Snallygaster w/ Sarah Cooper of the American Snallygaster Museum

0:28 At the base of the South Mountain in Frederick County, Maryland lies, the dark damp caves and caverns that riddled. The Integrity of Del G Gap just west of the Sleepy Little Mountain Village of Middletown and egg lies in wait. For over 20 years, it has incubated this fighting for the rest of the world, its mother returned to the place of her birth to continue the call of her ancestors before her time on his plane came to an end. Finally the wait, is over this fully grown monstrosity, will bring Terror in Hell from its thrown in the sky, announcing its arrival with a screech that sends shivers down the spines of those that.

1:12 Remember the horror from over 20 years ago, the creature spreads its limbs for the first time as it emerges from the prison which caused it to go mad. Wings spanning nearly 30 feet, find it hard to spread fully in the cave. So it begins his Ascent into the world. Its first view of the Mountainside that house Generations before it brought a hunger and bloodlust into its matted in mind as it lifted into the air. Propelled by funder is first produced by its wings. get rid of Travelers because the style, I guessed her back, welcome back to infinite radical Welcome back to infinite Rabbit Hole, everybody. My name is Jeremy.

2:16 I'm your host, of course, like, I am 90% of the time. Today we have a special guest which is going to be really awesome. Actually, I like this new thing that we're doing now where we find somebody that actually knows stuff about what we're talking about and, you know, brings a little bit of professionalism to the show because we need that we're not professionals at all. Speaking of on professionals, let's go ahead and bring Jake and Jeff in. Okay, guys, how you guys doing tonight? I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing? You know, I'm dying. I guess, pretty good. Jake. What about you, man? I've been horribly insulted.

2:57 I'm doing awful. Thanks. Well, you don't deserve it. So, take it. That's it. We really don't have a lot of stuff to introduce because you guys know these guys, you guys know me as well but what you don't know. But you may not know is our guest. She is the owner of the American Stanley, gaster Museum and Frederick County Maryland. Her name is Sarah Cooper. Sarah. Welcome to the infant Rabbit Hole. Hi, thank you for having me on. This is going to be a lot of fun. I hope so. It will I can guarantee you were either going to sound really awesome and you're going to be like wow these guys are great or it's going to be entertaining because we're going to sound like shit one of the two.

3:42 Okay let's go for awesome then we'll try. All right real quick before we jump into the story of the snallygaster which is the topic of the night. Tell us a little bit about you and the American style, gaster Museum. Okay so my name is Sarah Cooper. I live here in Frederick County Maryland and I am in my professional life, a critical care nurse. I work in the emergency room and in my hobby flash hyper fixation life, an amateur folklorist and Cryptid Enthusiast and I have put together a collection of art artifacts newspaper articles.

4:26 Like pop culture, references games, you name it. It all around our state Cryptid. The snallygaster. That's awesome. So if somebody wants to check out your Museum, we'll start with all my. Where can they go so online? They can go to snallygaster. Museum.com, I'm most active on Instagram at Americans now League Astor Museum. We also have a Facebook page if you just search snallygaster Museum, but I am not Good at Facebook. So that's our online presence. We have a tick talk to but I'm listen, I can't try.

5:09 I can't do it too much. We're in the exact same boat. No worries. We have this guy, Jeff, who's actually one of our co-host. He's sometimes he's an asshole that said, hey, let me get control of your Tick Tock and I was like, yeah, sure. Go for it and guess what hasn't done a single thing with it. We'll listen in my I defense I already got banned twice from Tick-Tock on my own account. I didn't want to do that to the infinite rabbit. Also Tick Tock is very intimidating. I think he's just lazy but that's just, they don't like me, bro. I post one thing in there like band. It's because you're telling the truth, dude. They can't handle it. Thank you. Anyways, real quick.

5:52 I just of course I went to the American style, I guess or Museum website. And the first thing I like to do Is check out merch and I see that there's a link right at the top for style. Yes, or Museum encrypted merch. I'll say you have some awesome stuff here that he I'm gonna definitely grab one of these official first run Museum teas as well as the star Cruiser Studios. Now, I guess, RT that. Yeah, the star Cruiser Studios. One is my favorite. The artist also did it in like a white on black design and it's absolutely beautiful. It's completely awesome. Awesome. That's probably gonna be the one I'm going to get. And then, yes, before we started recording, we're talking about this Teddy's, snallygaster one. I'm definitely gonna put this over him, my mantle. Yeah, that's a great friend.

6:40 You see it? Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. It's all how awesome. I'm definitely snagging. One of these for the studio. They got big ones to 24 by 36. Yeah, one in my house, it's pretty great. That's awesome. I think. Jake will look really good in this, baby. Snallygaster onesie. I was going to get one for my new baby but chain with a good very good. Yeah, Jake look great. I will I'll get it and I'll cram myself inside of it and put it on Tick, Tock, and get his band. No, that'll solve that problem right away. That probaby, Sally Guster one that's by conjure dust designs on Instagram, my friend Danner, he does like these really cute Griff kids so I put that on all the baby stuff and it's just it's so precious.

7:28 I can't Stand it. Yeah, it's not. It's going to be precious when I smashed my legs the armholes, and how I have so precious. So Sarah, I have to know what, what brought you to start a museum on the snow yesterday. So it's it's kind of, its kind of, depressing, whatever. So, when March 2020, when covid, hit and everything blew up and went to shit I was working in inner-city Baltimore in the ER and I was in my third trimester of pregnancy it was like really scary we didn't have like enough PPE like it was really really terrifying and so I spent every day just like am I gonna die?

8:14 Like what's gonna happen and watching all these people died and it was like freaking me out you know is the baby going to be okay. All that stuff and I just got like really I decided like I got to fixate on something else and started going really really like well like your podcast down. The Abbott whole of snallygaster stuff. And I got such a big collection going and I did all this research and I was like I love like Roadside Attraction museums like just weird out their stuff and I visited almost every Cryptid Museum except for the big one in Maine. And I just really really love what they're doing and I was like dude I could do that like I'm really good at researching. I can I can make this happen and it just kind of went from there and became like my thing to get me through this like very dark time in In my career, and in my life and it kind of pulled me through it, it's been a really big source of inspiration and happiness for me, man, that's lucky, that's lucky with those places are open. End of that was really awesome to hear. I'm sorry.

9:14 He had to go through all that I've been to Baltimore. I know that's not a pretty Place sometimes. Most times all the time Baltimore rough, but that's really cool. I'm really happy that you found something and I'm happy that it had ended up being the snail yesterday, because you make a really good guest for tonight. And it's been a great like being in the Cryptid community in the cryptozoology community and meeting people like a sure. If you guys had on your show it's been really cool to make friends with you know like-minded weirdos and get to hang out with them at events and you know it's been really awesome. Couple years for me. Love weirdos. Yeah, absolutely, that's why I'm friends with these guys. Certain types of weirdos.

