Cryptid Case Files: The Mountain Gorilla

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Merriamwebster Dictionary
Cryptozoology.

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Noun the study of and search for
animals and especially legendary

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animals such as Sasquatch.
Usually in order to evaluate the

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possibility of their existence.
If in a rabbit hole presents the

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mountain gorilla.
Hey welcome back to infinite

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rabbit hole everybody.
I know that you were you were so

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hoping you're like, man, we
finally got rid of Jake.

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He finally quit and he's gone
and all we can we we only have

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to hear Jeremy now.
Well guess what.

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I'm back to ruin your day.
Maybe not longterm, maybe

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longterm, I don't know.
But for right now we're

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starting.
I'm starting a new series that

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I'm calling the Cryptozoology
Case Files, and we'll get more

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into that here in just a second.
But today I am joined with my

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cohost, Jeremy.
Jeremy, how are you doing this?

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Fine day.
It's so it's it's fun being on

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this side.
I like, yeah, yes.

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Well, that's good.
That's it.

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All right, cool.
That's pretty much.

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I mean, everything's going good,
man.

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I'm working on a very large
presentation.

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For this, well, pretty pretty
BIG4 episodes so far.

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Going to start episode 150 with
a Banger and then break it up in

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the smaller sections for the
next four are three episodes

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15151, one 52153.
So far all the same subject

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broken up in the smaller bits.
That's that.

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Each cover a subtopic within
that topic, so I'm pretty

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excited about it.
Just an FYI to anybody listening

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might be infinite rabbit hole
lists for a few weeks.

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This this is a pretty big
subject and it's been working on

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it for over a month already and
I want to say I'm about halfway

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done.
So I mean, if there's anyone to

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do that between the two of us,
it's definitely you since I

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barely know how to read.
Had to watch an awful lot of

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videos for this.
No, no.

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I'm just messing okay.
So basically, here's the gist,

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right?
I had this thought for a while,

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even before I I decide to walk
away from the show for the

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second time.
Which, don't worry, they'll

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probably be a third.
But I I wanted to do so.

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We talked about cryptophysiology
quite often.

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You know, whether we're getting
into the Loveland Frog Man or

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Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster,
whatever it is, right?

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But I wanted to discuss a small
series, or maybe a large series

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on what we'll see as episodes
continue, but of real

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cryptozoology discoveries,
right, where something either

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went extinct and was
rediscovered, or it was

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theorized to exist and then
actually found by science to

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exist.
And so the first one I want to

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start with was the mountain
gorilla, and we'll get into it a

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little bit.
This might not be a tremendously

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long episode trying to really
just focus on the stories and

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then discovery and all that
stuff of the mountain gorilla

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and not really get this into
like a mountain gorilla

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documentary type thing because
it was certainly going to start

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going in that direction and I
had to cut it off pretty short.

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But yeah, just kind of given
people an idea of when we talk

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about all this cryptozoology
type stuff, it's not just

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legendary monsters we're
referring to.

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Of course, the ones that we
focus on are undiscovered

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monsters, right?
Or undiscovered creatures.

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But the realm of cryptozoology
has a lot to it, and we'll see

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as the episodes progress.
You're going to hear of a lot of

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animals that you know you are
pretty familiar with and you're

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going to be like, well, that was
considered a crypted no way,

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right.
And so we're just going to get

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into that sort of stuff.
Man, I dig this.

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It's like crypted success
stories.

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Yeah, pretty much.
That's pretty cool, man.

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I dig this.
I dig this.

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I like this.
This is this is important

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because a lot of people who
think of cryptozoology, they

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actually think of like urban
legends.

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And there's, yes, urban legends,
sometimes the monsters.

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The creatures can be categorized
as cryptids as well, but

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cryptozoology is a technical
science.

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Now, are you going to find it
in, you know, college

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classrooms?
No, probably not.

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There might be here's and
there's, but for the majority of

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it, you're not going to find it.
And these here, Jake, I like

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this.
This is cool because we get to

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spread the success stories of
cryptozoology.

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Why does it exist, right.
Is it all about going out and

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finding the Jersey Devil and the
Pine Barrens of New Jersey?

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Yes and no.
You know, you do have those

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people, those thrill seekers who
go out and look for these

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monsters, right?
Cryptozoology has this man it.

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I don't know.
It's it's got this flavor to it

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that everyone just thinks it's
got to be something about

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monsters.
Monsters that are there to harm

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you, that are there to kill you.
Dog men, they'll just slit your

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throat.
The reason why?

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Nobody you know.
Can tell you of a a run in with

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dog bands because nobody has
ever survived it.

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You know it's a it's so this is
cool this is this is good.

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We get to see the other side of
cryptozoology.

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The more scientific side the
more where when science did take

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this quite seriously and we got
some really cool discoveries out

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of it.
I know.

