The Loch Ness Monster Part 2

0:03 Hello, my name is John, so sure, the father Jeremy Scioscia and I want to welcome you to the next exciting episode of the infinite rabbit hole. Last week on infinite Rabbit Hole. One of the theories that I know about Nessie is that Aleister Crowley brought it into this reality through this magic. Maybe this is why we can't find any dang Cryptids anymore, right? We can't find any big feet is because people throughout history have thought in this exact same way we have to kill it because it exists but no it is unfortunate. And I agree, man. I think that a lot of these things were real or something like they overhunted.

0:45 These things, for whatever reason, and I don't know too much about the geography around the area but what if it is a land creature, that goes into the water but then you would think that there'd be a lot more sightings on land. Now, what I hate is when people go out there and fake the shit, it happens so much that this is the reason why people say as soon as they find out that they've that they're part of a Bigfoot, searching group or lakna searching group or whatever they instantly say, no, it's a fake. Right. I think that there is just some portal in this area and maybe this Beast kind of bleeds through in the sport of kind what we talked about with Skinwalker Ranch. Welcome back to infinite Rabbit Hole. I'm cans are last week.

1:51 We talked Nessie part 1. This is Nessie part 2. So welcome, welcome. Before we dive into it though, let's just get straight to the point here and introduce our my other co-hosts of the episode. We've got, we'll start with Jake. Today, how you doing? Jake cans are you're muted. I'm just messing with you. I'm doing was like, am I really know? How would I have known that smart? Now I'm doing great. I'm ready to get into part two and really break it down. Get my heart racing already or your, I'm done with you already. With that said, let's introduce Jeremy next. How you doing?

2:40 I'm salty. I see that. I see that. Why are you selling tea? Well, because we're talking about a sea creature in a lake. Oh, somewhat attached to the ocean. It's not salty though. It's nice to be salty but they say that. Nessie comes from the ocean and spends its summers in the lock. No, just kidding. Some people do say that it lives in the ocean and finds his way through tunnels or and also not a plesiosaur and also another liopleurodon. Yeah, not that either.

3:22 Yeah, the way to Candy Mountain Charlie. Yeah, well known. That everything's going. Just swell kid ready to roll? Fantastic and last but not least. Jeffrey. How you doing I'm doing well, thank you very much. I'm not salty. That's good because sounds like Jeremy's trying to rub salt in a wound. Making shots for not having any hair poor guy. Yes hair, where it matters? That's right. I'm getting that's face. You hear that moms and your mom's Ego and his nipple soil. Well you guys got any other announcements or anything to say before we dive into it.

4:24 I have a little baby here soon. I'm gonna blow the lid off this thing. Congratulations on the baby, bro. Thanks man. Yes Round of Applause for the baby. Yes. And I'm excited to hear what Jake clearly has to say. Oh no, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be a Jeff. I'm gonna wait, and I'm gonna blow the lid off of this thing, but I do have to say about that baby. Everybody says, oh, wow. well, this is what Jeff does, but As for the baby. I my name is his middle name. So I'm super stoked. I have a best friend that names. His children after me, I was one of them.

5:05 Yes. Child hren, this is our way of getting rid of children. We just we force a connection with somebody else. When just it's yours now, man, we can't do it. I'll take him. Yeah, he'll be here. If you shoot by the time, this is out, he'll be here. So we're excited about baby number four and we just it's in the water over here man. Are you gonna go Sasquatch? And when you got all them kids, our kids are the best, the problem with using the bait.

5:45 Big certain ones, kids? Yeah, Bigfoot loves taking care of kids. We'll figure it out Bigfoot. Doesn't like to be fed. Bigfoot likes to hunt. Hmm. Yes. I just, I just mentioned time my children up feeding the Bigfoot won't do that. Whatever you got to do, I guess we need evidence. So what does it say that you have to specify that you won't do that? What does that say about? This never mind, I'm not going to get into, we're gonna go ahead anyways. Yeah, so messy. Yeah.

6:29 So Any other announcements are we done? We good, we cool. Jeff, your background is so bear, it's not a fan but it's not, you know, What do you want me to do man? I don't know man. Something like this. You can see that there's two closet doors here so that it's not like there's room. I could put something in this one little space and that really be it. I don't know. There's a closet door back there. Jeff all right, carry on Ken's are sorry. It's just boring. Okay. So at the end of last episode, we discussed the big expedition of 1970. And the audio tracks that were recorded. Well, a couple short years later in 1972. Another sonar Expedition would start known as the Robert. Ryan's studies, these Expeditions were conducted multiple different years and 70 to 75, 2001 and 2008 going out of their way to avoid areas with extremely murky water. And lots of driftwood.

7:40 A team would use a camera and flood light in the water, then run the sonar. And if anything came up they would turn the light on and Flash some pictures despite trying to avoid super murky areas. The lock is known to have a pretty block is known to be pretty murky as it is. So the quality of pictures weren't exactly the greatest but the team did manage to snap a couple good pictures of what looked like to be a plescia sword type animal in the law. There is a photograph famously known as The Flipper photograph that shows you guessed it a plus CS or type flipper. But one thing to mention it did take a lot of computer, a lot of computer enhancement to to get this picture clear enough to actually identify the flipper, which of course led to Skeptics questioning whether it was actually computer-enhanced or if it was just retouched the same group of people did their next study in 1975, this time using time-lapse photography Rafi and managed to get a picture of what they believed to be the underside of the creature or as they called the whole body picture.

8:48 It was later discovered that there were some problems in regards to the flipper photo. The conclusion was that the flipper was based off the fact that the camera was in a fixed position on the bed of the lock. However, it was revealed that the this was not exactly the case Witnesses from the operating crew said that the camera was never actually fixed or mounted to anything just floating in mid water. This meant The Flipper could have been literally anything and it was blurred by the potential movement of the camera. Another problem with the pictures was that they were published in an article from the journal Nature, and it was suggested that the pictures published or not the computer enhanced pictures that were originally shared but retouched once, despite all this, the legend still holds strong and even encouraged a man named Adrian shine to start an investigation of his own but more on him to come.

9:44 We also had another hoax in 1972. A few team members from the lni be were said to be having breakfast by the Lakeside when they saw a large object about 300 yards or so offshore immediately, the team jumped into a boat and went to investigate, whatever it was they saw in the water very quickly. They returned to Shore, Towing, a body behind them. I actually want to read an article. I found about this incident April Fool's Loch Ness, monster Inverness Scotland, the latest Monster hauled from the chilly Waters of the Loch. Ness was officially dismissed today as quote just an April Fool's joke. It's a hoax simply superintendent - McKay whose area includes the fame home of Nessie.

10:30 The legend, the legendary Loch, Ness monster. It's just an April Fool's joke, he said the latest Monster was brought here from England it It worked for a while. Police officially barred, the transfer from Scotland of a carcass of an animal found Friday off on the shores, of the Scottish Lake marine, biologist from Edinburgh. Zoo was called in to examine the seal like creature, which weighed a ton and a half and was feet long, the biologists still was going to take a look later today to make sure British newspapers had a field day with what one of them called the son of Nessie. But people here who have lived through. Countless Loch, Ness, hoaxes, we're not really taken in previous monster.

11:16 Hoaxes have included the monsters foot which proved to be an elephant's, a monster's bone discovered to Been a whale bone and an entire model monster built by students. Very quickly after this a man came forward saying that. Yes, this was in fact, nothing more than an April Fool's joke on his co-workers he worked at a zoo and thought it would be funny to dump the frozen body of an elephant seal into the lock, but he had no intention nor did he expect this to be such a sensation? An elephant seal. Just so everybody knows is about 15 feet in length. On average with some getting up to 20 feet in length.

11:58 This prompted a few people within the scientific Community to think about how to protect Nessie. Sir, Peter Scott was another man that was involved in the search of the monster. He was a painter by trade, who said, he believed in the monster and together with Robert Ryan's, they wrote an article for the journal Nature that they actually gave. That actually gave the creature a scientific name, Nessa Terrace from Bop tricks, which translates to Ness monster with diamond shaped fins. During this time, there was a conservation law passed in the UK that stated without a binomial and common name.

12:38 Any unknown animal could be could not be protected. So the men wrote the article, which was not at all peer review, not at all peer-reviewed and We published in the comments and opinions section of the paper. But how do they come up with such a name? Let me read an expert from the article explaining. It is proposed that the large animal species living in Loch, Ness be called NASA terrorists from Bach tricks. The generic name, Nessa Terrace is a composite word. Combining the name of the lock, with the Greek word terrorists, that the specific name run box. Rex, is a combination of the Greek. Rambo's a diamond or longitudes lodges. Spit a diamond shape Fin and the Greek Terex me. Eating Finn or Wing?

