211. Wisconsin CAPS w/ Barnaby Jones

0:38 Welcome back to the Infinite Rabbit Hole. I'm your host Jeremy, and today for like the 4th or 5th week in a row, I've lost count. Now we have a guest. This is the new Infinite Rabbit where we don't highlight our voices but we make you listen to us first. I'm Jeremy, I'm your host yet again and I am joined by my Co host Jake and pissed off jackalope face Jeff. That's right there. There's an inside joke there. Maybe I'll show you guys later, Maybe I won't. I don't know. We'll see.

1:20 Pissed off. Jeffrey, how are you doing? Well, I'm not pissed off. Look at you all mad. Not mad. I'm chilling. Pretty good. How angry you are. So angry. Hanging out. Went fishing today. You know, medicated myself in various ways. I'm good. Chilling. I got some horchata tea here, pretty good asking about chemtrails. Gotcha. Horchata is the bee's boobs did. I did I ever did I ever show you my my Bigfoot coffee mugs? That's. Cool, I. Like that? How cool is that? Come on. Man, pretty. Cool, right, Bigfoot. I mean that's that's the derpiest Bigfoot I've ever seen, but show me.

2:07 Show me the mug that I got you. Which one? The Bigfoot mug. There you go, Chantelle. It's in there. I don't know which one you got. Me. It's the one that's actual foot. Oh, the foot one, it's the foot. Look at them. Look at that. It's look at that foot. Look at that foot I saw. If I saw that print in the wild, it'd be like that's a Bigfoot. All right, Jake, how you doing, bud? I'm doing well, did a lot of stuff today. I went our way to go pick up a fuel oil tanks so I could turn it into a an evaporator and an evaporator. There you go for syrup season because we have entered it where the nights are below freezing and the days are above freezing. So I'm going to be tapping some trees tomorrow and welding up this evaporator, and it should be much bigger than the one I had.

3:09 I mean, it is much bigger than the one I had last year. But yeah, so I am, I'm pretty stoked and I might go fishing for a little bit. But yeah, remains to be seen. It depends on how busy I am. But yeah, doing good. Been fighting with vegans. So that's been cool. And here I am. Nice. Before we move on to our guest, I want to say thank you to Tokosis for the follow. Very much, very much appreciated. I think we're only like 5 followers away from being able to. What's that? What's that that mark we're trying to hit? Affiliate. Affiliate. Affiliate. Yeah. We're pretty close to that. So big stuff there. Thank you very much. Thank you. Share the show with your friends so we can break it tonight. There you go.

3:52 Thanks, Toe cozies. All right, without further ado, let's introduce our guests for the night. Barnaby Jones is a prominent cryptozoologist and paranormal researcher based in Wisconsin, known for founding the Cryptids, Anomalies and Paranormal Society, better known as CAPS, and hosting shows like Monsters on the Edge and The Paranormal Spectrum, which I was a guest on by the way, on the Untold Radio Network. His expertise has been showcased in various media outlets, including American Paranormal Magazine and My Haunted Hometown on T&E Network, along with numerous podcasts. Jones and his team primarily investigate Wisconsin but have also ventured across the United States, exploring a wide range of locations.

4:41 Locations such as haunted sites and remote forests to uncover elusive creatures and spirits. Barnaby Jones, welcome to the infinite rabbit hole. Is a blast to be here man. Glad to be here tonight. It's it's, it's been a while since we talked, man. I think we talked shoot, I think it was right before UFO days last year. So it's been about about nine months, eight or nine months, right, Something like. That. Yeah, no, it's we actually shoot, I think it was when we set up at UFO Days. The very first day was a very, was a pretty slow day. It was everyone was kind of just getting ready and then they did that, that Frisbee toss.

5:28 But we had one person that came up and said that they they listened to your show and saw me on the show. Nice. So that was pretty cool. Yeah, Man, that's awesome. Instant payoff, so thanks. Very cool, very cool. Glad to hear it. So how did you get started in all this? How did how did Barnaby Jones get into the world of cryptids, anomalies, and paranormal? I, I've always been interested in it my whole life. I never realized that Bigfoot was, you know, was all over the US like it is. I was very, you know, I, I, I, I focused more on the paranormal because I knew that that was everywhere.

6:10 But I, my love was cryptids. I don't, you know, I don't travel around the world and stuff. So I never thought that I'd get involved in it as much as I have. But the more I've dug into it, the more I realized that this stuff is all around us. Every state has cryptids from, you know, Wisconsin right here we have the dog man and Bigfoot. We have, according to Chad Lewis, over 50 some lakes in the state of Wisconsin that have lake monsters in them. And of course, we have the random visits from the lake MI Mothman creature. So whatever that happens to be. So we have quite a wide variety of weird creatures here in Wisconsin. And I had my first experience down in Burlington, WI.

6:56 And we went down there because it's this Nexus of all kinds of weird, crazy phenomenon from UFOs to paranormal to Bigfoot. And so we decided to go down there one night when I had nothing better to do with my paranormal researcher friend and we had our first Bigfoot encounter where this thing kind of came through the woods towards our where the parking lot where we were parked in. And as I shine my light along the Ridge, it popped back from the tree line. It had been like leaning down this branch looking out at us I believe. And as soon as I hit it with the light it ducked back in. A week later we went back down there with a bunch of people and ended up finding footprints.

7:39 We got growled at, we heard whistles, we had a whole bunch of Bigfoot type activity there and we spent the next couple months going down there almost every weekend researching and it's it's snowballed into what you see now. We traveled all over the United States. I speak at conventions all over the USI do library presentations, I host the two podcasts and we've been to some very weird places and seen a lot of weird things. So we're we're open to whatever you want to talk about tonight. Man, that's awesome. That's, that's wild stuff, man. So how did, how did you get a convention going? So you have you have your own event, right?

8:21 Yeah, so we started in in before I started caps I we went up to the heightened Adventure, which is this 80 acre private property in Upper Michigan that was featured on Finding Bigfoot. After a series of three-game camera photos were captured on the property in the middle, one may contain what some believe is a Bigfoot. And ever since it aired on Finding Bigfoot, people want to see the property and see the evidence. So Craig Salk and his wife, Barb Salk, opened up the property as like a touristy location for people to come see the evidence and hear the stories. And in 2019, myself and my mom went up there and met Craig and Barb and got to tour the property.

9:01 And this is when I realized that, you know, these creatures are in Wisconsin, they're in upper Michigan. There's Bigfoot all over the United States. So that led me down to researching Linda Godfrey, the Beast of Bray Rd., Mary Sutherland, and eventually Mary, Linda Godfrey, Mary Sutherland, which led me to Burlington Woods and the the whole thing down there. So in 2020, we got the opportunity to go up and research at the heightened adventure on that property. And we got to spend like every weekend up there with Craig and Barb and, you know, just dig into this whole phenomenon. Well, in October of 2020, Craig was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and he ended up passing away the following April.

9:46 And they had been running this convention up there for three years at that time before COVID hit and they had to take a break off. Well, then the following year, Craig passed away. So they ended up taking another year off from this convention and they weren't sure if they wanted to run a convention or not. And so my team stepped up and we said, well, we'll help you run this. So we, we picked up the reins and start helping run the Marinette Menominee Bigfoot Paranormal Convention. Well, we did that for three years. And this thing just absolutely outgrew Marinette Menominee and they want to keep their convention local. And we still want to do this big event because we we were incorporating everything from Bigfoot hikes to paranormal investigations and all this other stuff. But they want to keep it local.

10:34 So we kind of branched off. And it just so happened that this past year was also the last year of MI Paracon in Upper Michigan. So now you have this huge gap for conventions in our area. You know, the, the largest one in our area, MI Paracon pretty much closed up. So now there's this lack of any major event here. So we thought, OK, well, we're going to start out with this smaller event, which is the Wisconsin Cryptids Anomalies and Paranormal Convention in Appleton. It's coming up here May 9th through the 11th. And we kind of thought, you know, well, we gave it a brand new name, We gave it a brand new location.

11:14 And you know, it's, it's going to take it a year to to roll. And we've been absolutely floored by the amount of people interested in this, that we have limited tickets available for this event because we just don't have seating for everyone. With the NFL draft in the end of April in Green Bay, WI, all the venues are booked out a month either side of that in this area for just all the, the people coming into town for the event, all the everything that's going on, the setup and then the tear down. So we were very limited as to where we could hold this event. So we, we picked one of the only locations that we could actually get to and that's, that's how we got this started. So we're hoping to to build it and make it bigger and better every year.

12:00 But this is this is going to be our first one. So we also have virtual tickets for anybody that can't make it out in person. You can actually live stream all of our speakers and even we're premiering our brand new documentary at this event as well, which is the Hairy Man of Dairyland, Wisconsin State. And it's focusing on showcasing just everything about Bigfoot in Wisconsin from the evidence, the witnesses and the people that are out there searching for this creature. So you get all aspects of this, including like some of the family life of the people involved. There's reenactments of some of the the sightings and stuff. So it's this whole encompassing documentary that we're premiering and with the the virtual ticket, you'll also get a chance to watch that.

12:45 You'll get a link for that as well. So. And that's awesome. So you said that you got into this because you realize the Bigfoot was everywhere. This seems weird to me. I mean, have you ever had, like, a Bigfoot experience? Because some people will say, you know, Bigfoot is everywhere and stuff like that. And they're just like, OK, you know, a bunch of crazies all over the place, right? Like, Jeremy has his own experience. I have my own experience, can you share with us your experience if you have one? He just, he just told us about one. Yeah. I'm sorry. I told you I had the my first experience was down in Burlington, WI where we had the one that I believe was peeking out of the woods and holding the branch down. I hit it with light.

13:32 It ducked back in. That was my first encounter with what I believe would be a Bigfoot. After that we went back down there and we actually found the footprints in that area. We had a huge branch ripped off a tree. We got two of these creatures on thermal image that night. We were growled at. We had all kinds of experiences there. My next set of experiences was up in Rhinelander, WI when we were following up on some encounters there. There was a series of howls recorded in March of 2020 and we were there investigating. We actually found a couple old there was one trackway that led along this side of a path that the original witnesses had documented one of the footprints. They took a cast of it and we were actually able to find a few more of the prints in this series as well. And then we also found some possibly melted out footprints over in the snow in the Humboldt Wildlife Area across the river from where the witnesses were.

