239. Heart of Ice: Tracking the Wendigo w/ Jason Hewlett

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Imagine this slide.
At this point in time, somewhere

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in the past, the timeline
commuted into this tangent,

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creating an alternate 1985
alternate.

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You need Einstein reality for
everyone else.

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Welcome back to the Infinite
Rabbit Hole.

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I'm your host Jeremy, and
tonight we got a special guest.

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This time our guest is here
because Jason.

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Jason doesn't blow us off.
That's right, I don't.

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No, we fun.
Fun fact we we had the same guy

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blow us off 4 times in a row.
Oh, wow.

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No, yeah, no, no.
I felt bad for having just to

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push it back a week.
We're going to be somewhere.

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Show up.
Fool me once, you know, and then

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fool me 4 times.
That sucks what people do.

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Shame on, shame on me for sure.
But Yep, secret's out.

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We got Jason Hewlett in the
house today, old boss man from

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the Paranormal Network.
Yeah, which we were just talking

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before going live, like those
days ended already almost three

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years ago.
That's crazy.

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It's unfathomable.
It just seems nuts.

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Jeff has three years more worth
of Gray in his beard.

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It's depressing, actually.
Y'all do man, like I don't know.

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I got way more than I did then.
I got 2 strands popping up right

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here.
My wife lets me know.

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Yeah, you're welcome.
So Jeffrey, you got anything

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before we get going, bud?
No, I don't like this layout.

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Change it you.
Don't like it?

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No, I don't like it.
Change is hard.

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Change is hard.
Yeah.

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Go back.
Go back to my.

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There we go.
Yeah, I see.

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Yeah.
That's much better.

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You say it made.
It so skinny.

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That it was cutting off half of
Jason.

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Yeah, it was cutting off Jason's
face.

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So that's widescreen.
Have that glorious widescreen.

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This is much better, thank you.
All right, cool.

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Wow, you let AI do the work and
and this is what you get.

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Exactly.
Don't just rely on the AI, all

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right?
Well, Jason, welcome back, man.

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It's, it's hasn't been too long.
It's been what, a year now?

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You're in a.
You're in a bit.

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Little bit.
Little bit talking about a year

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what we talk about the last
time.

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We talked about Oga Pogo, but we
also talked about near death

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experiences.
Yes, that's right.

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That's right.
So yeah, it was probably about a

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year ago.
Yeah, because it was, I want to

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say it was just before Oba Pogo
came out.

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Yeah, which that came out in,
depending on when you saw it or

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read the book, like it came out
at like Monster Fest in late

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June, July 1st of last year.
That's cool, man.

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Yeah, you're, you're a busy guy.
Yeah, like really getting busier

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somehow.
I don't know how.

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Yeah, it's like every time I see
a post from you, it's like a a

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new thing that you're doing.
I'm like, jeez man, save some of

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this for everybody else.
I look at it when people want to

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work with you, you might as well
work with them because one day

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no one's going to want to have
anything to do with you.

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So I might as well enjoy it
while it lasts and just sort of

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take it all in and.
That's not true.

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You'll always have a place here
for you.

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Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate that.

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Yeah.
So let's let's do a quick recap

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of all the cool stuff that
you've gotten into.

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You you're doing a radio show
now.

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Tell us about that.
Yeah, it's called.

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Well, remember you and I chatted
like earlier this year I had you

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on, I was doing a podcast called
Paranormal Theories and it

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actually I had to put it on hold
because of kind of what we're

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going to be talking about a bit
tonight.

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And then like on my birthday in
July, this guy who was the

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Canadian content for creator for
Sandcastle Radio out of Florida

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approached me saying they wanted
to do a paranormal show and

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they'd looked at a whole bunch
of people and they really wanted

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me to do it.
And so I did.

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What I usually do is I said yes
without thinking about it.

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Too much.
And so I've been doing that.

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And so now it's called
paranormal theories.

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It's just going to continue what
I was trying to do on the

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podcast, like interviewing
people within the field and

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stuff like that.
And and then, you know, it's an

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hour Long live show every
Tuesday night at 5 Pacific on

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Sandcastle Radio and you can
listen on sandcastleradio.org or

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download their free app.
But it's all over the world.

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That's really cool.
That's awesome, man.

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You got some big names on there.
I've seen Seth Breedlove.

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Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Ryan Sprague was on.

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Jesse Doyle from Hellbent Holler
has been on so far and I'm lined

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up.
A bunch of people coming up as

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well and I'm working on a few
others.

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So it's been, it's been really
cool.

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I'd love to pick Jessie's brain.
Yeah, she's super interesting.

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Like super interesting to talk
to.

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Lots of high energy, really
cool.

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I brought her on like when they
put out there, you know, the

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Monster on Morris Mountain
documentary that STM put out.

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Yeah.
So, yeah, tied into that.

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So, yeah, no, it's been, it's
been a lot of fun.

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It's been a lot of fun.
It's it's a, it's a, as you

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know, putting on a weekly show
can be a fair amount of work,

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but I have a great time doing
it.

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And it's just a little bit, you
know, but I enjoy it and I enjoy

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talking to people about this,
this stuff as you guys do,

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right.
So it's been really cool to kind

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of just do that, not have to
worry about turning it into a

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documentary or writing a book
about it.

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That's awesome, man.
That's awesome.

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Speaking of getting out there,
right?

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So Wendigo, you've been getting
dirty.

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The Wendigo you can.
That's a good question or

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something.
You've been, you've been getting

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out in the woods, man.
I've seen a bunch of pictures, a

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bunch of video clips of you out
there.

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Tell us about this man.
All right, so back after writing

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Legend of Ogo Pogo, you know,
and Cursed Waters was coming

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out, I just kind of found I had,
I had not much to do.

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So I just started researching
different stuff and, you know,

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the Cadburasaurus and Wendigo
were kind of at the top of my

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list.
And I've been interested in the

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Wendigo story since I was a kid
because there was an Incredible

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Hulk comic from back in the 70s,
late 60s, early 70s where the

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Incredible Hulk fought a
Wendigo.

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Really.
And in in the comic it was

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depicted as like basically like
a white Bigfoot and it was

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somebody on the Canadian N the
Hulk fights the, you know, weird

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way out Wendigo.
And I always thought the Wendigo

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was like a comic book character,
basically, But I've soon

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discovered as I got older that
it wasn't.

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And it's actually a very real
Cryptid.

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It's a Canadian folk story and
Indigenous roots.

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So I've always been interested
in it.

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So I decided that I was going to
do research and put together a

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book on the Wendigo.
And I was talking with Eli

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Watson, who I, I made Cursed
Waters with.

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And he's like, what are you
writing about next?

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And I'm like the Wendigo.
And he's like, dude, you should

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talk to Heather.
Heather Moser, a small town

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Moss.
There it is.

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Yeah, you can see it the there's
2 covers, but there's one,

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right?
Here.

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There and then also if you go
over towards the other side in

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the middle, well, it doesn't
mean big in very much.

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But yeah, it's probably a
Wendigo.

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It's like it looks like a white
Sasquatch.

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Yeah, you can see it there.
That's Wildman.

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Go ahead.
I'm sorry I didn't.

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Mean it.
It was supposed to look like.

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Right.
Well, OK, so so when we're we're

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on the topic of its physical
description right there there is

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if you've ever stepped foot in a
Cryptid Facebook group or

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anything, the wise right there's
this infamous argument over what

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a what a Wendigo is supposed to
look like and when the Chad

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Lewis Chad Lewis had come out
with a book a while ago and he.

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He.
Yeah, that's a good, good book.

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He kind of cleared that up a bit
and I see I so going off of the

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the cover of your book, you went
with Stag Head.

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Yeah, that's the, because that
was kind of a it was a good

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decision in terms of marketing
because that's the one most

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people are familiar with
nowadays, right?

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It's the stag headed thing.
But the Wendigo initially didn't

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even have a physical form.
It was basically something that

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took you over.
Like you went Wendigo and then

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you're working, pal.
You started seeing your loved

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ones is is like game meat and
you started eating them and and

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that was just sort of what
happened.

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And you kind of went, you were
possessed by this spirit.

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Then the book came out called
The Wendigo and suddenly like,

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I'm gapping out.
Elginon Blackwood wrote a

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novella called The Wendigo, and
that was the first time it was

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depicted as any kind of flesh
and blood creature.

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And initially there were no
horns.

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It was more like what people
describe a rake you have that

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you have.
That I I did not.

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Once get ahead of me, Sir.
I have it upstairs.

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Yeah, I sure do.
That's awesome.

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But that's awesome.
It's for those that are that are

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looking for like legitimate, I
don't know, like an

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entertainment book on the
Wendigo.

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It's not what you think it is.
No, it's a.

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No, it's, it's a.
It's a bit different.

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Yeah, it's a very different kind
of book, but it it put it into

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sort of a physical form for the
first time.

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So now, especially because
Supernatural did an episode

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about the when to go back and
like its first season, everyone

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sees it as this flesh and blood
thing.

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So there's there's a bit of
debate that's and that's sort of

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the other kind of the book
cover, which comes out tomorrow,

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by the way, from small town.
If you're, if you're listening

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to this, not live, it's coming
out today.

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That's right, yes, 'cause I
saying that's more of the

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marketing marketing strategy,
right, 'cause that's the the

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version a lot of people are
familiar with nowadays when they

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read the book.
I explain.

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Look, I, Chad Lewis is one of
the many people I interviewed

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for the book and we got into
that quite a bit.

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Same with Ronald Murphy.
There's an author, researcher

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and folklorist.
So we we touch on a lot of those

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different aspects of it.
Good, that's good man.

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Did you ever find out where the
where the stag head came from?

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It's just something that
developed over time.