9:58 There's some weirdos that it's like mmmm did you were talking about it earlier? You're like, yeah, there's some people that I wouldn't get one within 100 miles of me or something like that. It's just like, I mean, I I've gotten a few that are like, let me send you, like, I was dead. You know, I was like, oh, yeah, like let me send you some Bigfoot footage that I got and I was like, all right, dude cool for the 20 seconds of bushes that you filmed it was like every day at 11:11 and I'm calling this man out so he already knows, you know, texting me like 11:11 make a wish bro, come on. I can't. Can you send me some of your hair and making a dollar?

10:39 We can't with you. All right. Well, you won't have that problem from us, so good, it's good. Yeah. Well we may be weird but we're not creeps. Yeah yeah we'll go to that. Yeah. Alright so we think jump into some snow gasser. That's a yes. Just go ahead and say yes, everybody. I don't know who were talking. Yeah, everybody. All right. I'll start bringing her in that. Okay. All right. A letter by a man, from cast out, Ohio appeared in the Middletown Valley, register February, 12th 1909. The claim of letter was that the man had written star. Horrendous monster called The snallygaster Traveling East, just afterwards, witness lifting a full-grown man off the ground. Sucking his blood completely out of his body and discarding the corpse as, if it were a rag doll, he wrote the letter to warn those east of cats town of the creature and its evils soon after the letter was printed in the register people from Frederick and Washington counties Maryland, as well as Shepherdstown West, Virginia began reporting sightings of an enormous flying creature.

11:54 The first person to give a description of the creature was a man by the name of James Harding. He described it as having Enormous bat-like Wings, a long, sharp beaks claws like steel and one eye in the middle of its forehead. The creature was known to sound off with a blood-curdling screech. But the most noticeable feature was that it appeared to have tentacles trailing it as it flew with some claiming that the tentacles are growing out of its mouth and others stating that they were attached to various other parts of its body, mostly the chin and the forehead. Everyone described it as being Dragon Lee, and that it was always looking for its next meal. As Theory spread about the origins and nature of the creature, the snallygaster became a warning to those who didn't obey the rules, their parents and Elders for a span of, just over two decades that witnessed little to no Stanley, gaster activity, the creature became the boogeyman of West. Maryland parents will use the threat of the snallygaster to ensure their children were inside and ready for supper by dark and to instill fear.

13:05 We're into those that still demanded guidance and their younger more rebellious years. So Sarah. How bad the fuck that up? That was actually perfect. You totally nailed it? Yeah, that was really good. That was a great summary of the of the first big flap of sightings she said, it'd take you hear it. She said flap just like Asher's. We talked about flaps for like two hours with Asher's was great. I also talked about flaps with Asher's far too long, at many events. Asher's, I love her. Do you have anything to add to anything?

13:48 So, yeah. So the first big flap of snallygaster sightings in 1909 are really interesting part of American history. As you talked about their was the, the murder, you know, that everyone said was the snallygaster but there's some really interesting parts and and I've really gone through a lot of these articles. And when you look at the areas of town with the snallygaster was or some of the coded language that they use when talking about the snallygaster, there is a lot of of racist undertones where people took this piece of folklore and they started to use it in a really negative way.

14:36 So they would use things like being carried away in the night or they would. It's kind of like how people have these S&S dog. Whistles today, you know, Pepe the Frog and all that kind of stuff. They were doing this weird thing to try and intimidate black members of the community. And it led me down kind of a weird Rabbit Hole of Lumberjack creatures. And and this intersection of folklore and racism and people twisting these, these kind of cool stories to be something really negative and try to You know, instill fear in people in their community. So I think it's really interesting that we have this really cool thing that was innocent to begin with and then you kind of see it change throughout the new cycle to become something super negative.

15:28 And by the time we get to the 30s with the snallygaster, you see a lot more of that. And it's very telling about who's writing the article, whether they're being silly and goofy and talking about this, you know, funny piece of folklore or They're trying to send a message to scare other people and it's something that I'm researching pretty heavily and I will eventually write something about. But but that's, it's kind of a Nikki part of the history of this Cryptid. And I think that if we go into a lot of other Cryptids will find that there's some similar themes going on especially from that time period. Yeah, I do get into it a little bit more later on, but that, that's very good point to bring up.

16:10 Is that, when you're listening to the stories of the Stanley, casters, to remember, the time period that this happened, this was shortly after the Civil War, right? When the first incarnations of the, snallygaster really started hitting the scene. So as you will see, later on in the night, we'll see how that kind of kind of evolves into what Sarah was talking about and I'll be able to get a little deeper into it then. Guys, do you guys have any questions for sir? Hmm, not yet, Jim's. Not gonna have any questions because we're not talking about like tinfoil hat stuff to. This is probably true. I also have no questions and we will get into some conspiracy once we get to the 30s. Don't you worry, there's some men in black associated with the snallygaster.

16:57 That I would love to discuss. I like that kind of stuff. For sure. Well then let's get through all this boring stuff. Let's all right. Let's move on. Let's talk about the orange Origins a little bit. And again, forgive me, I have a cough today and you're always sick, shut up Jake. Alright anyways, The Original Stories of the schneller Geist, a German term that translates to Quick Spirit comes from the original German. Settlers who came to the Mid-Atlantic Appalachian Mountains as far back as the 1730's although the first records of an unknown flying creature in the area was from Virginia. The Stanley Gaster soon. Found a more permanent home in, Maryland, the original German, Legend tells of a creature that would be known for Mischief such as knocking trinkets off The Mantel and creating unpleasant smells it description.

17:50 Not really matching the new description of the blood sucking and corpse throwing relative of Western Maryland. But when the new Stanley gaster first appeared with German settlers, the new Mountain folk found themselves painting seven pointed stars on the out wall of their Barnes to keep so-called chicken eaters away. It was clear that the snallygaster of the new world was much different than the schneller Geist of the old. You got anything to add there? Sir. Oh, that's so awesome that you mentioned it. I feel like I get through a lot of podcasts and then I'm like, oh wait I didn't talk about the Barns and then I yeah I'm glad that we've gotten there. So the seven-pointed stars are one of the coolest pieces of snallygaster history and and they do kind of go toward Pennsylvania, Dutch, folklore, and hex magic, which is one of my favorite things ever, but it's really neat because when you're driving out into The Maryland, Pennsylvania border.

18:49 You can actually see some of these still around and it just is so fantastic to see them. And to learn about all the different, heck stars because that was, you know, the snallygaster ward and there's fertility and peace, and abundance. And all these really cool different symbols that they use. But I think it's really neat that there was a symbol for a Cryptid. Like, that's so cool to me and that I can drive around and still see it to this day. If you're ever in the area, definitely keep an eye out for it because it's one of my favorite things and they're actually very beautiful. So you dig it by writing move up. Demons, Jake Tremont. Well witchcraft.