14:30 And in the course of researching there, we were doing a night stakeout and we had three of these creatures come down on the opposite shore of the Pelican River there and throw rocks across the river at us. And I got one of those on Thermal on the opposite shore as well, where you can actually see its arm go backwards forwards and then you hear the splash. So we got that on camera. That was the the day pretty much when I realized that this is legitimate. You know, like you, you said, you know, like footprints are one thing, you know, I don't know what that is, you know, and some of this other anecdotal evidence and stuff. But when you have these creatures throwing rocks, we determined they're about the size of our fist based on how loud the splashes were, how big the rocks were hitting the water. So anything smaller would make a smaller splash, etcetera. And we kind of figured that out.

15:24 They were also getting these rocks over halfway across the river towards US. One of the original witnesses was over 6 feet tall and he was lobbing these rocks as hard as he could and he couldn't even get them halfway across the river, right. This thing is throwing massive rock. They're. Trebucheting those things, yeah. So then the next day we went over there in the morning on the other side of the river and we actually found three distinct sized footprints on that shore, okay. So that's cool, yeah. Fuck, that's cool. It's funny because when Jeremy and I started this podcast, he had told me his Bigfoot experience and he he will tell everyone that I told him he was full of crap. It's true or full of shit.

16:08 And I don't recall ever saying that, but it sounds like something I'd say maybe. But gosh, must been four years ago now. 5 five years now. Five years ago now, I I went camping with my my brother and all of his friends up in Dinky Creek, California, which. Oh, Dinky Creek would have been four. Yeah, sorry. At at the time the California wildfires had burned everything up to Dinky Creek and Shaver Lake and above and it was, it was pretty bad. So like when we were out plank shooting with my 3030, we had a massive buck come rolling up on us because he hadn't had any hunting pressure for years because there was COVID. So they shut down all of the National Park sort of stuff. And then there was the wildfires and then the wildfires and then the Cove and the wildfires and just he just walked up on us like, oh, hey, guys, what's up?

17:06 I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's, you know, that's a 10 by 10. It's huge, you know, type stuff. But he just rolled out. But while we were there, it was, it wasn't like, you know, a campsite sort of setup. It was where you can fit, you get that spot and the next person gets the next spot wherever it's flat or wherever you could, you know, put a campsite. And so we had this one spot, it was overlooking a really nice valley. And we saw, or at least one of the guys saw a Mountain Lion howling at one point. And he's like, gosh, I hope it doesn't come over here, right? Because it's all yowling out there in the in the, in the brush.

17:47 But the first night, everyone there had some sort of like, yeah, I guess Bigfoot could be real type stuff. And I had been on this podcast for a couple years. I was like, I'll tell you what, I'll pull up my, you know, 3030 and blow a hole through its chest type stuff, right? But we had another party that was probably half a mile from us up the hill. And they, oh, my gosh, you could hear him clear as day, hooting and hollering. You could see the light from the bonfire. They're drunk as a skunk. They're screaming, and they're all the sort of stuff. And we hear this guttural yell that's unlike anything I've ever heard in my life.

18:28 And everyone shuts up. They shut up, we shut up. I can't even breathe. And it's like through the woods and stuff like that. We hear all the tree knockings, you know, 1-2 threes over here, 1-2 threes over there. And I'm like, I swear I went 20 minutes without breathing. All this game. I talk, I'm just like, yeah, I'll do whatever. And I'm just like, I'm gonna die right now, right? And then the next day, because it was in Northern California, it's super dry. You know, all the all the trees, It's pretty much just a tinderbox waiting go up. But we had a lot of kids there because all my brother, he's older, he's in his 40s and all of his friends are in their 40s. And so they got a bunch of kids and stuff. So they're all kicking up all this dirt in the middle of the campsite.

19:17 But behind my tent, I found like a 16 inch footprint, like a bare footprint. And I sent a picture when we got down into into cell phone signal into into Shaver Lake. I sent Jeremy a picture and I was like, this is crazy. It was right behind my tent. It was deep impression inside the pine needles in the dirt and I was like, I don't know where it goes from there because it goes into rocks and then behind that it's all where the kids are kicking up all the dirt and it's all a bunch of little kid footprints, right. So it was it was, it was interesting enough. And Jeremy got me a a plastic bucket, which I still have. So he's like, the next time you go camping, you see some weird, you know, make a cast of it until years later.

20:04 I was actually, you know, Jeremy was always. Already living here in Wisconsin, I was getting out of the Navy last year actually. And I was driving cross country and when I was going through Oklahoma, I'm going, it's two lanes of traffic. There's a, it's just, you know, going this way and then there's a barrier and then everyone's going this way. But we're, we're going 2 lanes of traffic. It's me and a bunch of semi trucks. I'm pulling a 24 foot, you know, trailer wife got there earlier. She I bought the house, she got in it. You know, all the necessities, everything. I'm just, you know, finishing up my time up in the Navy. But I'm going through Oklahoma and you know, it's beautiful, like all the places I went through from California to Wisconsin, just gorgeous, right.

20:49 I pretty much went on the 66 or yeah, Route 66, which is the 40 now I think all the way through and then got right up underneath Wisconsin and went straight up. And so I'm, I'm going through all this land, I'm looking and stuff like that. And I see this thing in this cow pasture that is hauling ass and it's big and it's just like an Olympic sprinter just hauling and it's huge. And I'm, I'm like looking and they're semi trucks that are merging, getting in all these, all these different ways. And I'm looking and I'm seeing all this stuff and I'm looking for like, you know, maybe 20 seconds. And then after I'm done, I hit up Jeremy and I'm like, dude, I just saw something that I don't, I have no idea what it is. And he's like, all right, so would you see? I was like, it looked like a guy in a ghillie suit that was like 8 feet tall doing a straight on dead Sprint across a field or like a cow pasture.

21:48 And so we talked about it for a little bit and Oklahoma is a huge area for sightings, right? So they go from one tree line to another tree line. They breakthrough the tree lines and they just haul through these tree lines and they get to the next one. And then they chill out and, you know, crop dusters and all these people, they're always seeing these sorts of things, right? And so I tell him I'm just like, yeah, this is what I saw. And so we kind of deduce it down. I was like, so barring an 8 foot tall Olympic sprinter in a Gilly suit, it was a Sasquatch, right? So it's like, it's like it was crazy. So even going from the start of this podcast where I'm just like, I have no experience. I've been out in the woods a lot, but maybe in not, not the right moments or not the right locations or whatever it is to actually having some kind of experience, not nearly what Jeremy has had, but has gotten me the realm of like, you know, me as a Christian person, I'm like, all right, so God created a Bigfoot.

22:45 We know that Gigantopithecus existed at some point and we know that, you know, people and animals traveled through the ice bridges to the North America from Asia. So maybe that's what happened. And because the food sources and limited resources and all that sort of stuff, they're smaller than they used to be type stuff like the sloths that were the size of minivans or whatever, right. So that's kind of where I I play it as. But I would love to have an experience like Jeremy. I don't know if he's shared it with you yet, but it's pretty crazy. But yeah, I love it when people are big into a Cryptid or a topic, not because it's just something interesting to talk to and or talk about and there's a lot of reaction from it. And they can get a lot of press from it or a lot of views or clicks or whatever it is or monetization from it. But rather because they've had an experience that can that kind of open up their eyes to be like, yeah, I think there might be something here, you know?

23:41 Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. I unfortunately, I haven't seen one aside from through thermal. I've had a lot of audio experiences where have been growled and stuff from very close proximity by something that I couldn't see. And I've been out there to, you know, very close to these things. My mom has actually seen one twice, once in Upper Michigan and then once down in Kentucky and I was there both of those times. One I was for the upper Michigan one I was in a different part of the woods at the time and then in Kentucky.

24:22 I was pretty much just standing right next to her when it happened, but I was digging in the back of the car so missed it. Both thighs. Freaking everywhere, man. I would love to even see one on thermal. I mean me and my wife we have game trail cameras. We have 8 acres, 8 wooded acres and it's, it's pretty popular for, for deer, raccoons, squirrels, you know, all the, all the various animals. Jeremy has a buddy that got a, a wolf on a game trailer camera on the fields over here in Wisconsin. But we we had an incident where the deer don't usually mess with the game trailer cameras. You know, they might snoot at them. You'll see a nose every once in a while. It's kind of funny.

25:04 We'll save those videos and stuff. But we had our camera grabbed and shifted over away from the bait pile we were baiting just to see what was on the property or what was here when we first moved here. So we're throwing out apples out there and corn and peanuts and things like that just to see, you know, what sort of animals can we expect? We're from California, so it's like, you know, what, what what's around here, right? What we got to worry about or, and everything. But yeah, it was weird. It was like there was nothing that was physically on top of the lens of the camera, but the whole camera, it's like it got picked up and just shifted over so we couldn't even see the pile anymore.

25:46 And it we were like, that's weird because the year we'll come over and sniff add and all that sort of stuff, there are coons. They don't care. Nothing else cares. We've had bears on our cameras before and they're just going after whatever food we have on the ground and they're just rolling out when they're done. But that was the weird thing. And it's like, OK, that's kind of strange. And then Jeremy and I, his mom lives on a 40 acre property not far from us and we went over there and we recorded probably an hour worth of stuff on my phone of it was like saplings that were bent in half and held down by stuff. And big old branches like way up there that were not like, you know, a dead branch kind of shears off and just falls, but like ripped off.

26:36 So you could see all the, you know, everything coming off of the trunk and everything. And some strict trees with like roots up in the air, like yeah, it was upside down it. Was and it was right. Next to. Where his mom lives they have some apple trees I'm sure someone planted 30 years ago. They look pretty gnarled, but I mean, you could see all the the deer scat and everything around there. But I mean, looking at food sources and stuff. So I mean, I'm sure there are things out here especially, you know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, you know, Illinois, you know, all these places. There's a lot of rural area where, you know, if it's not owned by someone, it's it's public land or whatever.