13:33 Thus the species is Ness monster with diamond, Finn and trying to determine which class they belong to. It is concluded that the paddle and figure one must belong to a vertebrate animal for reference figure. One is actually the flipper photograph. All of this was done just to protect whatever Nessie, maybe, and to prevent any potential hunters from trying to slay, the Beast, anyone who tries to kill the bees could possibly face some Hefty consequences. What you guys think? I was just looking at that picture big chunk, I don't know how far away the camera was from this alleged flipper, but it literally could have been a fish fin.

14:15 It really wasn't computer enhancement. I mean, yeah, it's got to. Yeah. Yeah, to I mean, it original super dark but I mean that's not that's not that uncommon, right? Super dark picture, you just change the contrast of it, that's not that big of a deal. But I mean like it could have been, you know, depending on how close or far away this Image was it literally could have been this big. It could have been a little fish going by, you know, just been like really obscured or something. I mean it just really didn't look like anything in particular. Nothing like, you know, I think that in this circumstance you'd have to really have to take a picture of like a full-size one or at least like the head or something like that.

14:57 Not just like, oh, there's a flipper. It's proof. It's like, like, I mean, that could have been a whale flipper. You could have Taken that image from something else, entirely a different Expedition from somewhere else, entirely, and just been like a look what we found. It's like, I don't know, I have my own theory on The Flipper. But I want to hear what you guys have to say about first Jeff. You said you sound like you have something to say no. Okay, really. So one thing that I want to point out about these two photographs, the full body and The Flipper, both of these were taken. I believe in the 70s, if I'm if I don't remember correctly, right?

15:42 72 and 75. The unedited version of The Flipper one. Doesn't look very different from the fully edited one, which is it's very, very similar. I was watching a documentary a long time ago on this and they brought out this photo, and it just doesn't seem like something that It's not very good piece of evidence. Let's go. That way. One thing that you guys have to understand about Water and Light is that something happens called refraction, okay? And you see a very sharp angle in the picture and it could be anything. Could be a piece of glass could be a shell or a rock or even a leaf in the water.

16:26 Anything could refract light really? Honestly. It light refracts. It's what it does. Right. The lot of soot. We know that the floor is very City and that's what it looks like more about that a little bit later. Yeah. But yeah, you can continue the picture if you look, you know, I should probably brought a picture up but if I remember correctly and one of the corners it's very bright white and then it kind of makes like this diamond shape. A picture that which is supposedly supposed to be the flipper, right? The theory behind it is that this this image is actually taken upside down or a quarter turn one way or the other, and that the suit as actually lifting off of the off of the ground and in the lock, and all the light that's being caused by the camera or whatever, the light sources that they're using.

17:32 Is being reflected back to camera and those sharp angles are refractions coming off of whatever's in this. Put a picture in the YouTube chat for us, did you? Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's just, it's just so reflective. So it literally could have been a bunch of dirt kicked up and it just, it's reflecting all that all of those minerals and stuff that's sitting inside that suit of whatever it is, right? That could have been the whole thing about the camera freely floating that could have just been it, hit the bottom, and that's the image. It conjured up. Yeah, I just write it. Like, I mean, if you great great fine, Jake by the way, this is something that we should post on the on the Facebook page for people because this is exactly what I was referring to. In fact, yes, oh this one looks like it's it's turned just slightly to the left or the camera little landed on its side.

18:32 What not? And the we're getting the the kick up of the suit that's on the on the ground of the lock. And if you look at the unedited version, it's very hard to spot. This, right? This is the this triangular or diamond shape phenomenon that you're seeing in the original, right? It's not very good and this could be made from the beam from the light source itself. When you go to the enhanced one, there is a lot of those missing, like, they highlighted this flipper or this quote, unquote, flipper of a plasia sore as if they're trying to make something out of nothing. I mean, I I see that all that extra noises pulled away, right? So right away.

19:27 I can't remember the name of the documentary or even where I saw, it was a Long time ago. I'm going to have to take the the nope on this one, but I do like the full body photograph. I believe it was taken in the same year. I believe it was taken even by the same team if I'm if I'm correct. Yeah, as far as I understand, I was trying to listen kid but at the same time I was trying to remember some of the information from this documentary, but this full body, Picture is pretty cool, right? Could it be sediment? Could it be something floating? Could it be debris? Yes, but and well, looks like a plesiosaur, let's just be honest about it, I don't know if I had the right photo in all honesty, I searched and searched and searched and I kept get like every article I pulled up, I kept seeing the exact same photograph, but to be all I was seeing was a cloud of dirt and dust.

20:26 It could be that what I saw more dirt and dust in that photo that I did. The Flipper photo. And honestly I didn't even think about all the like missing spaces or anything in The Flipper photo, so that one's yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually going to do a search and try to help you guys out. I should have been searching for the first one myself, but the full-body photograph is interesting. It's cool, right? I don't think there's any way to really tell you. Yes or no as to what it is. There you go. I put a picture of it in the chat. This would also be something that we would want to post kid when when we post this stuff, won't you go ahead and save these photographs so that when We post your this episode. The second part.

21:15 Yeah. Is it mean it's gonna be a giant stick? Oh yeah. I mean it could be anything right? And it still has all of the the sediment particles that you see in the first photograph but with I mean is this enhanced? Yeah it could be could it definitely could be but the way that the first one was enhanced it literally eliminated all of Extra noise and left. Just what the the person who editing the photo wanted you to see their right. That's all they look. And this photo there's at least all of that other sediment there and they didn't get rid of it.

21:57 So I mean it's tough it was by the same team there's red flags right there because the first one was yeah in a way that you know kind of forced perspective but it's like someone taking a picture of like foliage in there outlining A Bigfoot in there. Like there it is like it's this was the only exception of red circles. Yeah. But yeah. Nice dive kid pointless photograph though. I thought they were interesting fortunes why I shared it again? The whole body photo, I kept running into stuff about horns and like it was explaining all the best way I could. Compare it as like a giraffe head, with its little horns on its head.

22:47 Hmm. Yeah. But like, everything I read just seems so garbage. I didn't even want to bother. That's like that movie, the the water dragon, or whatever it was, or the water horse. And that's kind of like the little, the little horns on its head. Like a giraffe and like here and I'm done. That's probably where that came from. Hey, Jake, can you send the link to this page that you're on? Yeah, I got you. Thanks. Basically that's the same picture again just in a different color. And and that perspective, it totally looks like just Dart. Yeah, like looks like the grounders. Good job, Jeff. Just killing.

23:27 Thank you very much. I feel like I'm doing a very good job. I got a little snippet just for you Jeff, don't worry, your you've got a part coming, you don't have to stick your board all night, it's okay. I was thinking about you aren't can. I guess what it's about? I think you all know exactly what it's already involved, but don't get their take because even though Jeff said he would do some research on the subject, I'm pretty sure he didn't. I didn't Well, maybe I did. I went to the zoo. Hmm, they have a, that's what your little research you know. Well, you know, you got to see like these these wild animals, you know, looking at a tiger.

24:09 He's like, that's not messy. So You see here? We like it's a flipper. Nope. That's a mangie not that. Could be a mess. Yeah. A manatee picture looks fake. That's all I got for you. Shoot that could have been a seal flipper. Do you have seals and Loch? Ness know. We'll get there. Jake quit jumping ahead. That sounds like yes. It looks real like the head of a squid than anything but I got squids and Loch Ness. There's fresh water squids. Well get Out there. Jake quit jumping ahead.

24:51 When I get there. All right. Are you ready? Yeah, if I can't, jump ahead, I guess, all right. Adrian shine is a naturalist and has been working on the exploration of many different locks since the early 70s. Today's the head today. He's the head of the ongoing Loch, Ness project and the lock Nest Center and exhibition located in drum, dad rocket. He built a small submarine, he called machine, which he used to lead students and volunteers on Expeditions as well as teaching them, scientific medicine methods as they went along.

25:34 He started his research in 1973 and Loch morar, he choked, he chose marar because the water was much clearer than that of nests and like most locks throughout Scotland, marar has a monster of its own amore. While they have been Outlook, while they may have been out looking for proof of a monster, the research took a bit of a turn. After Adrian, spent some time, watching the water in the submarine, they were now interested in the general environment and how things. Like the food chain could affect such a creature could affect such a creature pointing out that the rocky environment doesn't have enough nutrients for a creature such as a plus you sore. but this was just the start, it wasn't until much later in 1987 to be exact that the biggest research expedition of the Loch, Ness would commence October of 88 of 1987. Operation deep scan started with 2224 boats positioned at different spots along the lock.