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I think that's the same time
that Ron, I know Sam Sheeran

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actually was talking about it
because I interviewed him and it

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as well, because that sort of
became the pop culture version

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of it.
But it's like if you look at

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depictions, it gives it kind of
more of that demonic devil like

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appearance, you know what I
mean?

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And it kind of fits into
something a little more

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sinister.
And I think that just kind of

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became then there are some
indigenous folk stories where

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they it did have a horn on its
head.

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The Wendigo is kind of, there's
lots of different versions of

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the story depending on which
tribe.

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It's primarily an Algonquin Cree
legend, but there's other parts

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where they call it like the
Witigo and different spelled a

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bit different.
So I think it's what you're

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seeing today is like an
amalgamation of a lot of

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different stories that have
brought it together into

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something that I think people
are just trying to find easily

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digestible in terms of it being
a story now.

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And I mean, people are saying
they're seeing Wendigo.

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It's in the woods, right?
And it's, which I find really

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fascinating too, that now that's
something that was strictly A at

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first, almost like a
psychological mental health

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00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,200
thing has become a Cryptid.
The variation on a Cryptid even

226
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,040
it's got more supernatural
properties than like the average

227
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,600
Cryptid.
Although now that we could go on

228
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,680
a whole topic about just that.
Oh yeah.

229
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,880
Alone this is kind of
supernatural paranormal

230
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,240
cryptids, but for the window
goes sake, it's become something

231
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,040
a lot more tangible in the
public's eye.

232
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,680
Jeff, you got anything, bud?
He's a fish out of water on

233
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,520
this.
I yeah, I don't know shit about

234
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,760
this.
To be honest.

235
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,760
So I'm I'm just here for here
for the ride.

236
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,520
You know, I'm keeping the chat
entertained.

237
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,280
Right now I'm arguing with
somebody because he wanted to go

238
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,080
fishing in 20 mile an hour winds
and I'm not doing it.

239
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,240
He's having a whole like
conversation in the chat right

240
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:53,840
now.
It's awesome.

241
00:12:54,400 --> 00:13:00,840
He's a he's a great guy.
Let's see, I lost track.

242
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,720
So you said that you were you
were halfway in with with Caddy

243
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,280
and and the indigo.
Yeah, Caddy's interesting.

244
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,720
Caddy's super interesting.
I I was hesitant to do another

245
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,600
aquatic creature book after
writing about Ogo Pogo, though.

246
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,080
You know what I mean?
You wanted to do, I wanted to do

247
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,320
something a bit different.
And yeah, but what happens when

248
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,640
I mention that?
Pardon me.

249
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,280
It's different enough.
I think so.

250
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,840
And it's it's on my To Do List.
Obviously, especially being in

251
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,160
British Columbia, it wouldn't be
hard to kind of go down and and

252
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,840
write something on it.
But when I kind of mentioned the

253
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,680
when to go to Eli, he's like, I
should talk to Heather and asked

254
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,880
him because they were going to
do like a Wendigo film the next

255
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,200
year.
So this year kind of thing.

256
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,440
And I'm like, OK.
And everything just kind of went

257
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,600
from there.
They were interested in the

258
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,200
book.
So they we went ahead and signed

259
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,680
on with for the book and then
eventually they were going to do

260
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,160
the movie, Eli was going to do
it.

261
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,000
And then I think at one point
Seth was going to do it.

262
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,480
And then they knew they wanted
the book out in time for

263
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,560
Halloween and I'm up in Canada.
So they said ask me if I wanted

264
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,440
to to do it.
And so I said, sure, I'll do

265
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,000
that too.
That's good, man.

266
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,720
It's awesome how that just fell
into place for you like that.

267
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:12,920
Good storms.
Yeah.

268
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,440
It worked out.
So you're doing a lot of work

269
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,240
with small town monsters now?
Yes.

270
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,360
I see that.
Are you, are you like officially

271
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,800
part of the crew now?
Like what's going on here, man?

272
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,320
Give us the deets.
It's I, I work on contract for

273
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,080
them creating like shows that
are basically based on Canadian

274
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,400
content for them.
And so that's where like the

275
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,440
Wendigo project has come in and
I'm working on something else

276
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,680
that I can talk a bit more about
it.

277
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,080
Give me about another month or
so and I could talk about that.

278
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,880
And then there's some other
stuff coming down the Pike.

279
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,720
So the focus right now is
definitely very much on on

280
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,000
Wendigo.
They were really happy with O go

281
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,920
Pogo, like the book and cursed
waters, you know, then having

282
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,880
hung out with them, you know
that that monster fest last year

283
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,760
and stuff like that, you build
up a good rapport.

284
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,520
And I mean you.
You, if you work hard and put

285
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,840
out something good like get
along with people, it's amazing

286
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,680
what can happen.
That's that's awesome, man,

287
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,560
because they got like an All
Star crew there and it's it's I

288
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,160
couldn't be more happy for you.
That's awesome group to get in

289
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,200
with.
Yeah, I, I, I'm feeling very

290
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,080
blessed, like super, super lucky
to to be doing this and to be

291
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,600
working with them.
And they are all amazing people.

292
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,640
And they're all, they all
approach it the same way I like

293
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,880
to approach it.
Which you take this seriously.

294
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,200
Like if you do the work, you do
research the the stories and the

295
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,120
legends and you you don't like
over dramatize it or anything or

296
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,000
sensationalize anything.
You just put the stories out

297
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000
there and let people decide for
themselves what they think all

298
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,560
this stuff is.
And that's always been the way

299
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,480
I've liked to approach things.
Yeah, they got.

300
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:52,880
I mean, wasn't Linda Godfrey a
part of that at one point too?

301
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,320
Before she passed I believe.
I'm not sure.

302
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,720
I think she was.
I know, I know.

303
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,080
Seth Breedlove, Shan Legrow.
I think Ken Gerhard's in there

304
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,360
too.
Yeah, he does stuff with them

305
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:05,320
from time to time.
And Lyle.

306
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,120
Lyle Blackburn has Lyle, Yeah.
The guy I'll be working with in

307
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,480
two.
Days, which I'm super.

308
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,200
Fucking nervous about yeah.
And Lyle's, Lyle's great too.

309
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,160
I actually got had the pleasure
of meeting him and it's he was

310
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,120
really nice to talk to.
Really cool that that makes it a

311
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,680
little bit better.
Yeah.

312
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,880
I'm slightly jealous.
And then I, I know there's,

313
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,400
there's a lot of, you know,
smaller pieces of it too, but I

314
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,720
mean, just just that cast alone,
man, that's a that's a hell of a

315
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,200
cast.
You're you're up there in the

316
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,120
the pantheon now, Jason.
Oh, thank you very much.

317
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,560
It's, it's a, it's been an
honor.

318
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,720
It's also pretty intimidating at
times, or it can be, but the

319
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,800
more I I do with them, the
better I feel about what I'm

320
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,160
doing.
And working on the this book and

321
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,560
the doc was like really a great
experience.

322
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,000
So the So the Moore has a
question, he said.

323
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,240
So when researching lore, do you
dig up old books?

324
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,760
What kind?
Of kind of research can books,

325
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,359
paper, you know, papers.
Nathan Carlson wrote a great

326
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,079
piece about the Wendigo and how
it ties into to his indigenous

327
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:10,440
lore.
And that was an invaluable tool.

328
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,200
And for other projects I've got
coming up, yeah, I'm digging

329
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,760
into whatever book I can find on
it.

330
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,359
I don't just sit on the Internet
and, and you know, Chat GT GPT

331
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,160
for information or anything like
that.

332
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,839
I, I was a newspaper reporter
for 10 years.

333
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:26,760
So I have I like to old school
approaches to researching as

334
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,600
much as I can.
Good.

335
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,000
To get the right kind of
information and find the right

336
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,280
people to talk to, right?
Yeah.

337
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,600
That's, that's the other half
the battle is finding, you know,

338
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,560
people to talk to.
In the case of Wendigo, because

339
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,720
it is an Indigenous story.
I was really lucky to be

340
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,360
connected through Morgan Knutson
with Alicia Perot Werner, who's

341
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,600
a Cree in northern Alberta to,
to get her aspect on on the

342
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,280
Wendigo.
And there's an an encounter

343
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,080
story in the book that involved
Alicia and and Morgan that we

344
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,400
actually got to follow up on and
investigate, which was really

345
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,080
cool.
That's cool, man.

346
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,960
Newton, too, huh?
That's look at you, man.

347
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,680
Jeez, Come on, boss man.
Share the love.

348
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,160
Look at look at Jeff over there.
He's he's shocked.

349
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:11,560
He doesn't know any of these
people.

350
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,480
I know, I know Blackburn.
That's the only name that I've

351
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,520
recognized.
Do you?

352
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,320
Yeah, I don't know how.
Is that a show or something?

353
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,480
He's been out quite a few TV
shows, yeah.

354
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,040
There you go, that's what it is.
No, it's not.

355
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,960
It's because I said something
about him last week.

356
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,200
It might be that.
When I found out I was working

357
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,200
with him on Tuesday.
Well, no, I mean, I've seen like

358
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,680
all the shows, right?
And you you slap on some

359
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,600
Discovery Channel or History
Channel like I've seen it,

360
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,960
right, But outside of that.
Lyle Blackburn is famously known

361
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,600
as the guy with the the leather
cowboy hat.

362
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,000
Yes, he also like popularized
that, didn't he?

363
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,040
Yeah, here.
I'll.

364
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,280
I'll show you guys a picture.
I thought that was all the

365
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,800
Cryptid guys, man, Isn't that
like a law that the Cryptid guys

366
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,840
have to wear?
Yeah, that hat.