27:18 But there's so much of that where it's not fields, it's not neighborhoods, it's not cities, right where things could hide things could, you know, survive and and exist. And people really wouldn't have any idea except for if they saw them personally or they had some trick cameras up, they were able to trick the big feet. And you talk to some Bigfoot or Sasquatch sort of researchers, they, they might say, hey, they might be able to see in IR unlike us. So they could see the lights on those cameras and just shift them to the side when they're coming around a tree, just kind of turn them around so they can't see them, You know, if they're that smart or that intelligent, which is crazy to me. Yeah, we've, we've had a couple experiences like that. We've actually switched in when we were doing the research up at the Heiden adventure.

28:11 We actually switched from triggered trail cameras to time lapse. So instead of waiting for something to walk in front of the camera, we just have the camera take a picture every 5 minutes because you get about the same odds of what are the odds that a Bigfoot is going to walk in front of your camera and trigger that camera very slow. I mean, at one point we had over 20 some cameras on the hidden adventure property and obviously we were getting some pictures from Haydn. But all the pictures that we got of potentially Bigfoot at Haydn, none of them were triggered by the Bigfoot. The original picture on the property was triggered by a deer back in 2012. It was sniffing the stump and this creature was just happened to be in the background of the picture.

28:57 Craig also got another picture of one of these things that was standing there, but it was again, farther away from the camera that something else, a bird or a deer running past had to trigger it. Right. So we've, we've set up multiple different scenarios on the property. We've, we've created entire perimeters so that one section of the property, nothing could enter or leave that area of the property without being setting off one of these things or crossing a camera line. And at one point we actually did get one of these creatures on our time lapse picture. So the we had a thermal imaging video camera set up aimed at the very back of the property where we think these things were coming on and, and like watching us. And So what we, we started doing is we would have two people sit at base camp, which is kind of the middle of this big open field area.

29:53 And they would just sit there, listen, no lights, no nothing. And then the second group, which would be myself and usually one of our other team members or something, would walk to the back of the property and sit back there until we felt like something was there. We get this, you know, weird feeling of being watched or something, right? Like, OK, they're sure they're interested in us. So then we walk back past base camp, around the property, all the way out to the main road and then back to basecamp. And the goal of this was, is to get whatever was back there that was watching us to follow us past basecamp and then basecamp would have these interactions. So this actually worked on several occurrences and this is how my mom actually saw one on the property as it came up to the basecamp area when she saw it. So this particular night, we went and sat back in the the weird area of the property until we felt like we had three of these things actually moving around us. And we stood up and we walked out. Well, we walked past base camp.

30:55 We got a little bit past base camp, at which point Craig and my mom were sitting there and Craig heard one of these creatures running through the woods, bipedal thump, thump, thump, thump, breaking branches and stuff past base camp. He jumped out of his chair, spun around on the ground and like started looking over there because he literally thought this thing was going to come barreling out of the woods at him. So we're already past. We're already out to the main road stuff. We come back. Well, we went back and checked our cameras and that and we had that thermal video back there. What we caught was what looks like one of these things, Army crawls across the woods down there on thermal and it, you know, it's like trying to duck under the camera, bypass that.

31:42 And then what happens is when it stands up past the camera, the trail camera that we had back there out in the little opening snapped a picture of it. So it just so happened that that every 5 minutes snap that one picture and it looks like the typical like Patterson Gimlin film with the one arm back, one leg. You know, I can't tell you which way it was facing. It's literally just this black silhouette, about 6 foot 6 tall standing against the tree line. But it stands when you're flipping through all these thousands of pictures that it took. Yeah, this one picture just stands out where there's this black spot in it. And you're like, what the heck is that? And you zoom in and it's the clear silhouette of this humanoid figure.

32:28 And so within 10 minutes of the thermal video to the trail camera picture being taken. So whatever this creature was, was probably the same creature. Now, you know, honestly, the the thermal doesn't have a time stamp on it. So I know exactly when it was, but based on when we were back there and the time stamps that we can figure it was within 10 minutes of each other that the two pieces were captured. And then we have the audio of this thing running through the woods next to base camp. So it's not that you have, you know, one piece of evidence that's going to prove that these things exist or not. It's when you have all these things that layer on top of each other and, and you can stack that evidence and go, OK, well, this happened, this happened, this happened. And that's not a deer, you know.

33:12 Right. I mean, that's. Somewhere I can see the thermal footage right now? It is on our YouTube channel. It would be That's a hot 1 and it is the finding heightened Season 1. Jeff. I'm going to try. That's the problem with gosh, all these the evidence you have through photography, through videography, through hair samples of things that were people submitted to colleges and they're like, oh, this isn't anything that's known. And every kind of like blows out like, oh, whatever, you know, we're, we're going to have to recover a body. It's not going to be through video.

33:54 It's not going to be through photograph. It's not going to be through hair samples or through footprints or whatever it is, you know, it's going to have to be through a body. And with as limited numbers as they are, I mean, gosh, you might as well find, I don't know what is it a black rhino and just shoot in the face and be like, here it is, you know, and that just definitely decrease the population of the species. You know, it's, it's very unfortunate, but there is an extreme amount of evidence out there and it's, you know, I'm glad there's people out there that are at least doing, gosh, I, I don't want to say it, but like, you know, you get to like the finding Bigfoot sort of like researchers and stuff. And they're out there making calls and hooting and hollering and all this sort of stuff.

34:43 Like, oh, didn't find anything. You know, it's like, it's like, yeah, well, maybe you should shut up. And just, you know, wait, you know, hang out for a little bit, you know, I, I like to hear that there's actually some, some research going on where people are just kind of, you know, put up the cameras, whatever it takes, you know, and just kind of seeing what happens. Have you guys looked into not necessarily baiting, but gift giving? Because we've heard that on this show a lot that if you give gifts, they sometimes give gifts back, right? Peanut butter. We've done a lot of different. Things better fruit of different things, yeah. Yeah, we've done, we've had several different gifting sites.

35:25 We've actually lost a Hot Wheels car recently out there that it had been there for years and years and years. And we obviously, you know, we, we took thermal or thermal sure detector and stuff and went around to look for this thing and can't find it. We did the peanut butter jars originally. We've done all kinds of different things out there. As far as just looking for these things, Like I said, it's all anybody that's interested you. We have a whole book. It's 10 years of research, it's co-authored by myself and Yep. Well.

36:06 Shameless. Plug Find Bigfoot is heightened. It is available on Amazon or our website and then let. Me. You got a book. I do. OK. Yeah, well, I'm buying it right now. Shameless bug. Yep. And yeah, so here's the the link is in the comments section there for the episode that I was talking. About awesome. But yeah, we, we have the whole series finding Hayden on our YouTube channel that is literally all 30 minute episodes that document different aspects of things that we've done up there. So we hung peanut butter jars up on this teepee structure.

36:49 And the, the first one that we did, we hung the peanut butter jar up there. And while I was hanging it, we used paracord, right? So it couldn't get cut, ripped down or anything like that. Well, while I'm stringing this up from the neighbor's property, we hear. Yeah. And I'm like, oh man, so I get a little distracted by this and we we sent a guy back to base camp to get audio recorders ran out there. We actually recorded this. And So what I ended up doing was I tied a loop around the top lip of the peanut butter jar. So it was just kind of like noosed up there. So one month later we came back, the peanut butter jar is completely gone. Just the noose is hanging there.

37:32 OK, so maybe an animal took it, maybe a bear, whatever, but the jar is gone. Like it is nowhere in the vicinity of the TP structure or anything. So we're like, OK, we're going to hang another jar. So this time we punched a hole in the lip of the jar. We strung the paracord through this and we tied it off that way. So it's not going to slip out. It's going to hang there. It's, you know, paracord. Nice tight, strong cord. And about a month goes by again. We come back up there to check it gone again, completely gone. The entire jar, no remnants of it, no laying anywhere near it. We searched the whole area on the ground, you know, the the grasses, everything. It's not there.

38:15 And here's The thing is we do have trail cameras on the time. The first time we had one trail camera set up on it and in one picture, the peanut butter jar is there. The next one it's gone. Don't know what happened. The second time we had a video and a still picture trail camera up on the peanut butter jar. Both of them, same thing, one minute or one video picture, it's there. The next minute it's gone. So the third time we said, OK, I went online and I ordered like those air tags, you know, so that you can track your thing. Yeah, Yeah. So I electrical tape the crap out of this tag onto the peanut butter jar and it was not coming off there again, strung up onto the the teepee and this time we got a series of pictures and videos of squirrels coming and eating the entire jar and the jar is still there. Nothing else.

39:11 Yeah, sure. That's that's hilarious. Here's the anecdotal part of that, though, is OK, so we know that the squirrels in, you know, a couple weeks can empty an entire jar of peanut butter. OK, sure. So we know that these squirrels did it. So maybe they did it to the 1st 2:00. Well, the problem with that is we didn't move the trail cameras. If these squirrels had emptied the first two jars, we would have got them on camera. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's logic, that's science. It's a repeatable thing we have. I mean, like there's got to be like 30-40 pictures of these squirrels, plus the videos and stuff.

39:57 There's tons of documentation of what happened to the third jar. It's, it's very clear. It's not like 01 picture of the squirrel doing it that we just happened to capture. You know, we have tons of evidence of the third one being empty. So why don't we have that for the 1st 2:00? It's almost like the the Sasquatch can sense in some ways, which I'm sure many animals can sense the electromagnetic waves coming from the air tag, right? And they're like, I don't want to get there. You know, maybe it makes them nauseous. Maybe they can just sense it. Like, yeah, maybe they're smart enough to be like, Nope, not going to do it. Without getting too far into your research locations, because I don't want a bunch of people just flooding in there and being all crazy, how do you select your research locations? Like is it based off like the BFRO and their reports or local Wisconsin reports?