26:33 I'll set up with Echo. Sounding equipment managed to send acoustic signals throughout the water and map the bottom of the lot during the initial Scan. They found three objects. That seem to be very large and out of place. These objects were said to be much larger than, what is expected to be found in a fresh body of water and led to the Group rescanning, the lock the next day to see if these objects could be found again. They never work. They only found what was believed to be Driftwood, stuck in the mud and sand because the objects were no longer to be found. This gave everyone reason to believe that whatever they came across. That day was in fact, a moving water Target.

27:16 A moving water Target doesn't necessarily mean that there's a 25-foot creature swimming around in the lock that simply could have been a large seal, or even a large fish. Sonar expert. Darrell Lawrence said, that quote, there's something here and the there's something here that we don't understand and there's something here, that's larger than a fish. Maybe some species that hasn't been detected before. I don't know end. Quote Adrienne has been a strong advocate for anyone who wants to do research and try to prove or disprove the existence of Nessie. He even helped with the DNA survey done in 2018, but we'll get to that soon enough. He also is involved with operation ground truth, which has a main goal to recover historical, artifacts that have been lost to the lock such as famed.

28:04 Racers, John Cobbs speedboat crusader, In 2003, BBC sponsored a search that use 600, sonar beams and satellite tracking to see if they could find Nessie but all they found was a whole lot of nothing. The scientists involved claimed that this this was all that they needed to prove. That Nessie does not exist as BBC was doing their research. A man came forward, claiming he had found a fossil that belonged to the monster Gerald McSorley was walking along the lock when he tripped on the fossil. This seemed to be the fossil of a pervert. The seemed to be the perfectly preserved vertebrae, set into limestone.

28:50 McSorley was quoted as saying, I literally tripped over the fossil in the water, when I put my hands down to steady myself. I saw something unusual and picked it up once they cleaned off about an inch of green algae. And I could see the texture of the bone, it became clear that I had an important fossil. I've always believed in the Loch Ness monster but this proves it for me the Ambulance between this and the sightings which have been made are so similar and quote, after close examination, it was determined that the fossil was, in fact that of 150 million year-old plus CS. Or this was huge. Since it was the first time anything of the sort had ever been found to prove that such a creature did.

29:32 Once exist in the law, the area in which the fossil was found was kept top secret so that scientists could sweep the area and conduct their research on Third, but nothing was ever found in the end. It was determined that the fossil was not originally there and some prankster had planted it in 2008. Robert Ryan's came out and said that BBC, didn't find anything because of the possibility that the creature was now extinct over the years, sightings had greatly decreased, and not many people had kept up with Sona research of the law and due to the climate change. The animal was unable to adapt to the changes in temperature of the Walk. Over the years, there had been some sightings such as the homeless video in 2007, which showed a jet-black thing moving very fast in the water.

30:23 Adrian shine him himself even said it was some of the best footage he'd ever seen the creature, we were also presented with the George Edwards photograph, in 2011, George Edwards, claimed that he had been searching for the monster for over 26 years, and was finally able to snap a picture of the creature to present to the world. Later in 2013, he came out and said that it was all just an elaborate hoax. We've also gotten a couple odd pictures from Apple maps that some say, but some still believe could be the Loch Ness monster, 2014 Apple Maps showed a satellite image with a large creature. That looks to be almost 100 feet long. It was later determined that this was likely, a very large boat wake. They captured What do you guys think? Today of sturgeon and Loch?

31:12 Ness, the sturgeon can get like 16 feet long and it's freshwater fish. We're getting there. Jake you mentioned fish. So I'm talking about. Okay, okay. What is this a down here? I don't even know where that is now. Somewhere over here. Well, that is very large fish, very large fish Sturgeon. Could be a very large fish and you're right. It could be a sturgeon could. If I look at it, I'm not gonna answer yes or no. Until we get there utilizing fish finders and stuff. It could have been a school of fish. Like honestly, I have I've seen people use fish finders before, if it's a singular fish. It looks like a singular smudge and you can see it. If it's a school official looks like a big smudge and it's just like whoa that's a 25-foot creature or to school fish. There could be more advanced stuff but that's what I've seen so I don't know.

32:09 Like, I know people that do that, routinely or professionally can probably tell the difference between a school of fish, because of the spaces between them or whatever it is, but Still and it could've been a 25 foot log, you know? Yeah, the water. It's just a moving. Water Target. Not crazy. And I'm curious about the guy that just stumbled upon a fossil that was covered in algae. Like that's like, was it a bone? Or was it just like a slab or a rock that was broken in half? And there was like, a fossilized portion inside of it?

32:50 Like, like, I don't know what that means. Exactly, as far as I understand about the story, he's literally just walking along the shore. And tripped over. What was Zoomed originally to be a large Rock. I don't know if it was like buried in the sand and he like, I don't know what the situation was there because personally, I look at the ground when I'm walking on the beach because I'm looking for cool shells and whatnot. So I kind of look at ahead of myself at the same time so I don't trip over the large rocks. Like there's like, I don't really know whether this thing was buried in the sand or like what the deal. How Actually, he came across just tripped over it, and picked it up with thought, it seemed a little strange so he picked it up and cleaned it off and all of a sudden had a + CS or fossil in his hand.

33:48 What that tells me is that he had a background in that sort of stuff because people that are fossil hounds will often find certain types of rocks that are made up of the sediment, they would find Seychelles and stuff like that. And you can watch videos on YouTube where they have a complete and total Rock and then they crack it. In half and at the seam, where the big old, you know, snail shell is, is in it, it breaks away and you can have the whole thing exposed. So what that tells me is that this guy wasn't just some random person, but also, it seems kind of weird that that would be a normal reaction from a person being like, Oh I just slipped over this rock. Let me pick it up and inspect it.

34:29 It's like I didn't know put it in here, but apparently it was a cased in Limestone. I remember reading something about Limestone when it came to this story but even still it's just like that seems more likely to me that he put it there and then was like oh shoot, what's this? You know, how could this be here? It's just seems very Quinta Dental which I miss me and Jeff know there are no such things as coincidences. So either it was placed there he just knows what to look for. Well, my big takeaway is just all the Shenanigans with the fossils and you know you mentioned a few different things. I think about either being planted or a hoax or whatever it is, and that's just what it is.

35:20 Man people want attention and they want to draw attention to things. Especially if something like this is your, you know, if you're, if there's a place that people go as a tourist destination, excuse me, for things like, to see the Loch Ness monster, right? Like, I'm not sure. The revenue is for that kind of thing over there but it's gotta be worth something somebody's making money. So there's an incentive for somebody to fake things. Fake pictures, fake pay other people to fake things, right? Like whatever it is, or try to pass any old piece of footage or data off as being evidence. There's incentive for that right by somebody.

36:02 So that's just what's in the back of my mind. I'm sure the town is profiting. I know. There's Gift Stores over there. You know that the everyone sells like a Loch, Ness monster keychain or magnet, like I know that that exists, there's a full-on museum, the Loch, Ness Center and exhibition, like the entire thing is just basically Museum of All the research that has ever been done on Loch, Ness all the theories. All the you name it, and it's ran by this Adrian shine gentlemen. Like, I'd have to imagine that was something similar to, you know, getting around like, when we were driving cross-country.

36:44 I mean, when we were in the desert, driving through Arizona, you know, people had alien stuff Area, 51 magnets, and all kinds of stuff. The closer we actually Out there to New Mexico it was like they had all kinds of stuff you know as far as like aliens and everything goes and it was just like I'm sure it's exactly like that you know you're right. It would make sense for people to constantly be or at least every couple of years someone to come out with some sort of evidence to drum up that activity again and get more tourists to come flood into that area. Yeah, it always seems to be taking place in like Inverness drums and rock it sort of area, anyways, which is right where most of all of the Loch Ness touristy stuff takes place as well. So now, holy 26 years, trying to find the Beast and it's like, well, we've already established that, it probably breathes air and doesn't have gills.

37:46 So, if you spent 26 years trying to take a picture of something that literally has to break the surface of the water at some Point. You are wasting your time. Yeah, so couple things I like to point out, right? I've seen this vertebrae. It's like three or four vertebrae together so it is a vertebra. It's not rock. Oh no. It's it's I mean, here's the thing. I used to think I knew it fossils look like, how are ya? But old Jeremy would have been my guess. It looks like fossil, but here's the problem. Kid, what is the estimated age of this fossil again?