367
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,760
Ken Gerhart has a similar hat.
Ken Gerhart does have a similar

368
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,680
hat.
I haven't seen this guy before.

369
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,080
Yeah, Lyle, man, he's a he's a
bad ass.

370
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,480
Seems.
Like a rock band too?

371
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,560
Oh, yeah, it does.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's something.

372
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,880
I can't remember the name of it.
It's something spooky.

373
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,160
Yeah, yeah.
Can't definitely falling short

374
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,560
on me.
I'm not going to sit here and

375
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,240
waste 10 minutes thinking about
it, though.

376
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:37,440
Let's see, man.
So where do you want to go?

377
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,400
You seem you seem like you have
just everything on your plate

378
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,000
right now.
Where, where?

379
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,520
What's the end goal for for Mr.
Hewlett?

380
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:47,760
What do you?
What do you?

381
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,040
Want to do like I'm kind of
exactly where I kind of always

382
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,800
wanted to be, if that makes
sense.

383
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,400
Like when I was a kid, I
thought, you know, this is I'm

384
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,080
going to age myself here, like a
lot of most of my like youth and

385
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,280
teen years were through the 80s.
But I thought mad, wouldn't it

386
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,600
be cool?
To sort of investigate, you

387
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,600
know, paranormal phenomenon,
write a, write books about it

388
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,480
and, and make movies about it.
And then I remember, I, I kind

389
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,600
of set pause like earlier this
year and was like, holy shit,

390
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,520
that's exactly what I'm doing
right now.

391
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,560
Like, and so I, I, I'm just
excited to be doing this and to

392
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,320
actually, you know, be able to
take it seriously, like take a

393
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,680
serious approach to it and have
the time to do it right.

394
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,640
And to work with people that are
like minded.

395
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,280
And, and to have people like
read it, read the, read the

396
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,120
books and watch, watch the
films.

397
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,720
And, you know, the, the, with
tracking the Wendigo, which

398
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,560
comes out at the end of the
month.

399
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,080
That's the first time, I think
this first feature length

400
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,760
documentary I've made.
So it's the first time it's

401
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,720
something like that that I've
made is going to actually hit

402
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,520
public eye.
And I'm kind of really curious

403
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,280
how people will react to that
kind of thing and just see what

404
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,000
happens.
So Curse Waters didn't have.

405
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,120
It was, it was, but Eli directed
that, right?

406
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,680
Like Eli wrote and directed it
and I was kind of the primary

407
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,840
researcher and a part of that.
So that was great and it went

408
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,720
over really well.
People really, really liked it.

409
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,520
And we screened it at the Town
Theatre here in British Columbia

410
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,200
in Vernon last October, had the
kind of the Canadian premiere

411
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,040
and people loved it, which was
great.

412
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,560
But this is 1 where it's like I,
it's kind of like a all on me

413
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,960
kind of thing in terms as the
writer, the director and the one

414
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,000
who did, you know, put
everything together and did all

415
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,800
the travelling around and, and
all that.

416
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,240
So I'm really curious just to
see how people will react if

417
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,520
they'll like it.
I think the Wendigo story is so

418
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,520
fascinating and it's obviously
it's popular enough, right?

419
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,840
And well known, like movies like
Antlers have been made with the

420
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,800
Wendigo and like video games
like Until Dawn.

421
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,280
So I think there's people out
there who are really interested

422
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,360
in it.
So hopefully it'll just react

423
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,360
well with all those people who
are curious about the Wendigo

424
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,000
and just see what happens.
I want to say, OK, so I don't.

425
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,920
I don't watch.
I don't play a lot of video

426
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,080
games and I don't watch a lot of
movies.

427
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,720
I know they just came out with
the movie for Until Dawn.

428
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,360
I haven't seen it yet, but I
played the game shoot five years

429
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,640
ago probably.
They came out like 1010 years

430
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,760
ago.
And I want to say that they did

431
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,320
it pretty good too, didn't they?
They actually.

432
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,360
They actually have your when to
go without the horns, like they

433
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:06,880
have that version of it.
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,960
And it just bring me back to all
the research that I did because

435
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,600
I, I did a A2 part series back
when we had Kenzar on as a guest

436
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,080
for this show, before she was
even a host.

437
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,560
She she had reached out to us
and was just like, Hey, you guys

438
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,640
are are kind of cool.
You know what's up?

439
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,400
Thanks for making a, a semi
decent podcast.

440
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,040
And I'll be like, fuck, dude,
this is like, I'm, I'm counting

441
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,040
this as fan mail.
So no, I'm just kidding.

442
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960
She was actually super, super
cool, man.

443
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,280
Honestly, without, without that
e-mail, I don't know, man.

444
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,680
We probably never would have
gotten the springboard that we

445
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,160
needed to still be here five
years ago or five years after.

446
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,160
So I owe a lot to to kid She's
she's phenomenal.

447
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,440
And I asked her what she wanted
to come on and do.

448
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,760
She's like, well, I want to do
something, you know, Canadian

449
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,000
and Cryptid.
So I just threw a bunch of

450
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,840
Canadian cryptids at her and I
said choose one of these.

451
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,920
She's like blendigo.
I'm like, sure, let's do it.

452
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,640
So I I doubt I dove right in
man, and I found out some crazy

453
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,840
shit like boiling bare tallow
and shoving it down people's

454
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,160
throats to fight off the the
cold heart.

455
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:25,800
You have to melt because the
heart.

456
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,520
That's why the book's called
Heart of Ice, because if you're

457
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,560
taken by the Wendigo, your heart
literally turns to ice.

458
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,080
You have to either melt it with
hot tallow or shatter it.

459
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,520
Like cut the body open, RIP it
apart, shatter the heart, burn

460
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,800
the remains and bury all the
different pieces.

461
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,800
Yeah, it's like you have to
decapitate it and literally move

462
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,360
it to different parts, like as
as far as you can from each

463
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:51,760
other so that they don't
coagulate back together, right?

464
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,720
And it's like fucking crazy,
man.

465
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:54,880
It's crazy.
It's crazy.

466
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,920
The lore.
The lore is so deep on it, it's

467
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,920
incredible.
And no one knows where it starts

468
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,000
like a swift runners like the
where the story really became

469
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,080
known in the public
consciousness because he's he's

470
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,160
the guy that, you know, murdered
and ate his family in the

471
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,960
Tawatana Valley.
And then he was like the first

472
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,880
guy hung in Western Canada at
Fort Saskatchewan.

473
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,440
And he claimed he was taken over
by a Wendigo.

474
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,000
So if it became a court case,
you know what I mean?

475
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,800
And that's where Wendigo first
got heard in in modern, western

476
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,960
modern, like, you know, we're
going way back late 1800s.

477
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,800
But what's the society?
Do you go over that in the book?

478
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,680
Yeah, covered all in the book.
Yeah, and we're talking about

479
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,920
Jack Fiddler, the Jack Fiddler
story.

480
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,400
He's the guy who was a Wendigo
killer, him and his brother, and

481
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,280
he was arrested by the Northwest
Mounted Police for murder,

482
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,760
basically, even though he
thought he was doing right.

483
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:43,680
You know what I mean?
Like.

484
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,520
He was out there, vigilante in
it.

485
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,280
Yeah, well, he'd be asked to do
it by members of his tribe

486
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,520
because they would believe that,
you know, enemy tribes would

487
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,040
like curse them with the
Wendigo.

488
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,880
Or if a family member was
possessed by the Wendigo, you

489
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,080
had to kill them.
Otherwise it would just kill

490
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,880
everyone in in your tribe.
Right.

491
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,840
And that too became a court case
and got known.

492
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,240
So this isn't like just like
some ghost story it it's

493
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,120
actually known and cataloged in
Canadian Canadian criminal law,

494
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,520
which makes it a true Crime
Story too.

495
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,840
Yeah, the the fiddler ones new
to me.

496
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,400
I I can't wait to get your book
and read up on that.

497
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,640
That's pretty cool.
But the Swift runner man that

498
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,680
anybody grab Jason's book freed
up on swift runners account.

499
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,040
That is the man.
I don't even have words for it.

500
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,720
It's disturbing.
It's extremely disturbing and

501
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,840
it's heart wrenching and
horrible.

502
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:52,720
It's terrible, man.
But just to, to kind of

503
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,720
highlight the, the real world or
real life aspect of what this,

504
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000
this lore, this legend does,
right?

505
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:09,080
Yeah, It's, it's incredible.
You know, even if there isn't,

506
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,840
let's say like an actual Wendigo
spirit, right?

507
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,400
There's still something that
happens to humans at some point

508
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:26,680
after a certain level of hunger.
And that's what they that's kind

509
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,480
of what they gave the title
Wendigo to was that that

510
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,880
breaking point.
And it's it there are just like

511
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:42,040
you were saying, so many well
documented stories of people

512
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,200
crossing that line and doing
some absolutely horrendous

513
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,560
things to people They love
people, you know who they

514
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:59,200
fathered mothered people who
they married their own parents.

515
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,440
It's fucking brutal man.
I have no way also put it.

516
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,640
It is, it's a, it's like a real
life Horror Story.

517
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Like, you know, Hollywood can't
come up with something worse

518
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,760
than, than the Wendigo story,
right?

519
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,520
Like it's, it's, it's in the
actual DSM.

520
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,160
So like the, you know, medical
diagnostic book for mental

521
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,320
health, they call it Wendigo
psychosis.

522
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,640
It's primarily amongst amongst
indigenous people of the

523
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,640
Algonquin and Cree tribe.
But that's the DSM trying to put

524
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,840
something very complicated into
simple terms for people to

525
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,800
understand, right?
Like it's.