40:53 Or just like you just kind of have a feeling like, yeah, it's probably a good spot? Like how do you select that? So for the majority of the stuff that we've done in Rhinelander, WI, in Mountain, WI and those areas that we've documented and stuff on our YouTube channel and that we've gotten reports come in and we focused it on certain locations over there. There are a couple new locations that we're working based on stuff that we've narrowed it down to, to say this area is close between myself and another researcher and we can both get there pretty easily. It has water, it has food, it has everything that the other locations where these creatures are has. So there's no reason why these creatures shouldn't be there. So we started looking into locations like that as well and following up with other citing reports and stuff in the areas, but for the most part, everywhere is kind of just been like reports and stuff that we've gotten for the most part. Do you ever dig deep into the the woo type stuff? Like if you hear like there's portals opening up, like Jeremy and I, I'm not going to disclose the name, but we have a contact here where he claims that there's a portal that opens up and aliens come out and also big feet are present and stuff like that.

42:17 And we've wanted to camp out there, which sounds dope, honestly. But do you do you follow leads like that or is it more in the the natural of, you know, there's we saw this thing drinking or we saw this thing eating and things like that versus we saw a portal open up and the Bigfoot came out. Like how do you judge through your through the, I don't know, sightings or whatever? Which spot is a good spot to go to versus what isn't, you know? Yeah. So we're cryptids, anomalies and the Paranormal society. We have over 10 people on our team that are actively out there working with us in that.

43:02 And each person on the team specializes in our own area of research. Sure. And what that does is allows us to take those reports like you're talking about and go, OK, well, I don't know anything about portals. Well, they do. So they say, OK, well, here's the lore on this or or so on and so forth. And the interesting thing to look at is when you take fairy lore, you take UFO lore, you take Bigfoot lore, and you strip away the names and you know, the stuff like that, the colloquialisms, and you just look at what's being discussed. You find all these similarities and when you look at that it, it leads you to all these other openings of saying, well, you know this, you know the, the kidnapping thing of fairy lore, you know the that goes with aliens, goes with Bigfoot. It you, you start to see all these patterns and stuff emerge. So when you go out to these areas, you have all this stuff reported in these different areas. But The thing is, is just because you're out there looking for Bigfoot doesn't mean everything's a Bigfoot. So, right, if I had a guest on my show, and I wish I could remember who said this because I quoted a lot, he said that a UFO comes down from the sky over the forest and a Bigfoot runs out of the forest towards you.

44:25 Did the Bigfoot get out of the UFO? No, he doesn't want to be abducted. He's running from the same UFO. Right? So just because you have these two phenomenon in the exact same location, if you're out in the woods and you see a glowing ball of light, yeah, it could be Bigfoot related, It absolutely could, or it could be a completely different phenomenon. How many deer hunters have you heard of going out in the woods and seeing a Bigfoot? Are they out there to hunt Bigfoot? No, they're out there to hunt deer or bear or rabbit or squirrel or whatever. They're out there hunting and all of a sudden now you're out there and you see the something else. That's the same way. On a more mundane level, you cannot associate a portal with a Bigfoot just because there's a portal there. Sure, I like the way you think, man. I like that I.

45:10 Like that a lot. What we have done. Like I said, Burlington Woods, the reason why we started off there is because literally everything is being reported there. There's portals, there's a shamanic burial site there. It's a Serpent mound. It has ferry activity. We've had Bigfoot activity. We've seen UFOs over this forest. Why is it all there? I don't know. And that's exactly why we spent so much time down there researching this. And I mean, we're not any closer to answers than we were when we started, but we've been able to document a lot of this stuff and go, OK, it actually is here. We've had a you go ahead. Well, I was going to say, and that's an important step. Yeah.

45:52 You know, I mean documentation, because without that, it's just hearsay, which is, you know, anybody and their mother could make some BS up. It's when it's actually documented that it actually shows anything. Right. Well, obviously, yeah. And that's science. And, and we were able to to bring that science. I'm very science, very show me when we when we put out our our documentaries and stuff on our YouTube channel and our our evidence in that. I go over this stuff and if there's any chance that it's, you know, like something mundane, I'll just throw it out because I'm not I'm not there and I'm not here to tell you that the evidence that I captured was of a Bigfoot unless I legitimately have a video of a Bigfoot right there that you can see it. I don't know what these footprints are. I don't know what caused that branch crack. I don't know what made this audio right. This is out there.

46:44 We documented it. This is what happened. You make up your mind. Do I think that that's what it is? Yes, you know, because of this, this, this, this, this, but that's, that's my opinion because I was there, you weren't there, the other person wasn't there. Nobody else can tell me what I saw, what we experienced, what all else happened that day that led up to those thoughts or feelings or whatever that we're implying to this. Now again, with that, we've gone out and we've done documentation and experiments in this area to say, OK, well the Burlington Woods, again for an example, is got this massive high energy power line that runs over the top of it. So with high EMF, you have the opportunity to hallucinate, to see things, to get this feeling of being watched and all of this things.

47:32 So one of the experiments that we did was we thought, OK, well, a lot of these people are reporting stuff towards night, towards dusk or at night. Well, what happens when, you know, the sun goes down, everyone starts coming home, they turn on their lights, they turn on their TV's and they're sucking more power. So that means that these power lines should be carrying more power back and forth. So we actually went through the woods three times and we took different levels of EMF through the entire forest underneath the power lines, different areas and stuff. And we documented the times, the locations and the the EMF levels of each of these locations to see if that caused the difference. And throughout the entire day, night, afternoon, the three times that we did it, all these levels were the exact same. So whatever's causing this is, is not a fluctuation in energy. So stuff like that is the IT.

48:25 Is a base level. Yeah, yeah. It's it's just. That's pretty cool. Jeremy, have you told him your Bigfoot experience? I don't remember if we talked about it or not or if we stopped just Homewood, I'm not sure. I want to branch off into other things because we're not exclusively a Bigfoot podcast, right? Before we derail, you know if you want to share it with him. I have heard it on my show. I don't if you just want to briefly remind me or whatever, but I remember we have talked about it so. No, we're, we're good. The the listeners have heard that. OK, so so yeah, so we're not exclusively a Bigfoot or cryptozoology in in general podcasts, we try to cover everything, right.

49:10 We used to have a guy on the show that was really big into the the occult. And so he was the guy that would, you know, brief us on things like that and topics like that. We got Jeff here who's really big into conspiracies. Jeremy's more of like the all around science sort of guy. I'm the I'm the look through everything through the lens of the Bible sort of guy, but we try to cover a bunch of topics. But you were talking about there seeing UFOs, right? And so can you give us some cool examples of, of good UFO sightings that you and your you or you and your team has has seen?

49:52 So one of the members on our team used to be on our team. We did A2 part episode of UFOs in Wisconsin and we basically went around, we talked to some witnesses and just kind of did some of that. But then we also did some CE 5, which is trying to draw them in. Sure. So that's that's kind of where the episode went. Now I, I'm not big into the UF OS because I feel like, you know, with Bigfoot, if somebody sees a Bigfoot going back to the flesh and blood thought that nothing is probably within the woods within 20 miles of it, right. So if you see it yesterday, it's probably still pretty close. If you see a UFO yesterday, it's gone.

50:32 Like, yeah, the chances of it coming back or parking in your backyard again or hovering over your house, it's just not going to be there. So aside from putting a pin on a map, what can I do about this? So we looked at it from the other aspect of trying to go out and do the CE5 and draw one in. So that's that's kind of where we went with our episode of this. And to that effect, we set up ACE 5 in Neenah, WI and we allowed the whole public to come and do it. And we set up flight tracker, we set up star charts, we set up satellite charts and all this stuff. So we had all these on the table. So anything that was spotted in the sky, we know exactly what it was. And we actually did have one anomaly that night that we weren't able to pinpoint to anything else.

51:18 I mean, it's a, it's a random light in the sky that flew over us and we have no idea what it was, but that's not too exciting. But it happened. I mean, that's, that's science. That's what you're looking for. You know, you want a sighting of something anomalous and and that's what it was. Now more weird. One of my members of the team actually saw a full saucer over the city of Neenah, which is why we use that as a kind of jumping board to use Nina as our thing. Myself and my mom were driving from Lower Michigan to Upper Michigan, crossing the the bridge there by St. Ignace, and we saw a weird silver object in the sky that just disappeared.

52:02 And the probably the biggest thing that I've saw is I actually saw what looked like a circular edge of a disc lit up with lights in Appleton. I was driving to work one day at night and this thing was hovering right over like an apartment building. I didn't see the craft itself, but there was just a string of lights and it was like 100 to 200 feet above ground. So it wasn't a plane, it wasn't power lines, it wasn't anything there because it it, it isn't there anymore. Obviously I've looked forward every time that I drive by, it's not there. And I, I went down to the next exit and I turned around to come back and it was gone. So I still have no idea what the heck that thing was. But that was probably my most clear UFO sighting. Was that one.

52:54 That's awesome, Barnaby, my my wife in the chat Woens told me to send you so I sent you through your Facebook. I hope that's actually you. The video when I it's probably it was probably 2014. I was at Naval Air Station Oceana, Virginia, and it's a jet squadron or jets base, right? So it's all F eighteens and no helicopters. And we had a UFO sighting. It was me and a bunch of buddies out in the smoke pit. So it was basically a like a pergola out in the middle of the grass, right?

53:37 We're grilling out and everything. And me and about 30 people saw this thing coming down and I was the only one that pulled out my phone to record it. So, you know, check it out, you know, there's plenty of things. I, I think it could have been, it could have been skydivers and stuff. But the problem is, is that because we were a jet squadron and we had night OPS going on, the likelihood of having a helicopter flying over and dumping out spec OPS use skydiving missions is very slim because they could get smacked by a jet. So versus when I was in Norfolk, VA, which was a helicopter, mostly squadron, and it was very rare to get an F18 where we'd have night OPS like that all the time.

54:22 So check it out, you know, but Whitney wanted me to, to, to share that with you just to have a have a look, see. But yeah, it was, it's pretty cool. Yeah. No, dude, that's, that's dope. Your experiences with F, with UF OS or UA PS You know, it's just, gosh, I think I, I really hope that as you know, I'm not super big into this administration or that administration. I think they're kind of two sides of the same coin, right? But I really hope we get some Dang good answers as far as this administration goes in the United States as to see what these things are. You know, what is all going on Being prior military, I did 13 years in the Navy.

