202. The Murphysboro / Big Muddy Monster Part 2

0:38 Welcome back to the incident Rabbit Hole. I'm your host, Jeremy. Today we're going to finish up our coverage on the Murfreesboro slash Big Muddy Monster. We're going to start off with some sightings from the 70s, but before that, let's go ahead and say hello to the Co host, Jeffrey. How's it going, man? It's. Going, bro, Yeah. How's it going with you? It's going tired dude. I'm 45 pages into my book writing. You're writing. Yeah, that's sick dude. And happy for you bro. I'm absolutely exhausted. I would probably pass out right now if I could. If you fall asleep, we're putting it on Patreon.

1:19 It'll just let people watch you sleep. That's fine dude, if I fall asleep put me on the Internet, that's cool. Also, I'm sponsored by Northwest Root Beer 0 Sugar because it was the only thing that was in the fridge to drink today. We're going to get sued so hard. All right. Moving on, Jacob. Hello, Sir. Yes, Sir. Hello, Sir. Jeff's not just tired, he's also upset because I just kicked his hippie lifestyle in the face through a barrage of opinions. Complete facts that can't be argued against because they're absolutely true. So, you know, because I'm awesome. Someone call me the best. I can't be Trump.

2:03 I'm not sponsored by, but I am drinking Buchanan's Deluxe 12 year old blended Scotch whiskey, so that's cool. With a spotted cow as a backup. I'm kind of bummed today because I'm trying to sell my bed cap and the guy who was supposed to come over completely ghosted me. Like AD bag, which I'm kind of sick of. That stuff sucks. Yeah, they hear, Yeah. Well, that'll teach you. Oh and I like to gesticulate so if anyone sees I'm wearing a a wrist brace, don't freak out in the chat. I didn't hurt myself. I have carpal tunnel.

2:44 It makes my hands go numb. So I have to wear a wrist brace and I need to start wearing it more often so. That's wearing it as a fashion statement. He's trying to bring back his emo phase and he thought that wearing one of those cool arm sleeves would be the thing. Listen, it's all. It's part of the bigger plan. I gotta do it like this. I gotta bring it all forward. It's not. It's being like the night. I'm not for you. I got it's not really working out. Yeah, it's not a phase, mom. This is who I really am. I talk in upward inflections. I talk in a Valley girl accent. I'm from California.

3:24 Look at you man. Look at me getting comfortable with yourself. I like it. Was it a phase, Jeff? I know it's listen, I'm still in the phase myself. Or I know you're still a hippie. Gross. All right, before we get started, we are coming live to you tonight from twitch.tv/infinite Rabbit Hole. We are live every Sunday at 8:30 P or 8:00 PM Central Standard Time. That's 6 Eastern. No, it's 9 Eastern, 6 Pacific. For those of you who are not signed up yet, head on over to patreon.com/infinite Rabbit Hole for instant access to new episodes. So I have been averaging getting a new episode out a day or two after the episode is recorded.

4:14 This, this particular episode, will not be hitting the air until January 28th. Just to give you an idea, today is November 17th, so a little over two months of access to this episode before the rest of the world hears it. If you were to sign up. Obviously by the time that the world hears this, that time will have been long gone, but our catalog will be huge by then, so you'll have plenty to entertain yourself. Plus, hopefully by then we'll have some Patreon exclusive episodes.

4:54 There has been a tease by Sir Jacob to bring a Patreon exclusive episode to go along with the next three episodes that are coming out. And that is, well, actually by the time this comes out, everyone will know. But it's the, the US congressional hearing stuff that I mean, mostly this is for the, the, the people who are live in the chat tonight. We are going to be live again tomorrow night, Monday, November 18th to wrap up our coverage on the US congressional hearing on UA PS and UFOs. So make sure you stop by, say hi and finish watching the video with us. It's going to be video heavy because we got to squeeze a bunch of it into the episode more than we did on the 1st 2. So it's going to be video heavy.

5:45 Be ready for that. And of course, just a friendly reminder that head on over to infiniterabbithole.com and click on the red microphone button on the bottom right hand side. Leave us a message so we can play it at the beginning of our next episode. All right, well, I've got all the front matter done. You guys ready to roll? You guys got anything to put out? Nope, Nope. All right, we're going to jump right into the 70s. Y'all ready to roll? I'm ready, brother. Oh yeah. I didn't realize I was muted. I said no, I don't put out. OK, good. All right. The 1970s. July 1972 in Cairo, IL Leroy Summers was out jogging along the levee on the western shore of the Ohio River in Cairo, IL on the evening of July 25th, 1972 when he witnessed a large bipedal creature standing at least 10 feet tall with whitish Gray hair covering its body with what looked like a red stain on its stomach next to a nearby brick building. Whatever it was, it had a very large head and it was Summers's belief that the red stain on his belly was clay or dirt from the area, but also could have been an Auburn colored spot of body hair or fur.

7:00 June 1973. Prairie de Roche On the night of June 8th, 1973, thebfro.net reports the story of a woman who is out sleeping under the stars with her horse and her German Shepherd. She had picked out a clean location near a large sinkhole and set up camp with a small fire and a skillet of bacon frying in the pan. The spot where she sat was only 10 feet away from the sinkhole, which had a large 20 foot tree growing out from it with the tips extending a few feet past the lip of the hole. At some point early on in the night, a whining sound began emanating from the sink hole and the trees that were growing from it Within 6 inch wide trunks were shaking violently and an awful smell permeated the air. Her German Shepherd alerted towards the noise and her horse began to nay and stomp.

8:00 Quickly the whining became more of a growl and then they expanded into a full out scream which caused her to throw dirt on the fire and get out of the area as fast as she could. There are multiple things this could have been, but due to the way the trees were shaking and the sheer power behind the screams, she believes that whatever it was, it was massive. June 1973. Murfreesboro, Illinois Later in the month on June 25th, the Monster made one of its most well known appearances in the lore and records of the Murfreesboro Monster. 19 year old Randy Needham and 28 year old Judy Johnson were parked by the boat ramp in Riverside Park in Murfreesboro in Needham's car making out when a large 7 to 8 foot bipedal man shaped figure was spotted by Needham walking from the direction of the Big Muddy River covered head to toe in mud. Needham and Johns left immediately took their time driving the Murfreesboro Police Department. The reason for the delay was that Judy Johnson was married to another man and did not want to make the report and risk getting caught in her affair.

9:11 In fact, both of them were married and we're having an affair at the time. But eventually she gave in and the two reported the incident to the police station. At 11:55 PM that night, Officers Jimmy Nash and M Lindsay were dispatched and began the investigation of the scene. There they found multiple large prints in the mud on the shore of the freshly receded Big Muddy River, even snapping a few and including them in the official Murfreesboro Police report #73 TACK 2547. The prints were all very different, with the average size being 10 to 12 inches long and three to four inches deep in the mud, with strides from very close together to five to six feet apart.

9:58 Other than the prints, there was nothing else that was found to be unusual. At around 3:00 AM, the investigation would take a turn to the strange when Officer Nash was bent over investigating a print in the mud. A loud scream would belt out from the nearby trees, loud enough for Nash to pull out a service pistol. But as he drew his weapon, he dropped the gun into the mud before he and newly on scene Officer Scott ran away as fast as they could and took off in their cruisers. Nash, who had returned later to recover his weapon, explained that it was his belief that this scream had not come from an owl, coyote, or any other animal that he knows of.

10:38 This report is considered to be one of the hallmark encounter stories of the Murfreesboro monster due to the risk the reporters would have to take to report such an incident during their Black Ops make out session. The physical evidence recorded with the official police report and the scream that was loud and threatening enough to make 2 police officers leave without retrieving one of their weapons after dropping it. Now there is one asterisk that I would like to add to the story. When reading Chad Lewis, Noah Voss and Kevin Lee Nelsons book The Big Muddy Monster Legends Sightings and Other Strange Encounters. Chad Lewis includes a section of a chapter on the possibility that this particular event was a hoax played on the unsuspecting adulterers in the car that night by the boat landing.