526
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,880
It's.
Crazy it's, it's, it's one of

527
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,680
those ones that really cross it
like, and if you go to northern

528
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Alberta, which I did to research
the book and to work on the

529
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,240
film, people there very much
believe in the Wendigo and that,

530
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,480
that it's still out there and
that you, you don't even want to

531
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,120
say its name because it, that
will draw it, draw it out and

532
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,680
after you.
And so it's, it was just five

533
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,520
people are still having Wendigo
sightings up there and

534
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,240
experiences that they're
attributing to the Wendigo

535
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,840
because it just fits into that,
that lore.

536
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,280
Like even, you know, a voice of
someone, you know, in the woods

537
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,800
at night, calling you out,
trying to lure you out into the

538
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,080
woods, you know, to, to get you
like, it's just these things are

539
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,080
still happening today.
And it's to me, it's fascinating

540
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,480
that it's, it's so prevalent.
It's peak spooky, man.

541
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,400
Yeah, it's.
Really, it is peak spooky.

542
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,800
It, it, it is.
And to work when working on the

543
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,320
film, my colleague Olivia and I
actually, because there's a

544
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,400
Wendigo report sighting reported
near where I live up here in the

545
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,360
interior of British Columbia.
And that's talked about in the

546
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,600
story in the book.
And Pete ran my colleague and I

547
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,040
go out to do a bit of
investigation.

548
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,480
But after that, my colleague
Olivia and I went out for the

549
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520
documentary and decided to do a
full on investigation at night,

550
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,800
you know, in the cooler months
to see if we could foolishly

551
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,200
lure one of these things out
kind of thing.

552
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,120
And it was it was really
interesting.

553
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,520
And it was I had something
happen doing it that I thought

554
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,440
was one of the things that made
me at least jump the most sure

555
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,600
thing that I had happened, which
I don't want to talk about

556
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,920
because I eventually want people
to watch the documentary when it

557
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,240
comes out in a few weeks.
But that became a wrap around

558
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,880
story for the documentary.
And the book is kind of the

559
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,520
middle portion of the of the
film, but it's so much more

560
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,240
material, like talking to Sam
Sheeran about this, the

561
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,800
Wendiglen pop culture, all the
different ways that it is trying

562
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,640
to track down the origins and
how it relates to other similar

563
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,120
mythologies around the world,
like with the Wild Hunt and

564
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,960
where the Adlers come from and
all that kind of stuff.

565
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,440
So I tried to make the book as
comprehensive as I could,

566
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,280
knowing that it was following up
Chad Lewis's very good book on

567
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,160
the subject.
But anything Chad Ford as well

568
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,480
was like great for the for the
book and the film was

569
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,080
phenomenal.
And he's super enthusiastic.

570
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,480
Well, we can talk about Chad
Lewis later.

571
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,560
I, I actually live in the town
you went to College in.

572
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,280
Yeah.
Yeah, He went.

573
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,480
He went to Stout, University of
Wisconsin Stout, which is right

574
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,440
down the road for me.
That's awesome.

575
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,000
Yeah, I showed up at the there's
a little bookstore, Dragon Tales

576
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,560
Books right here on Main Street,
and they got signed books by him

577
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,640
and everything.
It's pretty cool.

578
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,320
That is cool.
That's very cool.

579
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,040
That's like, yeah, he's a great.
I never got to meet him in

580
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,640
person, but boy, it would be
really great to sit down and

581
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,800
actually talk to him.
I'd love to talk to him too.

582
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,560
Want.
To be awesome.

583
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,840
All right, so Speaking of
sightings, OK, as a researcher,

584
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,040
let's let's put you in a
scenario based setting, right?

585
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:38,280
Someone approaches you with with
let's say or our group of people

586
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,600
approach you with sightings
personally emailed to you right.

587
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:51,160
How are you filtering these out
from, from, from cases that

588
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,920
you're going to use and you're
going to actually look into from

589
00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,840
cases that you're pretty certain
are either false

590
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,560
misidentification, what not
right?

591
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,280
And I, I asked this because
there's typically with a lot of

592
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,680
cryptic creatures, right, or
paranormal lore.

593
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,920
There's usually a fine line
somewhere where people can cut

594
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:28,840
off and say, OK, for example,
Momo, right, the Missouri

595
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,240
monster, I think he was in the
70s.

596
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,840
There was a, a researcher from
the International UFO Network or

597
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,360
something.
Not, not MUFON.

598
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,960
It was something completely
different out of Oklahoma who

599
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,120
showed up at this guy's
property, the the main property

600
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,520
camped out looking for Momo.
And he was there to see if there

601
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:54,440
was any connection, possible
connection between Momo and UFOs

602
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,000
because there was also a large
flat that happened around the

603
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,040
same time in the area.
He was interviewed for a local

604
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,240
newspaper and in that local
newspaper, he described Momo as

605
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,720
having a gigantic head, which is
something that we all know it as

606
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,560
having.
But then he also slipped in the

607
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,240
description of bright glowing
orange eyes.

608
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:22,560
That right there highlights a
point in in anything reported

609
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,480
past that point with any orange
glowing eyes, to me at least as

610
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,960
false because that was the very
first time anybody ever

611
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,160
introduced the creature or
described the creature as having

612
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,080
orange glowing eyes.
Every single report prior to

613
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:45,800
that time always described how
difficult it was to see any

614
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,680
facial features because the long
shaggy hair covered its face.

615
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,360
But a strange phenomenon.
This is something that just

616
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,720
happens with human beings.
It's, it's in our nature, right?

617
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,720
You hear something bright
orange, glowing eyes, and now

618
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,640
all of a sudden 70% of the
reports that you're getting have

619
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,880
these orange eyes.
Did you find something like that

620
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,280
when you're looking at a topic
like the Wendigo?

621
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,400
Yeah, you want to like, I know
with the the sighting that was

622
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,480
near where I live, I interviewed
the people and sat down and

623
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,440
talked to them.
And the way that the woman

624
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,800
described what was going on,
like it it was, you know, the

625
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,960
typical, it was a sighting on
the side of the road.

626
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,600
It was winter time.
You know, it was like a a tall

627
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,640
moose like looking creature with
a cloak, which is a bit odd, the

628
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,360
cloak part.
But it had like the right kind

629
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,880
of antlers coming out of its
head.

630
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,920
But what it was interesting is
what was kind of going on at the

631
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:50,400
time, like her brother had been
dealing with addiction issues

632
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,280
and had just recently passed
away.

633
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,480
And that it's ties into sort of,
you know, the Wendigo is a

634
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,000
consumptive spirit, right?
So there's someone who's very

635
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,120
weakened, in a bad position
dealing with this.

636
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,160
So that kind of lent it some
credibility.

637
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,520
They'd also experience other
paranormal phenomenon in the

638
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,160
house that they were living in,
which was near where the

639
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,960
sighting had taken place.
So there was enough there, the

640
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,760
physical description, the
winter, the, the drug aspect and

641
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,600
death that to me it, it bore,
you know, some, some credibility

642
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,880
to follow up on.
And so that's kind of like the,

643
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,800
the 1st place to start with any
of this stuff is you have to

644
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,480
interview the people and it
helps to know something about

645
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,080
this, what, what they're talking
about.

646
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,120
Like you were saying with Momo,
right?

647
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,679
Like it's that sort of, I've all
I'd heard, ever heard about Momo

648
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:36,560
too, was like yourself.
The hair was so much that you

649
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,920
could never see a facial
feature.

650
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,120
So if someone's suddenly seeing
a facial feature, it feels like

651
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,560
the bit off to me, like maybe
that is what they saw, but it

652
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,639
doesn't fit in with what else
people are talking about.

653
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,719
It'd still be worth kind of
following up on, but you want to

654
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,159
think maybe they're
misinterpreting something else

655
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,760
or they just saw something that
freaked them out.

656
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,120
And they everybody talks about,
you know, evil things with

657
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,360
glowing eyes, and they're just
sort of fitting that into the

658
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,520
narrative, right?
Like it's such a tough field to

659
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,520
work in because there's
everything can get pretty

660
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,200
muddied pretty fast.
And you're right, the human,

661
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,600
humans as a society will sort of
take one idea and roll with it

662
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,920
and roll it into something else
that maybe wasn't what they saw

663
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:18,720
at all.
We're really good at

664
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,480
misinterpreting things.
Like, there's a lot of stump

665
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,960
squatches out there, right?
You know what I mean?

666
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,280
Like a.
Lot of bright red circles man.

667
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,600
And a lot of bright red circles
and all sorts of, and, and a lot

668
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,480
of people saying that dust is
orbs, you know, and, and all

669
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,400
this kind of stuff.
And you just got to be really,

670
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,760
really careful.
But it all the best first step

671
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,080
is to interview people
thoroughly, get a feel for them.

672
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,440
If you can interview them even
in their own home environment,

673
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,200
you'll get an idea just from
looking at their, their home

674
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,920
environment.
I remember getting called to an

675
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,120
investigation in a nearby
community that people were

676
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,520
saying they had this phenomenon
happen, like blood dripping from

677
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,360
the ceiling in their kitchen.
And they had a sample of it on

678
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,040
like, you know, a Kleenex.
So my colleague and I went out

679
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,360
there and I mean, they had every
single book on the paranormal

680
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,840
you could think of.
They had every episode of like

681
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,720
Ghost Hunters on DVD.
Like, these were people who were

682
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,200
so into this stuff that after
talking to them for a while, you

683
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,720
knew they just wanted something
to be going on in their house.

684
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:20,440
Yeah.
Right.

685
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,000
Yeah, I had, I had this
conversation with somebody just

686
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,800
the other day.
We talked about the spectrum of

687
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:34,160
believers and skeptics and how
as somebody who who performs

688
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:40,000
interviews, right, I've only
done a few, but I'm sure you've

689
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,680
had you, you have a much bigger
database than I do.