55:12 I understand, you know, having to keep secrets, right? We don't want our enemies to under to know what we're working on, right? If we have a a craft that can break Mach 10 and do a 90�� turn at, you know, 1000 miles an hour, we don't want that technology falling to our enemy's hands. And I and I feel that, but the same time I feel like we need at least some kind of an explanation on all the crap that's been going on. And I really hope that, you know, it's tough for me. My mom was in the Navy and she did top secret stuff. She doesn't even have fingerprints anymore, which is interesting. But she did top secret stuff in Southern California. And she said, you know, like the F35. I was like, all right, cool.

56:00 You know, vertical takeoff, you know, jet, right? And I was like, yeah, sure. Whatever she's like that's probably been in production for 40 years because they need to know if we make a 90 degree 90�� turn at, you know, 600 miles an hour, is it going to rupture the airframe and cause the pilot to get ejected out into space and all this sort of stuff right then, you know, these sorts of things. So it's probably been in production for a very, very long time. And that's what we might be seeing with some of these Uaps or UFOs and things like that, you know, these drones that can do things that we know for a fact there's no way the human body can sustain that sort of level of GS. You get turned into scrambled eggs or hamburger meat, but but you know, for drone technology, we know it's way more advanced than probably the you know, 4 propeller helicopters are flying around right type stuff.

56:58 But where did that start? And hopefully we'll get some sort of answers as far as some of the UFO sights we've seen, whether it's the tier 3B, it's a triangle shaped UAP that has lights all around it and three lights at the bottom right type stuff. Is that is that from out of this world? Is that from another country? Is that from our own military technology? You know, what is that? So hopefully we'll be getting some of that. But yeah, that's, that's dope. I've I, I recorded for these guys. I didn't post, no. I did post it on the group for infant rabbit hole but it was a drone that was flying over us. Me and my wife were driving home from work. We got like an hour drive to and from work and I was like it's not a helicopter because there's no light at the bottom.

57:43 Not searching for anybody. The crash lights are weird and it's just staying there. And so we get closer and closer, closer. Finally she tells me to pull over because I'm like, look at it. She's like, you're going to, you're going to get us in the head on collision. So I pull over and I film it and it's it's weird, dude. It's like, it's like a, it's like a diamond or whatever, but it's, it's on both sides. It's not. Like gang signs? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Shit. But yeah, I know it's weird and I've seen a UF O / a mountain. It was just silver and it was just sitting there. And I told Jeremy when I was driving past it, I was like, I think I'm sending a UFO And it's right next to a military base.

58:25 You know, it's right next to Southern California. We had a, a rail cannon right type stuff. We had some crazy stuff there in on my last base. But you know, hopefully we'll get some answers. I, I, I don't know, I don't believe in UFOs the way that other people see UFOs. It's, I don't think they're from out of the Earth, right? I don't I don't know why we would be able to travel millions of light years and still need landing lights. So here's here's, here's, here's the thing, man, right? The, the external lights. I, I think that we're looking at that.

59:06 We're putting a human filter on that right? We're, we're applying a human meaning to it when it it could mean multiple different things. We're just, we're applying what we as humans would look at that and say that's landing lights, but it could mean whatever it means to it. Could be anything else. It could be a type of camouflage. It it could be, it could be right. It could be anything but recently right. And I'm probably going to catch some Flack from this, but I'm, I'm halfway through Lou Elizondo's book right Imminent. And I have heard so many negative things about this guy's book. But let me tell you one thing. This guy's book is so packed full of the most densest content that I've, I think I've ever read. Like, I've been reading this thing for over a month now. And I'm, I, I blow through books. I blow through them super fast.

1:00:01 I just got done with a, a section that directly relates to what you're talking about right now. And it's called the Observables. And he specifically talks about these five observable facts that you can make by looking at UAP and specifically from the point of view of pilots or people who are are knowledgeable from the point of view of engineers or people who are, are surely knowledgeable about flight mechanics. One, OK, these things move extremely fast, right? We know this. They move up to 13,000 mph, which is 17 mock, not just 10, right? They have gone up to 17 mock.

1:00:42 They've been clocked multiple times, it going up to 17 mock and slightly beyond. Not only do they go 17 Mach, but they are also multi domain, meaning that they go from space to the atmosphere of Earth to water back out, back into space, back into the atmosphere, earth back into the water. Never even decelerating or even making a splash in the water whatsoever. Like they don't make. They don't. They don't disrupt the water. When they enter the water at 13,000 mph, they don't make a splash, they don't stop, they don't decelerate. They they stop all of a sudden and then they accelerate right to 13,000 mph immediately. That's unheard of.

1:01:29 That's incredible. There's no human technology that can come anywhere near that. Even if it's a drone, the materials that we have that we have access to can't do that. It's as if gravity doesn't affect these things when we break the sound barrier, which is at one GS11G force, which is the OR I'm sorry, one mock, right? One mock is the sound barrier for us. And that is at sea level at, at standard weather or normal weather, 600 something mph, right? When that happens, the vibrations of the aircraft create vibrations in the, the air molecules around it, which create the cone, the, the sound. And it, it, it looks like a bow wave coming off of the, the stern of a, of a ship, right?

1:02:25 And basically what happens is these, these air molecules, because the, the craft is moving faster than the speed of sound, these sound waves can't move away from the object fast enough. So they pile up on top of each other and literally force upon each other to create a bulk, which takes the form of a wave. And they create that V, that famous V, just like the bow wave of, you know, like a ship in water. And when that bow wave passes an object that can observe it like we can with our ears, it creates a a boom which we we interpret or we call a Sonic boom.

1:03:07 That does not happen with UAP. They do not create a Sonic boom when they pass one mock. They do not create a Sonic boom when they crack, when they pass 234 all the way up to 17 mock, they do not create a Sonic boom no matter what. So they do not do that. They do not create heat inhalation. They do not 'cause ionization, they do not create static charge, they do not create any of that. Nothing like when we watch it with infrared or watch it with sonar, radar, whatever. We, they do not pick up any signatures whatsoever from these craft. There's nothing there that tells you that this thing is even an object other than that it is looks solid. There's no exhaust, there's no nothing. There is literally no signature to this these objects whatsoever.

1:03:56 I mean, these things are cold. Then could it be a hologram? It could be. It very well could be. But then you go. But hold on. But then you go back to the like we talked about before, like the Bob Lazar whistleblow from 1989, right when you talk about element 1151 or 1:15 or whatever. It was right. When you said that this they use that that this specific element to help displace gravity around the the the UFO and that they were reverse engineering and they discovered that this element 115 was used to displace gravitational the forces around the the craft itself, creating a self vacuum bubble sort of similar like a like a.

1:04:51 The thing? Yeah, sort. Sort of like a bubble of outer space literally surrounding the craft. So. That there. Is no resistance whatsoever as this thing is floating through space or as it is going through our atmosphere as it is going through the water, as it is entering the water. So it is removing all matter as it is moving simultaneously through. That's the only technology that could even make this happen. We don't have access to that and we're far away from that shit. Unless Bob Lazar was correct. And then you have, you know, you have the buck. What's his name? The, the, the guy who blew up the, the, the, the, the Tesla truck in Las Vegas. Who, who sent the, the e-mail to Sam Shumake, who ended up going on to Homeboys.

1:05:42 Yeah, Homeboys podcast. Yeah. And he was talking about anti gravitical technologies. And then you had the, I think it was Sam Barber. Great. Was that his name? Jake Barber. That went on to Newsweek and he was talking about his, the crash retrieval and he was also talking about anti gravitical technologies and stuff. I mean, we're starting to see a theme here. Anti gravity, something about gravitational replacement technologies. Louise Elizondo is talking about it. Everyone's talking about this. That's the only way that you can make this happen. So I guess my question to you then, is it impossible for us to have the technology or are we not preview to this sort of technology? I think, I think that it's a good chance we have it. I think it's a good chance that we have. We have it and then we're working to reverse engineer it. But I think that if we had it, we would have already used it against our adversaries because I think that if we have this, that there's no way that we don't use it because it's an, it's almost an instant checkmate because we can, we can literally deliver a payload to anywhere in, in this world almost instantaneously without any, any payback. I mean, we could literally deliver a payload anywhere without any repercussions because nobody would be would be able to know that we did it.

1:07:03 I think that maybe we do, but the limiting factor is morality. You're saying that the US government has? Morality. No, I'm not saying the government has morality. I'm saying the individuals have morality. Yes, we could new Russia into a parking lot, but maybe the person has morality and just saying that, well, it's literally Putin that's the problem, not all of Russia. So I I think it might because I mean. Look, it's also a Cold War because if you're saying that we have this technology, any other government that's done UFO UAP research has also got that same technology and has been able to back engineer it just as well as we have. We've all gotten it about the same time. We've all been in the game the same time. How do you know, you know what's going back to, you know what you said about hiding the intelligence? You don't want your adversaries to know what you have. And we all have that finger hovering above the button. And until you drop that, you know, whatever and say, OK, we have this technology.

1:08:11 Now all of a sudden every other country around the world that has been studying this and has the same technology, we're afraid of what's going to happen when that happens. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Then you have what, what's that? What's that term that they that they used in? Nuclear destruction. Assured Assured Destruction? Exactly. Yeah. So basically the idea is, is that if a foreign entity attacks us, we will launch everything that we have at them to ensure they're in total annihilation. Because most of our ICBM's or our S IBM's right sub intercontinent continental ballistic missiles, they're tracked and they're able to find where they're at, not maybe the Subs, but the ICBM's because they're all over the Midwest.

1:09:05 So if we get attacked, say by Russia in a nuclear force, we're going to attack them with everything that we have because it's better to do that than to do a couple nukes and allow the rest of them to be destroyed by incoming fire. So it's a mutually sure destruction clause that the president has in the football. So if we get attacked right, so. I don't know if you ever Have you ever heard of a great? Have you ever heard of a Great Filter? No. So there's a, there's a theoretical filter that's applied to, to civilizations throughout the Galaxy, right where it's, it's basically like a kill switch, right? Where when a, when a, when a civilization hits this filter, basically it's a technological thing, whenever they hit the filter that they're done, right?