11:28 A man that Chad Lewis used with a pseudonym Willie for was a known costume designer in the area in 1973. This Willie character would claim that he was responsible for the sighting that night when he and a group of friends dressed him up in a monster suit that he had created, smashed some mud on the suit, and spread what they referred to as quote UN quote monster stink juice around the boat ramp to try and mimic the reports that were being filed of the Murfreesboro monster at the time. He would make this original claim while being interviewed for a book titled History, Mystery and Hauntings of Southern Illinois by Bruce and Lisa Klein and was the first source to use the pseudonym for the man. But Lewis points out a flaw in the in the story that is provided by Willie.

12:15 In 2019 when this book was published, it had been over 45 years since the sighting at Riverside Parks boat landing and the statue of limitations for petty crimes like disturbing the peace would have long expired. So the claim made by Willie for the sake secrecy and the unwillingness to come forward in a more public manner for fear of legal repercussions doesn't make sense. June 1973. Murfreesboro, Illinois. The very next night, Murfreesboro police report #73TAC2566. Only 19 reports after the previous one mentioned, and about 24 hours later outlined two other reports of an unknown IPO creature covered in white hair.

12:59 The first sighting was by a five year old boy named Christian Beryl who was playing in the backyard when he came running into the house crying that he just saw a very large ghost outside. Just 10 minutes later, teenagers Randy Creeth and Cheryl Ray were sitting in the front porch of Ray's house when they watched a large white creature walk out of the tree line on two legs. Creeth reported the creature as being 7 to 8 feet tall and estimated it weighing between 300 and 350 lbs and described it as having dirty white hair with very large shoulders and arms and what were described as self illuminating red eyes. But the red eyes are a detail that not all retellings mentioned that are included in this official report. Ray's mother would be the first to call the police and make the report, and officers Nash and Man Worrying, as well as the local dog handler by the name of Jerry Nellis were dispatched to the neighborhood.

13:59 There they found a path that something big had taken. The growth was stopped down and a clear pathway could be seen showing exactly where the creature was coming from and where it was going. Nellis's dog, Reb, discovered multiple small piles of a black slimy substance along the path. The creature took down the hill and every time the dog found a new spot, it would hesitate before approaching, something Nellis claimed was strange for Reb to do Ultimately, Red LED three men to the barn of Ralph Fuller, but was completely unwilling to enter the building, which was another strange occurrence. According to Nellis, The two officers would search the barn but were unable to find anything out of the ordinary. July 1973.

14:43 Murfreesboro, Illinois On July 7th, 1973, the Miller Carnival was in town and was set near the Big Muddy River with the boat ramp from the June 25th sighting that caused an officer to drop his weapon in the mud in the backdrop. At about 2:00 AM, four carnival workers witnessed a large quote 7 to 8 foot tall creature on two legs estimated to be between 300 and 400 lbs standing at the fence of the pony field. Just standing there and watching the ponies. It would disappear after the carnival workers tracked down the owner, but would reappear at about 3:00 AM in almost the same spot, still very interested in the ponies.

15:25 It's unclear if the creature was looking at the animals for entertainment or as a possible food source, but the encounter almost went unreported due to the fear that it would scare patrons away, as the owner only mentioned the strange event in passing to a few police officers who attended the carnival. Officer Nash was yet again and one of the officers involved and he took it seriously enough to file another official report for the event. 1974 the 1979. Many other small reports would be recorded throughout the rest of the 70's. The white haired, bipedal, enormous creature would be described by witnesses from all over the area. Some reports specifically claimed that the thing looked like a large white gorilla as reported by 4 separate truckers just West of Murfreesboro in 1975.

16:11 Another sighting in 1975 by a few frog hunters described it as large, white and shaggy. 3 teenage boys in September of 1974 would pull over an attempt to track down the culprit of a horrible smell in the air near the Trail of Tears State Forest South of Murfreesboro, where they spotted a large white bipedal creature with a head they estimated as being one to two feet wide with piercing blue eyes. When investigators arrived, they found enormous tracks that resembled those of a dog. Then there were some reports that claim that the creature was jet black, like the sighting report on Happy Hollow Rd. in the fall of 1975 or the sighting in Plum Field in September of 1977.

16:55 There were a lot of consistent details, along with the inconsistency of the color. Whatever it or they were, they were loud. Loud enough to scare off armed hunters with hunting dogs. It stunk. And it was huge, with almost all reports detailing at least a 7 foot tall creature, with a few mentioning 10 feet or greater. So that's it for the 70s. What do you guys think? That was a lot of fucking sightings. I want to go back to the one where we were talking about the statute of limitations being up and that kind of like making the story like bullshit. I don't think so because I don't, I don't necessarily think a lot of people even know what the statute of limitations are for a lot of crimes.

17:39 So maybe he just thought it wasn't 1, you know, didn't even know that was a fucking thing. So apparently this guy had been approached multiple times about the statute of limitations and, you know, was explained what it was and was like, hey, man, why don't you just come forward in some sort of official, you know, setting and not just in an interview with an author. Why don't you go, you know, put this story to bed so that, you know, people can have answers to questions that they might have and he refused to. So I mean, although I agree with you, you know, I don't know, maybe something in the back of his mind is being like, yeah, I could probably still get in trouble for that. That's a good possibility.

18:20 Or just the? Social stick, You know I don't know you. Yeah, there's. Plenty of reasons why somebody wouldn't, you know, necessarily come forward, I guess. Well, whatever, I don't know. It doesn't. The only thing I'm saying that doesn't blow that one out of the water for me, because as soon as you said that he was like a known costume maker, I'm like, all right bro. Like it was probably. Like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not putting this to bed. I'm not on the other side on that one. Where you're talking about the trees that were that were being shook around and shit like that. Monkeys. Apes maybe? Or or or a Bigfoot. I mean, could be sure, right? I said on the last episode I thought it was probably a Bigfoot, but I'm just saying, like, could it have been an ape of some kind?

19:06 I mean, I know here in Florida there's been instances of apes being in the wild because they've escaped zoos or been let. Out There's 8 monkeys still at large in South Carolina. They're the AIDS monkeys. But have you ever seen like any type of ape, like moving through the jungle quickly, whether they're playing or doing something aggressively, like they'll grab and swing on smaller trees and like those trees move and. Like I'm gonna tell you, it's embarrassing how many videos of monkeys and apes I've watched to, to try to breakdown Bigfoot videos and stuff like that. Honestly, before I did the podcast, I, I had a YouTube channel that I'd started, but I had never uploaded a video to it.

19:47 But basically what I wanted to do was to dissect Bigfoot videos and clip in videos of like apes, gorillas, rantans, chimps doing similar walks and then also humans doing walks and costumes that it could have been like, you know, I wanted to really do a fake or fact. Sort of thing with Bigfoot videos and the amount of fucking videos that I watched is embarrassing. So yes, there are there are plenty, plenty of of reports of monkeys and apes going missing or free or, you know, escaped from some sort of private residence collection, rarely from zoos.

20:42 And then the the big one in the Sixties, 70s and 80s, which I believe is more of an urban legend than anything. I'm sure one or one or two had them, but every single time, every single Bigfoot urban legend that you hear Big Muddy Momo, Falk monster, Skunk ape, honey island swat monster, the Lorelei doesn't matter what it is. Everybody or every one of these topics has a urban legend story about a train derailment full of zoo animals. That or carnival animals that that you know, the this like I I believe it was the Honey Island swat monster where the, the train was derailed and the chimp group that was on the train mated with the local alligator population and created this monkey alligator hybrid creature.