19:31 Yeah, I don't know if Jeremy and Jake if you guys remember, but we kind of went over the seven-pointed star. When we did the Georgia Guidestones episode a bit too. We did you're right. We went over a lot of stuff with seven. What did, what did you bring up about seven pointed star another episode? Oh man, bro, I can't even remember. Come on, Guess. He brings it up just to say, oh, I can't remember. I'm trying to pull up the file, so I could look through the notes, like, we're gonna remember, right? I was hoping you would because now I got to dig for it. Alright, well, we'll see it. We'll see if he can find it and we'll come back to it. No, I gave up right. There's make something up though. Just like make something up for fun, so it's a star. It's got seven points which is one more than Six and one less than 8, one for each day of the week. And that's the really deep.

20:29 There's Monday, if you didn't know, Thursday, the the Tuesday point, the one that faces up so yeah. Oh yeah, we wouldn't know them. I'm saying, you knew the the rich history behind the seven-pointed star but not not Thursday which would mostly recognized throughout the last hundred years. What they can get it was brilliant but a lot of people don't know is that you don't read a star, like you read a clock, you have to start at the 10:30 position. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Did you learn that in the navy? No, not at all. You could have lied to me and said yes I would have believed.

21:11 Yes that's where I was. I was a Navy pilot training out. There you go. Thinking dog training. Yeah, exactly the second he said that he was at station. I was like their egos being a Pog again Says the other one. Yeah, what. All right, I mean a person other than grunt. Yeah. All right. I'm I'm gonna I don't understand. Yeah, it's dumb. It's dumb there's a whole story behind it but we get to dive into the snow again. All right let's talk about the Beast by many names. The earliest articles mentioned of the creature may go back to 1902 where The Frederick News-Post claims that the first written report of a monster was Printed but the exact Source cannot be found and although the post claims that the first reports are from 1902, the post itself, did not raid article on the creature that year.

22:04 But the earliest name for an unknown creature in the area which many believe to be the snallygaster was called the crosswise Yeah. What's up guys? Kutis gasket will go gasps, Coos, crosswise gas cutest? This is a little funny because American folklore does mention a creature called the gas Kutis, but the descriptions are very different. The traditional gas cutest, goes back to 1840, in this said to be a creature with four legs with two legs, on one side, longer than the two on the other. The reason for this is due to its need and nature to climb up steep hills and mountains in a sideways stride.

22:48 So I honestly don't know what to make of this one. But I found two sources that claim the snallygaster was originally called crosswise guess cute. This and that you can find reports earlier than 1909, if you look for this name instead, but you're blowing my mind. I didn't know that. How do you spell that? You're, I'm like, amazed gyaaaa s CU t. U.s. all right, cool and look into this. So there's different types of guys, guess Kunis's. The snallygaster was considered one of the crosswise once only to tie your tie. So over the years, the snallygaster would go by many names when the German settlers came down from Pennsylvania. Their superstitions mended with the accents of the locals and the name transformed over time from the Little snow Geist to smell like a stir.

23:45 And then finally, to the snallygaster that we are familiar with today, although some newspapers attempted to create their own names for the creature that never stuck. Some of these names were the go-devil. The V, boville lupus, OCTA lupus and giganta lope to giganta Lotus J, GB a little whatever. I don't, I like it time you met, it's so good. So Sarah, do you have anything to add to the Beast of many names? I, well, I'm amazed, because I did not know about the, what's the gas cutest that's like, kind of blowing my mind because when I'm looking at it, the first thing that was even close to a snallygaster in like print was from this book, from the 1800's, called South Mountain magic and it's not even close really it's like a A group of snakes that are like stuck together and then like Slither into a cave, but the description and the coloring and everything is kind of like closed.

24:52 For those little are very young, plug your ears ear muffs everybody. A ball of snakes is actually an orgy. Yes. So you know you're doing the thing? Wait is that like a term? Like how a bunch of crows are a murderer or they literally Slam together, did you guys learn that in the Navy too? I mean that's common knowledge to people that study seven points cars. I mean, how does the sailors? Listen, Sarah, okay. Ball. I was always told that we just came out of Davy Jones Locker. I didn't know that it was like that. I was told that I was a piece of shit. Literally thought I'd just follow fell off someone's asshole.

26:05 Well yeah after you guys were done then plug ball in here when you're the only thing to do I'm gonna be using that as a term and people like they're stupid. If they don't know what that means, I'm really have you make a Parody song to Free Fallin by Tom Petty but POG Ballin please. I literally need that in my life. It's going to literally be our first take time for you. You're good, guess you're fun. I'm so far off the rails. Well, since we're already off the rails, I don't know why, but when you first said the Beast of many names, the first thing I thought of that, just spray it in my head that took me back. Was Monty Python, my Monty Python's quest for the Holy Grail and it was the great black beast of aw. And I had to look it up and and silently Watch the watch the clip on YouTube.

27:07 Yeah, that's it great. I'm happy that we're all focused on the subject and I think she is yeah. Alright, let's move along because because this is, this is going quick. It's good. Hog balls. I can't wait hog ball. It is patreon only. All right, let's talk about I don't want to slap people, I can't take it anymore. That's all compose ourselves. Jeremy, every trick some water.

27:47 Do I have to get up and get a bottle water? I'll do that during the next stupid thing. We say, the first noticeable sighting came by a man named George Jacobs, who claimed to not only have spotted the creature while out hunting. But also, He had taken a shot at it to his amazement. The bullies simply ricocheted off to his amazement. The bullet, simply ricocheted off the skin of the cell. Yesterday, the attempt at killing the creature did not fare well with it, as it then turned to chase Jacobs with attempts at biting at his neck. Also in 1909 the strange story of the snallygaster, Soul on the train station became well-known. Ed Brown was a railway worker in Emmitsburg. Was attacked by the creature as its swoop down and grab dead. By his suspenders, another man working that day jumped and grabbed mr.

28:39 Brown by his leg and the suspenders snapped, ultimately saving at Browns life. But of course, this encounter would intend that easily as the snallygaster dove back down. Once again, grab it Ed. Another man jumped in, and the three together did their best to fight off the creature. Witnesses to the event claim that the scuffled with ol snaily lasted for almost an hour towards the latter, half the attack yet another man branded a pistol and began shooting at flying monstrosity. It was at this point that one of the creature's abilities were discovered as it began to blow fire out of its nostrils. After this event, the famous Nellie gaster of Western Maryland, would not be seen for another 23 years. All right?

29:29 Sarah, here's your chance. I call bullshit. I need everyone to know that this is the story is bullshit. All right before, right? Hey, I've heard it before. And well, first of all, Ed was naked because the snallygaster ripped, his clothes off. So, I just want everyone to know that the other ones jumped in for some competitive. Tickle. Yeah, yeah. So I think something else was going on at the end. Pittsburgh train station and I'm not judging or anything. But like you guys did not fight off a fire-breathing dragon. I think they fought off a one-eyed Dragon of some kind but it was not a smelly gaster. Been somebody walked in on them and they were like oh knows. It was really guessing.

30:23 They're all just grab it at it. Like in the boys. Yeah, it does seem like a ridiculous. I don't know why they're doing that out in Carroll County. But you know what? It's fine. We love them. Anyway, now that story is totally ridiculous and it's the only account that I saw where the snallygaster was breathing, fire. It just seems a little ridiculous to me, like, for so many reasons. But yeah, no. It's definitely got some red flags. Yeah, hardcore. Yeah. So, we'll just move along then some good. Yeah. I'm not gonna give these people any more attention. Tension. Good. Fuck them. And fuck them. I'm gonna make a diorama of it though. With a naked man.