690
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:52,000
I already find it difficult to
talk to people who are too open

691
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,960
minded just as just as much if
not more sometimes than people

692
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,400
that are too close minded.
And when you have those

693
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:08,000
extremely open minded people to
talk to them, and if you're not

694
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,960
feeding them the information
that they want, the conversation

695
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,400
tends to tends to turn bad
pretty quick.

696
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,240
It does.
It really does.

697
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,960
So yeah, I couldn't.
That's one thing that I'm just

698
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,320
not looking forward to.
And and the whole investigative

699
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,080
like in person side of it.
How do you deal with things like

700
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,800
that Man it?
Just you, you kind of have to

701
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,920
just be honest with people,
right?

702
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,120
Like like this house that I was
telling you about, we

703
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,560
investigated there for hours and
nothing happened.

704
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,360
Nothing, absolutely nothing
happened.

705
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,640
So when they come, we, you know,
when we do an investigation like

706
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,640
that, we ask the homeowner to
leave so that we can do our

707
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,920
investigation, vote them around.
So it's a good way to tell if

708
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,800
something's there or not.
And then when they came back,

709
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,760
like, sorry, man, like nothing,
nothing happened.

710
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,880
And they were telling us about
all this extreme stuff going on

711
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,720
in their home.
So you would think, but if all

712
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,520
that's really going on in the
home, after several hours, like

713
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,240
6 to 8 hours of investigating,
you're going to get something.

714
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:09,200
Yeah.
And nothing.

715
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,360
Do you think that that has
something to do with like if the

716
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,080
people who live there are there,
maybe the whatever it is is more

717
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,000
comfortable, kind of like
expressing or showing itself in

718
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,480
a way than if like some
strangers are in the house?

719
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,280
Does that make sense?
That can be the thing.

720
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,920
So we try to do multiple
investigations like some with

721
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,000
the, the homeowners there, some
without, we'd like to do the

722
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,440
first one without them there.
And then if they're, and if we

723
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,600
have something happen when
they're not there, like we, we

724
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,920
kind of get like, OK, there's
probably better chance you know,

725
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,640
of something going on.
But if not, we like to come back

726
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,720
and do stuff with them present
and do a mix of that.

727
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,800
But these people that when we
said there was nothing there,

728
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,400
they were just kind of put out
and didn't want us to come back.

729
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,920
So that was a sign to us that,
well, OK, maybe there's really

730
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,680
nothing going on here where we
didn't appease what they were

731
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,080
thinking, right?
Like it was, it's tough.

732
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,040
I find honesty is always the
best policy with all, all this

733
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,520
kind of stuff.
Like you can't placate people.

734
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,480
It's the same if like there's
someone who's terrified of an

735
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,360
experience that's going on in
their home and you go there and

736
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,200
you get get it quantified.
You have to say something, but

737
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,200
then you know, then it's
something that's scaring people.

738
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,400
Then you've got to arm them with
things they can do to make them

739
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,640
feel more comfortable with this
situation or give them tips on

740
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,640
how to, you know, best deal with
it or try to get the spirit to

741
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,840
leave or, or etcetera.
I mean, it's very different if

742
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,800
someone's seeing a Sasquatch on
their property, you know, and if

743
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,400
you go out there and you know,
Jeremy, you've talked about your

744
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,920
experience before, like, you
know, if you're an investigator

745
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,440
investigating Sasquatch and
you've had your experience, you

746
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,560
want us to come out there and
look into it and we confirm that

747
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:44,760
what, what else are we going to
do?

748
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,080
Like, you know, like you know,
it's a total different beast.

749
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,040
But with hauntings, generally
the homeowner is the only one

750
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,560
that can make that spirit go
away.

751
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,600
Generally, you have to empower
the homeowner to deal with it.

752
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,000
So you're too nice?
I'd fuck with people.

753
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,760
Nothing would happen and they'd
come back and I'd go running out

754
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,480
the front door.
I'll never go back here.

755
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,680
Fuck this.
Like Buddy, he when he was part

756
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,160
of Vancouver Paranormal Society,
he had someone who is

757
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,800
investigating a house where the
woman was convinced there's

758
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,080
something demonic in there.
And the investigator went in

759
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,720
this investigation that said you
have like 14 demons in your

760
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:20,840
house and just left and then the
woman killed herself.

761
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:22,080
She was.
So.

762
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,000
Terrified that there was.
She was so terrified that this

763
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,080
person that said there was like
all these demons in her house,

764
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,400
she cut down.
Crazy.

765
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,000
Wow, you have a responsibility
as to people, right?

766
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Like like it's.
Yeah, maybe.

767
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,560
There was.
I'm terrified of this.

768
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,440
They're going to take it.
They're going to really react.

769
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,840
And maybe there was, maybe
that's something that, you know,

770
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,320
pushed her over the edge too,
Not just the fear of it, but you

771
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,360
know, if there's fucking demons
living in your house, like.

772
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,040
Yeah, I mean, I personally move,
but I know that's not always so

773
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,120
easy for people.
But it just she was that freaked

774
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,680
out that that's just her her
response to it, right.

775
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,720
It's.
Well, now I feel like an

776
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:58,880
asshole, no?
Don't.

777
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,480
You are an.
Everyone's natural reaction is

778
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,960
to want to mess with it.
Trust me, I've had that myself.

779
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,760
Like, you know what I mean?
But the longer you do this, you

780
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,440
just realize, like there's such
a, as an investigator, you have

781
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,960
such a duty to the people that
you're, you're who are you

782
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,680
basically consider your clients,
You know, even though we don't

783
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,920
take money for what we do, like
you, you have a duty to them to

784
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,960
be respectful and honest and act
with integrity.

785
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,480
And there's so many people out
there who call themselves

786
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,760
investigators or demonologists
who just don't, they're just

787
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,280
looking to make a buck or, or
have an adventure or a thrill.

788
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,000
And they're people, they're
doing more harm than good.

789
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,960
And I mean, there's so many
people on TikTok that are doing

790
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,640
that.
Like it's just, it's shameful.

791
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,200
Really.
It really is.

792
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,000
It really is.
I, I don't, I don't know how you

793
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,400
do the, the paranormal man.
I, I, I love, I love that you

794
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,000
had this wide range of interests
and that you cover a wide range

795
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:53,680
of things.
Right.

796
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,160
So, so far you've written books
on the paranormal, near death

797
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:04,080
experiences, aquatic cryptids,
and now native folklore creature

798
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,160
spirits.
Scary monster thing.

799
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,360
I mean, I mean, you're
everywhere, man, That's awesome.

800
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,040
But I just, I give you props
for, for diving into the world

801
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,920
of of like spirits and stuff,
man, I, I just can't.

802
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,000
I like, I was scared shitless
from what I saw when I was 9.

803
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,880
I couldn't imagine.
I could not imagine being in a

804
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,360
situation where you know
something's there, you can't see

805
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,800
it.
I, I'd lose my mind.

806
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,600
I would fucking lose my mind.
And the person who came into my

807
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,400
house and ran out the front door
be like, Yep, all right, cool.

808
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,760
I'm not ever stepping foot in
that house again.

809
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:50,040
Fuck that.
It's, it's, that's how I started

810
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,240
though, right?
Like, you know, I was always

811
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:53,320
fascinated by all this stuff,
but the first thing I kind of

812
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,480
ever really investigated was
sort of ghosts and spirits.

813
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,880
That was just sort of the
easiest route to take, I guess,

814
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,200
at the time.
And then working with, you know,

815
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,400
a paranormal group, that's what
most paranormal groups deal

816
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,320
with.
And it was always had a

817
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,080
fascination.
And that's something now that

818
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,920
we're focusing on as Canadian
Paranormal society is because we

819
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,560
are branching into these other
areas, is learning how to

820
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,640
properly investigate all this
other phenomenon 'cause you

821
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,120
can't look for Bigfoot or UFOs
the same way you kind of

822
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,880
investigate ghosts.
Like it just doesn't work,

823
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,080
right.
So you've recovered trying to

824
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,880
learn from people who've done
these things for a long time,

825
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,160
the right way to investigate all
these different phenomena.

826
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaking of, we just had a a
really big name in in the field

827
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,080
of Bigfoot pass away.
Yes, we do now.

828
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:42,760
Yeah, actually one of actually
the only professor in a well

829
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,800
known university that I know
that that covers anthropology

830
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:56,400
mixed with Bigfoot and it's it's
actually sad.

831
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,840
It's really sad.
His name was Doctor Jeff

832
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,520
Meldrum, so if if anybody gets a
chance to look into some of his

833
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,320
work, I'm sure that if you've
ever watched a Bigfoot show or a

834
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,920
documentary, you've seen Jeff
Meldrum.

835
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,360
It kind of got covered up
because of the Charlie Kirk

836
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,640
assassination, so it didn't
really get out there.

837
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,600
But I mean, I think it happened
just prior to it, like within

838
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,280
the same day or the day before.
It was really quick.

839
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:33,720
It was really quick.
Yeah.

840
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,560
They're almost simultaneous.
You know, he's someone obviously

841
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,760
super familiar with his work
through, especially, like you

842
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,760
say, through the TV shows and
documentaries.

843
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,360
And I was like, that's a big
loss.

844
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,040
And that's the sad thing is a
lot of these guys who are the

845
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,480
legends in the field are getting
up there in age, right?

846
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,440
And they approach things so
differently than than a lot of

847
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,280
people do now.
Like you have to respect their

848
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,520
approach to how they
investigated this phenomena.

849
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,360
Yeah, what were we just talking
about?

850
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,280
The physicist or the
mathematician?

851
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,640
Plank God, what was his first
name?