1:09:58 When you give them too much power or you give them a certain technology, they end up killing themselves. Nuclear power was supposed to be one of those filters. Antigravitical power could be technically one of those filters. AI you know self-sustaining AI is supposed to be one of those filters, right? I mean, fuck, what was that movie? Terminator was is is a movie literally based around one of those filters. When when AI literally becomes self sustainable and doesn't no longer needs human beings and just kills off all the biologics and becomes self sustainable, just gets rid of us. That's that's a great filter that could be an answer to this. These things that we see could be the remnants of a great filter.

1:10:57 These could be AI from a civilization that is no longer around. See, I find no evidence for that at all, man. There is there's no evidence for. I would love for that to be the case. Just the idea that there has been other civilizations or is right I'm the space is fake guy but at the same time like I would love for there to be some Star Wars shit happening right? I'm there for it. But I think what everybody always forgets is like we talk about like this shit, like this cold, new Cold War, right? Like we have this technology. They must have the technology or whatever the case might be. We got to remember, man, like this whole like nation state, like war, like all this type of stuff. This geopolitical theater is just that. It's just theater, right?

1:11:48 And you can, you basically know this because like we all get along in Antarctica and we all get along on the space station. Everything's cool on the space station in Antarctica, yet everywhere else it's World War Three. World War 3 is always about to fucking start, right? And there's these mutually assured destruction, you know, technologies that were just pointing at each other all the fucking time. I don't buy it for a second, dude. I think that there's another layer above the theater, right? Call it the shadow government, call it the Illuminati, call it whatever you want to call it, but there has to be another layer above the thing that we all see. And that layer probably has access to these technologies. And also two things can be true at the same time. There's almost, in my opinion, there's almost definitely this shadow government with UAP technology. And they've utilized this UAP technology for blackmail purposes, for, you know, threatening world leaders to keep them in check in theater, right, to keep the play moving. So if you don't play along, we show up and we do some spooky, my lab shit, military abduction shit, you know, weird stuff like that.

1:13:01 But also at the same time, I think some of the phenomenon that we've always seen forever, all of human history, it's the gods, man. Like, again, call it what you want, interdimensionals, demonic entities, the gods, right? Like this, there's some other thing that's happening that's probably tied to the spirit world or some interdimensional realm that we can't really feel. This is why these objects can go into the water with no splash and not create Sonic booms and so on and so forth, because they're not physically in this space. We're just catching glimpses of them somehow. All right, So I think both of those things are true. There are technologies that higher up than the theater has, and then I think there's also like a spiritual level to it as well.

1:13:46 All right, Jeff. Jeremy, shut up. I want to hear from Barney. He's our guest, so. It was literally the first time Jeff talked the entire show and you said. It's the only thing you know that talk about. But he's going to shut up now. Now if you want to respond him, go ahead. I I, I don't know, I'm just listening. I mean, like I, I said my piece, I think that, you know, like I think they all have the, the power to that. I think that, you know, the, you talked about the transmedium travel. You know, Jake Barber talks about that as well. You look at that on Skinwalker Ranch, you listen to Jake Barber's testimony, you look at the stuff that they're getting on Skinwalker Ranch where they're supposedly watching this thing go into the Mesa and come out of the Mesa. Well, in Jake Barber's full interview with Newsweek, he talks about the same phenomenon.

1:14:36 And I think that's very interesting. I do a whole presentation on the science of the paranormal, and in that presentation I talk about the electromagnetic spectrum all the way from the radio waves up through visual light, and then the radioactive stuff. And what you find with these particles when you get up into the radioactive spectrum and the higher frequencies in that is these particles are able to pass through things. So again, all this stuff is going on around us that we're not able to see. It's not in our visual spectrum. And what's happening is these objects, these UFOs, these whatever, when they're coming down in frequency to our level, this is when we're able to see them and interact with them.

1:15:22 And this is also why you get these radioactive side effects from it. People that have seen like in the Skinwalkers of the Pentagon book, they talk about a lot of people have been Skinwalker Ranch and taking things home with them. You know, the the hitchhiker effect and have seen these orbs or balls of light. And I love that book, that one and Lou Elizondo that you said earlier and then Hunt for the Skinwalker as well. Those are three required reading if you're into any of this stuff. But they talk about the hitchhiker effect. There you go. And this radioactive side effect to it. Well, if they're getting this radioactive side effect, that explains a lot of these transmedium things that you're experiencing. Because you know, look at look at your your X-rays. When you get up to the higher levels of your frequencies, you have the visual light spectrum and then the infrared light, the ultraviolet light, and then you have the X-rays. Well, X-rays are what we use to literally X-ray our bodies. And then you have the gamma rays and the other radioactive rays that allow you to penetrate.

1:16:28 Into the Hulk, yeah. Everything you know from walls and stuff like that. This also explains how, you know, you hear people talking about these interdimensional or extraterrestrial beings coming through walls into their bedrooms at night and stuff, or being able to levitate these people through walls and take them places. Because if they're able to raise that vibrational frequency, you're able to pass through different substrates, different levels, different molecules and stuff with that higher frequency. So when you look at this at a scientific level, this all starts to make sense that, you know, it doesn't have to be extraterrestrials, it doesn't have to be interdimensional, whatever it it puts it into the frame of reference that we already have.

1:17:12 Yeah, there's just to take take a step back the sorry. We're going forward. The the the three books, the three books that you mentioned, they go together so well. If anybody really wants a a full snapshot of the entire offsat journey, the the trio of books that is Hunt for the Skinwalker, Skinwalker, the Pentagon and imminent are that those are those three books right there are just your full full spectrum story of of what OSAP is, how BASS joined them, how they how they started off as nids became BASS, how OSAP turned into insips or I'm sorry, how it how they turned into a tip or they they burped a tip as part of OSAP and then a a tip became its own self basically run body after OSAP took a took a nosedive and Lou Elizondo became the head of that.

1:18:24 And it's, it's such AI think it's, it's under undervalued what OSAP did. And they're catching a lot of heat right now because of all the stuff that's coming forward. I think a lot of people are having trouble believing all the stuff that that's being put out right now because it's coming from a government entity. And I understand that, right? I understand that, you know, a lot of people are are pushing back, especially, you know, like people from like, let's just say Jeff's circle of friends, right? But they're, they're not the, the most friendliest when it comes to government entities, right? Especially when they're releasing this kind of information, they're always like, man, this smells like shit.

1:19:16 You know, this looks like shit, smells like shit. Must be shit, right? Why are they giving us all this information? This information is too good. There must be some crap behind it. Everything's a fucking SIOP. And see, see, right, so and I'll, I'll admit, like there's some, you know, especially in imminent and this Skinwalkers at the Pentagon book, there's some really juicy shit in there. There's some really, really, really good shit in there. And like some stuff in there that I'm that I'm reading and I'm like, wow, I can't believe that people are are allowed to publish this. That's pretty intense. And I can understand where people are are coming from. But if you're, if you're looking at it and you're looking at the science that's behind it and you're checking the science and, and you're, you're, you're really diving into it, a lot of this is really well thought out and a lot of it makes a lot of really good sense.

1:20:17 It really does. There's a lot of dots being connected and a lot of lines drawn. And I think that especially the two the skin walkers at the Pentagon imminent. I think that there's a lot of things in there that I think a lot of people should read, even if it is government planted information, I think that there's a lot of really good information in there that are people that people really need to take away from from, from this, because even if it is just planted information, there's still really good high quality stuff in there. I don't want to give it all away because I, you know, I'm, I'm really big on, on letting authors tell their stories.

1:20:59 So I'm trying, trying to tiptoe around most of it. But like, like what you were saying, there's a sorry, I'm trying to trying to think of whether or not I want to go down that whole rabbit hole because we're already an hour and a half into this, this show. Well, let's derail then. Yeah, I know it's probably a better idea. How about this, we'll get them on later on and we'll talk about all the other stuff. I, I really want to get into the rest of this research. How about the paranormal? You talked about a little bit as far as the different wavelengths and being able to go through walls and things like that and and move objects or not move objects, but what sort of experiences have you had on a team or by yourself dealing with the paranormal? In my experiences I've seen full bodied apparitions, I've seen shadow entities, I've recorded Evps, I have experienced objects move, I have had a six foot fake tree thrown at me even before I started caps.

1:22:16 That was my my first paranormal experience. I've shared it on several shows and stuff, but I've, I mean, you name it, I've, I've had the gambit of stuff happen. I guess I'm, I'm a firm believer that there's, there's stuff out there in the paranormal realm of, you know, ghosts or spirits and stuff like that. I am very fortunate to have two amazing mediums on my team, as well as a few others that are on call with us. And they are absolutely phenomenal with what they do IA 100% believe in them because they have been able to get information that they shouldn't know that they did. You know, like there's, there's no way that they would have known that information if they weren't literally talking to the spirit of of somebody that has passed. So they're, they're amazing, phenomenal people. And by using them in the field, it, it adds so much to the stuff that we investigate.

1:23:14 So. So what do you think as far as the entities that you, excuse me, the entities that you encounter, are they in your mind say like the layman's terms, are they ghosts, spirits, angelic beings, demons, you know, leftovers, energies, things like that? Like what do you think that they are? There's a little bit of everything, actually. We've encountered the spirits of people that have passed, people that are stuck at a specific location for a reason. We had one, one location where we work where there was three children, ghosts that were literally being held there by a dark entity. And the dark entity was not a human. It was literally feeding off the the suffering and the energy and stuff of these other ghosts.

1:24:07 And we were able to hold the children in a sacred safe space and allow them to crossover while holding this other thing at Bay. We had several counters with this thing where every time we'd have a conversation with another being of the building, this thing would come in and they would take over. He's coming, he's here, you know, all the stuff. And we'd be having these wonderful conversations of, you know, like, how are you today? Oh, I'm good, you know, everything's great. It's, you know, it's party, we're having fun, you know, all this stuff and then leave, get out, you know, all that. And it the whole energy, all the equipment changes everything. And so there's definitely things out there that are what we call like energy vampires. They just come in and feed off of the energy of a location or the other spirits there or what not. I don't.