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I know of a handful right off
the bat but but so yeah cool

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man.
Let's roll.

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I'm down before I get into it
honestly when it comes to I'm

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going to keep this to you know
if the the more the more well

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known ones.
But really when it comes down to

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it, any place that has ever had
local people, native people,

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tribes, whatever that may look
like for that area in that

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region that had legends and
stories associated with certain

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animals and then later on they
were discovered to be true is

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considered cryptozoology.
So really you could get into all

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right, we have 1500 topics on
the docket, you know, and we're

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going to work our way through
them over the next 10 years.

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So that's true.
It it could be like that.

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But I'm going to stick to the
more well known ones.

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So that way I'm not just
repeating over and over again.

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You know, this week we're
talking about squirrels, the

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next week we're talking about
fox squirrels, and the next

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thing we're talking about Gray
squirrels, you know?

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Well, I I think the I like the
mountain gorilla because this

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is, this is something that was
Bigfoot esque.

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You know, back in the day there
was the lowland gorillas, and

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then the mountain gorillas were
the ones that were myth and

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fable.
The and then they were also

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vicious, which is another
symptom of cryptozoology.

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You know on the mainstream level
is that it's it's there to kill

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you.
So you you had some people that

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were really afraid to go up in
the mountains because of these

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gorillas that were killing
people.

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All right, now you shut your
face.

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You're gonna get in the get in
the way of all of my research

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and we're just gonna have a chat
conversation.

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OK, OK, OK.
All right, I'm done.

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I'm muting myself.
Go.

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All right, shut up.
Shut up.

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Now you're here.
I can remember times when I was

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a child and visited the local
zoo with my family.

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Seeing the animals there was so
fascinating.

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The ability to see birds of all
shapes and sizes beautifully

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colored, some from the most
remote places in the world.

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There were lions and tigers and
bears.

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Oh my.
But of all the amazing species,

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my attention was drawn to the
monkeys and the apes.

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As a matter of fact, my favorite
animal to this day is the howler

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monkey, but that's a story for
another time.

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It's really not that
interesting.

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I just like the way they sound.
My interest in these mammals was

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how similar they appeared to us.
They're human like faces with

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deep understanding eyes that
seem to reflect our own

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emotions.
Incredibly intelligent beings

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that have been observed creating
simple tools to help with

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foraging food and even can be
taught to speak sign language

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for communication with humans.
The other day I saw a short on

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YouTube where a visitor to a zoo
had brought her newborn baby to

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the gorilla enclosure.
On the other side of the glass

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was a female gorilla staring and
wonder at the baby.

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Then, to the onlooker surprise,
the gorilla ran away and

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collected her own baby.
She came back and proudly

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presented the offspring to the
other mother, as if to say,

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look, I have one too, We're the
same.

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I personally don't know how
someone could have seen the same

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video as me and not have been
moved with emotion or thrilled

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with excitement for the mother
primate and her newborn.

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In any case, if you want to know
the similarities and the

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differences between apes and us
shameless plug, check out our

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Aquatic Ape theory done by
Jeremy.

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He actually does a fantastic job
of it.

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But here in the age of the
Internet, vast resources of

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information, National
Geographic, etcetera, you'd be

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hard pressed to find a person,
except for remote indigenous

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tribes who haven't at least seen
a picture of one of these

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incredible creatures.
But of course, that wasn't

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always the case.
In fact, would you believe that

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the gorilla was once an animal
of mere myth and legend?

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We'll settle down and I'll tell
you a story of how these giant,

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elusive creatures were
discovered, went from the realm

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of a legend into reality.
Get it?

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Cryptids and whatnot, You get
it.

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The discovery of these massive
creatures didn't happen until

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1902.
Now, the lowland gorillas were

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already known to exist and had
been discovered by accident

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something like 2500 years ago in
circa 740 BC, where Hano, A

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Carthaginian navigator,
discovered the gorilla Greek for

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Tribe of Hairy Women.
He took three females on board

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his ship which died in the
voyage from now Sierra Leone to

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Rome, but was able to retain
their skins.

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Although it is believed that he
had actually encountered

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chimpanzees, not gorillas,
because he described their

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hostility and stone throwing,
which is not a behavioral trait

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for gorillas.
But the name stuck.

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Fast forward a cool 2000 years
and you have the account of an

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English sailor, Andrew Battelle,
who, encaptured in the western

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coast of Africa and 1559 by the
Portuguese, claim to have seen

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giant human like apes.
Now there's two species of

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gorilla, the eastern and western
types, with the eastern

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generally being a bit larger
than the western.

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Under those are 4 subspecies for
the western portion is the Cross

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River and the western Lowland.
These gorillas live in the

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tropical and subtropical regions
of Cameroon and Nigeria, and the

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only real physical difference
between them is actually the

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volume in which they
communicate, like legit their

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loudness of their howls and
whatnot.