852
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:14,040
I can't remember his first name,
but he also had a concept, a

853
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:20,720
famous concept.
And I'm going to melt my mind

854
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,360
trying to think of it, so I'm
not going to, again, waste too

855
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,440
much of your time.
But basically the gist of this

856
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:32,840
concept was science only moves
forward one funeral at a time.

857
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:43,800
And I feel like that's actually
the reverse for a field like

858
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:48,240
cryptozoology.
I think that as time goes on and

859
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:51,400
as we have more of these
funerals, right?

860
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:59,560
John Green, Doctor Jeff Meldrum,
There's a ton of them, right?

861
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,760
Yeah, they're all.
I mean, I mean, Lauren Coleman's

862
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:10,360
up there now too.
Look at what we're replacing

863
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,960
them with.
And I'm not, I'm not trying to

864
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,040
point fingers at anybody, start
fights with anybody, but we have

865
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,200
a lot of very, very open minded
people.

866
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:25,200
And they're crossing like kind
of how you alluded to, they're

867
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,440
crossing the topics of
cryptozoology with paranormal or

868
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,920
spirituality.
And I believe that there's room

869
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,440
for both studies in
cryptozoology and especially

870
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,840
when it comes to Bigfoot.
Like, I mean, one of the one of

871
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,960
my favorite interviews I've ever
done was with Carter Buschardt,

872
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,360
right?
Oh yeah, Carter.

873
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:50,920
He talks about.
Interesting.

874
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,120
Dude.
Yeah, and he he dives really

875
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:58,360
deep into the mind speak
Bigfoot, but he does it from an

876
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,960
educated point of view and it's
really nice.

877
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,120
But a lot of the people that are
starting to fill these shoes

878
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,640
are, I mean, I'm trying to be
nice about this.

879
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:18,400
I feel like they're too open and
they're leaning very heavily on

880
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,080
AII.
Don't know if you've come across

881
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:30,600
this a lot in your recent times
but it seems like every time I

882
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:36,680
go on to anything for research I
have to filter out more AI

883
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:42,720
bullshit then then I ever
thought I would have to and it's

884
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:48,680
starting to bleed into books and
I I just.

885
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,280
I don't know, man.
I don't know.

886
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,160
I, I feel like, I feel like it's
the opposite for this particular

887
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,320
field because we're, we're
losing all of those, those guys

888
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,960
who put in some real tough
blood, sweat and tears and time.

889
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,720
And we're, we're replacing them
with AI and we're replacing them

890
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,640
with what's the easiest way to
make a buck.

891
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,560
And it saddens me, it really
does.

892
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,520
Me, me too.
Because I think if this is

893
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,480
something you're super serious
about, you're going to want to

894
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,240
put the time in.
Yeah.

895
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:22,920
To research it.
The old like to, to actually

896
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,960
like, you know, you know, I'm a
big reader, so I have no trouble

897
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,960
picking up old books and reading
them and sifting through

898
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,360
documents and then going out to
the places where people are

899
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,840
having these experiences and
interviewing those who are

900
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,200
having these experiences and
spending time physically

901
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,680
spending time there yourself to
see what you can find, if

902
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,840
anything.
And I think that's the only way

903
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,560
you can be a serious
investigator.

904
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,880
If you're just sitting there
creating AI generated stuff or

905
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,560
just using it to do your
research and you're throwing

906
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,160
crap up on TikTok or YouTube and
that's all you're doing, there's

907
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,840
a problem.
And you're not serious about

908
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,200
this.
And I've questioned the reason

909
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,600
why you're doing it to begin
with.

910
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,080
Yeah.
You know, and the fact Chad

911
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,960
Lewis told the story where he
was at a Paracon, you know,

912
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,920
there's people there who are
serious, serious investigators,

913
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,040
paranormal investigators.
And then there's people there

914
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,040
who are TV stars.
And all the people coming in

915
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,320
were talking to the TV stars and
very few were going up and

916
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,760
talking to the actual legitimate
researchers and investigators.

917
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,200
And that to me is sad.
The people who are on TV, some

918
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,000
of them have started off as
really good investigators.

919
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,800
But you know, a lot of them also
are just hired on to be TV

920
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,240
personalities because they've
had a little bit of experience,

921
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:26,840
you know what I mean?
They have the right look for it.

922
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,000
Again, I'm not trying to trash
anybody because there's some

923
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,160
people that are doing really
great work, but the people who

924
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,520
are doing the really hard work
aren't getting recognized in the

925
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,640
same way they would have been
like in the era of John Green

926
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,000
and Renee Dend and and Thomas
Steinberg and all them, you know

927
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,400
what I mean?
Like it's such a do you have to

928
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,840
be have a huge social media
following and be on TV now?

929
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,880
Yeah, I mean, I I was talking to
AII call him a kid, you know, he

930
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:58,360
was in his early 20s and it just
kind of BS and back and forward

931
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:03,000
possibly working out, you know,
a cross podcasting deal where,

932
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,280
you know, I go on his he comes
on mine kind of thing.

933
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:11,680
And, you know, he claimed to be
this huge Cryptid nerve man.

934
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,720
He didn't even know who Bernard
Weilman was.

935
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:17,960
And I'm like, I'm like, I think
we're just going to stop this

936
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,440
conversation, man.
I was like, if, you know, I

937
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,320
didn't know who Bernard Weilman
was, didn't know who John Green

938
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,720
was.
And I'm like, I think we're

939
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,360
good, man.
I think I, I, I don't even think

940
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,760
I want to put you on my show.
So.

941
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:41,120
And you know, I, I, I don't, I
don't mean to sound cocky or

942
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,880
stuck up when I, when I say
those names, but these are like

943
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,400
true pioneers of the field.
You know, I'm happy that you're

944
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,480
coming up though.
And I'll I'll say that behind

945
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,640
your back too, by the way.
Oh well, you're behind my back.

946
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:57,680
Oh, that's nice.
Absolutely.

947
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:02,120
No, I, I, I actually appreciate
your work man.

948
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,400
I really do.
Thank.

949
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,120
You so much.
I, I look at the path that

950
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,880
you're, you're taking as kind of
like a, a blueprint for

951
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,400
something similar to that I want
to do and letting you do all the

952
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:13,840
hard work.
And I'll just come up behind you

953
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,760
so that.
Was good and it it you know, but

954
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,640
it's you're putting in the time
and the effort and all that too,

955
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,680
Jeremy and that's important.
That's it's it's I think I think

956
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,560
too many people that I think
it's part of a societal thing.

957
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,680
Not enough people want to put in
the hard work to get to the end

958
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,680
game.
But the only way you're going to

959
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,640
really get to the end game is by
putting in the hard work.

960
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,440
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully.
I, I keep catching crap about

961
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,240
not putting out my book and I, I
can't explain it, but, you know,

962
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,840
I, I'm so picky, especially
about the first book.

963
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,400
I don't know.
What was your first book, Jason?

964
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,240
The first book would have been I
Want to Believe one Man's

965
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:54,360
journey into the Paranormal.
That's the one I wrote with Pete

966
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:55,520
Ran.
You did it.

967
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,720
You did do that with Pete.
How long did it take you to get

968
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:02,000
the confidence to put that out,
man?

969
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:08,440
Well, it was it happened sort of
in reverse because I know Pete

970
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,600
and I had just launched We want
to Believe, and we were on

971
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,920
Shannon Legros's Into the Fray
podcast, Pete and I, She was

972
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,160
interviewing us about the show
and Pete was sort of telling his

973
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,640
story, some of his stories.
And she sort of said to Pete,

974
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,440
like on air, Oh man, you
someone, you should write a

975
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,560
book, Pete and you know, get,
you know, have a book come out

976
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,160
because you have so many
fascinating stories.

977
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,640
And I remember afterwards I
texted her and I said, are you

978
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,280
serious about about Pete's book?
And I, And she's like, oh, yeah,

979
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,800
I totally would.
And I said, OK, so because I

980
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,280
could totally write Pete's story
because I have 10 years as a

981
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,800
newspaper writer, it was to
write a book would have wasn't

982
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,280
that intimidating.
So I convinced Pete it was a

983
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,680
good idea.
And we basically sat down in

984
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:52,360
June of 2020 and the book came
out that Christmas.

985
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,640
That's crazy.
Yeah, but there's a pandemic.

986
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,920
We couldn't do anything either,
right?

987
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,040
Like we could.
Everything was shut down.

988
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,640
So we had all the time in the
world to to write a book.

989
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,040
Yeah.
And so that's kind of how the

990
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,920
first book came up.
But I I was confident enough

991
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,280
going in.
But that's because I wrote

992
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,520
newspaper stories for 10 years,
like crime, crime journalist for

993
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,320
10 years, like it was thought of
writing that book wasn't scary

994
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,080
at all.
And Pete told the story really

995
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,760
well.
You should just put it out,

996
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,000
Jeremy.
Honestly, man, I mean, I don't

997
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,280
write books, but I write music.
And I have that same problem

998
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,720
where I'll I'll be working on a
song or something and I'll hold

999
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:26,520
on to it for what I feel like is
forever.

1000
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,360
And then it a day comes where I
wake up and I'm like, fuck it.

1001
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,320
And I just put it up on the
Internet and all I get is like,

1002
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,880
praise for the songs, you know,
like people are like, oh, that's

1003
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,640
sick.
That's awesome.

1004
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,200
I'm glad you put this out.
So it's one of those things, I

1005
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,520
think when you're especially in
like, the creative space because

1006
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,560
you can totally block yourself.
Like you just have to fucking

1007
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:48,680
find the day, be happy enough
with it, and just fire it off.

1008
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,520
I think you're right, nothing
creative is ever really

1009
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,000
finished, it's eventually just
abandoned.