21:47 Yeah, like if you look up, if you look up the Honey Island swamp monster, it's also a Bigfoot type creature, but it's it's footprints are three toed and looks more reptilian than anything, in fact. Definitely government chimera. Not a not a fucking fucking alligator, that's not. Happening this up Honey Island swamp monster. You know, I'm just saying like we'll get to. Mate with with great apes, yeah, but somehow it's going to go with a alligator, OK. Right. But you could probably in a laboratory splice the genetics and create something new. Well. Probably in a lab, not naturally well.

22:27 Right. Fun fact, Jeff, I don't know if you ever heard the very first, well, the episode 1 of the Infinite Rabbit Hole one and two, but we did it on the Hunting Island swamp monster in the Roogaroo. And because my buddy from the Navy, Mike, is actually from Slidell, Louisiana, and if we ever wanted to go down there and research this thing, we have an in, we can totally go down there and he would house us here. This is sort of a good picture of it. See what we got here for you guys Doo Doo. If you guys come down here man, hang out. We got some swamp creatures we could look for down here. So this is.

23:10 I want to hunt one of them swamp creatures. I. Don't know if you guys can see that OK, but this is this is one of the one of the more famous prints of the honey on swamp monster right here. But there's also a track way and. That's not a Cathy bar F foot. No, there's no cabin Paris in Louisiana. I don't think so. Oh, right here. This thing. Here you go. See this Right here. Yeah. That so the the urban legend here is that the Hunting Island swamp monster is a hybrid between escaped chimps from a carnival train and the local population of alligators. Goodness gracious.

23:57 Yeah. So we'll we'll dive back into that one at some point. Can you break down this? I want to say it's 1973. The couple that were having an affair and doing the good old make out sesh. It says police report number 732547 or yeah, 2547. The prints were all very different with the average size being 10 to 12 inches long and three to four inches deep in the mud with strides very close to together to five to six feet apart. So is that saying that they didn't think that the Prince had anything to do with the with the the siding or that they thought they did because it it doesn't the 11:50 inches long isn't crazy.

24:52 Three to four inches deep in the mud. That's, you know, I guess depending on the density of the mud or how wet it is. But the five to six, five to six foot strides, that's the crazy part. Yeah, that's huge, right? That's like. That's like an Olympic sprinter, you know? So with feet 10 to 12 inches long and a stride 5 to 6 feet, that's like these little little dancer feet with these long cast dancer legs, like on stilts or something. It's it's nuts. So this is the report, right? This one and one that we're going to get into here soon.

25:32 Dealing with a a junkyard like thing or junkyard like location. I can't exactly remember what they what it was. It was some we'll get into it in a minute. Those are the two big sightings, you know, like you have one or two, possibly three big ones with every urban legend story that we have that we've ever covered. Really this is the one, right. So later we'll get into the festival that they have there, the Big Muddy festival, and it is specifically held at Riverside Park next to this boat ramp. The one that this this sighting happens at. It's specifically held there for the reason of it being in the the location of the biggest sighting ever recorded. Now there are people that come out and say that the reason why they have footprints that are so big, or, I'm sorry, so different in sizes and, and dealing with different stride lengths and everything is because you had a group of kids down there or teenagers or young adults messing around. And that this guy's story of him being in the, the costume is true.

26:43 And that all you're seeing is the the footprints of all of his buddies down there helping him out with the prank. And that's where you would get the different size feet. That's where you would get the the different striations. Now, As for the five to six foot ones, I don't know. I don't know how many there was and how how long that trackway was. Was this something where there could have been other prints in the way and it just wasn't as clear. But it just kind of gave the illusion that it was 5 to 6 feet long. Maybe possibly. It's not clear. I did. There are some pictures of this and it I'm going to tell you right now it does not look like pictures whatsoever or I'm sorry, it doesn't look like pictures. These pictures don't look like pictures. It doesn't look like feet prints like human foot feet prints at all.

27:34 I. Think the other thing is while you're looking for that if they were. Escaped monkeys or apes or what? Excuse me, If they were escaped monkeys or apes, they would be definitive footprints that are monkey or ape like. So basically like handprints. Yeah, right. Because they have the opposable thumb on their feet. So they wouldn't look like Bigfoot feet prints, which look like ours with the exception of the mid tarsal break. It would be basically big handprints, right. So that's, that's the thing that kind of draws me away from the idea that there's escaped white gorillas running around out there because the footprints, if they ever got a footprint, would look like a gorilla footprint, not a Bigfoot footprint. Yeah.

28:26 Which actually I think it's kind of weird. Do we know if Gigantopithecus had gorilla feet or human feet? I don't know. That's a good question, because that's, I would think that the Gigantopithecus or the Australopithecus. No, it didn't. I, I would think that it had more human like looking feet, because I want to say that it was closer to, I mean, I, it was under the pan genus, but I want to say it had a lot more attributes to the Homo genus, which would, you know, have the characteristics of a human more than the pan. But here, I, I don't know if you guys can see this very well in the camera, but that is a picture of one of the prints right there in in Louis Foss and Nelson's book.

29:17 And as you can see that it looks like somebody just hit it with a stick. It's not, yeah, it's, it's really weird. And then here's a here's the other one here. These are the only two pictures apparently that exist for these these prints. But as you can see, like right here, that's a that's a pine needle right there. So it's not big, you know, it's, it's. Gigantopithecus was like a giant orangutan, yes. Yes. It was had orangutan shaped feet. Did it? I mean it makes. Sense it might blow a hole in this whole thing. So that means that Bigfoot would have to be something else entirely because why would it? Why would you know, like let's be real, the evolution, if we're going to say evolution, but the evolution of hands on your feet, especially if you live in the wooded tree type areas is like way better than not having hands for feet. So why would they ever lose that? So are you.

30:20 You're looking at Gigantopithecus. Yeah, because my whole thing has always been that like the Gigantopithecus came over the ice bridge with, you know, all the people going into North America and stuff like that. And maybe they're smaller than they used to be, or maybe they're the same size and people just spot young ones that are kind of dumb and just kind of out there goofing off. But either way, things don't change that fast. So if that was, you know, I don't know, 10,000 years ago, that's, I don't think that's enough time to lose a, a toe or to have it move to a different part of the foot even, you know, because I definitely believe in, in microevolution.

31:07 That's just adaptation, right? Versus macro evolution, which is like straight on one species to another. But even through adaptation, I don't know if that's enough time. Yeah, it's it's definitely not. I can't wait for episode 200. Yeah, I think it's going to be so much fun. So, so that there's a, there's a couple, really there's there's a couple species that are pointed to when it comes to the the closest ancestor to a Bigfoot, right. Gigantopithecus is only one of them. And it's literally Gigantopithecus only because of size, size.

31:50 And then it's general area in which its fossil records would be found. But there are, I said Gigantopithecus, right? Yeah, the the one that's been recently, and I, I say recently, like in like the last 10 years that has gotten the most steam is Australopithecus. Now Australopithecus is much smaller. It's about four, four to five feet tall. It's very similar to us. But these ones are very upright walking apes. If you look at them, they're they're smaller, they're frailer than. Oh yeah, I've seen these. Yeah, Australopithecus and here I could probably bring up I could bring up some pictures so that everyone else can see this, but this is supposed to be one of the links for man and also a possible branch for big feats and and the such. Let's see here I.

32:52 Don't know dude. There was like awful lot of inbreeding back in the day, you know? And that's another thing too, is. A few really jacked up looking people. Hey, it could definitely could have been here. You go yes, like, like, look, I'm, I'm seeing this right here. So it's just they, they have a few bones and the rest of it is just made out of plaster. So what that tells me is that they really have no idea, and they're just grasping at straws. It could have been its own primate species, and they're just like, Oh no, this is like a human. This is my argument about most of archaeology or what we think of as archaeologies, that they've just been telling us they've just been inferrings a bunch of shit off of like fragments and partial. Yeah, that's why giants just disappear when people discover them.