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The eastern gorilla species has
the subspecies of the eastern

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lowland living in tropical
rainforests of the Democratic

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Republic of Congo, and the
mountain gorilla featured in

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this episode that resides in the
Virunga Mountains at elevations

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of 8 to 13,000 feet.
Yes, I said 13,000 like almost 2

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1/2 miles above sea level or
almost 4 kilometers for anyone

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outside the US Kind of makes
sense why they were the last to

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be discovered.
What do you think about that,

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Jeremy?
Good breakdown.

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Yeah, very good breakdown.
Thank you.

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Yeah, I throw humor in it.
You did?

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And I chuckled.
Yeah, I saw that.

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Yeah, that's that's why I needed
myself.

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But no, man, good stuff, good,
good stuff.

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I don't know what I can say.
I don't wanna, I don't wanna put

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too much out there.
I don't wanna take away from

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your shine.
Well, then it's gonna be a very

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short episode.
All right.

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Well, I mean, if that's it,
we'll just move on.

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Well, yeah.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

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I say what you gotta say.
No, no, no, no, no, no.

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Because I feel like what I'm
going to say is coming up next,

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it's a it's a very good
transitional piece.

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It's cuz you know my flow, you
know my description, legends,

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discovery, the same flow I have
for literally everything.

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00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,400
It's a good flow.
Good flow.

228
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,800
OK, yeah.
All right.

229
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:48,960
Now, just for everyone's sake, I
might butcher the names of

230
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,600
African places and geographical
locations and names and all that

231
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,080
stuff because I do not speak any
native African languages.

232
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,760
So just hang with me, but I'm
going to do my best.

233
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:08,880
Yeah, Lauren.
Yeah, Lauren, There isn't a

234
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,440
plethora of legends and lore
that come with the mountain

235
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,240
gorillas as a scene with Native
American tribes and the animals

236
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,600
that surround them.
As a matter of fact, I'm just

237
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240
using that as an example because
we we see a lot of that in

238
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,880
Native American tribes and we
also speak about that as well.

239
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,440
As a matter of fact, the bulk of
the myths come from explorers

240
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,430
that cross paths with them and
the western world post

241
00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:38,430
discovery.
Various legends of giant hairy

242
00:14:38,430 --> 00:14:42,350
man eating brutes that are more
likely to rip you limb from limb

243
00:14:42,670 --> 00:14:45,070
comes from outside locations
they populate.

244
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:50,030
However, there are some legends
and it's tied to an almost

245
00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:52,150
occult like worship of the
gorilla.

246
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:58,290
In my research I stumbled upon a
peer reviewed paper titled Who

247
00:14:58,290 --> 00:15:01,930
Knows what about Gorillas?
Indigenous Knowledge, Global

248
00:15:01,930 --> 00:15:06,610
Justice, and Human Guerrilla
Relations by Adam Amir, PhD,

249
00:15:06,970 --> 00:15:10,730
Communications Coordinator,
Totland Central Government.

250
00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:14,490
A lot of my presentation came
from this paper and it's

251
00:15:14,490 --> 00:15:18,490
refreshing since most of the
Guerrilla Fact websites seem to

252
00:15:18,490 --> 00:15:20,570
not be able to agree on really
anything.

253
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:25,330
Within this paper is section 2.2
Indigenous African Ways of

254
00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:29,100
Knowing Gorillas and within he
writes about the belief systems

255
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:33,020
from all over Africa regarding
gorillas, such as quote.

256
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:36,500
If a pregnant woman sees a
gorilla, she will give birth to

257
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:41,140
a baby gorilla and if a gorilla
is killed, a man connected to it

258
00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:45,940
via totem will die.
In Nigeria, hunters tell of a

259
00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:49,420
variation.
If a woman eats gorilla meat,

260
00:15:49,460 --> 00:15:51,420
she will give birth to a strong
baby.

261
00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:57,440
Some Fang groups refer to the
spirit of the gorilla as Esengui

262
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,680
or Father Gorilla.
They believe gorilla spirits to

263
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,960
be so potent upon encounter that
a pregnant woman would give

264
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,560
birth to a gorilla.
The Fang groups in northern

265
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,960
Gabon and southern Cameroon call
gorillas indie to refer to a

266
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,520
positive force, and the evil
force is actually represented by

267
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,880
chimpanzees, which actually, if
you kind of look at their

268
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,650
behaviors, gorillas seem to be
more elusive and docile and

269
00:16:25,650 --> 00:16:27,690
really just don't want to be
around anybody.

270
00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:30,930
They're vegetarians.
Chimpanzees will roam in packs,

271
00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:34,450
attack gangs of other
chimpanzees, and rip apart and

272
00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:37,610
eat monkeys, so I can see what
that would come into play.

