worship because there's so many like phallic symbols and like all this type of stuff. And it's like there's something to the mushroom looking like, you know, having a phallic symbol as well. Like this is part of the whole connected thing I think. I think it goes way deeper than that. I think that everything micro is also macro and the same way we see atoms, those like galaxies, we see the human eyeball and it looks like a star system, right?

1:51:27 It's just like everything micro is also macro because it's, it's all the same. It's it's like you were saying earlier when you asked me, you know, if I thought that we could have been made from like a species that are existed, right, or whatever it was. And I, I gave you the example the, the whale hands essentially right where they're in the flippers, but the bones look like human hands. I think that I think that it's for the most part the same design, just in a bigger or smaller scale. Well, yeah. Do you remember like everybody's freaking out when we got like the pictures of the universe, if you want to call them pictures, and they were like, oh, it looks like the neuron pathways of the brain, right?

1:52:17 Like they're like, do you guys remember? Well, also, I just want to point out that the mycelium network looks exactly the same. So that is the fractal thing that you're talking about, right? Like the universe looks like the mycelium network looks like the neural pathways. And you require all three to experience all three. Like it's a weird, it's a weird fucking phenomena, right? That and to me, in my opinion, that is what's coded in like the Bible as the the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, the Holy Trinity to me is something like that. I'm not saying that is the thing, but it is a similar connection, right? Like where you have this fractal thing where it requires all three of the things to experience all three of the things, right? Like, that's what I get out of that personally. Would you say that what how are you phrasing it? Is that that that my CM layer?

1:53:12 Is that a dirt thing or is that a like growing up the side of the trees type thing? So like if a tree got harvested, like AI got some trees in my my yard that I need to get down because otherwise they're going to die. They're already dead at the top, but they're going to fall in the house and kill both of us. If I harvest that or I cut it down or right with a chainsaw or whatever, does that disturb the mycelium layer? Or is it with like if I remove the stump and got down into the earth? Yeah, you have to go down a little bit. I mean, I, from what I understand, generally speaking, the mycelium layer is like down in the dirt, like in the substrate. But you know, of course, things are growing up from that substrate.

1:53:59 So it's bringing spores and it's bringing things out to the surface. So if you were to go sample, let's say like do a swab sample on the side of that tree, I'm sure you would find, you know, mycelium spores out here as well. But how? Crazy. Would that be Jeff? If I was like, all right, dude, I'm going to dig a hole. And then somehow we could see that and observe that on a microbial level and see that the fungus registered that until wherever it's centrally located on the earth, right, that it recognized me digging A2 by two hole in the ground.

1:54:46 We might be able to one day, right? I mean, like, like I said, they've already got like a general mapping of what this mycelium network looks like, just like the the neural networks and whatever. So it's like they kind of know what this looks like. And it's only a matter of time before we have the technology to see it like acting in real time. And I think in some of these laboratories, they've done this. This is how they know that like this network is communicating. But you know, give it a couple years, give some AI on it, and then boom, and we'll have your iPhone to be able to fucking see it, right? As much as we fought in this episode or debated, it's brought me a lot more clarity on exactly what consciousness is because I thought conscious was just self-awareness and just knowing that you exist. But here we are, we're talking about all these different things, you know, and, and it's honestly kind of sort of opened my eyes as to like what consciousness really is. It's it's pretty incredible.

1:55:42 I have some really good topics coming up for you then. You better be ready for a debate, OK? And make it upset and defensive. This was a good episode all. Right, you guys want to watch this video? Sure, and what's up? All right, so real quick for the last giveaway, you have to be in the chat right now. So we're going to play this video. We're going to watch what this what this fungus does. It's going to go over the Tokyo thing that we were talking about. But you have to put in the chat the word shrooms. OK?

1:56:26 If you put the word shrooms in it, then you will be entered into the final drawing. No repeat winners. Sorry, Skeeter. Sorry, Wollens. So only new people put shrooms in the chat and those will be entered for the last T-shirt. All righty. Are we removing the old names? Yes, yeah, removing everybody, starting from scratch. Going to be only Ken's are. That's fine. Well, for those who win should still be here, right? If he's still here, still still. Listening to viewers. Yeah, now he's he went to bed, bro. Yeah, he has to get up early as fuck tomorrow. Oh really man, I feel bad then.