38:29 It said it was 150 million year old buses taller. So this is go off of that for a second. Okay. 150 million years old. How is that proof that the Loch Ness monster exists? Okay. How do we know that that's accurate either way either fucking with even if it's 150,000 years old? Yeah, that's more like it. Even if it's a hundred and fifty million years, our billion years it doesn't matter. It doesn't it doesn't even matter to 150 years old. How is this evidence that the Loch Ness monster exists? Are you running DNA on it? Can you can Can you?

39:13 Tie this to an aquatic mammal. Okay. Hold on. I'm getting there. Would you say the same thing? If it was a primate skull found in the Pacific Northwest you or are you just being a bias? Okay, I got him. The school is different though. It is a full moon, every everything with a backbone. Has a back from the brink. Okay, could have been a way honestly or elephant in 150 million.

39:54 Bajillion years ago, a lock was not the lock. Okay, if you go by the, the current story that is being driven, there you go, Jeff, I made sure. I got that out correctly for you. The lock wasn't there. Okay, so all this says, is even if it was a plasia sores vertebrae from 150 million years ago. It has no way shape or form. It does not show proof that the Loch Ness monster exists. It's a pretty cool find. Don't get me wrong. You know, this dude literally what was walking?

40:36 And just found a vertebrae on the ground that, you know, I don't know, man. I don't find it weird how he found it. I mean, people find shit all the time. That's how we have things people find it. Okay, not only had I known it was a vertebrae and not just a rock. I mean do people find all the time? Okay it happens. All right, I'm not too caught up on how I found it. I think it's cool that he found it. I don't care where we found it. You know. I'm a little bothered that he's tying it to the Loch Ness monster as proof of the Loch. Ness monster has existence. I think that's kind of silly. And I think that anybody that kind of puts any, any weight into that? It's kind of silly.

41:19 I again cool. Find does not prove that the Loch Ness monster exists or ever existed. Just based off this guy's name, I kind of felt like he was a bit of a sore loser. Anyway, so you just want some attention to begin with was name again. Something McSorley. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorrel to make sorely I'm happy for him. Nothing good for him, yet. Those 15 minutes of fame, for sure. But not not connecting it to one of those monster neat but I thought it was an interesting thing to add. Anyways, just cuz all its connections, I can't believe that guy fucking fake that-that-that's:. The beasts.

42:13 Only can we sue him roll the tape. Karen told you. Yeah, what an asshole? Yeah. What a fucking asshole, man. Shame on her. Him. Dude, I want to buy a bunch of those skulls and hide them everywhere, I guess, I think ulis. I mean I was like, oh, this is actually pretty, pretty cool. You know? I don't think he would he would do some bogus shit like this. And here is, he's like that sword. I think it was last episode. You actually said that. You lose a lot of respect for people who do that and that was the first name that came to my head was coyote Peterson, what an asshole man.

42:53 I wasn't necessarily even like referencing that, but I just meant like say it was a large primate bone. Not necessarily a skull but found in the Pacific Northwest, would you see that? And then immediately think? Well, that doesn't prove that they exist or they exist in this area. You'd be like Syria, like they're here now, they're living in my basement. Okay, the proof that I have that Bigfoot exists, is that when I was younger, I saw something in the in the Atlantic Northeast and then we could get and I could have been the last one we could have been absolutely couldn't, I could have been hearing meth addict screaming in the Woods real possibility.

43:37 I'm not sitting here saying like, I know, for sure that they were Sasquatch. I know I heard screams and tree knocks, and I know that when the scream started, And the people that were partying down the way they all shut up, and then the music stopped, and we are just hearing this guttural scream out in the woods. Now could have been a meth addict. Sure. Yeah. But that's what I heard. But the thing is, like, if I found a skull in the Pacific Northwest, right, or femur or whatever, how old is it? That's the first thing is their sole chunks of Flesh hanging off of it. That gets me excited. If it's bleached clean been dead for hundreds of years. I mean. That this says that there was something here, that's pretty neat, right?

44:20 If it was under 150 million years old, then who fucking knows what this plays. Well I mean if it was, I mean, let's be real if this was 10,000 years old like that whole area could have been part of the ocean. When that whole lot could have not been informed. Like I literally saw a short video today and it had it was like some Park and it had water dripping on three different. But rocks and it said, five years of erosion, 10 years of erosion, 25 years of erosion and this freaking rock at 25 years was just bored out and it was like a piece of granite, like a granite chunk and I was just bored out and it was all wavy and stuff and I was like, man, you just take that and maximize that by how much water is like rushing through a specific area and you know, this was a trickle.

45:07 Just a little trickle, you know, like how we be possibly know, like how quickly the Grand Canyon was carved out, it literally could have been 10,000 With that much water flowing through, I don't know. So yeah, that whole area, certainly, if plesiosaurs existed at some point and maybe they lived in that area, and it got captured there, when the water rushed out or whatever they were ocean happened, or it just died and, you know, fell down whatever. But the only thing that bothers me is that the idea of just finding a bone of fossilized bone, that's not encapsulated in rock because said it was a milestone. Yeah. But I mean was it like sticking out because I mean at that point the fossils themselves are rocks to which means they're susceptible to erosion as well.

45:58 Well so so also once broken out of the rock. Sure. He's very very real things called fossils. A they do actually they behave pretty well inside of limestone. Okay. Now, Now, you still have to be careful when extracting them. Yes, they do shatter, they are fragile, but there no way shape or form. Like if you if you're going to break our Drop, the Rock is everything. Just going to turn it dust inside of it and fossil, now, pretty things, right? So, or at least, I used to think they were for Jeff ruin our lives.

46:39 Yeah, it's just doesn't talk. I never said, they're fossils. Weren't real. I'm just said that dinosaurs and everything that becomes possible for real or just the ones, you know, they aren't real. Just the, there's a handful of very important fossils. That a lot of assumptions are based off of and most of those were hoaxed and faked fossils. That's where the dinosaurs are. Fake Rye stems from so it's not all fossils. Of course, there's fossils, but it's the assumptions made off of a handful of fake fossils that I have a problem with. But this this is a good example of this to write. You have these, these fakes in these hoaxes, right? Whether you're talking about this skull or this shit that they found in the lock, right?

47:25 Same kind of thing. How many people think right now that those were legit A million. A lot of people plug people, I know a lot of million I've seen, I've seen chat rooms as you know, Facebook pages waste five, where people look at these things and you know, they immediately bite down that this is hard evidence that the Loch Ness monster still exists to this day. Just like the same people in these fucking Bigfoot groups, which put red circles all over my wish and they're like there's 20 Bigfoot in this picture of this. Yeah and it's like here's the showed the fuck up so I mean yeah I totally get what you're talking about, man. I get it but I mean I don't know man. Let's let's not let's not make it a competition of who can be the smoothest brain, you know, what's fucking try here? So I'm just I'm shooting from the hip because I don't have a picture in front of me that shows The what the vertebrae look like and then when it was found and then what it looks like, you know, once samples were taken or whatever. So that's what I'm trying to Rack my brain right now because I'm thinking like There's this really great picture of the guy standing there, holding it in his eyes. He's just like got this wondrous look on his face of like I love my dad but he's wearing this bright. Yellow rain suit and it is the

48:56 most ridiculous thing ever. I loved it. All of it is amazing. Fair enough. Actually I did find it here. Put in that group chat. Yo, put it in that group chat, dude. When you start adding these pictures back into the the videos we still doing that. No, we're so half-ass here, in the in front of Revel. Yeah, you make it. You will look for it themselves. If anybody is expecting a good podcast, don't come here. This is not for you. Oh, I don't really hear. Well, you made your bed to lie in it. I did read a YouTube comment with one of our most recent videos that apparently we chitchat too much and I have to say that if that's something that you struggle with maybe podcasts listening isn't for you. They do tend to chitchat quite a bit in those podcasts where it's like the radio, you know.

49:55 And in case this talk show just they just talk. Not a lot of show. All right, I'm sufficient. I'm sufficiently convinced. It was all baloney with that one. All right. Well, the pictures are in the chat, okay? Okay, we ready laughs. This one's for you, you ready? Okay. Hey buddy, bear with us while we take this quick break. Last episode, Jeremy gave me a strike for not knowing about Aleister. Crowley clearly, I had some homework to do in order to redeem myself. So let me tell you a little bit about this guy Crowley and his involvement with the Loch Ness.

50:45 Crowley was very interested in Magic and used it for the purpose of interacting with spiritual entities. Having become a member of the Golden Dawn. In 1898, he moved in with a fellow member, who taught him about magic and other things. Such as ritualistic drug use, he was disliked by the other members, for his different lifestyle. And he was eventually isolated from the Golden Dawn. Despite all of this. He continued to practice magic rituals. In 1899. He purchased the boleskine house which is located on the Southeastern side of the law. This house is always been known to have some strange things happening. Since it became a parish in the 13th century with a Kirk also known as a church.