1010
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,280
Yeah.
Like it's good enough, let's do

1011
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:56,880
it.
Then.

1012
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,040
If you've got a deadline where
you have to have it by a certain

1013
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,920
time because there's a publisher
breathing down your neck, well,

1014
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,040
then you just, you hit that
deadline day and it's you make

1015
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,120
sure it's good enough and off
you go and.

1016
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,640
Then you can always do a follow
up, you know, but I.

1017
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,000
Don't want to do a follow up,
man.

1018
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,560
That's, that's, that's part of
the whole thing.

1019
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,720
All right, We're, we're getting
into me.

1020
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:16,480
I don't want let's, let's stay
on Jason.

1021
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,080
Jason, we got a question from
Spectrum assassin here, man, he

1022
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,960
said.
I wonder what he thinks of ultra

1023
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:29,040
terrestrials like Els or gnomes.
Oh, well, that's, I think I love

1024
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,000
John Keel's ultra terrestrial
concept.

1025
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,160
I'm a big believer in it because
we have like there's the little

1026
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,080
people which have been like, you
know, people who call them

1027
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,400
fairies and, and things like
that and indigenous tribes,

1028
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,640
there's tricksters, all that
stuff.

1029
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,200
So I, I have no doubt, I think
the elves and gnomes are just

1030
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,560
different names for a different
phenomenon all over the world.

1031
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,360
And I'm fully convinced that all
that is it's truly out there.

1032
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,080
I, I, I think Keel was really on
to something with his whole

1033
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:00,320
ultra terrestrial concept.
If you're if spectrum, if you're

1034
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,560
looking for a good book on the
whole ultra terrestrial thing

1035
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:09,600
right here, Strange creatures
from get that out of the from.

1036
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,120
Time and space.
Time and Space from John Keel It

1037
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:14,560
is still.
They're covered too, by the way.

1038
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,560
Oh yeah, dude, it's, it's
absolutely awesome.

1039
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,600
And he doesn't dive into it as
much.

1040
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,000
I mean, he talks about it in
pretty much every book he does.

1041
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,440
Trojan Horse talked about it.
Mothman.

1042
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,400
Prophecies.
Absolutely.

1043
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,880
The 8th tower.
Is that what it is?

1044
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,240
The 8th I think.
That's what it's called.

1045
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,440
But The complete guide to
mysterious Beings is another one

1046
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,760
that he does.
This is more of just like your,

1047
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,800
your cryptozoological book state
by state here in the United

1048
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,280
States that John Keel did.
But he does refer to the ultra

1049
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:56,040
terrestrial hypothesis that he
presented most famously in

1050
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:57,560
strained creatures from time and
space.

1051
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,680
So I highly, highly recommend
that if you're, if you're

1052
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,320
looking into like the whole
ultra terrestrial concept, got

1053
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,080
to grab some John Keel, man it
is.

1054
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,280
He's the man.
It's pivotal.

1055
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,680
He started it all.
Yeah, and I mean, there's all

1056
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,840
kinds of stuff that build off of
it too, like even the even the

1057
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,880
the more present phenomenon of
like Skinwalker Ranch, because

1058
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,560
they're talking about like the
potentially being a cosmic

1059
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,920
trickster.
That all spans off of John

1060
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,360
Keel's original theory from the
Ultra Terrestrial.

1061
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,400
So I highly, highly recommend
John Keel stuff.

1062
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,800
And if you ever need a list of
good books to grab from him,

1063
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,360
just let me know and I'll I'll
get him out to you.

1064
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:55,000
I Jason, I'm kicking myself
right now because I was supposed

1065
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,680
to order and I haven't in over a
year.

1066
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:02,840
I was I, I I've been meaning the
order Jadu, the the first book

1067
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:07,200
he did before he went and looked
for the the Yeti and the Paul.

1068
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,320
So I got to I got to grab that.
I might as well just snag that

1069
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,880
now.
Just order it out.

1070
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,720
Just you can pause and go on
your phone and order it off

1071
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,760
Amazon right now.
Oh no, I I don't pause anything,

1072
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,600
man.
I just do it.

1073
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,520
I order more books when I'm
talking to people than I like

1074
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,440
during recordings than I do when
I'm not.

1075
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,960
It's crazy.
Because your brain is working,

1076
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:31,480
right?
It's working on all this stuff

1077
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,760
and turning it out.
That's my brain.

1078
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,320
Works the same way.
Yeah.

1079
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,560
So yeah, I'll grab.
I'm gonna grab it right now.

1080
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,880
Would like clockwork elves like
Terence Mckenna's theories about

1081
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,600
like the entities you see in
altered states of mind or

1082
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,400
consciousness?
Would those be considered like

1083
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,080
ultra terrestrials as well?
Yes, it says to a.

1084
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,760
Degree.
So so John Keel had this really

1085
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,880
fascinating concept that he
called his window theory, I

1086
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,400
believe it was called.
I may be off slightly on the

1087
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:11,160
exact terminology, but basically
his his basis of the belief

1088
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,600
behind the ultra terrestrial was
that there's these parallel

1089
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:20,160
universes that sit close to each
other and they're basically

1090
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,360
giant bubbles.
And when they come in contact

1091
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,280
with each other, they they
create a crossover of the the

1092
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:34,200
two parallel universes.
And that cryptids are creatures

1093
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,800
technically from this parallel
world that come in through these

1094
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,480
windows, these cross sections
between the parallel dimensions

1095
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:47,920
or parallel worlds, if you will.
So he even went as far as to

1096
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:54,320
explain that local cryptids like
ones that you only find locked

1097
00:58:54,320 --> 00:59:00,280
in by local lore, let's say like
the Snally Gaster of Frederick,

1098
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,800
MD, right?
That's a perfect one.

1099
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:07,200
Or the Van Meter visitor of of
Van Meter, IA, the Latin, the

1100
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,440
Puerto Rican Chupacabra is is
another one where the Puerto

1101
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:16,480
Rican chupacabra is uniquely A
reptilian alien like build.

1102
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,640
But then in the southern United
States, we have a A4 legged

1103
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,920
quadrupedal canine right with
mange.

1104
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,640
That's how you know they both do
the same thing.

1105
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,400
They're technically both blood
suckers from livestock, but

1106
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,960
they're visually and and
anatomically different.

1107
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,920
He used that as an as an example
of these parallel worlds, right,

1108
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:51,800
That we both have a creature
that fills the same role, but as

1109
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,520
they cross over, there's a
pocket in Puerto Rico or a

1110
00:59:54,520 --> 01:00:00,120
window in Puerto Rico that lets
them cross over or be seen at

1111
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:05,520
times.
That's more, more or less along

1112
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,640
the lines of his his ultra
terrestrial.

1113
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,240
And it's not exactly it because
the Ultra Terrestrial sits above

1114
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:18,360
those pockets and where I think
like you're talking about like

1115
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,640
machine owls and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.

1116
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,840
Entities that you see on
psychedelics and things you

1117
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,960
know.
Potentially, potentially, I

1118
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,400
would love to see somebody do
like a, a, a really deep

1119
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:39,320
research piece on John Keel's
ultra terrestrials and how that

1120
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:44,680
might affect or, or how that
relates to psychedelic beings.

1121
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:46,600
That would be really
interesting.

1122
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,400
That would be really interesting
because even like we've talked

1123
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,120
about this before, Jeff, a lot
of the like the the beings that

1124
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,440
you see in the DMT realm.
Not that I've ever done it, but

1125
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,400
I've I've read Terence McKenna
and I've read plenty of other

1126
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,880
pieces too.
They have mantids, they have

1127
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,640
reptilians, they have creatures
that look just like grey aliens

1128
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:17,280
and John Keel even used, you
know, talked about greys and

1129
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:27,760
other Nordic type humanoid alien
beings as examples of these

1130
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,000
ultra terrestrials.
And where the and I'm, I'm

1131
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,200
actually jumping out of John
Keel a little bit and talking

1132
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:39,360
about somebody else's research
now, because then we get into

1133
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,840
the biological drones that the
greys could potentially be for a

1134
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:48,960
species such as the Nordics that
have also been paralleled to

1135
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:54,960
things in the psychedelic realm.
So I don't know, maybe there

1136
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,200
there could be a connection
there.

1137
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,640
There could be, but I don't
think anybody's ever drawn it

1138
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,360
before and it'd be interesting
to look into.

1139
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:14,440
Really, really interesting.
Anyways, back to Jason.

1140
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,760
Sorry man.
That's all right.

1141
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:19,960
That's it.
That's super fascinating.

1142
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,640
It's super fascinating stuff.
No, we, we, we love to go down

1143
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:28,200
the side tangents here.
Let's see, man.

1144
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,360
Well, you can't tell us what
you're getting into.

1145
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,560
Not yet.
Not yet soon.

1146
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,720
You got any projects that you
can't tell us about?

1147
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,760
What are you working on man,
other than the Super secret

1148
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,680
stuff?
Well, there's OK, so there's

1149
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,560
like, well obviously the book is
out Tracking the Wendigo comes

1150
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:48,640
out October 26th and then I am
working on a Sasquatch

1151
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,400
documentary.
It will be out by the end of the

1152
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:52,720
year.
And we're just sort of in the

1153
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:54,840
it's just gone for scoring
today.

1154
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,640
The cut was ready enough that my
buddy Sean, who scored

1155
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,800
everything I've done like We
Want to Believe right through

1156
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,400
Tracking the Wendigo and stuff
is working on the music for

1157
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,080
starting probably tomorrow and
it'll be out in time.

1158
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,120
I don't have the exact release
date yet, but it's gonna be like

1159
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,360
mid-december.
That's cool, man.

1160
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,080
Yeah, that's Sasquatch in
British Columbia.