33:43 They're like the Smithsonian comes in and the bones are gone and all that sort of stuff because this is this is what they have. The brown starts are the skull and the rest of it's plaster. Yeah, you just start it that. Making it up as I go. Yeah. And like those pieces that they put there might not even be of there that those pieces could be fragments of like a shin bone or something else, right. Like and they're just sure a little fit if we make it part of like a jawbone and make it. And then we tell everyone, this is what your ancestors look like. And it's like, come. On this is clearly a tongue bone. It's a. It's a Wiener bone.

34:24 It's a boner bone. It's a whole bunch of fragments of toes. Yeah, give us back the giant bones, schmucks. Dude, I am so I am so excited about episode 200. I'm. I'm glad. Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off. I'm glad. But I'm going to say it anyway. I'm, I'm glad that you pulled up that picture because it was, I think out of the entire reading, like seeing that 10 to 12 inches long look. If big feet are real, if the big buddy monster is real, it has to grow up, right? So it wouldn't be born with size 18 feet, right? It would have to have and you know, feet proportional to its body.

35:10 Sure, but even that isn't necessarily accurate because I'm 6/1 and I have size 10 feet and I and I have a friend who's, you know, a few inches taller than me at at 6/4 and he has like size 15. And then I've also known people that are super tall and have little feet. You know, it doesn't necessarily translate into having huge feet means you have a huge body, right? Sometimes people are born with just flippers, right? But, you know, or the opposite, they're short people, but they have, you know, you know, 5-7 with size twelves, right? You just got basketball shoes on, right? You know, things like that, it doesn't always translate.

35:52 It's not just a carbon copy every single time of like a foot to body ratio, but even things have to grow up. But that five to six feet stride, I mean, that's really where it's like, OK, well, this is a big thing. Or at least has really long legs. Like I'd have to get a good Sprint in to get a good five to six foot stride. And I suppose if I was sprinting in mud, that hard impact boom every single time would be enough to probably get me three to four inches into the the mud. So I guess that's not too crazy. But yeah, you pulling up those pictures in that book? Yeah, that doesn't. I don't know where they were like, oh, those are footprints like. Man, I I tried, I tried.

36:34 Looking for the Blade Runner out there, Yeah. I tried looking for better versions of those pictures too, man, when I, when I first read that and I was like, I don't know, man. I, I because apparently those pictures are part of the official report that I believe we talked about it in the last episode. Maybe we talked about it in this one. I'm not sure. But there's an official report with Murfreesboro Police Department where they have an actual folder dedicated to Murfreesboro monster sightings. And these pictures are in there. They're the, they're the original proofs. So obviously whatever they saw that they thought it was important enough to take pictures of. So I'm kind of curious, but the to kind of trail back just a just a hair, you know, when it comes to the the possible species of what a Bigfoot could could potentially be. I would have to say that I believe that it's got to be some sort of hybrid, you know, something that's close in in ancestral distance so that they're not creating, you know, ligers where they can't breed and you know, but. Hey, that could be the reason for the small population. It it could be.

37:52 It could be, but. They're all mules. You know, I mean between the, I, I think the big three for the possibilities to create hybrids between them are the Australopithecus, the Gigantopithecus and the Denisovans. What? Was that last one. Denisovans, Yeah, I I could bring it up. They're they're more Neanderthal looking. They have cone shaped faces. Yeah, they. Look like Pacific Islanders. I I wouldn't say that, but. They look like some of the drawings that I'm looking at. Damn, cancelled. Here, I'll I'll bring it up. I got it.

38:33 Yeah. I mean, they're, they're like your standard cave in. They're not Neanderthals, right? The they're definitely down that, that path of evolution. But this is also, you know, when you when you think about what it could potentially be, you also have to think of time frame. And that's why Australia Pithecus, gigantic pithecus and the Denisovans are the most commonly referred to when it comes to possible immediate ancestors to a Bigfoot or Sasquatch type creature because they are some of our closer relatives in time and space to answer some of the questions for some of the the Bigfoot type creatures that are found around the world. And you know it.

39:24 You know when you talk about the Bigfoot all across the world where prone to only thinking about the North American northwestern Patty type Sasquatch. You know we're here in North America. They say that there could be up to 10 different subspecies alone. But when you go across the entire world, there's so many more, right? You know, a lot of people will say, yeah, there's the Yeti, but then we'll also forget that we have the Olmos, the the smaller orang pen deck, the, I don't know, there's just, there's a ton of them, ton of them all across the world. And to think that they What do you got there?

40:07 That I'm just saying why I said they look like Pacific Islanders. Oh. Polynesian. OK, but the, you know, to think that you're going to get the answer to what the closest ancestor is off of just, you know, the, the North American Bigfoot. I I think you're crazy, you know, anybody who thinks that way, you, you would have to take into consideration everything around the world and just kind of understand that, you know, we have, you know, many different builds and, and pigmentations to our species and you know, they probably will the same. And it's all going to come down from, you know, ancestral roots and, and hybridization from, you know, throughout time. So it's it's a very difficult question and I don't think we're, I mean, unless we can, we can get physical specimen, we may never know the fucking answer to it. Sorry it took a long round on that. You guys ready?

41:07 To roll, Yeah. Yeah, I suppose so. You suppose? So just kind of blew a hole like. I did. No, just the the finding out of the Gigantopithecus's feet just kind of blew the butt out of my kind of my theories. Well, I mean the the you know, the Gigantopithecus could only be half of the equation, right? Yeah. But I don't, I don't know if it's because you, you can't like we are too far removed even from chimpanzees or they say bonobos are like the best, like closest representation to us or whatever, you know, relative everything like that.

41:51 But you can't breed with them. Right. You know, we're totally different species and it doesn't work out. So I, I just don't know if it's possible to have Jake. Don't overthink it from Skater. I just don't know if it's possible to have a crossover like that. I, I think it is in baby steps, right? You know, when you go from a tiger to a lion and create a Liger, that's different, that's going to create an offspring that is sterile and and unable to breed. But there's closer relatives that they can breed with where eventually they could meet in the middle. And I mean, you have to have a long period of time for that to be able to happen, right?

42:37 You know, like they're like, let's take elephants, right? So there's the African and the Indian elephant. Are they breedable? I don't know, right. But let's just say, for example, this time they are. And this is just, you know, hypothetically those breed together, right? And that creates a species now that is closer breedable to another breed of elephant because that breed of elephant was closer, was breedable with the Indian elephant but not the African elephant, but because. The African. Elephant and the Indian elephant bred together. Now this hybrid is able to breed because it's got, you know, the you know.

43:22 But here's the other thing too, is it's like, but with the exception of some really, I guess, messed up things or like dumb animals. Like every once in a while, especially on Easter, you'll see some meme of like some rabbit humping a chicken. You're like, this is how an Easter egg is made, you know, things like that. Generally speaking, species the the females, the males, whichever 1's doing the attracting. Usually the males are the ones that are more colorful because they need to fight for the attention of the females. But regardless they attract the opposite sex of their same species. You don't see capuchin monkeys out there bangin, you know, orangutans or bangin baboons or what vice versa or things like that, you know, and creating hybrids all the time. They attract their opposite sex of their same species. The ancient astronaut theorists point to, like, you know, genetic manipulation at some point in history. Sure.