273
00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:42,610
However, in Virunga the gorilla
is seen as a as a negative and

274
00:16:42,610 --> 00:16:46,450
saying its name, and Gagi brings
about bad luck.

275
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:50,810
The Quaale people of central
Cameroon believe that gorillas

276
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:54,530
are reincarnated people, and as
a matter of fact, there are a

277
00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:57,410
lot of shared belief systems
surrounding gorillas and

278
00:16:57,410 --> 00:17:00,890
reincarnation.
And not to go further and just

279
00:17:00,890 --> 00:17:03,770
quote the entire section, you
know, we'll move on.

280
00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:05,970
But please check out the link in
the description.

281
00:17:05,970 --> 00:17:08,010
The information is actually
pretty fascinating.

282
00:17:09,050 --> 00:17:12,890
Isn't it cool the the
comparisons, the parallels that

283
00:17:12,890 --> 00:17:16,569
you see from mountain gorillas
to Bigfoot.

284
00:17:18,109 --> 00:17:19,630
Look, look, I'm going to need
you to calm down.

285
00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:22,790
See, See.
I can't.

286
00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:28,150
Speak kind of stuff, no, I know.
But yeah, it's it's very

287
00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:35,430
similar.
So in relation to the bit that I

288
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:38,070
said about Native Americans, so
it's because we cover that a

289
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:40,310
lot.
Obviously we're in North

290
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:43,510
America.
We speak about the local legends

291
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:48,550
and lore and stuff quite often,
but in those sorts of cultures

292
00:17:48,750 --> 00:17:52,630
we you'd see they just didn't
have just, you know,

293
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:56,790
explanations and stories
regarding, you know, Sasquatch,

294
00:17:56,790 --> 00:17:58,670
which they most certainly have a
lot of.

295
00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:03,990
But they also covered really any
animal that they had contact

296
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:07,310
with on a regular basis.
And these various legendary

297
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:09,470
stories or mythological type
stories.

298
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:16,690
When it came to African culture,
their belief systems surrounding

299
00:18:16,690 --> 00:18:19,610
the gorilla was actually pretty
interesting because some of

300
00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:23,690
these belief systems came from
areas where gorillas are never

301
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:27,330
known to have existed.
And it's possible that they, the

302
00:18:27,330 --> 00:18:31,170
people that even to this day who
believe them, have never

303
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:33,930
actually seen a gorilla before
in real life.

304
00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:37,770
And when these belief systems
were coming together, they had

305
00:18:37,770 --> 00:18:41,050
never had contact with them, but
perhaps they had heard from

306
00:18:41,050 --> 00:18:45,470
different tribes about these
giant apes or whatever it was,

307
00:18:45,790 --> 00:18:47,910
and they have a shared belief
system.

308
00:18:47,910 --> 00:18:51,830
So it's literally all over the
African continent the the things

309
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:54,350
I talked about where a pregnant
woman sees a gorilla, she

310
00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:56,630
becomes pregnant with a gorilla,
or they eat gorilla meat, they

311
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:58,310
have a strong child or whatever
it is.

312
00:18:58,310 --> 00:19:02,630
Or this idea that warriors are
reincarnated into gorillas or

313
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:04,510
just people are reincarnated
into gorillas.

314
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:07,110
All sorts of stuff.
If if you're burying a person

315
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:11,500
and a gorilla shows up, that's
the spirit of the individual.

316
00:19:11,740 --> 00:19:14,660
Those sorts of beliefs are
shared throughout the African

317
00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:16,260
continent.
It's actually pretty

318
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:19,020
interesting.
Whereas guerrillas themselves

319
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:22,860
are only in a few select
locations within Africa.

320
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:25,220
And Africa's absolutely
gigantic, right.

321
00:19:25,940 --> 00:19:30,300
So it's it's actually really
interesting and the article that

322
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,540
went through and of course it'll
be in the description, but they

323
00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:37,460
go through a lot of that.
And I didn't want to just, you

324
00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:40,040
know, one thing after another
quoted, but kind of give

325
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,920
everybody a general idea of
these are some of the, you know,

326
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,640
religious type beliefs
surrounding these beings and

327
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,800
that isn't exclusive to mountain
gorillas or lowland gorillas or

328
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,120
you know, whatever Cross River
gorillas.

329
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,480
This is just in general as far
as what I found.

330
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,400
Specific mountain, Gorilla
legends really.

331
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:11,090
Well, I'm not going to say they
didn't exist, but I truly

332
00:20:11,090 --> 00:20:15,490
couldn't find any.
But the stories remained.