31:06 For like the adults-only section of the museum. Perfect. I can't wait to see you. Hmm, we're going to be up there. We're going to be you guys. You guys are going to model for it. Well, okay. So The snallygaster became so famous that the Smithsonian Jeff loves in requested. A specimen, the military senton meant to deal with the creature. Teddy Roosevelt self hope to hot one for a trophy and National Geographic was said to be mounting an expedition to capture a photo of the now-famous creature. Scott.

32:00 The local newspapers told of one man even claimed to witness the creature speaking in which it said, and quote by dry. I haven't had a good drink since I was killed in the Battle of Chickamauga. This of course led many to believe that the creature was, a Reincarnation of a soldier that died in the Civil War. Man, they believe that crap. Absolutely, they ate it all up. Oh man, they must have been bored. Oh yeah, they were really bored. But that story well I think you read it and way to a dignified of a voice because I hear it in like what happened on a good drink. Like, it sounds really dumb to me. Louisiana is my cans blood This is not the day. Throat is so raw so shut up Jake. That's right.

33:11 His favorite pastime. Tonight. Anyways, let's talk about j.d. if you are familiar with our two-part episodes, on the history of the Jersey Devil, then you know that we mentioned the Stanley, gaster in that Series, in January of 1909 the Jersey Devil went on a rampage that resulted in schools and Mills closing down due to how many sightings in the tax that being reported after this sightings and attacks by JD all but ceased So is it any coincidence that when the week of Terror on the border of New Jersey and Pennsylvania ended and a short time later the snallygaster pops up heavily in Western Maryland.

33:57 Could the snallygaster and the Jersey Devil be one in the same. But there are more similarities than just that between old JD and snaily similar physical structures are found between the snallygaster and the Jersey Devil as well. Physical features, such as, occasionally being seen standing by pedaling bat-like Wings, a blood-curdling, scream, long, skinny legs, and whip-like tail. But the similarities don't stop there. The Stanley gaster is said to have been seen for the first time in 1735 the same year as the birth of the lead stable, the Native American tribe known as the Lenape once populated the Delaware River area.

34:43 According to the Lenape website, they claimed to have been in that area, thousands of years, before the arrival of the new world, explorers the Delaware River is what stands as the border between the states of new. Jersey and Pennsylvania. And most of the border between the states of Delaware and New Jersey, the Lenape refer to this massive River as possible using, which translates to the place of dragons attached to the Delaware River. On the Pennsylvania. Side of Philadelphia is a tributary known as poquessing Creek. Only about 200 miles away from Frederick County Maryland and is yet another name referring to dragons the Lynette a tribe told stories and had Legends of for spirits that were told to the Quaker, people of West Jersey. They would hold ceremonies honoring their Forest, God, known as msync.

35:38 They describe this deity as dear like, with wings of hide at the time of the Quaker, arrival Bulan that bay did not have a concept of a devil or Satan, but they did believe that good and bad spirits exist in the world. Are these hints to a much older version of the Jersey Devil? Legend been what most people are familiar with the natives. Have a reason for referring to these places by these names. And of course, could this be additional proof that the Jersey Devil in the snallygaster might be the same thing and could this be the origin of both Legends? And, of course, for more info on the Jersey Devil.

36:19 Please check out our one-year anniversary, special and back-to-back episodes title Jersey, Devil, 12-story in Jersey Devil to encounters. Sarah, I'm so excited that you brought this up. This is one of my favorite theories, the going back to Native folklore and kind of seeing where these creatures originated is really interesting. And then kind of trying to figure out where that mashed It up with immigrants and colonizers who came over here. There's another one called The Piazza Bird that's from Mississippi into Illinois. That's a very similar kind of preacher.

37:01 And I love to think that there were these, you know, Dragon like bees flying around in the United States at some point before it was, you know, the United States. And I'm actually giving a talk on this exact Topic at the Jersey Devil, Fable Fest in May, Hi. So, I'm super stoked to bust that out because it's one of my favorite theories. That's awesome. And I also love that school was canceled because of Jersey devil attacks, and I wish it would happen again. The Piazza bird is the one that I brought up during the Thunderbird that was the one that was painted on the the cave wall and stuff or on the wall of the is going to. I thought that something really Urban now.

37:41 Yeah, which lace looking at the pictures now of the painting or the re-creation of the painting rather because it's been destroyed, it would certainly have some features that are similar and on this, on this show, Show Sarah. We put a lot of weight into Native American lore granted. You know, every culture on Earth at one point had their own form of Mythology, but when it comes to the reality of certain animals or beings or whatever, you know, who would better know what was there than the people that lived outside and survived outside 24/7? T5, right.

38:31 So There is a there is a line right there of you know, where what was mythology, what was real. We kind of put Bigfoot into both of those categories. Depending there you go, there's the Bigfoot drugs, ability for the episode, but we put it into kind of both those categories. They're certainly certainly a lot of Mythology around that though it certainly could be real although not verified by science yet in a body recovery or whatever. But I like how You Jeremy. You said that the river was named names in that blue. Yeah. What was the translation? The place of dragons.

39:13 That's it. Okay. Yeah. So I like that. I think that's pretty cool. I mean I personally believe that at some point humans and dinosaurs live together do this who believe the dinosaurs ever existed. Wow well yeah Jeff hasn't come and blown our minds yet. That was supposed to be two weeks ago and Dragons. Existed in my opinion. Dinosaurs, I don't know about all. How could you say that dragons exist dinosaurs did? It will get into it when the time comes my friend, don't you worry? Well, listen having gone to a very enriching public school education in Texas. I'm going to let you guys know that dragons definitely did exist but that the devil put dinosaurs bones on the earth to trick us.

39:59 Could be fact. I would history teacher / gym, coach would never lie. I know about that. Definitely, but I mean dragons are biblical, thousands and thousands of years ago. I mean that's the best translation that could be pulled out was the word Dragon a whole bunch of times so I don't know maybe. Yeah. I mean I like that. I like that there's it's not just because the Germans coming over and bringing all their crazy fairy tales they had. Which I still meet people today, that have no idea that all the Disney movies are based off of, like, German folklore and fairytales and they're super dark, you know, very entertaining and pretty crazy. So the fact that they came over here and they had their version of the snallygaster and their stories about, I mean, doesn't surprise me whatsoever.