44:36 But because I mean, it would it would have to be that because otherwise it it just wouldn't make sense. Like a lion and a tiger wouldn't naturally mate unless you took the sperm of the tiger, the lion, whoever, and then the egg of the lion or tiger, you know, whatever, into a lab and then created a hybrid. They wouldn't naturally go after each other because they attract the opposite sex of their same species. So I don't see where there would be a situation where they would just be like, eh, you know, a hole's a hole and just go for it, you know? So here's the thing right is I I don't think that you can generalize a species like that because you will have individualism. I've met dogs that will literally fuck anything. Right like.

45:19 Well, that's what I said. There's there's, you know, obviously like the chicken, the rabbit thing, right? So I mean there's. Yeah, and. There's weird situations that happen, but you got you got to. Think. Happens multiple times. Somewhere down the road you get an outcasted, you know, primate, you know, somewhere down our evolutionary line. It's like, man, I'm not getting lucky with mine. I might as well go fuck this, this caveman. And you know, turns out it works right. So I and then he's just like, fuck that. I'll never have my women again. I like this caveman booty. So, so then they make little, little caveman loving babies and you know, now that that whole genetic line of that previous species is gone and now you just have caveman and hybrid babies.

46:16 I, I don't know, man. I, I think, I, I think you get some pretty crazy individuals within the animal Kingdom that will do some stupid shit. I do now. I, I agree with you. The majority of them though, the majority of them, you're right. What if I'm just going to speak to this from my perspective of what I actually believe? But what if the big feat and the Sasquatch Sam squamishes are just their own thing? That God created a land dwelling instead of a tree dwelling. A land dwelling ape that has feet like humans. It could be their own thing and just there's no fossil record of them because we don't have fossil records of most animals that have existed or do exist.

47:06 See, my big question is always just like, I understand why like the Smithsonian would want to hide the giants, right? I understand why they would want to hide the facts about space or whatever the case is, but I don't understand like why they would want to hide facts about Bigfoot so. Well, it could just be that there, like I just said there, it just isn't evidence. Like I don't know if we actually have like Penguin, you know, fossilized Penguins, but we have sure. So it's just like. What you'd think that we would have at least one specimen like in a in a museum or somewhere, or like it would least be accepted. If we don't have a specimen, we at least have like enough proof that it would be accepted, right. And I'm, and again, you guys know I'm not like necessarily the big skeptic of Bigfoot, but you know, she's posing the question.

48:03 I'm just saying like, I don't understand, bro. I. Hate you wearing today. It's a big. Yeah, right. How do you like Bigfoot? Fuck them. Yeah, I don't know, You know, when it comes to Smithsonian, I mean, they do a lot of weird stuff. I know, I know from previous, I don't know if they were episodes that we did or it was a talking point within the episode, but that, you know, sample hairs will get collected all the time and get sent into, you know, MIT and, and UCLA and, you know, big colleges that have really good labs in them for DNA analysis of known animals. And they'll come back inconclusive. And then they just don't do anything else with it. And I think that it's because I think with the exception of like the big, well, the big Bigfoot scientists that we have out there, most people don't want to touch what they consider to be nonsense or an urban legend, even if they might have some shred of proof that this is a new discovery. Because they'll get laughed out of, you know, whatever job they're in or they're, they'll get discredited because they don't believe in quote UN quote science they believe in. Yeah, I think that's the legend problem. I think that's the biggest problem with most of the of the sciences and you know, academic

49:40 whatnots, right? It's just all of this is all of them rely on so much funding and and you have to kind of toe certain lines to get the funding, right. So it's like you're not going to be able to dig in the in the tomb anymore if you don't get the funding. So you can't go talking about stuff that you shouldn't be talking about. You just got to kind of toe the line, right? I think that's what's kind of that's what we're seeing right now with the alien topic, is that for so long there's been proof and evidence of something else, right? I'm not going to say aliens, but something else, whether that's government funded programs or black budget programs or interdimensional beings or whatever it is. Ghosts, aliens, you know, demons, angels, things like that.

50:30 What something else is there? And you find these pilots and stuff that are now coming out when it becomes popular to talk about it, when the the masses are all about this sort of subject. And they're like, well, back in the 70s when I was a fighter pilot, I saw XY and Z, you know, UFOs and stuff like that. But they've kept it under wraps even as hardcore professionals because they're worried about losing their business, losing their credit, losing their friends, right? It's the socials, the peer pressure, all that sort of stuff. I think the same thing happens in the communities of, you know, the, the biologists and things like that and the, the wildlife researchers and everything because people aren't on board with the whole idea of a Bigfoot.

51:18 But here in 10 years when maybe we have a body and people are more interested in the Bigfoot topic, then you'll get these people that have been biologists for 50 years that are just like, oh, I studied hair samples that were inconclusive. Turns out they're from a Bigfoot. Imagine that, right? You're going to see all that stuff start happening because it's now the popular thing and they're not going to become the laughingstock of their friend group or you know, the laughingstock of the hospital and getting bullied about it. Oh, you find another Bigfoot. Oh, you know, that's your crap. So that's probably what it is. It's just the social peer pressure and we see that with all these, you know, pseudoscience type things and, and all like the, the crazy out there ideas and stuff like that.

52:07 People will generally keep to themselves to keep their stories to themselves if it means that they will not invoke ridicule from other people, you know, now take that into what may be a career ending thing where it's just like, oh, this guy is weird like that. I don't want him to, you know, reset my, I don't want him to do open heart surgery on me if he's a freaking weirdo, you know, type stuff, you know, in my shower. Yeah, right. It's like, OK, no, I'm good. You know, he's going to, I'm going to go out and he's going to be taking pictures of my feet and, you know, putting him up in his in his shrine, in his closet, right. It's like crap. So I think that it has to do a lot with that.

52:49 I don't know how much the Smithsonian actually has to do with it, but I'm sure they have something to do with it because they kind of have something to do with anything that has to do with, you know, the ancient. World or. Fossil record or whatever you know. Yeah, not a big fan. We got to cover that at some point, but you guys ready to move on? Yeah, yeah, all. Right, let's let's go P All right. The salvage yard monster. In the summer of 1988, Murfreesboro business owner Rob Riemann would have his life flipped upside down when he had one of the most polarizing encounters with the Murfreesboro monster. Rob Reiden was a local salvage yard owner for 13 years at this point in his life.

53:36 When he and his hired security guard officer Charlie Straub approached the source of sounds being made in the back of the lot, their plan was to come together for any confrontations due to safety in numbers and most of the break insurance at the salvage yard being vandals or thieves who would happily defend themselves with any weapon they had or confined. When they came closer to the source, a low pitch scream was set off coming from the direction of the noise. The scream continued and eventually tapered off and ending very high pitched. It was then that Bob was hit with a horrendous smell. Whatever it was, it reaped.

54:18 The men reluctantly stepped closer to the intruder but were little on edge from the loud screaming and horrible smell. But neither of those details scared them more than what they finally laid eyes on. The culprit? Standing 8 to 10 feet tall and covered in extremely long silver Gray hair, man like figure with red shiny eyes. The hair on its top half looked well groomed, In the bottom half half seamed, gross, knotted, shaggy, and tangled with twins and mud. When the beast noticed that it wasn't alone anymore, it pulled its 3 foot wide shoulders back and let out a yell while flashing its yellow teeth before walking off, grunting and letting out noises that Bob described as sounding as if they were numbling mumbling to itself. That was enough for Bob and Charlie, so they turned around and ran back to the garage where they thought they would be safe from whatever this behemoth was.

55:17 But as they got back, they were shocked to notice that the creature was following them. They watched him terror as it moved from shadow to shadow on the property. Every time it crossed into the moonlight it got a little closer. Worried that if they called the police the men would be ridiculed by everyone in town, they opted to call a few of Bob's family members instead. After a few minutes, Bob's mother Irma, wife Cheryl, brother Ronnie, sister Joyce and 15 year old son Bobby all across the front of the property to meet the two men in the garage. All the new people on the scene believe that this was a joke and Irma, Bob's mother, even made mention that if the men really believed what they saw, she might have to call the men in the white coats. But soon after arriving, Bob's wife Cheryl noticed the God awful smell and quickly connected it to the smell she encountered the previous night wafting in from the open window next to her bed in the bedroom.