333
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:19,850
And after, you know, I, I don't
know how to describe it, but I

334
00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:26,170
guess maybe scientists at the
time or you know, field

335
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:29,730
researchers weren't expecting
another type subspecies of

336
00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,560
gorilla to exist.
So that's why it kind of went

337
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,200
into the realm of mythology.
And then of course I had

338
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,240
mentioned that it wasn't till
actually they were discovered in

339
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,880
1902 that all those really
crazy, you know, monstrous

340
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,960
cannibal type legends start
actually springing up.

341
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,160
And that came from the Western
world.

342
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,400
And you can see that in relation
to like King Kong, which I

343
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,880
believe is from the 20s or 30s,
where there's this vicious,

344
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,130
monstrous thing and everything
and and that's lies or or

345
00:21:01,130 --> 00:21:05,490
falsehoods or or stories
perpetuated by the Western

346
00:21:05,490 --> 00:21:09,890
world's ignorance of what these
animals actually were.

347
00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:12,170
And so that was actually pretty
interesting to see.

348
00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:16,610
Do you talk about the water
babajon at all Now Go for it.

349
00:21:17,890 --> 00:21:18,930
Oh, really?
Yeah.

350
00:21:19,890 --> 00:21:22,410
It's actually a South African
Bigfoot.

351
00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:26,530
So yes, the Guerrilla lore goes
throughout the.

352
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:32,220
Entire continent of Africa, but
there are smaller sections of

353
00:21:32,460 --> 00:21:35,740
what they what they describe as
upright walking gorillas,

354
00:21:36,580 --> 00:21:39,340
something that we would describe
here in the United States as

355
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:47,180
Bigfoot.
The water Babajon is I think it

356
00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:49,540
has a different name.
I think it's like Fudu or FUBU.

357
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:56,420
Something along those lines.
There's there's some debate.

358
00:21:56,910 --> 00:21:59,750
On whether or not it's more
gorilla like or more baboon

359
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:04,590
like, but the the skeletal
structures there it's a it's an

360
00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:10,550
upright walking primate and it
man, I don't want to butcher

361
00:22:10,550 --> 00:22:12,870
this because I don't have the
research right in front of me.

362
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:18,070
But I want to say that when the
natives of Africa talk about

363
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:21,790
whether or not they're talking
about gorillas by their numerous

364
00:22:21,790 --> 00:22:24,390
different names, the same thing
where these Bigfoot type

365
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:26,770
creatures.
Is basically whether or not

366
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:29,050
they're hunched over and walking
on their knuckles or if they're

367
00:22:29,050 --> 00:22:32,410
standing up straight.
And there's a lot of lot of

368
00:22:32,410 --> 00:22:34,730
people that actually believe
that they're interchangeable,

369
00:22:35,050 --> 00:22:37,690
that, you know, just like us
here in the United States, we

370
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:41,610
there has been plenty of
sightings of Bigfoot.

371
00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:44,930
When they're running full speed,
they're down on all fours and

372
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:48,170
they're running like you know
what we would typically view as

373
00:22:48,170 --> 00:22:52,210
gorilla run.
But when they're walking or just

374
00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:57,430
casually moving about?
They're up on 2 feet, and that's

375
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:59,990
something that we could be
seeing here in Africa as well.

376
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:05,190
And you could be getting
interchangeable interchangeable

377
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:11,310
names, interchangeable reports
or legends or mythologies about

378
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:15,750
gorillas or vice versa.
No, I agree.

379
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:21,270
And the reasoning for me not
getting into any of the other

380
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:26,390
crypted tie ins is because them
and themselves can be their own,

381
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:31,550
their own episodes, but also, I
believe, their own entities

382
00:23:31,550 --> 00:23:36,390
entirely.
So I mean we have what the yaoi,

383
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:43,710
the Erin, the Sasquatch, skunk,
ape, Yeti, you know, all these

384
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:47,350
various things.
But when you come into the realm

385
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:50,950
of, you know, these are
mythologies about gorillas.

386
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:54,320
And you know, considering that
this belief system has been

387
00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,720
around for quite some time in
Africa, it it's more likely that

388
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,480
anybody from outside of that
continent would have made-up

389
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,560
their own, you know, stories or
whatever.

390
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:14,560
Or, you know, having not ever
seen a gorilla would have been

391
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,760
fantastically pulled in by these
stories.

392
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,440
But what the Africans were
actually referring to is a real

393
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,320
animal that we have today or a
real discovered animal rather,

394
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,400
you know, something that's been
proven versus pulling in a bunch

395
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,840
of other cryptids or, you know,
Sasquatch type cryptids and

396
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,520
pulling them into this episode
and saying like, oh, could be

397
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,320
this, it could be that.
Well, no, because once, you

398
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,880
know, it was verified by someone
else, they were like, Oh yeah,

399
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,200
that's exactly what we're
talking about.

400
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:48,190
They just just no one outside
the continent knew, right.