40:53 But I was tickled to hear that there was a native folklore around it because that to me puts more weight into this thing. Being based off of a real Something versus just so. Okay yeah. So these people that were really dang good at making up stories to scare the crap out of their kids. Had another story to scare the crap out their kids, great. And uh, so I salute Lee, that's pretty cool, enjoy that thoroughly. And if you go with a native lore to you did get the because the snallygaster has the do I owe Ordway? Oh however, you'd like to say it, you know, Nemesis situation. And that's a dog, man. And there are, I don't know if you guys have done dog, man, but there's like a lot of ties between dog men and Native burial sites. So I find that kind of interesting as well that it also plays into the that part of the mythology. But no, that's some really cool stuff. I also like when the native lore ties in it adds that depth to it and that more believable death that if they were talking about it way back then and we're still talking about it. Now maybe there is something there. No, I'm totally on board with that. Hey buddy, bear with us while we take this quick break. In 1932 the snallygaster was back and sightings were popping up all over the country.

42:22 Well-known Explorer author. And radio journalist Lowell Thomas was even reported on the creature and the many sightings due to the Gap. In time between the flaps of the creature, many believe that the ones that were showing up in 32, were The Offspring of the one from 1909 and the attack on the train station in Emmitsburg may have spelled the end for the OG snaily. Some even came up with the idea that there may have been a nest somewhere hidden in South Mountain, that protect the eggs, for a lengthy, 23-year incubation period, yes, 23 years does seem kind of silly. So did this creature really come from The Brood of the original?

43:05 Well, there was one major difference with this creature. It seemed to be able to change colors. It will even with that and it's description. It was thought that this creature was Indeed in offspring of the famous 1909, Stone yester, the headline of the Morning, Herald of Hagerstown. Is that how you pronounce it by the way? Hagerstown, yes. It's Hagerstown, but we call it Hagar's Tucky around here, but we're right on in Pax River, we had Smits. Southern Maryland and breads. The headline of the Morning, Herald of Hagerstown on December. Twenty first, nineteen thirty two red death of snellie gaster is reported reports. Differ assume that the Thirsty creature wasn't craving blood this evening.

43:55 And instead, was in you something with a little more of a Alcoholic content, this led the monster to action can counties Frog Hollow which was a hot spot for moonshiners being attracted by a 2500 gallon moonshine bet the smelly gas turbine came inebriated and fell into the mash of the gigantic. Still the operation and body of the creature was discovered by prohibition agents, George T, Danforth of the Hagerstown agency and Deputy Charles E, KU schwa. Of the Sheriff's Office agent Danforth was quoted in Middletown Valley. Register saying, quote, imagine are feeling when our eyes Feast them, monsters emerged in the liquor, vat. Yeah.

44:42 So those guys I don't have any record of them being real and I have theories that those were actually Men In Black. That went to shut up the Moonshiners and then went rogue because they did these interviews and then kind of fell off the face of the Earth and then inexplicably. Probably used a bunch of dynamite to blow up the moon shine outfit rather than repurpose the metal, which would have been the more reasonable thing to do. So I have like a lot of weird feelings about that whole part of the story. You know. It doesn't make any sense that you'd see this giant, you know, Amazing Dragon creature and the just feel like now we're going to blow it up and they were all these rewards out for it and everything else. It's just it's super weird.

45:27 I feel like there was some kind of cover-up that went wrong Song sounds like something the Smithsonian would do. That's where all the Men in Black. Come from come on Jeff Jarrett a minute. Hold up. Say stuff. Well I was just going to agree about the Smithsonian being full of shit but then she hit me with the Men in Black, come from the Smithsonian and part of me feels like that's a joke and the other part of me is like, wait a minute. No. Do they want to control the narrative? They want to control history? No no for real. Like it just made me think about that and I was like okay because you think they get all those artifacts I'm under the The belief that history is a complete lie. So I'm right there with you, I'm with it. So Jeff is the host of another podcast that he does on conspiracies.

46:14 And I can totally tell he's going to do an entire episode on this Smithsonian. Men In Black connection. Do a job. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean I got to dig into it but it sounds like something up. My alley, for sure. I wonder if they got If they took the story of the snallygaster and Loosely turned it into the Jeepers Creepers movie. That's what I was thinking too. Because the every 23 years and stuff. Yeah. Bad. That he'll think it was. What's that term Jeff? Where they put stuff in the programming, predictive programming. So you start talking about this shit and they start saying that you're an idiot just like the ancient alien Theory where the Flintstones had kazoo a little alien that flew around and helping out with technology.

47:03 So that when you talk about Ancient Aliens, helping out people build, you know, like Stonehenge and Machu Picchu, and stuff like that. That you look like an idiot and you're getting that reference from from Flint stone. That's Flintstone's. Also had a series of books about the snallygaster. I saw that on your webpage was really awesome creeping me out mmm-hmm and isn't it weird that The Flintstones are still around? Round even though they're show isn't that, you can still find Flintstone vitamins. Tell me a kid, who knows who the fuck Flintstones are right now? Is it near the theory that the Flintstones are actually living on the earth? And it's the same time period as The Jetsons but like the redistribution of wealth has caused such a massive shift in technology that like all the rich people like The Jetsons are like Jeff Bezos and then the rest of us would be The Flintstones. So there is a huge Theory there.

47:55 Ralph, we're going down, we're going down a rabbit hole now, but they did that crossover episode Between The Jetsons in The Flintstones and that that was like the big birth of that. I don't have time to go down that rabbit hole right now, but that, that is a definitely come on back next week and we'll talk about the Jetsons, right? I love those. Kinds of theories are like when they say that the, like Terminator and Matrix is all the same universe or what was the other one, Fallout and Skyrim or the same universe and Snowpiercer and Willy Wonka, and the Chocolate Factory, the same universe. That one, that's my fave. I don't I can't see how that's tied in though.

48:36 Oh, you got to go down the rabbit hole. I'm telling you right now, I will as it turns out, we are great explorers of the rabbit hole. So we do. So yeah, when we're not Prague bowling, we're storing it into the rabbit hole reputation is destroyed with her. She was like, Oh, you mean all those pod Ballers over there? No, Phantom, hog ball. All right, let's go. Going in 1837 the first ever major highway was completed and span from Vidalia, Illinois to Cumberland Maryland. During the years after completion of the Highway Cumberland, became an area flooded with homeless, and criminals on the run, every person who had a reason to leave from Illinois.

49:25 Indiana, Ohio, West, Virginia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky hitched rides along the National Road and settled where the highway ended in Allegheny County. County Maryland the two counties immediately, east of the end of the road. Are you guessed it? Washington and Frederick County's home of the most dense sightings of this Telecaster. It is due to this reason that many believe that the creature was fabricated by the local governments, breast to dissuade those who wish to escape their past from building a new life in the hills and mountains of Western Maryland. Another reason many believe that the snallygaster may have been made up was because the end of the Civil War, brought many changes to many areas in the South and Western, Maryland is no exception.

50:14 In fact, many freed slaves, came up through the hills and Maryland and along the National Road to search for new lives in the northern states, 45 years, removed, and 45 years of people that were none too happy at that freed slaves were passing. Through their towns, may have given birth to the say Lancaster as a deterrent for those using the value in between the hills as passed to a better life. The evidence to back this up comes with the first known victim of a Stanley. Gaster Black Man by the name of Bill, give Herson was thrown off a hillside to his death and the sequential headline of the register the day after reads. Quote, the colored people are in great Danger, So that's what I was talking about.