56:13 Whatever was outside the previous night had taken a few large audible slurping gulps out of the dog's outdoor water bowl as Cheryl laid in bed, terrified to look out the window, only to come face to face with what she believed would be the burglar or thief when the smell hit everyone else. And they were only moments away from learning that Bob and Charlie were not joking around. Soon after the smell permeated the air and and around the garage, they started to hear something walking around just outside of the thin garage walls. Then whatever it was banged on the lower garage door and frightened the entire lot of them. A few seconds later, another bang hit the wall perpendicular to the garage door.

56:57 Then another louder bang erupted just a little further down, followed by yet another a little further down than that. This would continue a few more times, progressively getting louder and louder with every bang. It was Bob's thought that whatever it was, it was throwing large rocks at the wall of the garage, because if it was the same thing that Bob and Charlie had seen just a few minutes prior, he believed it could have easily busted through the thin walls if it wanted to. Once the bang stopped and after a lengthy 15 minute wait, all the witnesses ran into the cars and drove off back to the house. The very next morning, Bob would go back out into the daylight and search high and low for signs of whatever it was that scared the shit out of them and from the night before. Then they're in the moistened mud next to Missouri Pacific Railway tracks that ran through the back of property. Bob found a 14 inch long and four inch wide human shaped footprint.

57:58 All right, guys. So this is that second most popular 14 inches long and four. Inches wide. Human footprint. Very wide. Human shaped footprint. It's not that big, right? No, it's not that big. It's doable, but. Personally walking around. But to be walking around barefoot in a in a junkyard, you know that's. AI mean Jeff went barefoot for like 10 years. That's true. It was a year. It was one year and I don't have that big a feet. Well, you're the same person. You know what they say about not having big feet? If you're somebody who hangs out in a junkyard with no shoes on you, I I picture like a big dude. Like just big fucking.

58:44 Yeah. Walking around barefoot. I don't even need shoes because they don't they don't make them that fit 14 inches. So now that we we're back on the subject of feet, I, I wanted to kind of shed some insight into my thought process real quick without derailing us too hard. So I was looking it up while you're reading that Skeeter cracked a joke. He said Bigfoot was God's test run before humans because I mentioned the, the ground dwelling in the feet and all that sort of stuff. OK, so so moose, deer, elk and Caribou all belong to the same species group called cervids or cervidae or whatever it is. But cervids for short, right say.

59:25 They're called ungulates, aren't they? I'm looking at Safari club International, it says service is the deer family. Ungulates. Cervidae and then it goes into like different sub orders like Ruminati is chud chud or cud chewing plant eaters either way. So ungulates or Cervidae, however, they have similar feet, right? They have the split hooves and things like that. Moose and white tailed deer are in the same major order species with the same looking feet, yet they cannot mate together. So it says it says moose and elk belong to different subfamilies of deer and have different numbers of chromosomes. Elk have 68 chromosomes, while deer. Have the including white tailed deer, mule deer, and black tailed deer have 70 chromosomes.

1:00:21 So they may have the same size, same type of feet. Obviously they're different in size, but they cannot interbreed even if they're from the same speed or subspecies or or species, major species or whatever, right? So we might be in the same species being primates as great apes or even Bigfoot for that matter, but just because our feet might look the same as big feet with the exception of the mid tarsal break, we would not be able to interbreed. So I'm. Telling you what I can't do. Well, you could try. So I think that where my, my thought process is, is that I, Jeremy, you asked me one time why whales look like they have human hands inside their flippers. And I said, if you got a good design, why reinvent it every single time, right?

1:01:14 Like we make a new type of car. We're not going to, we're not going to make a hexagon wheel for the car. We're going to keep the same wheels because wheels work. And we're going to just build different chassis in a different frame on top of the, the standard base. So that's why you see these sort of species where in my mind, God create or my belief God created all the animals. And you'll see some animals that are completely separate, but they have the same base, right? And that's because if it works for that type of thing, then why completely change every single time? Why not have something similar? So in this circumstance though, every other ape or monkey you may see has a hand for a foot right Where they can grab stuff with their feet. Why couldn't it also be that?

1:02:04 Let's just say that whatever the the other Denovans, I think you said. Denisovans. Denisovans and big feet. So sasquatches and humans have the same looking feet because it works right? It works for an upright walking, ground dwelling primates. But we are in different species and we can't interbreed and things like that because it works for US versus, you know, bears who have a certain foot shape because they spend most of time on all fours, but sometimes go on to twos, right type stuff. They wouldn't have a different foot shape, although their feet do kind of sort of look like ours, but not entirely right.

1:02:52 So it's like if they're going to do this sort of stuff, then it this helps them in that manner. So that's just kind of my thought process of it. It would it would reason to me that a Sasquatch would be its own species. And maybe we just don't have a fossil record for it because of whatever reason. Just another type of ape right here, you know? So there there is exceptions. OK? And the exception for the human beings would have been the Neanderthal and the Denisovans, yes, according to current scientific understanding, a modern human and a Neanderthal could breed, as evidenced by genetic analysis showing that modern humans outside of Africa carry a small amount of Neanderthal DNA indicating interbreeding between the two species when they overlapped geographically in the past. So.

1:03:47 I think my question would be, what's the DNA strand that they're finding? And then they're just deciding this is Neanderthal DNA because you can't get DNA from rocks, which is what these fossilized bones are, is that they're rocks, they're calcified bones, so they can't get DNA from that. So what are they looking at in the gene? You can totally. Get. You can get DNA from fossils. You can absolutely get DNA from fossils. Yeah, absolutely. How so? Because it's organic matter. It's just, it's not. When it's been calcified. You have a calcification is the hardening of a material. It doesn't matter what the the material is, it's the hardening of a material. So even though it's calcified meat or bone, it's still meat or bone.

1:04:36 Let's see, I'm looking this up. Calcification is a process where calcium builds up in body tissue causing them to harden. It can happen normally like in the formation of bones or abnormally in soft tissue. Like you have calcification happening in your in your body now I think that's where you get like arthritis and shit. I could be wrong with that obviously, but it. Says under the right conditions, DNA can persist inside of fossilized bones for thousands of years. Yes. So here they begin to extract the DNA from a 38,000 year old Neanderthal bone. This process called an essay assay ASSAY Yep, as a test to see if there's any usual DNA inside a Neanderthal femur. Yep.

1:05:21 So, OK, so they can get DNA. So then they're trying to find those same genetic or DNA and I don't know what the terminology is, strands I guess, inside of human beings. Yeah. So assay values. So like when I work with the vitamin E that I that I do at or I work with at my job, we have to do assay values. Assay values is a quantity of of a specific element or compound, right. So vitamin E is a compound of multiple elements together. So we need to do assay values on the vitamin E to make sure that we're getting good quality stuff. So assay values would be a way for them to measure the DNA strands or the proteins used in DNA to ensure that they have a good amount or enough of the the protein strands in order to run adna test or whatever else they would have to do. You know, we need, we need an admonish button like like louder with Crowder be like when they whenever they make a mistake and they get fact checked by their by their crew, they say, well, admonish me and they press a button, it says admonished. Have an admonished button.

1:06:47 I don't know what admonish means it it means to well, it means to warn or reprimand someone firmly for being wrong in this circumstance. OK, so you have to admonish me. So you all have to. I have to strip naked and walk through the town while you guys yell shame and beat me with rocks and sticks and stuff. Skeeter Gotcha. Skeeter, you're admonished. Admonished. Ready to move on? Yeah. Do you guys still want me to go through sightings or you want me to skip to the last part because we have one more group of sightings and then we dive into just a small section to finish it off. The sightings are modern day sightings. We could go through the whole thing, it's not that much more. OK, I, I know we're running late now, so I just wanted to I, Jeff looks like he's so tuckered out right now. Look at him.