1:57:08 It's 11:30 here. All right, you got this kid. Good luck. I. Don't know if that's fair, I literally watched the mold expand on all sides. It found the nutrient right and then it collapse itself into that being the main pathway to the next thing. The most efficient pathway those if. We had. Well, yeah, but if we had done that, it would literally be just rail stations literally going everywhere until we found the next town and be like, OK, well this is the main one, let's X the rest of them. Sure. Well, this is again goes back to the like, you need the other piece, you need the other tool, right?

1:57:49 Like you need the brain, you need the human brain in order to like actually make sense of what this intelligence is in decoding it and putting it into like the real world, right? Like the cellular intelligence can't build skyscrapers, but you feed that human being and it goes into the brain and it does something to where it gives this person the ability to like think of the engineering needed to build a skyscraper and make it happen, right? I'm not saying it's like that simple or that direct, but, you know, give it a few 1000 years, a million years. That's the type of shit that I think the argument is is trying to be made. Right, I suppose. I suppose. All right, let's get this last one done.

1:58:31 Got two people. In the wheel. All right, we got. Hold on. Give me my fucking mouse. There it is. It's way past my bedtime. You guys were so lucky. I love you guys. Love. It so much. Spin the wheel. Spin the wheel Crystal. Let me find out. It's Kenzar here. My gosh. For those who died is just getting wrecked wrecked. He's. The only one with his name on the wheel. Twice. Three times. Hey, all right, so for those who died, go ahead and send me your your information too. I'm going to throw one your way as well. Yeah. Yeah. You get the fucking, the pity. In the pity shirt.

1:59:15 Pity shirt. Hey, you know what, if they want one, they got it, kid. Congratulations. Congratulations to everybody who who won the shirts for those who died. Been around watched a bunch of these these shows. I appreciate the support. Really, do go ahead and send your information over to Infant Rabbit Hole at Gmail dot. Com on that fucking shirt too man hell. Yeah, bro, hell yeah. I'll spill some milk on it for you. Put some Bigfoot milk on that shirt. Dude, yeah, everyone else that that one today I either know in person or have open chats too. So go ahead, you better spin that wheel. Only for those who died.

2:00:04 But no, thank you everybody that this was great 200 episodes in, and now I just got to figure out how I'm going to be able to top it for episode 302 years. So we'll see. In person in Florida, in the Shadow Band podcast studio. And then we make a trip to NASA and we ask the hard fucking questions. Do you guys poop? Yeah. How do you open? Space. Fucking how do you open up the Hatch to the don't let me get into it, OK, Don't let me get into it. Because you have the squirts in space, we ask them the hard questions. Yeah, that's a question where everyone wants to know, but yeah, kid, I'll, I'll send your shirt whenever I get word that that that whole thing is taken care of because I'm not sending that shit right now. Send.

2:00:50 Me my UFO day shit. Yeah, I still have to get a fuck. I got to go in. Jake never grabbed his stuff last night. Sorry, I'll I'll send him this. I'm going to come back for another UFO days. Leave more shit there. I, I'm, I'm going to send out some stuff for him and Crystal anyway. So I got, I got some stuff to to throw their way so I, I could, we could just throw it on one thing. Dude, I got you. Blank wall space right here. Yeah. What are you going to put there? UFO days stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, great. Anyways, all right, well, that has been the 200th episode of the Infinite Rabble podcast. Thank your buddy 200, Jake and I. Damn, I remember when we shot episode 1 and episode -1 and -2 negative 3.

2:01:42 The ones that will never ever so. Did I join? Do you remember? I think you officially started with episode 54, which is American Bigfoot. 150 episodes. Hey, man. Hell yeah. None of which were you is all Jeremy. No that's not true. Chachi PT did an episode. I did 2 right? I did 2 and chachi PT did one. Chachi PT. That was a good episode and it it was it ranked in our ranks. It was our fucking. List I. Can't listen. I just did that to prove a point the AI. Do not do.

2:02:23 No, and I did edit it. Jeff did one time. He'll probably do it every time, but. I didn't copy paste it directly. I did it and then I edited it. You know, I did some work on it and just spit it out. But yeah, Chad TPT did a lot. Right, all right, well, I got to go to bed because I got to go to work. Me too all. Right, everybody, thank you. Thank you everybody for all of the years of support and helping us get to where we are today, and I hope you guys enjoy the shirts. I know I enjoy my shirt. I got it. Now I got to go enslave my wife to make four more. Bro this shirt's dope. Yeah, man. Yeah.

2:03:04 All right, guys, take it easy. I'm going to. Bye. There you go. Hey everybody, thanks for checking out the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Bye.