51:03 How we'll dive a little bit more into that hope that ties into what you were talking about another. Yeah, it's very much like the the black Boogeyman, like, just a threatening way to keep black people down and in line and stuff saying, like the boogeyman will get you that's that's jacked. It is awful. It's an awful part of the history. I saw a couple different sources on this and I was trying to do the math when it came to like historical dates and stuff to find out which one was true. Now I found one that said that they were trying to keep you know ex-slaves out and that they were trying to keep present slaves in.

51:46 So the slaves that were in these counties, they were trying to keep them from trying to leave and they were saying that any A slave caught trying to leave will be snatched up by the snail gaster. And then there were conflicting reports that were saying know what's actually happening is that people are ex-slaves are coming through the valleys in between the mountains and using them as highways to get to the North. And we don't want them in our towns. So, if you come over here, this now. Yes. So I don't know if it was a mixture of both or if it was one or the other, but by dou by By date alone.

52:27 And when all the slavery should have been abolished I lean towards the one where they were trying to keep them away. So that's why I included that I I would say it's a little bit of both because you don't, you know, if you're these people if you want to subjugate people and you want to keep people enslaved, the last thing that you want is the people who you are enslaving to meet people who are making their way to Freedom, you know, that's going to be everyone's going to turn on you. You're going to have rebellion and I It's a little bit of both and it was it was a fear tactic that I'm happy to say.

53:08 I don't believe it worked. I found, I have to look it up again, but I found a recording of this man telling the story of some enslave people who were told this lie and they actually made it to Freedom anyway. So, they like escaped fully thinking that this dragon is going to come down and like, eat them. And I think that's one of the most Most like badass heroic things I've ever heard because like in those times, you know, it was totally believable that that was going to happen and to, to want your freedom so badly and to do something that brave it's incredible. And because of that really ugly history with the snallygaster, I wanted to kind of reclaim it, and make it a thing that like could not become a racist, dog whistle again.

54:00 So, I thought, you know, if I If I have this interest in it and I present all this information and, you know, I kind of feel, I make myself the person that you go to when you want to talk about it. It's a lot harder for people to co-opt it and turn it into something ugly again, because you're going to have to go through me and all of the Cryptid weirdos that, you know, have have come around this community and, and supported this whole movement. So that was like a big pull for me. Just, you know, seeing the way that memes and media and things like that can get turned into something ugly so quickly. And, you know, it was happening, even in 1909 so people don't change much. You guys got anything else out here, sir. I agree with the way to kind of, save the topic from being being used as a tool for evil again.

54:51 However, it was initially intended with keeping ex-slaves away or keeping current slaves in. It's infuriating. It's a truly the way that people over just history in general have treated others as just absolutely disgusting. Yeah, at times I mean, I'm trying to lead it into something positive and to make the snallygaster kind of a more Progressive icon. Then he was previously, I think it's kind of cool that there's a 23-year you know, hatch cycle, Incarnation whatever because I like to believe, you know, every new finale. Gaster learns from the mistakes of the Ones.

55:34 And, you know, that, so our next hatch cycle, I believe would be like 2024 and that's an ally. Gaster is just going to be like, super liberal and awesome and it's going to be president and like, you know, to be great. So like for, you know, he's learning from his mistakes, smelly for Perez, awesome. All right, let's talk about TC Harbaugh according to Susan fairs book Mysteries and lore of Western Maryland. The author of the original letter claiming to be from a man who witnessed the staunch death of a man by the hand of the snallygaster went by the name of Thomas Chalmers Harbaugh AKA TC. Harbaugh Harbaugh was an author of over 650 novel spanning from fiction to historical which most featured his hometown of Middletown, Maryland. As a child, TC was moved to cast down Ohio by his parents but he always loved Middletown and visited heavily throughout his lifetime.

56:34 Many of his books were written about the area and one of his best friend's was the editor of the Middletown Valley register. During the time that he sent the letter into many different newspapers in the area. TC also spent a healthy amount of time as a contributor for the newspaper. It was just after the first flap of Snail gaster, sightings that hard while returned to his beloved Maryland where he grew old poor and sick and in 1924 died after being sent back to Ohio to be Therefore, by his family were all of these sightings of the strange creature. That flooded, the Skies of Western Maryland, really just delusional residents of the area clinging onto a piece written in the local newspaper by a man who was famous for writing fictional, novels. Or was this something that was produced solely by the press and local authorities to keep certain people away from the area or was there actually something that came down from New Jersey, the temporarily torture, a different area for a little.

57:34 I'll but was it something completely different? Maybe something that many believe was created into this world, by the collective, thoughts and fear of those in the area. What do you guys think? Oh my gosh, okay, I'm really excited that you said that because I was like, I muted myself, because I was good. Getting too excited. I'm like, because the snallygaster is a tulpa. That's exactly what it is. They like chopped into the collective unconscious and fears of all these people. And that's why you have the kind of Of cool folklore native Legend, dragon, and then you have this ugly Twisted version that was out to do bad things. So I absolutely love that idea. What's Adam opener at OPA is something that is brought into existence by thought of our, by way of powerful thought or the prayer and, and wish fulness of large group of people. CJ would know more about this than I Oh, that's kind of his thing.

58:35 I'm not too familiar with tulpas but basically if enough people believe in it, it it forces itself into existence. Yeah, that's exactly right. Or if there's enough effort put into it. I believe that idea 100%, I'm with that real quick. Before we get into final thoughts, just want to touch on two more things, one the delay, 0. Dwayne Bowe is an upright walking cane. It was very similar features as the popular dog man spotted throughout North America and other like anthropic T. Type creatures of many other countries around the world. The dwaesseo is said to be the mortal enemy of the snallygaster and instead to attack the say Lancaster on site, with the first tales of the creature, dating back to 1944 and the biggest flap of sightings being from 1965 some theorize a way out.

59:30 Oh, and snaily gaster are somehow tied together, but that is all, we will be talking about in terms of the Duelo tonight. Stay tuned to a future episode of infinite Rabbit Hole. When we dive into the lore of the Duelo, and another creature that shares the same geological Niche, the snarl yow, Anybody have anything else to add, especially you Sarah before I start getting into final thoughts? I think we already talked about the dog, man, burial mound connection, but the duay, oh, Sally. Gaster fighting thing is so weird and I can't really figure out exactly where it came from, because it really just popped up out of nowhere. But it's so cool and it's has spawned some really cool artwork, but my favorite thing that it has spawned is a lightly erotic Cryptid novel.

1:00:21 That was emailed to me. So upsetting. So in the novel it's like the snallygaster couple and the Duelo family are like fighting and I guess that way has like went in and ate all the snallygaster eggs which is great. You get some world-building and then you get like, five pages in and just so much explanation about snallygaster mating. So, I'm glad that for everything, you know, of this legend that I got to read that with my eyes. And now, I can never unknow that information right on. I have a theory and I don't know if this is true or not, but when I was looking for books to read on the snallygaster, I don't know if this is the one that you're talking about, but I came across a fictional novel by a Stephen hamling, you know, anything about that?