51:32 That's Scottish Gaelic for church with a Kirk and graveyard built on the property. It was said that Minister Thomas Houston was the man in charge of putting animated Corpses. Back into their graves. After a local wizard cast a spell to raise the Dead the Kirk unfortunately, burnt to the ground which led to the house itself being built in the 1760s. Crowley wanted something that was fairly isolated with a north-facing door and a Terrace. He could cover with fine sand. These very specific conditions were needed in order for him to conduct the ritual he had in mind.

52:13 Crowley. It was attempting to quote invoke ones, Guardian Angel and quote, using the book of the Sacred magic of a April April, Abram Allen. The Mage. I said that so wrong. this should take about six months to complete as he would have to summon multiple demons, and attempt to cleanse them of their negative influence and have them quote, serve the light and quote, In a few months when he was about halfway through his ritual, he receives of, he received a phone call from a colleague asking that Crowley fly out to Paris, despite being in the middle of his ritual. He took off for Paris, never actually finishing this ritual. Supposedly when you finish with a ritual such as this one, you have to banish whatever you conjured up back to wherever it came from and you'll never guess what Crowley didn't do. Whatever it was that Crowley invited into the house is still there today but what does any of this have to do with the Loch? Ness monster.

53:20 Well author and journalist Ted holiday. Believed that the Loch Ness monster could actually be a ghost or Spirit conjured up by Crowley holiday even worked with a small team to try and perform an exorcism on the lake and banish this quote ghost Nessie. Clearly they had no success. Since there are still Nessie sightings to this day. Jake's already done. Yep. I mean I mean that's definitely I did not know all that, so that's awesome. But you basically just said what I said in the last episode with all the actual details, right? That Crowley was here and Crowley was there for a reason, right? This isn't this isn't happening because Crowley was there, this goes back.

54:09 But from before that right like this this ancient wizard who was you know animating Pieces in this dude who was supposed to put these reanimated corpses back in the graves, right? With some other type of my like this goes back this in that's probably some lore or mythology based off of some other shit that happened they're going back, right? So Crowley was probably just tapping into that same energy at this point wherever this house is on the south corner or whatever. Right of this lock. So You know what, we're experiencing today and what people do see from time to time again, I think it's just some kind of bleed through between Dimensions or, you know, entity, or time bleed through, who knows what it is and how to explain it, but it's some kind of weird, bleed-through, I think.

55:03 So we're going to chitchat because that's what we do on podcast. Sorry, I'd say to you. That that just blows my mind. Anyways. I actually believe that. If there is a Loch Ness monster that the ghost Nessie is the answer. So love it. Jake what an ass. I don't think that Nessie is a flesh-and-blood. I just don't and I'm not one that just sits there and blames everything on Spirits. I am not sitting here saying that I believe it is a ghost. I'm saying that if it does exist, I believe that it is a spirit of applies.

55:58 Yes. Or it's the only thing that makes sense to me. It did the flesh and blood for for the Loch. Ness monster doesn't sound right to me. It just doesn't there that the body of water isn't isn't big enough. The the amount of searching that has happened within this confined space is, Is immense, okay? The amount of Technology money time that has spent searching for this damn thing. It's not their dad. I don't need a breeding population, bro. There's no way you would need a breeding population not to mention that if you put a breeding population into the Loch Ness of plasia sores, which we know were carnivores, there would be no other things. Anything else in there?

56:50 Okay, they'd be I mean, see him All the time, you'd see him old Factor mmkay evening. Even if they came in from these Caverns, underneath the land from from the ocean that a lot of people say, could potentially be the case, you get a couple of those motherfuckers in there, and there's not gonna be any other fish dude. Okay, this is why they lived in the ocean. I just don't think it's a possibility. I think that the ghost Nessie is very fantastic. I think it's it's romantic, sexy, beautiful, let's be honest. Okay, piggy back off that a little bit, just because, you know, like I live on the coast and to like, kayak fishing and stuff like that and just seeing, like, a couple of dolphins, you know, swimming in a frenzy of feeding.

57:41 Yeah. No, it's so intense at the top of the water, it's so much action that's happening. You know, that you can see it from hundreds and hundreds of yards away at water level in a kayak, right? So yeah. If you had a couple of these things way bigger than dolphins, Swimming around in there, you would definitely see them doing that. Not to mention. Like when I was living in Florida, you like, if you were out fishing, right? And all of a sudden you just hit this little where nothing. You're not seeing any fish activity, you're not getting a bite, a nibble or nothing and 10 minutes later a dolphin strolls by, and you're like, well, that's why, right?

58:24 Because everything fucking hides, right? Put some plasia sores on their man, and I just don't think you'd ever see. Anything come out. I mean the locks just not thinking I know it's a big body of water. Don't get me wrong. I get that. It's huge big but it's not big enough to hold a breeding eating population. Please just order. Or magical player. Drop liya player Don's. Nope. Candy Mountain. Yeah, I don't, I don't really want to get in my opinions of Aleister Crowley. And how made up that stuff is in this episode.

59:04 I think that there's a time and a place for that because I'm going to start an argument but I'll be your answer. Yeah, I don't I don't think that what about this idea that we go back to in our other Cryptid talks, or discussions or presentations, or whatever that Early. Humans could have seen these things at some point, even if it was the last of them and had an oral tradition passed down, because we know that in Ireland and Scotland and England before it was Ireland, Scotland England, you know, you had a lot of we had paganism. And one thing that pagans were really well known for was their oral Traditions, their mythologies, their their stories, all that sort of stuff.

59:56 Right? You see that all those Pagan cultures all the way around the world is that that's how they communicated, you know? They they shared their experiences through mythologies and stuff. So what's to say that this couldn't have been that as well? And in like a lot of cases that we see there is no substantial evidence whatsoever at this thing has existed at any point dirt in the Civilized portion of these this area or these areas but people hang on to that tradition and that mythology and they keep it alive by lying or making hoaxes because that to me makes the most sense is that if it's universally bad to.

1:00:44 I mean like these like I was saying like with this spot were Crowley's houses. Right. And then before that it was this church with the cemetery and this other folklore lie. Sure that could go back like you're saying To ancient times and it but it all these have to stem from something. In my, my opinion, all folklore and mythology is and religion and all of this comes from something that actually happened, that made them create this story to begin with. So yeah, I could go back a million years of human oral tradition of Loch, Ness being there. But that's because something happened there. And I think that it's not necessarily the I think people need to stop focusing on Loch Ness monster and need to start focusing more on Loch Ness as a location. If that makes sense, you're talking about way of lines and such, right?

1:01:41 I mean, I'd be interested to see kid, forgive me, if I'm jumping ahead. I don't know if you included any of this in your research, but I would be interested to see what other strange phenomena happens here. Because, you know, if we're to take Jeff's Theory into consideration, then there would have to be some other stuff. I'm not saying it has to be as crazy as Skinwalker Ranch or whatnot, but there would be some other stuff. I don't know about, I don't have anything more about that, but like I don't know about Loch Ness as a whole, if it's got anything else going on. But I know this boleskine house is like a hot spot. It's a massive.

1:02:29 I was trying to Google Earth it so I could get an idea as to where the cemetery was in comparison to the house because the cemetery is still standing and everything. There's actually I was reading there's tunnel systems underneath that connect the cemetery in the house together. So I Trying to get kind of like a little lay of the land here and it's a massive property. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's something strange cross in there somewhere on the property or taking place or whatever the case may be, maybe it is Scotland's Skinwalker Ranch. You know, I think there's a, there's a reason that people do magic people who actually attempt to do magic now.

1:03:16 Like Jake doesn't believe in magic and that's Are right, like whether it's real or not what they're attempting to do is reel, right? Like they're in their intention, in their action and doing the thing, that's a real action. So sure people who feel like they know what they're doing. Use these places all over the world and that's why you have temples going back. Thousands of years built on these very specific ley-line points, right? So same with this, the spot. So I think all these people Crowley and everybody else going back. These Wizards in the stories and everybody else going. Back. They just knew that this was a place that weird shit happens and that you could potentially tap into Whatever the dream world or alternate, reality or Hell, or whatever. Your belief was what is I'm going to go into something that Jeremy said in the last episode that he hates but it's makes me curious these places that are supposedly like so hyper-energetic hyper-energetic intergenic whatever. I don't, you know, a lot of energy with that with all this sort of craziness and stuff is that for people Well, that are just going there, unbeknownst of the area and it just, you know, happens to them or is this people that are specifically looking for an experienced in these sorts of places. Because I would say that a lot of that is unless there's actual evidence of it.