1161
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,120
So we follow a case on that.
And then we go down to Harrison

1162
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,920
Hot Springs and talk to like
Thomas Steinberg, Jerry

1163
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:22,400
Matthews, Bill Reed, Brad Trent,
all like veteran people who work

1164
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,480
with John Green and Renee
Dehindon and all that and cover

1165
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,520
some galore down there and then
come back up and conclude our

1166
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,520
investigation and had some
interesting stuff happen.

1167
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,400
That's so cool man.
That's as deep as I can go

1168
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,440
talking about it.
Good enough, man.

1169
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,240
I'll take it.
Yeah, I'll take it.

1170
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,280
Then a bunch of stuff coming out
in 2026 that I'm working on,

1171
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,080
which is I'm really excited
about and can start and when I

1172
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,800
can start chatting about it.
But it's something I've wanted

1173
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,760
to to work on for a while, and
I'm excited that I get the

1174
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,160
chance to.
Skeeter.

1175
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,120
Skeeter asks.
Where can we see it?

1176
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:01,720
Well, the the Sasquatch, yeah.
Or anything.

1177
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,560
Anything.
Right now, like keep keep tabs

1178
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,160
on sort of a small town monsters
YouTube channel, that's where

1179
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,120
the stuff will be coming out.
There you go.

1180
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,880
Is the the Bigfoot project
coming out through small town

1181
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,040
monsters as well?
You will as well.

1182
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,520
Yeah, yeah, that's cool, man.
I think this is the first time

1183
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,120
I've actually talked about it,
so you're lucky.

1184
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:19,280
There you go.
Congratulations.

1185
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,240
In terms other than teasing it
online, that actually mentioned

1186
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,840
that it's coming out at the end
of the year on small town

1187
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,600
monsters, so.
Sweet man, hopefully you don't.

1188
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,080
You're not going to get in
trouble for that, are you?

1189
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,360
No, I don't.
I don't think so.

1190
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,280
I think it's fine exactly when
or what it's called or anything

1191
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,040
like that.
So.

1192
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:41,040
Cool man.
And yeah, Kenzar, she says that

1193
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,880
Harrison is huge on the big
feats and it's like, yes, yes,

1194
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,400
it is.
And we actually go to the museum

1195
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,760
in the in the documentary and,
and everything like that.

1196
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,360
It was pretty wild.
That became kind of our little

1197
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,840
jumping off point for what we
did down there.

1198
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,800
But Harrison Hot Springs, if
anyone here is comes up to

1199
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,960
Canada and you're into Bigfoot,
you have to go to Harrison Hot

1200
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,520
Springs.
Like you have to don't call it

1201
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,400
Bigfoot, call it Sasquatch.
Bigfoot's the American name.

1202
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,600
Sasquatch is the Canadian name.
The Sasquatch name came out by

1203
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,760
quite a few decades before the
Bigfoot name was coined.

1204
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,200
There you go.
There it is, There it is.

1205
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,400
Jeffrey.
Got anything for him bud?

1206
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,360
No man, good to see you.
Sorry I wasn't able to keep up

1207
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,440
with all this.
It's not my realm, but.

1208
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,720
You know, it's all good.
Glad I was here for it.

1209
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:25,320
So we'll definitely have to see
you again.

1210
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:27,720
Yeah.
We'll have to link up before

1211
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:28,960
another year goes by, that's for
sure.

1212
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:30,840
Yeah, yeah.
No, that'd be awesome.

1213
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:32,560
Yeah, that'd be totally for
that.

1214
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,160
When you could talk about more
stuff, man.

1215
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,480
Maybe that's I'll.
I'll let you guys know right

1216
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,320
away.
Yeah, we'll talk about the DMT

1217
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:41,280
elves.
That's what we'll talk about

1218
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:42,840
next time.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.

1219
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,040
Do you even do some DMT just in
time?

1220
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,480
Boss man parties man.
I like it.

1221
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,040
Before I had kids and got
married, Yeah, like, you know,

1222
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,840
and got old, too old to like,
never recover.

1223
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,240
One of one of these days, man,
I've I've never, I've never

1224
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:09,160
tried DMT, but that is that's
something that I would I, I, I

1225
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,880
delve into it, man.
Just to have that experience

1226
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,160
like, but to see the things that
people are talking about because

1227
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,200
is that the key to just altering
your consciousness enough to

1228
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,760
seeing the things that are there
all the time?

1229
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,360
That's that's where I get
fascinated just for that whole

1230
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,640
like with the keel as ultra
terrestrials, just the whole

1231
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,520
concept that this stuff is
always around us.

1232
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,880
You just have to change your
like vibrational frequency to

1233
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,960
see it all.
Like I think that to me is just

1234
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,560
your mental state just slightly
and you just open that door.

1235
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,520
I think that's just fascinating
concept to me.

1236
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,600
Yeah, me and Jeremy have talked
about this before too, you know,

1237
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,880
because it's from from my
perspective, you know, people

1238
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,960
who have these types of
sightings, they're usually it's

1239
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,800
like high anxiety or fear or
like these, you know, these

1240
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,760
altered states when they have
these interactions.

1241
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,240
So to me it's it's not the same,
but it's the same, right?

1242
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,960
Yeah, no, I agree.
I agree.

1243
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,240
And people that had, yeah.
And the people that had these,

1244
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,440
they're just that little bit
more open minded and that's all

1245
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:05,480
anything like DMT or any
hallucinogen does.

1246
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,320
It just opens your mind more.
Oh, yeah, right.

1247
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,600
Yeah.
So it, there's so many, like we

1248
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:14,120
could spend another hour just
talking about some of the, the

1249
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,400
cool shit that that comes with
this.

1250
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,000
Like, I mean, I've, I've heard
some stuff that just absolutely

1251
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,000
blows my mind, especially when
you get into like the the

1252
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,760
medical science of it and
everything.

1253
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:29,120
It's just, it's, it's on another
level, man, It really is.

1254
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,600
It is.
And I think it's it's just,

1255
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,080
yeah, we just, it's just tapping
into that.

1256
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:40,040
All right, Jason, that's all I
got for you, but.

1257
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,480
That's all right.
That was that was a lot of fun

1258
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,280
as always, man.
Good always.

1259
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:46,840
Good.
Try not to keep you too late.

1260
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,080
I don't.
Well, Jeff has to go.

1261
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:50,440
Night.
Night.

1262
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:51,800
It's my.
Bedtime.

1263
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:57,240
Always.
He's got fresh baked cookies

1264
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,640
sitting on his counter.
You gotta go eat them.

1265
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,240
That I do.
His his lady spoils the shit out

1266
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,400
of him.
That she does good for you.

1267
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,400
She brings him fresh baked
treats and glasses of milk while

1268
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,600
he's recording.
Yeah, generally going on a rant

1269
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,760
and I'll just like play the
fresh baked.

1270
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:19,800
Food, it's awesome.
It's like.

1271
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:26,520
Man, dude, seriously?
I'm jealous now.

1272
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:32,279
It's crazy, but if you could
just, if you could just hang

1273
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:34,520
tight for a few minutes after we
close out.

1274
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,319
That way I can make sure I got
everything.

1275
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:38,920
And then I just want to, I want
to throw something at you

1276
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:46,120
because I just, I just do.
But before we go, do you have

1277
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,399
anything else that you'd like to
put out?

1278
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,720
Give people your socials where
they can contact you, all that

1279
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:53,520
good stuff.
Yeah, yeah, if people want, like

1280
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,479
just come find me on Instagram
at Jason Hewlett Official.

1281
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,880
I'm on Facebook as well.
There's a few Jason Hewlett's

1282
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:00,439
out there.
I'm the guy holding the rifle.

1283
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,680
And if you want to reach out
directly, you can just e-mail me

1284
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:09,880
at jhewlett72@gmail.com.
So j.hewlett72@gmail.com.

1285
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:13,080
Perfect, perfect.
All right.

1286
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,800
And I'll tag you when when, when
the episode comes out, which

1287
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,160
will be tomorrow, because I'm
going to.

1288
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:19,359
That's awesome.
Thank you so much.

1289
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:20,800
I'll watch Sunday Night
Football.

1290
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,399
All right.
Well, that has been another

1291
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:25,920
episode of the Infinite Rabbit
Hole.

1292
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,120
We do have another guest on the
schedule next weekend.

1293
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:37,800
It is not the guy that blew us
off 4 times in a row, but but

1294
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:41,720
we'll, we'll, we'll see.
And if if so, we'll be diving

1295
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,560
into 911 and some of the
misconceptions behind that.

1296
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,040
All right, well, until next time
travelers, this has been another

1297
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,120
episode of the Infinite Rabbit
Hole podcast with our guest

1298
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,160
Jason Hewlett, old boss man from
the Paranormal Network.

1299
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,040
Until next time, travelers,
we'll see you in the next fork

1300
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:01,480
in the path of the Infinite
Rabbit hole.

1301
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,280
Bye everybody.
Adios.

1302
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:06,320
Bye.
There it is.

1303
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:14,560
Imagine.
Hey everybody, thanks for

1304
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,720
checking out the Infinite Rabbit
Hole podcast.

1305
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,080
If you're looking for more of
our stuff, head on over to

1306
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,320
infiniterabbithole.com where you
can find links to all the

1307
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,760
podcast players that we are
available on and even our video

1308
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,800
platforms such as TikTok and
YouTube.

1309
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,680
While you're there, make sure to
check out all the links for our

1310
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,960
socials and hit that follow so
you know when all the new stuff

1311
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,080
from our podcast comes out.
And until next time, travelers,

1312
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,760
we'll see you right here in the
next fork in the path of the

1313
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:42,640
Infinite Rabbit hole.
Bye.