1:01:18 Not that one. So I don't know how old this this book is. Actually it says it was publication 22 so not very likely. I was actually gonna say maybe maybe this is something that was like a fictional story may be included in like a newspaper or something. People kind of just jumped onto it was newspapers way of mashing, the two legends together and it just kind of stuck. I like it. I'm going to be honest with you. I mean I'm not local but from the outside taking that to Cryptids are in Mortal battle. With each other. I think that's pretty cool. No, it's pretty sweet. I would rather the snallygaster fight the goat, man, but like, I'll take it. They can all just be a Royal Rumble of Maryland, Cryptids, Thunderdome Cryptid Thunder down which Goatman the Maryland, Beltsville Goatman, the only ones real, okay? I thought you meant that, I thought you meant that guy that we have that lives in the next County over that you just runs around with goats.

1:02:19 It's crazy. Wait, what? Yeah, the Goatman like he run, he runs around in the field with them, know you like, picks him up and he runs around with him in there like that. But just like runs at people screaming, he's just a good credible. I was just like I like what Goatman is this guy fighting? Because if he's fighting this one, he's definitely losing. Yeah, absolutely can go to people. This guy's legit scary. Yeah. Are we good or else? This goat mantle? Well, whether you're good or bad. He'll come get you. So it doesn't matter. What you guys gonna make out at you? Sir, you got anything else to add? What did I miss? How bad did I fuck up?

1:02:59 No, I'm really excited that you guys are going to cover the snarl Yow because that's another favorite of mine. But honestly, there's not a ton of way of smelly information, like, it was like a few new stories spread out, but like, there's not a whole lot of like, actual folklore around it, but I could find, I do like that. I don't know if you got See these ones, but there were a few 1932 stories. That said, the snallygaster was riding around on a unicycle with like water wings on. There's some really goofy drawings that I enjoy like, it got really silly and then there was a UFO sighting flap in 1947 that some people said was the snallygaster and some said it was UFO that I'm still kind of tracking down and hoping maybe some people that were alive during that time can give me like a First hand account but you know the snallygaster is really interesting because it does tie in a lot with American history and I think that's what makes it special and that's why I included American in the name of the museum because I feel like it's like a very uniquely American Cryptid. That just has like a lot going on. The Duomo is super cool.

1:04:17 And I love dog man and everything but I'm not dedicating with a huge portion of the museum. Do I owe stuff? Unless some new information comes out, but it's Super Rad and I'm glad you guys are going to do a Duo star, Liao discussion. I'm excited to hear it and maybe we'll have you back on for. I would absolutely love that. It's not the plans yet but when it happened, so preach out for sure. Yeah. I'll send you some creepy pictures. So there's actually this Chapel built by Madeleine Dahlgren and she was the one that wrote South Mountain magic. She's entombed in it, which I recently learned. And I think that's pretty badass. But there's a A sign that's like beware this gnarly out and it has some of the Legend on there and I think that's super cool. It's like right on South Mountain where the star Leah would have been out, yapping, around and scaring people. Nice.

1:05:05 I actually am trying to track down a copy of South Mountain magic after reading that book that you recommended to me. Yeah, it's a hard one to find but it's good. Gotta find it. So what is it? There are a lot of different ideas when it comes to what the snallygaster actually is. Some say, it's a Thunderbird. Why do people think it's a Pteranodon left over from the prehistoric ages? Some even claim that it's an unknown creature. From Middle-earth that came up through the Earth's crust by South Mountain. After earthquake, whatever it is. I can't help but notice a trend in this area of the country, with the likes of the Jersey Devil, Mothman and a few others sporting very similar. But also drastically different prescriptions in the same geographical area of the United States. One other creature that has seen alarming similarity to is the Van Meter visitor of Iowa in 1903. There are those that think the snallygaster is just a sandhill crane or a different bird of similar stature. And yes, of course, there are a lot of people who believe that is just folklore and nothing more. My personal opinion is that I sit on the fence on this one. I'm not going to bore you with the details about why I think it might not be real.

1:06:28 So I'll dive into why it might be real. And the clue for me are the tentacles. So this detail bothered me. I couldn't find anything that was close to being an avian or mammal that also had tentacles. But what I did find while looking at Birds, We're chickens. If you believe that dinosaurs were in fact real don't worry, Jeff, we know you don't then you should also know that we have minimal knowledge of what they actually look like. What we do know, by genetic testing and comparing bone structures to other avians. Is that The Reptilian asked dinosaurs were also, very closely related to birds could dinosaurs have had what chickens and roosters have on their faces chins and foreheads.

1:07:17 You know what I'm talking about? That red thing while that red thing is what's called a waddle. And I'll tell you one thing, I didn't know what a lot of was. I sure might think it were tentacles if attached to a Pteranodon type animal flying around in the sky. So here's my point of view on the matter if this is real and I think there's a really good chance it was. I think it could have been a terror and it could have been a teardown like creature sporting a fat waddle that many claim to be 10. It's growing out of its mouth chin and or top of its head. What do you think? I absolutely love that theory.

1:07:58 I actually posted reposted something, my friend sent me. It was like a bird with one of those Waddles that went kind of around his beak and it looks like tentacles and I, you know, obviously the dinosaurs becoming bird saying is awesome. So I think that's a super cool one. I have a whole part in the museum and and that I'm going to be doing it. Van Meter visitor Fest, hopefully, about pteranodons still being around and flying. Cryptids being, you know, kind of related to them and then, you know, there's a few photos as one that's like the Civil War soldiers with the dead Pteranodon. And then there's the one that was like a re-creation of the guys holding the big one that some people say is a Thunderbird. It's from like the wild west days or whatever. So I think that's really a pretty valid Theory especially given that South Mountain is the second oldest mountain range in the world you know it's part of the Blue Ridge Mountains and I think the only And rage older than that is in Africa. So it's plausible to me that a dinosaur could have somehow lived in the depths of the earth and come out through the mountain.

1:09:05 I think I would believe that sooner than I would believe it was riding a unicycle with water wings on. So no hold on. It's pretty believable. I agree good. Yeah I think that it could be absolutely a Tara Don or some other type of flying reptile that had that loose Flappy skin all over. It's face then you know, why not? I wanted to say I was just looking at pictures of vultures because I wanted to say that there was a type of vulture that had this like had its own Volturi kind of a waddle, but it was more like a long stringy flap of skin hanging off just above its beak, but I couldn't find any pictures and I'm just like I wonder what type of bird that was if it wasn't a vulture, but I can totally get behind that because I agree.

1:09:49 You know, II agree that I personally think that dinosaurs existed. But that they probably didn't look quite as menacing as we're led to believe that they are because even paleontologists can't really all come together on. What dinosaurs actually look like. If all the bones are lined up the way they're supposed to be and stuff and so it's just like yeah why not? You know it plus you know all we have is bones, we don't have skin, right? So if they had some giant like gnarly, growths all over their faces and stuff, we would have no idea because of you know, who knows? Rose. Maybe all the dinosaurs died out because of skin disease who have no idea because all we have is Bones, right?