1:24:59 I would say there's only been one or two cases in my whole time as a researcher where if you've encountered a a demonic entity and the one case was was really bad. It was in Kenosha, WI. We got called in and it is our episode called Documenting Fear. And this family called us in. They had literally blocked off the upstairs of their house. They taped off all their vents in the house. They covered up all the mirrors and they said all this stuff is happening. You know, we're hearing voices. We're we're seeing capturing stuff on pictures. They'll take a picture of something and this entity will show up in the picture that they didn't see in person.

1:25:41 All this stuff is happening. They said, you know, we're leaving. We're moving out at the end of the month and we want you to come in and document what you can because we want to know if we're going crazier, if this stuff is actually happening. And so we came in and we set up our equipment, we spent the night there and everything, did all this stuff. And we got a little bit of evidence and we went back and started reviewing it and we got full conversations of these entities on audio and. Talking to each other? Yeah, we're talking to you. Talking to each other. Oh wow. We had an audio recorder upstairs that says hurt him, No, hurt him now and then it growls and then it says OK and there's nobody upstairs. It was just this audio up there, other voices. And that was in Kenosha.

1:26:27 Kenosha, WI Yeah. That's where I joined the Navy out of. That's crazy. Yeah, this, this family, I mean, they, they're still having problems and stuff and we've tried to get them help and, and reach out and stuff. But the problem with this stuff is, is if the people aren't willing to help themselves, there's nothing you can do. You know, sure, people talk about saging a house or, you know, creating a safe space and all that stuff that helps, that works, but you have to maintain it. You have to keep yourself safe and and push this stuff out and learn how to control your abilities. And remove everything that this thing could be attached to. Right.

1:27:11 Right. So if there's a Ouija board somewhere upstairs in the attic, get rid of it. Yeah. Properly. You got to. Yeah. Properly. So yeah. It's, it's funny because my, my mom, so my grandfather was in the Air Force and he was stationed in, in England. And they're on base housing. And they were in this this house where apparently, I don't know, some Dear John letter or whatever, but they got divorced and the wife decided she was going to kill herself and all of her children. So she drowned all of her children in the tub and then hung herself off the banisters. Well, it's base housing. So they're not going to demolish a building off of some, you know, pesky little, you know, murder suicide type stuff.

1:27:55 So my mom, she recalls when she was very little, like 5, that they lived in this haunted house and it would turn on the the stove top, which was gas powered and, and move towels over there to set the fire alarm off and try to burn the house down and all this sort of stuff. And she recalls being pushed down the stairs, you know, all this sort of stuff. My mom's very Christian woman. She doesn't move in ghost. She doesn't believe in leftover spirit. She believes in demons, you know, and maybe there's a demonic entity that was attached to that house, right? But all this sort of stuff. And so one day it was just like months and months and months of this.

1:28:38 Grandpa comes home from work, he's active duty Air Force, and he shouts into the house from the entryway. If you don't knock this stuff off, I'm going to burn this house to the ground. And then everything stopped for two years. They finished up the rest of the tour. Grandpa got back in the States. Everything was good, fine for two years. So grandma and grandpa are now in their, you know, late 70s and they want to go on like a trip of all the places they've been because they went lots of places in Germany, Italy, you know, France, England, all these sorts of places. So they're doing their like 40th wedding anniversary. So they go to England on this trip and they, they go to the base and sure enough, the house is still there.

1:29:24 And grandma's like, I want to, I just, I just want to see. So she goes up, she rings the doorbell, lady answers. She's like, is she still here? And she's like, is who still here? She's like, you know her and she's like, you know about her. It's like, Oh yeah, she terrorized 40 years ago, you know, and stuff like that. Like it, it's crazy. So even still, like even, you know, my Christian beliefs that you know, you're dead and you're dead and you know you're saved, you're not and all that sort of stuff. It can't really dissolve, I guess, the experience or the fact that there are other things now, whether that's angelic or demonic or something else, some sort of energy, because you know, it could be true.

1:30:14 We are, our souls are made out of energy and that's why we can't be killed or destroyed, right? We go from one place to another place. It could be that, right, But it, it's so creepy, dude, it's so gross and creepy, especially when you go from, you know, I, I, I don't know, you know, I suppose people might have unfinished business. I always like to throw in the, the anecdote of what about the hipster ghost that was running in the street to grab his vape that he dropped and got hit by a bus and now he's just haunting the street corner right now. Like if there were ghosts that died in, in tragic events.

1:30:54 And I, I like to say that, you know, 400,000 people die worldwide every single day. And it's not from dying, you know, in a bed surrounded by their family members. It's from getting hit by cars and getting murdered and getting mauled by wild animals and all sorts of terrible things. If there were ghosts and people were able to perceive them, it would be like bumping into sand on the beach. Like every single step you take, you'd be slamming into them because they're just there, right? Because there's been so many people. Even from a creationist perspective of 10,000 years, there has been 85 billion people that have lived on this earth, right? So, and most of them from untimely death. So the ghost idea for me is so underwhelming where it has to be someone that died in this horrible experience. Like school shootings, like I don't want like to bring them up, but they would be hot spots for terrible, terrible paranormal activity, right?

1:31:59 But you don't really see that. But that's not to say that there isn't also something there because there are people they're able to pick up on this. And even if they weren't previously warned of, hey, we're walking into a house where 3000 patients died under the care of one sick ass doctor, right? Or whatever it was like in Clovis, CA, it was, it was 300 and or 400 patients died because there was 20 doctors covering over them in a in a elderly care unit. And they left. They just said screw this, we're done. And they all starved to death, pissing themselves and crapping themselves until they died, right. And it was a haunted hotspot until it was removed. I think there's a Walmart there now, right? So it's just, it's just gone.

1:32:51 But there are still examples of people that can feel these sorts of things. And that's why I like you weren't here. But last episode, I think Jeff said or Jeremy, we should pull someone out of an indigenous tribe that has nothing to do with our culture and put them in a house that's supposed to be super duper haunted and see what they think. Even if they have, you know, shaman sort of religions and things like that where they, you know, believe in the spirits, maybe they'll be like, oh, Dang, a house I have to build Cool. And they'll be fine, right? Versus US. I'm like, oh, it's spooky in here. I don't know. But I do believe there's something there. You know, I'm not going to discredit it entirely and say that it's all baloney because otherwise there would be no story right there. There wouldn't be a person walking into a situation where something bad happened and being like, oh, gosh, there's something here.

1:33:42 It'd be like, yeah, it's just house, you know, there has to be something there. Well, you're talking about a lot of different things there, though. You're talking about residual energy. So somebody doesn't have to die to leave their energy in a location, you know, So a lot of these traumatic like battles and stuff, anything where there's, you know, if somebody lives in a house and loved the house and, and really cared about the house, you can still leave a part of yourself, a a little bit of your soul there in that location and still be alive. There's been cases of that too, where somebody that used to live in a house is haunting that house, but is still alive and living in a different location. And they've documented this as far as like knowing the person and, and stuff that's happened there, like routines and stuff like that.

1:34:30 You also have, you know, you talked about like school shooters and stuff like that. A lot of those cases are, you know, I don't want to say they're not bad or not traumatic, but they're not. They they happen, they're done, they're gone. If they got shot, they moved on. Children to a certain age have this innocence where they haven't latched on to this world. They haven't, you know, solidified in here where they would have that unfinished business. Their soul can move on and, and just be done with it. You know, where as you're talking about, like the other cases where you have, you know, the abuse, the neglect and stuff like that where they've been tortured there. Again, that doesn't mean that a person's soul is trapped there, but a part of them is this reflection or an imprint of the stuff that was there, this energy that's left behind.

1:35:22 It doesn't necessarily mean that the spirit of the person is there, but it means that they've left this image, this negative of what happened. And this is where you get like the residual cases instead of the the intellectual, the intelligent hauntings. And a lot of the times the places that we go where we interact with these spirits, like we do a paranormal tour up here in Wisconsin and this place is severely haunted, is the most active location that we've ever investigated. Yet when we have people come in for the tours, it's not the spirits of the building that necessarily interact with the people that come through, but the people's families and loved ones that have passed. Because when you open up this door and you say, hey, we're going to do this ghost tour, you know, in this ghost investigation and here's all this equipment and we're opening up that door to have a communication with the other side. Your mother, your grandmother, your best friend who passed is going to come through and say, hey, I want to talk to you. You know, just because you're here to talk to the the spirits that are haunting this building, that doesn't mean that that's who's going to come through.

1:36:25 And, you know, I would say it's at least 5050. The chance that when we do these tours, somebody's family member is what comes through and interacts with the people on the tours and investigations rather than the people that are actually in the building. And we know who's in the building. So we can tell you, OK, this is the spirit of this one, this one, this one, this one that we've documented here. That's not who you're talking to. This is something else. Now let's figure out who it is. And then we start working through it and it's like, oh, this is, this is your dad, this is your grandma. And it's really interesting stuff that you know, it's, it's not all the same thing. So how would you differentiate between the the energy or the the ghost or the spirit of the person that's dead versus the person that's still alive? Because that's something I've never heard before, that's people leave imprinting energy on a location. So how would you as a researcher be able to differentiate between those two?

1:37:24 That's where you go into the research side of it and finding out, well, who is it that we're actually talking to? And then you find out the history of the location, the house and stuff like that. I don't remember all the exact details of that story. I remember it was a guest on one of my shows that came in and talked about that. And they, it was a guy that was, it was their, their spirit or the energy was still in this house and they literally knew from somebody like the neighbor or something, they're like, well, this is this guy. And you know, this is what he did. He, he made his coffee every night at the same time because he went to work and they, they knew his pattern and they were able to say, well, this guy's still alive. He just moved out. But that's how they knew because they could pinpoint it down.