1:04:41 Like like look, man, we're in the age of YouTube, like everyone's got a phone. We talk about this all the time, but everyone's got a phone, you know, say like you know that one bad person. That enforces the law in your area and they're just getting snatched up because people are recording everything that's going on these days. And I do a YouTube search for black magic Conjuring things. Like, you know, willing things into existence, all this sort of stuff. Nothing. But a lot of people talk about it. Not knowing that actually demonstrates any of this stuff, right? And you know, the best we have is I'll see some stupid Ghost Hunter show.

1:05:22 And these people will take a voice out of literally Nothing just scratchy nonsense, just audio garbage that's you know from their sound system and be like it's saying this and it's like no it's not but it's like that's like the extent of it and its I rarely hear. I have heard. I'm not going to be completely on one side. My mom grew up in a house in England that she doesn't believe in ghosts, but she swears there's demonic activity. Like, there was, you know, her and her sister being pushed down the stairs, you know, sort of stuff. There was the Gasping turned on, a lot of weird stuff going on in that house because the lady like killed her whole family and hung herself in it and stuff and it was on a military base but it really old place. So I'm I can say that this stuff doesn't exist around people that aren't suspecting it or expecting it to happen, but it seems that a majority of these sort sort of hotspots, the evidence of that comes from people who are specifically seeking that stuff out.

1:06:26 And I know that Jeremy said this, that he hates it. When people say it's not evidence just because someone was looking for bigfoot, but I feel like this is a valid thing to bring up is that if you're specifically going to An area to be like, this is some place where I'm going to experience something like this and then they haven't experienced, the brain has a great way of doing this for her stuff. You know have having an emotional experience when there's really nothing going on in the same way you could say someone's going out to see Bigfoot and if they didn't capture a picture video and they said that they did. It's possible that they could have seen a shadow and their brain filled in the rest of it to say that they saw Sasquatch when they could have more than likely seen.

1:07:07 Absolutely nothing. And so this is how I'm like I don't think that Aleister Crowley being on this property really has anything to do with Loch Ness or the Loch, Ness monster, anything like that. I think this is just a weird, dude. That was really big, into witchcraft, for whatever reason, whatever people get from that, it happened to be there. I don't and doing drugs. And Sex Magic, like, heaven, though. I agree. That's why I said, I don't think that he has. I don't think that he's the reason for Loch Ness monster. And anyway, I think that he just Knew that that spot was an energy spot. He knew that, you know, the, I think, again, the reason that people are seeing Loch Ness Monsters because it's one of these points of energy is one of these warts vortices of energy, right? I don't know how you describe this. And people are catching a glimpse of something somehow. Even if it's just in the mind, maybe it only affects the mind and that's what's so special about it. I don't know.

1:08:04 But he was just there because that's a spot not because of the monster the monster is not because of him same with the cemetery, same with all of it. That's my whole point. I mean you know Skinwalker Ranch. Which was on the crossroads of Ley lines. You know, I'd be curious as to I'm sure Ley lines have something to do with the lock. I think we talked about this last episode and I believe we found out that it did and if he's somewhere in the general area of the lock. Well, I mean, we should have a Ley lines episode because I've seen those pictures and they're literally everywhere, which means that everywhere there's a Ley line should technically be a hot spot. Spot.

1:08:47 So you have that's what you're getting at. I mean, you know, no, so everywhere that there's a line doesn't necessarily mean too much. It's the cross-sections of those lines. Those are where I hot spots sent tend to be. Now the Ley lines, I'm not going to get too far into it because you're right. We should do a whole episode on it. Right, there are multiple different kinds of Ley lines and let's just talk about one, for example, magnetic lines, right? The, the magnet magnetic flux lines that come off of the planet though. Those there alone are considered to be a type of of Ley line, right? And it doesn't necessarily form the shape of the cast at the two ovals that normal, Mexican a sine wave. Mine's kind of look like a sine wave or whatever, but yeah, you know, alternating sign.

1:09:42 Way is right, where it has, but they kind of they go up and they come down. They just keep circling like this. We know that it makes an infinity symbol through the Earth. No. Yeah, it makes two circles. They don't like this. That's not how flux lines were no, that's what it looks like. If you the hollow Earth, look, I know what you're saying. But magnets magnets mess everything up, right? They mess up the way that animals migrate. They screw up the way that your body will function, your brain will function a high-powered magnet were like, destroy your brain, you know, it's just like, right? Yeah. But what I'm saying, what I'm saying is, you know, to, to Jeff's argument here, is that what if this is a Place where like in the Skinwalker Ranch or many other places that we're going to talk about in the future.

1:10:30 And if you place that we talked in the past like Bridgewater, you know the Bridgewater Triangle up in Massachusetts where we did cheese that the extremely early episode that we did on this show about the alien. Abductions up there from Yes, you don't talk about cashman's. That's so long. You know what I'm talking about with the guy, was he trapped in the beam of light? And he was, and he couldn't move or whatever. You know, I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about? He knows and she talking about. Yeah, I'm looking at him right now. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I think I think we under, I think we all get the point though. This is just probably a spot. It's just a spot where shit happens and people see shit, right?

1:11:15 And I'm sure I'm taking your side, right? Because I don't know, I get that. That I think that, you know, who knows maybe the Loch Ness Monster is part of these interdimensional beings that do only come over here, maybe there's some sort of intelligence to him. I don't know, I don't think so. I really don't be honest with you. I don't think that that's the case here. I think that you would be hearing way more about the area, think news would have gotten out if this was a legitimate cross-section and Ley lines. I mean there could be a small something There. But I don't think it's anywhere near as big as, as a, the Uintah Basin. And right. Yeah.

1:11:56 It's a smaller smaller intersection, you know, of course, but I, you know. Anyways, let's move on because we'll get more into it. And yeah, we're just going to get derail off onto this for another hour, we're going to be chit-chatting too much for our listeners. Berkshire UFO, I'm a okay. Let me rephrase, I'm gonna ask all your previous questions. I told you to hang on, you're going to ask them or answering them and so that's already asked them, you know what I meant? Just carry, answer them. Okay, are you ready? Here we go. I'm ready. Before I can move on to the next research project that the lock, we should talk a bit about West.

1:12:36 What Nessie could be besides a ghost over the years. There have been many different explanations given for what could be mistaken. As the Loch Ness monster such as the plus CS or heels Greenland sharks. Catfish, sturgeon seals, otters and even an elephant on a couple different occasions. Water is a tricky substance and most definitely can play tricks on your eyes. When you have no reference of scale, it is really easy to see a duck or swan out in the distance and make it for the monster and mistake it for the monster. Some can be. Same can be said about many of these other creatures that are mistaken as Nessie. Sturgeon, never stop growing. The largest ever recorded was unjust under 24 feet long and Rupert goold even suggested that it could be a large Newt like animal.

1:13:28 And it's interesting fact about it. This is that they are one of the few animals that can go between fresh and saltwater without issues, and they can grow up to 6 feet long. Perhaps we're just seeing seals swimming together. One, very interesting theory that I stumbled upon claimed that Nessie could be a basis Leo Soros, abbes, Leo, Soros or as Uggla, Don is a large whale estimated to be around 65 feet in length and weigh up to 20 tons. The name bazeley asaurus means king, lizard in Latin and originally it was thought to be a marine reptile similar to the plus CS or however that's not the case at all. The bazeley asaurus is a vicious whale that would rip its prey And to shreds feeding on sharks and other predatory, whales this creature had this creature had a very Sleek body, very serpent or snake-like which would definitely fit the description of a lake monster.

1:14:26 But wait, there's still more to it. What if, it's not an animal, we're seeing it very well, could just be a tree or Driftwood seismic activity, wakes in the water or a simple optical illusion, because of the shape of the lake, it is very To mistake a boat. Wake, as a potential creature in the water, the lock has, what's called an oscillating? Period, which lasts 31 and a half minutes, and is the result of water settling to its natural state after being blown to one side or the other of the lake, an interesting Theory to me was the seismic activity Italian geologist Luigi Picardy suggested that.

1:15:07 Because the locks it's along the fault line. We could just be experiencing smaller. Earthquakes and mistaking. Them is the creature below the water. All of these are very interesting theories, but we still don't have a definitive answer as to what is in the law. The legend of the monster has been tied to the legend of the Kelpie as well. Kelpies are these violent shape-shifting creatures often described as having black horse, like like appearances but they can also take on a human form. All of this, along with the theory that Nessie is a ghost. So what do you think is Nessie a bird or other known animal? Perhaps our eyes are playing tricks on us. Maybe it's maybe it's as simple as floating Driftwood or is Nessie a paranormal entity haunting the lake before we discuss our thoughts on this, I want to bring up a couple different studies that were done. The first one was in 1994 called the Rosetta project. The aim of this project was to drill 6 meters or about 20 feet into the bed of the lock for core samples. The samples were taken from a flat area in the northern Basin at approximately 200 meters or 656 feet. And it was done by using two large suction anchors. Once at the bottom water would be pumped out of the drum like anchor.