401
00:24:48,510 --> 00:24:52,390
Yeah, yeah.
I have enough really to add.

402
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:56,550
Again, I'm walking on glass
here, except for I can probably

403
00:24:56,870 --> 00:25:01,190
add some names like the Ma
Punguari, the Amus, and then the

404
00:25:01,190 --> 00:25:06,070
smaller Orang Pandek.
Of course, there's 10s of

405
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:09,780
hundreds of different names for.
Befa like creatures around the

406
00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:11,060
world.
Just wanted to throw those ones

407
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:12,860
out there 10s of hundreds, some
would say 10s.

408
00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:15,260
Of hundreds, 10s.
Of hundreds.

409
00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:19,180
Yeah.
Took the long route.

410
00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:23,660
Yeah, hundreds.
Hundreds of ones.

411
00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:27,540
We're the world's most okayest
podcast, so in the world.

412
00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:31,260
Yeah, that's right.
Alrighty.

413
00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:36,100
So what about these mountain
gorillas, the indigenous people

414
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:40,260
that resided alongside the
mountain gorilla before the time

415
00:25:40,260 --> 00:25:46,140
of discovery, where the Echuya
Batwa in Uganda and the Tois in

416
00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:49,660
Rwanda?
I put time of discovery in

417
00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:54,660
quotes, obviously because they
already knew about the gorillas.

418
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:58,740
But as history has shown, no one
really seems to care about what

419
00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:01,620
the locals know until some
random foreigner shows up and

420
00:26:01,620 --> 00:26:04,420
discovers something you know,
also in quotes.

421
00:26:04,620 --> 00:26:07,020
And then somehow, it's valid
anyway.

422
00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:10,300
These tribes, also known as
Pygmies, which is probably a

423
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:14,340
more familiar word to people,
existed alongside the mountain

424
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:17,860
gorillas high up in the forest
and cared for the animals in the

425
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:20,820
landscape with their hunter
gatherer lifestyles.

426
00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:25,580
And there they resided for
thousands of years, considering

427
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,380
they are known to be one of the
oldest people groups in

428
00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:31,500
existence.
Until one day, you guessed it, A

429
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:36,100
foreign German explorer, Captain
Robert Vaughn Bering shows up.

430
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:42,550
On August 19th, 1902, Captain
Behring Physician Dr. Anglin, 20

431
00:26:42,550 --> 00:26:46,710
or so men and porters visited
Rwanda's Sultan Messinga.

432
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:51,150
They left there to travel to a
row of volcanoes to visit the

433
00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:53,350
German outpost located in the
mountains.

434
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:58,230
Fun fact, Rwanda was claimed by
Germany as a territory during

435
00:26:58,230 --> 00:27:02,990
the 1884 Berlin Conference until
the control ended in 1962.

436
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:08,610
To quote Bearings report of the
expedition, quote from October

437
00:27:08,610 --> 00:27:13,490
16th to 18th, Senior Physician
Dr. Anglin and I, together with

438
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:17,690
only a few Ascari's and the
absoluteness necessary baggage,

439
00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:22,890
attempted to climb the so far
unknown Kurunga ya Sabinio,

440
00:27:23,370 --> 00:27:25,970
which according to my
estimateation must have been a

441
00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:30,690
height of 3300 meters.
At the end of the first day we

442
00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:34,010
camped on a plateau at the
height of 2500 meters.

443
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:38,110
The natives climbed up to our
campsite to generously supply us

444
00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:40,790
with food.
We left our camp on October

445
00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:46,870
17th, taking with us a tent, 8
loads of water, 5 ascari's and

446
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:51,190
porters as necessary.
After 4 1/2 hours of tracking we

447
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:54,990
reached a height of 3100 meters
and tracked through the bamboo

448
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:58,270
forest.
Although using elephant trails

449
00:27:58,270 --> 00:28:01,150
for most of the way, we
encountered much undergrowth

450
00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:04,230
which was to be cut down before
we could pass.

451
00:28:04,910 --> 00:28:08,190
After two hours we reached a
Stony area with vegetation

452
00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:11,070
consisting mainly of BlackBerry
and blueberry bushes.

453
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:14,630
Step by step we noticed the
vegetation becoming poorer and

454
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:17,990
poorer, the ascent becoming
steeper and steeper and the

455
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:21,910
climb becoming more difficult.
For the last 1 1/4 hours we

456
00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:25,550
climbed only over rock.
After covering the ground with

457
00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:28,830
Moss we collected.
We erected our tent on a Ridge

458
00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:32,570
at a height of 3100 meters.
The Ridge was extremely narrow

459
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:34,810
so that the pegs of the tent
could be secured.