1:07:39 Boy tuckered. He looks like he's about ready to wrap up in his blankie. Bust your ass all day today. I'm sorry guys, I'm here. He got his ass busted all day today. All right, modern sightings. Although the bulk of primary sightings and encounter with the Bigfoot esque critter that stalks the counties of Little Egypt seem to have peaked in the 1970s, there have been plenty of run insurance with the beast in modern times as well. To ensure that I didn't end up turning this into an 8 hour episode, I've limited these accounts to the best ones I can find on various reporting sites, as well as only reporting the sightings in Jackson County, the home county of Murfreesboro.

1:08:23 Disclaimer. Turns out that all of the studies that I did find were then repeated by the BFRO, so I just used the BFRO as the source. So ignore that whole other sources thing. Although I did originally find some of these reports on other sources. So report number 44003 bfro.net Spring 1989 In a report filed on January 26th, 2014, a witness described their encounter with a Bigfoot creature on the A 41 pond in the spring of 1989. While fishing in an area that was 4 to 5 miles away from the nearest road and a location of where they parked their car, the witness started hearing a commotion breaking out behind them.

1:09:09 The initial thought of the witness was that it could have been a variety of critters from the area such as turkeys, squirrels or even deer. But then whatever it was, it started snapping whole trees behind where they were standing. Then two large splashes caused by big rocks being thrown in the water erupted. As the witness turned around they caught themselves staring at a pissed off bipedal hair covered creature that let out a blood curdling scream. The the report quotes the witness as describing this moment as quote. It starts out as a high pitched siren type scream that makes every hair on your body stand up. Then it gets higher pitched and as and is so loud you can't believe what is happening.

1:09:53 With one step this thing could have reached out, twisted my head right off my shoulders. I knew I could not outrun it so I just froze. I cannot believe what was happening or what I was seeing. The description mentioned by the witness and report investigator had the creature as having a 5 foot wide chest from shoulder to shoulder, stood at least 7 feet tall, and the creature had a noticeable muscular build. The witness eventually escaped, running as fast as he could while only taking minimal gear after the creature walked off after it screened. Reports number 39267 and three 63o6bfro.net, March 2012. In this report, the witness outlines a sighting that they had where they saw not one, but two of these creatures as the witness crossed the railroad tracks, one of which was sitting down as the other stood above it. This is the witness's second sighting of a similar kind in the same location from almost exactly a year prior. Report 50208.

1:10:56 Bfro.net November 2015 In a report submitted to the Bigfoot Researchers Organization, an afternoon bus driver on US 51 N of DeSoto was quoted Quote While driving my work van and just as I was coming over the top of the hill, a small dark figure passed in the tree line. It was walking too tall for a human. It was maybe in the seven to 8 foot range because it was at the midpoint of the trees. There isn't a rise there. It's flat. I checked because I drive this way five days a week, twice a day. I watched it walk for several seconds until it disappeared into the thicker tree growth. The driver's bus aide also mentioned in the report to have witnessed this creature, as well as a BFRO investigator Stan Courtney mentions that they witnessed the animal for at least an entire minute. The witnesses described the color of the creature as being blackish brown, with its build being on the thinner side, but with a really thick neck.

1:11:54 Unfortunately, neither witness was able to get a good view of the creature's face. All right, second to last section done. Nothing. I believe. OK, good. You guys want me to jump right into the last bit? Yeah, dude. All right, Jeffrey, you have to answer. Just kidding. You don't have to answer here. I know your answer. Modern day Murfreesboro Monster. The locals still love their Big Muddy Monster with a brew house right in Murfreesboro named Big Muddy Brewing. Their bottles depict the image of a Bigfoot on a few of their beers to pay homage to their local urban legend. The staple beer of the brew house is the Big Muddy Monster India Brown Ale which also depicts a Bigfoot on the cover with a bundle of hops in one hand and a cold draft pint in the other.

1:12:45 Every October Murfreesboro holds their annual Big Muddy Monster Brew Fest right next to the boat landing in Riverside Park that has become famous as location of one of the most talked about encounter stories by Randy Needham and Judy Johnson in June of 1973. The festival is a convergence of microbreweries from around the Midwest and as a patron of the festival you can expect to do plenty of beer tasting, souvenir shopping and hear plenty of live music all under the umbrella of the famous legend of the area. Although historically the festival has been in October according to their website bigmuddymonsterfestival.com, the 2024 annual festival took place on June 22nd and highlighted another local business with the monsters namesake, Muddy Monster Comics, also from Murfreesboro, which publishes a conic titled Big Muddy Monster, a true story of Murfreesboro, which as the title says, finds a fun way to deliver the story of the monster to a younger or more pop culture eccentric crowd. Then of course there is the local Big Muddy Run which takes place in a local MUD course with proceeds going to local charities as well as the Big Muddy Monster 5K Run and walk around town.

1:14:02 You can find many pieces of art dawning the image of Big Muddy such as the mural on the side of the Liberty Theater, a Bigfoot statue in the local Holiday Inn Express and suites that was chainsaw carved by artist Josh Hayes of the Big Muddy Monster Carving Company. The official Big Muddy Monster statue at the local McDonald's, as well as the official Welcome to Murfreesboro welcome sign which also depicts a Bigfoot creature walking out of the capital M at the beginning of the town's name. And of course, last but not least, make sure before you leave you find and take a picture next to the sign for Muddy Monster Rd.

1:14:42 All right, what you guys say, you guys want to go check that out? I do I. For sure do Jeremy wants us to take a road trip next time they have it. Let's. Go, dude, let's go to that other place where they're having that festival, bro. There's so many of them bro. Which one you talking about bro? The one we're at the boat ramp, dude. That's the that's the one we were just talking about. Bro it's the same one. It's a it's a brew fest, so it's the Big Muddy Brew Festival. So not only is it about Big Muddy, but it's also about Big Muddy Brew, about some burrs. Let's go. Yeah, bro, let's go. I I, I really would like to go.

1:15:24 Like I'm seriously going to make a push for it next year. I think it'd be an absolute ton of fun. Oh. Yeah, brother. I'd go as a patron, though I wouldn't go as infinite rabbit hole. I'll just maybe I wear a T-shirt, but, well, that's. Just lame dude. Dude, I would go just to just to absorb it all. But yeah, Bigfoot and beer, that's what I'm fucking talking about. It's like my two favorite things. Yeah, you'd probably just end up all nutted out by the end of the day. I'm empty. All right, anything that you guys like to add? I know we're, we're running a bit late here and we're kind of rushing the end of this, but I'm I'm also getting tired so I'm down. So far, I think it's real. It's just weird that there's no actual like footprints that actually look like anything.

1:16:10 I know that's, well, I know that's what the BFRO is all about, right? It's the BFRO. If people don't know, they don't just put any siding on their website. Like they will send investigators out to look at the area, look for clues, look for hair and tree breaks and limb brakes and all that sort of stuff. They'll look for footprints and stuff like that. They only put stuff on their website that they've actually investigated and have determined that there's a, that it's possible or highly credible. What am I trying to say? Highly credible, Highly possible that there was in fact a Bigfoot siding or an incident in this location. So when it comes to the BFRO, like that's, that's their whole shtick is that they're not just going to take any Joe Schmo's thing and say, oh, another sighting in California or another sighting in, you know, Arkansas or whatever it is. They'll literally go and investigate it. So real, real quick there, there are prints better than the one that was from that specific police report that we talked about earlier.