1:16:25 And as a result forced into the ground, there were two samples successfully recovered from the lock. And this helped us get a better understanding of the variety of a variety of different things, including that the lock seams together more sediment during the winter. And that is believed that this is p due to the high. Rainfall With this, we are also able to learn that the law Clacks nutrients, such as nitrates and phosphates, which are vital for plant growth with a lack of nutrients. There can't be much of a food chain, which would make it difficult for larger animals to survive. The second research Expedition, I want to bring up took place in 2018, a DNA survey was done to determine what kind of DNA material could be identified within the law DNA.

1:17:13 They did not find included sharks It's sturgeon. Catfish any other large fish, otters or seals nor did they find any sort of reptilian sequences? However, they did find a lot of. And I mean, a lot of appeal, DNA, the high amount of eel DNA found could be because there's lots of small eel swimming at the bottom of the lock or that there's potentially very big eel swimming at the bottom of the lock and very well could explain some of the sightings over the years since a large. Since a large eel has never actually been caught. This is really only a speculation. Did I answer all your questions now? Jake?

1:17:56 I've put on my show hat, I see that. All right, either, it's an eel or it's a flat-out lie. Like even. All right, so when I remember, when I said I was going to blow the lid off this thing. So, I wrote down every portion I work down. A portion of of what you said, is said in 1930. 1933 is when the legend of Loch Ness started, but of course you talk about st. Columba back in 65, 65 ad and he claimed to have seen the creature. Although, his story is a little bit, it's a little bit. Are out there.

1:18:38 I mean some of the claims about him where you know, I don't know how much looking into is done more. So than just, you know, what he said. Like, you know, oh, this guy can raise the dead and all kinds of stuff. Like, I don't know, and I was going to blow the lid off this thing. So I was like, hey, you know, 1933 when was the plesiosaurs discovered? And let me tell you, And like 1890. So that wasn't it? Alright, I was just like, I said her thinking, like this guy, this guy had no idea what this thing was but I don't know exactly how much information was kind of passed around at that time. It's it's hard for me as someone who's lived this entire life. Like, even I had the library at least growing up, right? And then the internet was better than just dial up as I got older but it's hard for me to imagine a time when really, the only information and News, you would get, would be very, very big news like in the modern world or just what's going on around your town.

1:19:54 So, I don't know if it's Discovery like this happen, how widespread it was passed like the scientific Community, right? So that in itself could lend to this idea that maybe they did see something but I agree with. I don't know it weathers Jeff for Jeremy that there's you know, so much. Knology these days and all sorts of stuff that, you know, something just not being found. That would be that big or breeding population and I agree with both of them, like, even just seeing a fish jump, you know? And and and strike in the, you know, wee hours of the morning. You see the ripples that stuff like, you know, 300 yards away.

1:20:36 It just keeps going forever, right? And you imagine like a something the size like a great white shark breaching out of the water, like You'd be able to see that from across the dang Lake, probably, you know, I mean, the lock or whatever. So yeah, I don't, I don't think that. Honestly, I don't think that there was ever anything there, you know, at least, while it was a lock, or a lake or whatever. I looked at that picture of Jeremy sent me of the, of the bone and it. Okay. Yeah, I would have picked that thing up. I would have known right away. With that thing was, you don't have to be an expert to be like, that's not a rock, you know, that's something extra than just a rock, right? Right. But Maybe at some point and then through mythology and stuff, they pass it down and then people have kept the oral Traditions alive and the history of that areas alive.

1:21:26 Because and I think that there's value to that, I don't think that, you know, just like, I'm so far removed from it. But I got married in my Kilt because I'm, you know, a descendant of the Pollock Clan, right? So I have a pollock killed and I got married in it. I think that there's, there's something to be said and value their to Keeping that old way of life somewhat alive whether that's through stories or through traditions and all kinds of stuff that we shouldn't just let go of that because we're in a new century or whatever. Right. So, and if that's their way of doing that of keeping it alive as by, you know, carrying this tradition of like maybe what their the early people there saw at some point, you know, then I guess it makes sense. But I don't think that there's anything near what we'd see or expecting to see a A plays a sore or whatever it is, or ancient whale inside, Loch, Ness. I think that if anything it's an eel or it's nothing fun, great, I sent some pictures over to the Facebook chat. I just want.

1:22:31 I did this as kind of a reference of how big the lock actually is right. It is a decent size body of water. The thing about the lock though is that there's no hidden areas, okay? Doesn't matter where you stand. There's no Part of the lock that you can't see from land. Okay. So there's eyes on this thing at all times, all right? There's there's major roadways, there's tourist attractions, there's all kinds of stuff. There's many, many, many, many, many organizations, who have cameras, right all over that lock, wanting running 24/7. And it's it's kind of ridiculous to think that in a closed environment.

1:23:17 Environment that we have not spotted, true evidence of the Loch Ness monster. I don't know about the eel thing sounds like it could be no idea. I believe people see things right? They see things and they look at the v's and in the water and there you know, because of the lure of the the area, the first and then they jump to is the Loch Ness monster. I don't think it exists. I've stated that for a very long time, I think it's fantastic, though. The is a great story. I if I had a chance to go and investigate the Loch Ness monster, I'd go in a heartbeat just because going to the area, I mean the the historical relevance cryptozoology in is just and it's amazing, right? I would absolutely go.

1:24:11 It would be, it would be a hell of a lot of fun. I I'd never expect it to find anything but I'd give it a hell of a shot, right? Hi clean. The fridge magnet I would grab one and I just to go there for for the the pure I mean she's this is like Supernatural hot spot like this is one of the big ones that you hear about immediately as you jump into this world of the unknown, right? It's Yeah, this is the first one that a lot of people are of. This is one of the king Cryptids Bigfoot and Loch Ness monster. Like if you try to explain what cryptozoology is to somebody, right?

1:24:56 And they're like, wooden block Nest. That's it right Bigfoot. And lots of what I do all the time. I tell people, I we talked about Cryptids and they're like, what's a Cryptid Bigfoot Loch Ness light bulb moments, right? Mythical creatures. Yeah, so but I don't think that there's anything here. I don't think it's fantastic, though. I love it. I love the Loch. Ness monster mad respect but I don't think you exist. Sorry dude. Is this the final thoughts?

1:25:37 I stepped away for water so I missed like the last little bit of Final Countdown, dude. Yeah, it sounds like we're sounds like we're dishing out fine with loud. So I just thought you guys were gonna dish it out. Final thoughts which is fine because my next paragraph is actually titled honorable mentions and final thoughts. Perfect. So there were there were a couple little things here that I thought were interesting and I wanted to mention but I didn't think there was enough stock behind them so I just kind of put them in my honorable mentions here. Alright fair enough. Well yeah I'll just give you mine then since sounds like again we have already kind of done this and you're about to.

1:26:17 So basically basically like I've been saying this whole time I think this is just a hot spot and people in and there's some weird bleed through interaction with something else that's happening, right? Some other reality but you know I don't necessarily think that the Loch Ness Ness Monster is one of those things that people are experiencing because of the hot spot. I think the Loch Ness Monster is a myth. I think other shit might be going on there, right? Because of the other stories, right? Not just the Crowley thing, although that, that whole thing is interesting to me, but the story of The Wizard and shit before, like all of that, just it that's more interesting to me.

1:27:00 So I think that there's something else going on there. People are experiencing other weird, Phenomenon and the Loch Ness Monster is just a myth but it's a good myth because people are making lots of money on it so they just keep dishing it out. Keep you know I guarantee you you know with the all the Discovery Channel shows in the History Channel shows and the monster quest and the whatever whatever. You know, that's what it's all about for them. But there is some weird shit probably going on there. Cancer. I'm glad that you you broke into the DNA samples because right away, I was like, okay, it's a sturgeon Now.

1:27:45 Where's the proof that their sturgeon there? I thought it was a surgeon. To when I started my research, I was determined, I'm like, this sounds like a sturgeon, no sturgeon in the lake right because I looked at up, I was like, are there sturgeon and Loch Ness and I Can't come up with a lot of titles saying you know monsters Sturgeon or something like that but you know, nothing very specific on it on whether or not there were sturgeon in the lake, just people claiming that it could be right? Because and then it the burden of proof would be like, okay, well then are there surgeon in the lake, right?