1:38:07 Now for us, it'd be really hard because you would have to, you know, do the research, find out who lived in the location, who has passed away in the location and stuff like that. And a lot of times it's not even necessarily the people that died in a location. A lot of people think that, you know, if you die at a certain house that you're going to haunt that house. Well, that's usually not how it works. Like I said, it's, it's usually when, when you have a house that's haunted or you are having, if you move into a house and there's stuff happening from day one, it's probably the house, the land, the property, right? If all of a sudden something starts happening to you, like we get phone calls, we get emails and stuff with people asking for our help, private houses and stuff. And when we go into these locations, we don't go, you know, well, you know, tell me the whole history of the house. I can look it up online.

1:38:54 What I say is what's going on with you? What, what have you been experiencing? Have you lost a job recently? Have you, you know, gone through a divorce? Have you been through some, some traumatic instance? And I'm not saying that you're making it up. What I'm saying is, is that somebody on the other side is watching over you and they're telling you, Hey, I'm here for you. You need to pay attention to what I'm saying. You know, and this, this entity that's knocking, you know, your, your grandma's picture off the wall is actually wearing grandma saying, hey, see this picture of me? I'm trying to get your attention. Everything's going to be all right. I'm watching over you, you know, and, and when people start doing that, they're like, Oh my gosh, you're right. I, I have been smelling my grandma's perfume lately, you know, and Oh my gosh, you know, I, I never put that together.

1:39:38 And, you know, people are always scared of what they don't understand. If you don't know why this demon is throwing your grandma's picture off the wall, that can scare the crap out of you. And now all of a sudden you put this together of, oh, maybe that is, you know, just what this is going on. And that knowledge, that understanding helps people understand and gives them that doorway to communicate and say, you know, whenever I smell this, whenever I hear this, you know, I think of my grandma and I feel better because, you know, we were very close. And, and it's helping me get through these situations and things start to calm down because you're, you're understanding what's going on. You're understanding who's trying to get your attention, who's trying to make those connections with you. You know, it's funny you say that. I had a dream this week of one of my Co workers that I'm not incredibly fond of and of all the people to confront me about what my behavior towards him.

1:40:38 It was my grandpa who's been dead for 10 years, but he was my he was closer to me than my dad was. And he had these big old sausage fingers build mechanic hands and he would poke it into your sternum. And when he wanted to get your attention, you'd be like, you know, jabbing in your sternum. And he told me he's like, he's like, you are being a terrible example of what a Christian is by mistreating your Co workers. Pay attention. Stop being an asshole type stuff. Right? And I told one of my my Christian Co workers and he's like sounds like, sounds like a message. You know, that's what it sounds like. I was like right about out of everyone that could have been doing that, it was him.

1:41:18 And that yeah, I mean, you know, I'm, I'm not, I mean, I'm the guy that's never died before here I am, right. So I'm not to say what is or isn't possible on the other side. You know, I'm not going to say that I know for beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is or isn't possible. But yeah, it's just like, I get it. That's pretty dope, yeah. Your comment section's right too. Just because a spirit says that they're your loved one or something, they can definitely be lying. And that's where you run into these problems. A lot of people, you know, oh, I want to be a ghost hunter.

1:42:00 I'm going to go to the cemetery. Well, this is a huge problem because what happens, you know, if you're again, you're going looking for your grandma, you want to talk to your grandma's spirit? Well, sure. Your loved ones are always with you. They're always around you. They're always protecting you and watching over you. And what happens is you go to the cemetery. And what's at the cemetery? A lot of loss. A lot of. Grieving a lot of this negative energy. And what were we talking about earlier is these energy vampires that feed off that negativity. Well, so you go to the cemetery to visit your your grandma's grave and you say, oh, grandma, you know, are you here with me? You know, oh, I miss you so much. I wish you'd come with me. Well, these negative things that are at the cemetery are like, yeah, I'll come home with you. And this is where you get these things, these attachments, these things that come with you and follow you because you've invited it in.

1:42:46 You know, you you talk about like these religious things and stuff. You can't. A demon can't just attach itself to you. You can't be walking down the street and all of a sudden a demon decides to follow you home. Like a Leech in a river, Yeah. You can't have that. This doesn't happen. What happens is it'll it'll wear you down and you start to think, you know, oh man, I'm I'm worthless, you know, you start to have self doubt, you get more and more negative thoughts and eventually, you know, you start to this thing starts eating away at you and picking at you until you let it in. And that's when these things start causing problems and stuff like that. But you can absolutely just let it in. And that's where you have these problems, going to cemeteries in these places. You know, like be very careful with what you ask for. You say, is anyone here that wants to communicate? Well, now you've thrown that door wide open to any range of angelic, demonic, spiritual, anything that's there is going to come forward and find you.

1:43:44 And if you don't do what you need to protect yourself, that's where these things start, you know, becoming attachments and then following you and, and causing problems and stuff. And that's where, like we said, you can sage and it's going to Kick It Out for a day, maybe a week. But this thing's going to come right back because your vibrations, your energy, your life is at that low point where you, you have these problems and that's where you need to work on yourself. So that's what we have to teach people when we go to these locations and stuff is how to manage that. We have a, a new program we launched this year called the affiliate program. And we actually have a whole list of affiliates on our page that we trust that do teaching of how to manage yourself, how to keep your presence clean, how to communicate with the other side properly. Because a lot of these people have empathic or medium abilities, and that's why these other spirits are drawn to them to communicate with them.

1:44:44 And so they're going from house to house to house. And they're like, well, every house that I live in is haunted. Yeah. Because they find you because you're a beacon of light that that's calling out saying, hey, I can see you. Hey, I can hear you. I can understand you. So obviously all these spirits are going to seek you out to try and communicate because they know you can hear them and it's it's up to you as a person to shut that off and learn how to control that so that they can't bother you and you can't have those interactions. Do y'all teach a way to like, end the conversation, say goodbye and like be done with it versus them sucking onto you like a like a dirty, filthy Leech, you know, just carrying you around, you know? Absolutely, yeah.

1:45:30 When we get done with investigations, most of our team do a somewhat of a ritual of saying, you know, I'm leaving now, you do not have my permission to follow me home. You must stay here. You cannot come home with me. If we have a bad encounter with something at a location, we'll also sage and clean, you know, do a full thing like that before we leave or when we get home and stuff or take care of ourselves that way as well. It's very, we've different members of our team have brought stuff home from different locations and we've had to take care of it and deal with it. Like I said, that Kenosha thing, that house, almost every person that went to that house took something home with them and had. See, this is this is what I wanted to bring up when we were talking about the the skinwalkers at the Pentagon. I wanted to to bring up the the hitchhikers. And that's that's a absolutely phenom, like incredible topic, but that's a very author specific topic, especially when you talk about Lou Elizondo and you know, calm Callaher and Lakatsky and and nap.

1:46:42 So I didn't want to, I didn't want to talk about it too much because we probably would have spent just as much time talking about that as you guys just did talking about, you know, your, your paranormal investigations there. But we are coming up here on the two hour mark, Barnaby, so we'll have to hold off on the the the hitchhiker phenomenon for next time. I know I can talk about that for a good hour or so. Before we do go. Do you want to go ahead and let everybody know where they can follow your material at and where they can come in and see your upcoming convention? Absolutely good.

1:47:23 Yeah. So you can find me at Wisconsin, the full state spelled out and then caps so wicaps.com. You can also find us at Wisconsin caps on Facebook and X YouTube and Blue Sky and WI caps on Instagram. You can get all of our links on our website to all of our podcasts and all of our upcoming events. We're going to be at a bunch of stuff over the year as well, library presentations and conventions and all kinds of stuff. You can find all about Capcom as well on our website. Just click on the Capcom picture there or the button itself. You can also find links to our affiliate page that I was speaking about on there and our YouTube and all that stuff right on there.

1:48:12 Awesome. Hey, awesome, awesome job, man. You're you're a great guest. Yeah. Thank you so much. On your show, man, if you guys haven't had a chance, go check out the Paranormal Spectrum. I was a guest on his show sometime last year. We had a great conversation. I've listened to a couple episodes just to kind of check it out before I headed, before I headed over onto his show just to kind of get a feel for things. And I was entertained. So by all means, check it out. And I, I think Skeeter said that he was going to head on down to the caps convention this this year. He was asking if I wanted, if I wanted him to reach out to you. And I was like, you know, what's funny is that I, I was just talking to him today about, about coming on the show. It was, it was literally after I had just reached out to you. It was quite funny.

1:49:07 And I was, so he was. He was asking if if I wanted him to reach out to Chad Lewis. I was like, yeah, sure, absolutely. Yeah, Chad Lewis. Chad will be a speaker at the convention as well. Chad will reach Tracy Brown Junior, Miranda Young, Angela Zabel and Squatch America and. Nice. I've been trying to reach Chad for five years now, So by all means, if we can get Chad on here, I'd be a happy camper. But anyways, Barney, one more time. Thanks. Really man, it's been a pleasure. We'll have to have you back on so we can finish the conversation. Give it a few months so we can get some more information going.

1:49:47 Let's we'll do a post caps debrief. We'll see how it all went for you. Sounds good. Sounds all right man. Anybody have anything else to say before we go? Bro, thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate you answering all my questions and let me just kind of pick your brain. It's pretty dope. It's very rare that we get a researcher that's into so many different things versus just one thing, right? It's always just aliens or cryptos. You all do it. Paranormal, it's the occult, it's whatever it is. But you just allow me to pick your brains, get a load of your experiences and stuff. I really appreciate it and I really look forward to having you back on.

1:50:30 Absolutely. Just let me know. Thank you. For sure. Jeffrey Hell yeah, brothers. There it is. All. Right. Well, I was going I had a bunch of stuff to show off to fans today, but we this one ran a little late. I was going to show you guys the the cover for the book that I've been working on for damn near 6 months now and I was going to show you the cover work for the new podcast, but it's a. Little Yep, suck suck. Next time a. Little late maybe, maybe next weekend everybody, but that means you just have something to look forward to until next time, travelers. This has been another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.

1:51:15 We'll see you right here next weekend where we have another guest lined up for like the 5th or 6th or maybe seventh weekend in a row. I'm not sure. Like I said, I've lost track. I've lost track, so until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork and path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Goodbye everybody. Bye bye. Bye. Right. Hey everybody, thanks for checking out the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out.

1:52:07 And until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Bye.