460
00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:38,730
In the abyss, the ascaris and
the porters found shelter in a

461
00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:42,410
rock in rock caverns which
provided protection against the

462
00:28:42,410 --> 00:28:45,690
biting cold wind.
From our campsite we were able

463
00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:49,690
to watch a herd of big black
monkeys which tried to climb the

464
00:28:49,690 --> 00:28:53,330
Crest of a volcano.
We succeeded in killing two of

465
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:56,610
these animals and with a
rumbling noise they tumbled into

466
00:28:56,610 --> 00:29:01,620
a ravine which had its opening
in a N northeasterly direction.

467
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:06,980
After five hours of strenuous,
strenuous work, we succeeded in

468
00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:09,260
retrieving one of these animals
using a rope.

469
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:14,620
It was a big human like male
monkey of 1 1/2 meters in height

470
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:19,740
and weighing more than £200.
Its chest had no hair and his

471
00:29:19,740 --> 00:29:21,980
hands and feet were of enormous
size.

472
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:25,740
Unfortunately, I was unable to
determine its type.

473
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:28,670
Because of its size, it could
not very well have been a

474
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:32,270
chimpanzee or a gorilla, and in
any case, the presence of

475
00:29:32,270 --> 00:29:34,470
gorillas had not been
established in the area around

476
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:37,390
the lakes.
End Quote A sample was collected

477
00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:40,710
of two gorillas that had been
killed and were sent to a museum

478
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:43,550
in Berlin, and it was determined
that Bearing had discovered a

479
00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:47,510
new species and guessed what?
Yep, they were named after him.

480
00:29:47,670 --> 00:29:49,630
The gorilla Baranga Baranga,
isn't it?

481
00:29:50,790 --> 00:29:55,510
Isn't it stupid?
That a foreigner has to come in

482
00:29:55,630 --> 00:30:00,190
and verify the legends of the
locals in order for it to be

483
00:30:00,190 --> 00:30:02,670
accepted by science.
Yeah, I was actually going to go

484
00:30:02,670 --> 00:30:04,750
on a pretty substantial rant
during this.

485
00:30:04,750 --> 00:30:09,950
I got kind of irritated because
that seems to be, I mean, that's

486
00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:16,550
just commonplace, you know?
And yeah, it's basically like

487
00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:21,670
the locals have their stories or
their sightings or, you know,

488
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:24,270
it's like the white moose and
the Amazon.

489
00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:28,790
There's pictures, black and
white pictures, but pictures

490
00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:32,430
nonetheless in the Amazon
rainforest of white moose.

491
00:30:33,390 --> 00:30:38,150
Now whether they are albino
moose or whatever that other one

492
00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:40,470
is, where instead of red eyes,
they have blue eyes and they are

493
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:44,670
white.
But no one actually holds any

494
00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:46,110
credit to them.
And that's why they sent

495
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:48,790
Expedition to the Amazon to
discover these white moose.

496
00:30:48,790 --> 00:30:52,030
Because who cares what the
locals say or what they see all

497
00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:54,110
the time?
We have to discover it, and then

498
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:58,030
somehow it becomes valid.
And then the guy who discovers

499
00:30:58,030 --> 00:31:01,150
the thing then gets his name
associated with it, which is

500
00:31:01,150 --> 00:31:03,150
stupid.
It is.

501
00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:05,630
It's like, how about the tribe
that live next to them and say,

502
00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:08,070
hey, we interact with these
things all the time, you know?

503
00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:10,330
Name them after the tribe at
least.

504
00:31:10,490 --> 00:31:12,490
Yeah, right.
At least give them some damn

505
00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:14,250
credit.
No, I 100% agree.

506
00:31:14,610 --> 00:31:21,130
It's funny if I'm not, if I'm
not wrong, earlier this little

507
00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:24,130
paragraph that you have here,
you were talking about them

508
00:31:24,130 --> 00:31:28,010
climbing the mountain and that
some of the locals just climbed

509
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:30,610
up at night and gave them some
food.

510
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:33,450
It was like like nothing.
But these guys, this great

511
00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:37,570
adventure about it just shows
you like, yeah, we you know,

512
00:31:37,570 --> 00:31:39,830
we'll.
Explorers keep theirselves on

513
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:42,910
such a high pedestal and that
they have to go out and play

514
00:31:42,910 --> 00:31:46,750
these verifiers of things.
But yet, this grand adventure

515
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:51,590
that they're going on to, you
know, 1300 feet before they get

516
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:54,870
to their first break is done in
like an hour or two by the

517
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:56,110
locals.
Yeah, right.

518
00:31:56,550 --> 00:31:57,790
Here you go.
Knock it out.

519
00:31:59,190 --> 00:32:00,830
There's all the stuff you left
at the bottom.

520
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:06,110
Yeah, for real, it's.
Kind of stupid, but no.