1:28:25 And so yeah, that DNA sample thing. So, Yeah, I agree with Jeff dang, good story if it makes people money. I mean, that's pretty solid, you know, it's one thing to make a something like the Fresno Nightcrawler which doesn't make anybody any money but claiming that there's a sea creature in there, you know, or whatever monster, you know, and it creates revenue and brings in tourism and stuff. That's pretty legit. Yeah. Anything else you guys want to share your home kid? Good. Loch Ness is a wonder of the Scottish Highlands and the monster that comes with it has captivated people's imaginations for years. Still to this day people report, sightings of the monster more recently an alpaca was taking a swim and was mistaken as Nessie. I think like all other Cryptids no one will be truly happy with the legend of Nessie it without some solid evidence of her existence but before I share my final thoughts I want to share some honorable mentions The Loch Ness Muppet, May 21st of 1977, Anthony doc shells came forward with his picture of the monster. It was, it was arguably one of the most clear images ever produced at the creature.

1:29:47 However, it looked oddly like a muppet given how it looked given how it looked. And the fact that Shields was a magician and a psychic, not many people took him or his picture very seriously. Operation, Clean Sweep ended in 2001 and aimed to isolate any amount of potential DNA from the Loch. Ness monster ultimately, they were unsuccessful and only found two dead, seals approximately, six feet long each in 2003. A man named Lloyd, Scott completed the firt world's first underwater marathon in the Loch Ness, it took him 12 days and he reported no sightings of the monster. Two students claimed to have found a tooth embedded in the side of the deer.

1:30:31 In 2005 after close examination, it was found that the so-called tooth was actually a piece of antler from a barking deer. And was placed as a publicity, stunt for Stephen Alton's, horror novel The Law, Sonar images of 2011. A boat captain named Marcus Atkinson had sonar images of a large object, that seemed to be following his boat. It was later. Determined that the images were nothing more than a bloom of l.j. or zooplankton. There were reports in 2016 that the monster had been found. However it wasn't the monster that everyone had hoped for what was found was a long-lost prop from the 1969, movie the private life of Sherlock Holmes after director Billy Wilder Dimension demanded, the humps of the model, be renewed removed the props, sank to the bottom of the lock and and is still there to this day. But with that gentleman and travelers, we come to the end of Loch Ness monster.

1:31:33 Although I personally do not think there is a plus CS or or basically asaurus swimming in the lake. There's definitely something strange and unknown taking place but beyond that I think they're, I think this is a simple case of misidentification and that our eyes were playing tricks on us. However, I enjoy the idea that there is a plus c assorted ghost, creating Havoc haunting the Waters of Loch Ness. Now, I can tell you, now I can't tell you what exactly people are seeing but I do know that whatever it is, it will continue to capture the world's attention for years to come Passively. Also the end Define ghost. I don't have a definition for ghost but like in your own words, a whole episode dude, because I mean if we're going based off this idea that there's a ghost of it, then that means that there would be ghosts of like all the trillions of fish that have died due to, you know, farming the Seas and all kinds of stuff.

1:32:34 I mean I'm just saying maybe that's what was following. This guy's both 2011 and that's what he caught an image of here's the thing, right? Okay, I'm not a big ghost guy but I'm surprised you said that I was like you don't even believe that we have souls, right? So let's but here's the thing is like we don't we don't understand the the checklist that needs to be finished in order for our ghost to be created. If, if that's what we believe a ghost is right. If it's not a, some Something From Another Dimension or parallel world, Old and it is just, you know, a soul trapped here. We don't know everything that has to be done in order to keep it here.

1:33:26 It may be something where the checklist is rarely completed, okay? And then that would be something where we get an answer of. Well, why isn't there a billion of them or like, why are we not, you know, but as they say in the Navy, To but yeah. Are we not the but with everything, you know, all these Spirits because well we don't know the conditions, right? We don't know what what it takes to actually create one of these. Could it be a such a rare event that, something? Sometimes it happens, right?

1:34:07 Sometimes we get trapped or something gets trapped, some Spirit gets trapped. Could be possibly, right? And could the Loch Ness monster be a Spirit of a place just or no. Probably, but fun to think about though it is it is it is fun to think about because there are a lot of experiences which not to give a spoiler alert to anything, but we may be diving a little bit more into that in an upcoming episode here. Or maybe we'll get some answers. These are good questions that we can have lined up for a possible, guess that might be coming on Rose. So, let's get these hard questions ready.

1:34:47 And maybe I think the important thing to remember because whereas, I don't want to backtrack here. I think the most important thing to remember that horse. No, I'm saying is that this place is plastered with surveillance. Five people cameras, everything else, nothing is ever actually seen again that any if I don't think anything is ever actually seen by anybody? I don't think there's a ghost in the normal sense and anybody's seeing it out in the water. I think Loch Ness Monster is a myth entirely. I just think there's other weird stuff that could be found there man you backtracked hard.

1:35:33 I'm not cracking I'm saying that he's like contemplating like getting more kind of goals all this other stuff like again with let's just remember nobody's ever seen anything. Yeah. So what people have seen stuff it's just not what they think they've seen. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Like I mean you're seeing something right? Nobody's seen the Loch, Ness Monster. I agree. At least not in the sense of any current time frame. Are you sure Ken's are when you were talking about the person who had that Muppet or whatever that puppet, I couldn't recall, which one you said?

1:36:15 Are you sure that wasn't Todd Standing? I'm almost 100% sure that might have bent on standing, not bad. Name, never came up in my research, not a clue. This picture was very specific, Anthony. Will's from 1977. All right, just verifying because that sounds like something I would do. I mean it probably is but if you look up the picture it's very like it literally looks like somebody has a muppet like sock puppet water underneath for those South Park fans.

1:36:58 It's a it's Jennifer Lopez. All right, go ahead. So that's it, guys. We're good. I loved it. I think that you killed it Kinser. I think that you, you definitely open me up to more information than I had cared to look at myself because pray prior to this I had hope and now I don't and so you totally were effective in that and like just breaking it down the same way that Jeff told me that all the pictures of space or fake and ruin my life.

1:37:39 So I mean, The Wonder of sentence, all alai. So, I'm glad I can ruin Loch Ness for you too. For sure agreed. Yes. I'm appreciative of the work that you put into this because I myself would never have cared to do the research on lock. Monster. But you know it's like when you watch a documentary for no reason but then the and you're like that was a good documentary. Yeah that's how I feel right now. So nice. Jeremy. I think you did a great job kid. I think you're fantastic. You're you're batting a thousand you doing really good? Real quick. The next presenter will be Jakob and yaakov, would you like to announce the episode that I will not be here for no. How good?

1:38:32 Now I don't always has his mystery topics. Well, the likelihood that I'm going to change my mind halfway through prayer or halfway through finishing up, my research on it and start in my type up is probably like 90%. So I could just wing it on, you know. I don't think that all of our episodes have to be two and a half hours long. I like that Ken's our bus out an hour-long episode and this one's gonna be like an hour and 40 minutes or something. So like that. I think that I could probably squeeze in a short Cryptid episode. We could chat about it for a little bit and we could throw those in there. So who knows maybe ends up being too long and I'm like, all right. Well, I'm gonna shelf that one because the next week I'm not going to be here for and I'll just do you know, something smaller.

1:39:25 So I'd rather not say because I don't want to be disappointing because the Navy does that to me all the time though, I go deployment. Four months and like 11 months, ha ha. Psych, you know, I don't like doing that to people. So, well, I mean, unless you want to change recording dates, I will not be here because I'll be having another child flashing. My wange recording dates. You have to be here for it. We'll see. But all right, kid. Good job. Thank you so much. That has been another episode of the infinite revered whole podcast, if you want to join the conversation ahead. Over to facebook.com and join our Facebook group took over hosting. I always do the outros.

1:40:11 I always you know truth. Do you want to do it? Good kid. Yeah, I just I had an ultra written up though because I assumed I was doing the outro. What exactly what you were just saying, though. Hands. Are you gonna? Yeah. Okay, make sure you check out our website and find it Rabbit Hole.com, where you can find all of our awesome merch. Listen to old episodes and have the Option to leave us a voicemail. If you'd really like to get involved in the conversation, join our Facebook group. We also have a Twitter Instagram and Tick-Tock or you can contact us at infinite rabbit hole at gmail.com. Thank you Travelers for joining us today. We look forward to having you next time as we jump down yet another infinite Rabbit Hole by.

1:40:55 I was just passing the inferior. Whatever my