1:10:31 So I think that that's a pretty valid argument and I, you know, can get behind, especially once we get into the whole pterodactyl, still being alive and stuff, I can definitely get behind something like that. Existing somewhere, or having existed at some point, you know, recently in the last couple hundred years, maybe not Right now, but I did have a question. Is there any known or I want to say more valid sightings of the snallygaster in recent times, besides just things that came around during the end of the Civil War and then the early 1900s, no, there really haven't been, I'll a words in 1947 like UFO, Sally, got everything, but like a lot of Cryptids once you get modern technology involved and the The ability to photograph it or videotape it it suddenly doesn't appear anymore.

1:11:31 So I wished that there was, I would be so excited but no, sadly, no modern, smelly sightings. But like I said, you know, two more years that we've got the egg hatching so you never know. I mean, yeah. I mean that's and that's fair because I mean like there's still probably pull up a Loch Ness monster siding from yesterday but there's no pictures, there's no videos obviously. It it's just I don't know, I don't know. Don't know how much I want to pour into this one knowing that we're going to be talking about pterodactyls and I don't want to repeat the same information but I think that there's a possibility that it could exist but certainly not in the way, it was described.

1:12:14 Exactly. Like, I don't think there was like octopus tentacles at coming out of its mouth and stuff and breathing fire wearing watering wings while riding. Yeah, there's a lot of people that Claim you know, maybe it had a stake in its mouth or hey as building a nest with or number of many different things. People just saw it, you know? And they saw the silhouette of it from a distance was like those are tentacles hanging out of its base. That's a weird thing to say though, like how many people knew? What like an octopus look like at the time to say those are disabled. I mean they're not far from the shore right there, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's why I kind of stopped myself. I'm just like, well, A lot of people got here on boats Western there so it's pretty unlikely that you would have had a lot of octopus going on.

1:12:59 It's pretty far from the coast. So I the octopus there is a little strange to me. I think the waddle theory is a lot more valid have you heard that? Was I honestly I thought I was bringing something new to the table. No, I've heard this thing. Oh well it maybe it's scooped up an octopus and it was like flying around with it. I'm like, come on now. Just hold. This is my Octopus. I'm not letting go. Yes like this is my my new baby octopus. Sorry. So Sarah the listeners heard taken eyes point of view. Nobody gives a flying fuck about what we think. Sure we're just plugs right? They're here for you.

1:13:41 What what is your honest opinion about the styling gaster? What it could be was real. Where do you sit? So I don't like to have an opinion one way or the other. I like to entertain every idea about it because for me this is not really trying to prove whether or not a Cryptid is real. It's more a study of folklore and culture and mythology and kind of where these things all come together to make these fantastic stories. So it's really more of like a lifelong study thing for me than a, you know, I have a definite opinion one way or the The other and that's what makes the museum.

1:14:21 Kind of exciting is that like I might get a new piece of information and since you know suddenly something changes but it's more you know, just chronicling it and studying it and everything. Awesome. Was there anything that we missed that you can expand upon or add to my brain is so fried because I am coming off a 12-hour shift in the ER. So I'm sure there is and I'm sure I'll wake up at like three in the morning and remember it but as of right now I cannot think of anything. No problem, totally understand. So before we go ahead and sign out, you might hit and everybody else, one more time with everywhere that they can find you and, and the American style, I guess our Museum. Sure.

1:15:03 So Instagram is at American snellie gaster Museum. My website is snallygaster. Museum.com you can email me at snallygaster museum at gmail.com, if you could just limit the Cryptid erotica. To one story, I would appreciate it and then as far as we're experiencing a lot of delays with actually Opening Our physical location, which is a bummer. But you know in the grand scheme of things, two years is not that long to have been working on it. So for right now we're going to be events, only will be at Jersey Devil. Fable Fest, May 7th, and then why Phil UFO Fest in Virginia. June 7th, I believe, I think it's Exactly a month apart. Yeah.

1:15:52 So we'll be out and about I bring a lot of cool pieces of Art and you know some weird hard to find newspaper articles and books and stuff like that. So it's always kind of fun to show people. All that weird stuff and talk about weird Cryptids with them. There's only two hours away from me. Oh, you should totally come out. I'll show you my copy of South Mountain magic. It's really old and it rules whitehill. Hmm. You said June? Yeah. A wife value of fur. Let me look at my calendar. I know it's like the first week of June. I'm already booked to go to the Bigfoot Conference In June. I just don't know what these 16.

1:16:32 Yeah I don't think it's that when his wife, I don't know. It sometime. Let's let's get you out of here. We can we can chat you know sometime else. I want to get you to sleep. Yeah, absolutely yeah. Alright, so for those listening of course I'm going to send Sarah invite to the infinite Rabbit Hole group on Facebook. As you heard, she is not a big Facebook. ER she's more on Instagram. Feel To follow her journey there, if she doesn't accept it, that's on her. You have to send your hate mail to her. But I know that the the listeners of our podcasts are very active on our Facebook group and they love having Asher's there. There's a lot of people that are joined in and they love it. So Sarah, you know, you're going to get one little piece of spam from us and that's just going to be a Facebook invite to the group.

1:17:24 But other than that, I really, really am going to say thank you for hang on to hear especially after a long shift and a grueling job. Yes. In a long day. Yeah. Thank you for having me. This is awesome and whenever we're going to do snarling, ow, you just let me know. I'll come back and hopefully it won't be after work. And I'll be much more refreshed and have my wits about me. Well, I really do appreciate you coming on. I look forward to seeing your journey and seeing the this. Now I guess or Museum grow. And when that thing does physically open, I'm going to take the wife and the kids up there to come see Awesome. Yeah we're going to have a lot of cool stuff for the kids so I'm excited to see you guys and then send me the link to the store so that when we post this episode, we can post a link a couple days later to the merch store. So if anybody wants to get some snail, gaster swag, they have one leg.

1:18:20 Sure. Yeah, I definitely will. This star Cruiser Studio shirt is my favorite one, so I'll be pushing that one pretty hard. Awesome, be too, because I I'm probably going to snag him myself. Yeah you're totally should real quick. The sources that I used for today's episode was Mysteries and lore of Maryland by Susan Fair chasing American Monsters by Jason off wit cryptic creatures by mm halls. I like to extend a special thank you to Sarah Cooper for joining us on this episode. And then also want to say thank you to everybody who took a chance to listen to this episode today. Please check out the rest of our catalogue at infinite Rabbit Hole.com head on over. Facebook search for our group and our page you can go to facebook.com forward slash infinite rabbit hole for our page. It has the white logo and if you just search for infinite rabbit hole on Facebook and find our group, with the black logo, that will get you into the conversation with everyone else. And we'll see you next week.

1:19:17 When we dive into the world of Aaron dese, he has a writer for the paranormality magazine. He is also the host of the, hey, strange, this podcast and strange conversations. Until next time. Travelers will see you. The dicks path of the infinite Ravenel.