1:17:21 This one is owned by a Jessica Van Pelt. This is in his in Chad Lewis's book. You can see there, there's actually multiple pictures of it and you have Chad Lewis and and Kevin Lee Nelson standing with it right there. I can't see anything I don't. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to get it clear for you, man. I'm sorry. It's kind. Of I mean, it's clear, but I just can't see it. And like, I don't, I don't see the Oh, OK, I see that one. Oh, that one is that one photo. Shop dude. No, it's not very deep though. No, no. But I mean, it could have been on hard ground too, but. Could have been OK.

1:18:04 So admonish me again, Skeeter, you better admonish me. So yeah, I know that number of sightings going that far back and everything. I mean, it's got to be something. I think so. I I think big buddy, excuse me, sorry. Oh, fucking Jeff. Yeah, I said it. I think big one is got a good good possibility of being being I. Actually heard something really interesting. Let's see if I can try to quote it. So I was listening to Joe Rogan podcast today while I was doing some yard work and they were talking about he and his guest, we're talking about aliens, right? And he brought up some of the topics that we've covered as far as aliens, but that due to the early time frame of some of these, some of these sightings that it's not like today where today there's so much information about aliens and movies and TV shows and comics and things like that. And the same thing with Bigfoot.

1:19:27 There's so many shows, there's so many movies, there's so many this, that and the other that you could dream something and believe that you had an alien encounter. Or in this circumstance, you had a Bigfoot encounter because it was a really vivid dream that your brain just inserted that sort of that sort of content into your brain. Or your brain inserted that sort of content into your dream that you could come out of your sleep and believe that you had a Bigfoot encounter because your dream was so vivid and you you remember it so well, right? You could trick your brain to think of that. But back in the day, back in the 30s, forties, 50s and stuff like that, this sort of stuff was so out there that you really couldn't.

1:20:17 You couldn't bet that that people are just like, you know, dreaming about aliens and the reporting they've had an alien experience or UFO experience or whatever it is. In the same way you couldn't, you know, have a Daydream or a sleep dream about Bigfoot and say, oh, yeah, you know, I had a Bigfoot experience. So it's more likely that those older encounters, especially when they're so similar to other encounters, are actually there. There is some validity to them and I like that. I guess in this circumstance there's a history of sightings that not everyone was going around and talking to each other, or maybe they were, you know, but that there's probably some validity into the sightings unless, gosh, I don't know, I'd have to scroll all the way back through our your report that you did.

1:21:14 When was the first sighting for the 70s? Nineteen, 1915 in Creole Springs, Illinois? Actually I think it was in 1800s was the earliest of something in the area. You got 1928291941. The Centerville something The Centerville something is what it what something was called in the in the area of Centerville in the 1880s. And was it reported right away? I don't know. I don't know much about that. You can't really get a lot of sources for that far back. Still 1880s and the next sighting is 35 years later in Creole Springs, Illinois. That's just the the the next documented sighting. Wow, it's a government.

1:22:05 Chimera bro. So it's. Probably Chimera. It always has, but you know that meme where it's like, well. No, I'm not. I'm not saying it's not a chimera, but I am saying that. And he's like it always has been, yeah. That's probably more real because I don't know how much contact people would have from Creole Springs, Illinois in 1915 and then thirteen years later and 14 years later in Carbondale, IL, and then just a little bit after that in 1941. So 10 years later in Culp, Illinois and then 1942 in Duke Coin, Illinois maybe? You're thinking it again bro.

1:22:49 And then Murfreesboro, I think that I think that there's definitely validity to these these sightings because it's not like something you could just see on Facebook and then just be like, yeah, I saw that too. It was white and 78 feet tall. And, you know, whatever, right? This would be like, you'd have to know these people in this location, or at the very least, you'd have to be. You'd have to have been like this. This person in Carbondale, IL, would have had to have been in Creole Springs, Illinois, at the same time to read the local newspaper to see what the local report was like. That's what my brains telling me. So when I look at this, I'm like, that's real. You know what I'm saying?

1:23:32 Because there's no social media, There's no Internet, There's no nothing like that. Literally the only way you'd find out about this is if you visit the area and read it in historical newspaper records, which is not really something that people do. Yeah, especially for small towns, or you would have to have been there to see the headline on the local newspaper or you had your own sighting. So yeah, it's real. It's real, it's real. Jeff, give us your two and a half second breakdown go. I mean, yeah, I I agree that something's definitely going on. For sure. Like Jake said, it's real. Is it a Bigfoot? Who knows, bro, right? Could be a Bigfoot, could be some hoaxes, could be chimera.

1:24:17 I don't know. He's so tired. Look at him. He's all tuckered out. I'm exhausted. All right, Well, Bigfoot adjacent. Thank you. That's the that's what I was looking for. Bigfoot adjacent. He does like the word adjacent he does. All right. Well, that has been another live episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. We'll see you next Sunday. We should be doing La Yarona with special guest Hor George, not Hor Jorge. Hey, it's just George George and go ahead and Mark on your calendar. It looks like December 8th. We will be recording our 200th episode, The Stoned Ape Theory, which is already been wrapped up. Research is done, editing is done. It is, it is going to be fun.

1:25:15 I, you know what I could do. You know what I could do? Jeff, hang tight a second. Dude that freaking picture you sent in the chat, if anyone's a a hybrid between Bigfoot and people, what the even that? Isn't that funny? I thought that was. Funny, I wish I had a neckbeard so I could replicate this. This is so gross, I love it. So it's like a reverse chin strap I'm working out. Mine right now to look at someone and have an honest conversation with them if they like Jeff.

1:25:55 Did it die? Looking at the, It's like when it's like when I was younger and I had really bad acne, people like look at my acne instead of my eyes when they're talking to me. I would just be looking at this guy's. I would be looking. I would just chin the entire conversation. I just not hear anything he freaking said. That's hilarious. Kenzo, what do you think? Did Jeff do this? Oh my gosh. But I want to give a sneak peek to all of the people who stuck with us today in the live. I want to show you guys the teaser for episode 200. Skeeter says nice 200 episodes and 3000 more to go. Skeeter's given us a time frame of 3200 episodes and then we're dead.

1:26:53 That's it, That's it. I'll take it. We're never going to get as big as Rogan. I'll tell you. 3200 And then we all die in a horrible crash. Jeff, just so you know, we're purposely holding out just on you. There you go, everybody. There is the cover of episode 200, The Stoned Ape Theory. I will do my best to remember to delete this from the the episode that goes live so that there's something for all of the travelers who hang tight for live episodes. You better not fuck this one up, Jeremy. Oh bro, this is this one's sick. Dude it. Is let me tell you bro, I I lived this bro, OK?

1:27:35 By all means, man, if you. Want to bring your own research? I am the stone day brother. I lived this OK, I I've. Went without shoes for 15. Years I've eaten the mushrooms while listening to Terence McKenna in the dark talk about this shit. Too bad. Too bad Terence McKenna passed away. Like his brother's alive and he's. He's been talking about all of his stuff. Yeah. Yeah, Dennis Mckenna's a legend too, man. We should try, we should try to get Dennis on. That would be epic. That would be that would probably be bigger for me than like Tommy Chong. Yeah, for sure.

1:28:16 Yeah, for sure. All right, I'll try. For me personally. I'll try it just for you. I I tried to get David icon for you, but I don't think they're enough. Bigger than both of those two combined. You heard it here, Kenzer says. Heck yeah. That looks great, Jeff. You got to shave your mustache and your beard to look like that. That. That's what you said. All right, guys, that has been another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. Until next time, we'll see you. Or actually for those of you that are live, we'll see you tomorrow. But for everybody else, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit Hole. Bye, everybody. Hey everybody, thanks for checking out the Infinite Rabbit Hole Podcast.

1:29:01 If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Goodbye.