521
00:32:07,150 --> 00:32:09,110
That's pretty cool, man.
That's all stuff.

522
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:13,750
Like, I've never really had a
chance to dive into the history

523
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:15,750
of the gorilla and how it was
found.

524
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:18,270
That's freaking cool, man.
I dig it.

525
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:25,990
Yeah, well, unfortunately we're
gonna get into the result of

526
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:33,580
that finding, which isn't so
great, but but it's it's very,

527
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:36,220
it's very classic.
And generally what happens when

528
00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:38,620
a new animal is discovered, you
know it.

529
00:32:38,620 --> 00:32:40,980
Which is interesting, too,
because the mountain gorilla

530
00:32:40,980 --> 00:32:46,020
doesn't really look anything
different than the rest of the

531
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:49,420
gorillas.
Like, it's not like, I don't

532
00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:53,100
know, like Darwin's finches
where it has the same species of

533
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,420
Finch, but this one has a
pointed beak and this one has a

534
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:58,860
curved beak.
You know those sorts of things

535
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:03,850
from isolation, adaptation and
you know, microevolution.

536
00:33:04,170 --> 00:33:06,610
But really there is no
difference.

537
00:33:06,770 --> 00:33:11,170
The subspecies are split because
of the location that they live

538
00:33:11,170 --> 00:33:13,850
in.
And that location could end up

539
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:18,170
going into, like I had
mentioned, the western ones or

540
00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:19,410
the eastern ones, whichever it
was.

541
00:33:19,410 --> 00:33:22,570
But the the volume of their
communication, well, depending

542
00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:24,130
on like what they're
communicating through, whether

543
00:33:24,130 --> 00:33:28,210
it's trees or a plane landscape,
you know, it makes sense.

544
00:33:28,210 --> 00:33:32,530
But yeah, it's like, I don't
know what the immediate

545
00:33:32,530 --> 00:33:35,530
fascination would have been for
these things.

546
00:33:36,370 --> 00:33:41,490
Yeah, the finches, the beaks
actually were representation of

547
00:33:41,490 --> 00:33:43,210
what their preferred food source
was.

548
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:49,570
So if you had finches that
preferred like a nectar, right,

549
00:33:49,610 --> 00:33:52,410
they would have longer beaks
that could go into the bulb of

550
00:33:52,410 --> 00:33:56,210
the flower if you had the ones
that were used as like, you

551
00:33:56,250 --> 00:33:58,450
know, kind of like a woodpecker
sort of thing where they would

552
00:33:58,450 --> 00:34:01,720
chisel at pieces of bark.
You would have something shorter

553
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,080
and fatter.
That way it could hit a little

554
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,480
bit harder and be more
successful or wouldn't snap off

555
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,840
like the longer beaks would.
The hooked ones were the ones

556
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,920
that would like seeds and
whatnot.

557
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,440
No, they would spear worms and
stuff.

558
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,080
Yeah, there you go.
But yeah, the finches, That's a

559
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,480
pretty cool story.
But yeah, absolutely, man.

560
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,639
Yeah, it's kind of silly.
So what happened next?

561
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:31,980
Well, in classic fashion,
European zoos offered big bucks

562
00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:35,300
to anyone who could capture this
new subspecies of great ape.

563
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,020
The adults were way too
difficult to capture, so they

564
00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:43,100
resorted to stealing babies.
Also, they are poached to Dang

565
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:48,659
near extinction for their fur
and meat by the year 1978.

566
00:34:48,739 --> 00:34:51,139
There around 400 left in
existence.

567
00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:54,420
In the 1980s.
The population remains stable

568
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:56,980
and grew slightly due to the
glamour wearing down.

569
00:34:58,050 --> 00:34:59,370
So you want to hear something
messed up?

570
00:35:00,130 --> 00:35:04,410
In 1991, the government of
Uganda forced the Pygmies to

571
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:06,650
leave their homes in the
mountains so that they could

572
00:35:06,650 --> 00:35:10,090
make the area an impenetrable
National Forest for guerrilla

573
00:35:10,090 --> 00:35:13,250
conservation.
So the tribes uprooted

574
00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:15,890
everything and were forced to
join modern life.

575
00:35:16,610 --> 00:35:19,610
They are now considered one of
the poorest groups of people on

576
00:35:19,610 --> 00:35:22,620
Earth.
I don't like this, considering

577
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:25,140
they lived alongside the
mountain gorillas for so long

578
00:35:25,140 --> 00:35:27,540
without any problems.
I mean, they didn't even hunt

579
00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:31,780
the gorillas and they called
them Sacamunto, which means just

580
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:33,580
like me.
And that's how they regarded

581
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:36,500
them so.
This happens with the Native

582
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:39,220
Americans too.
I get it right.

583
00:35:39,740 --> 00:35:43,900
The one thing that we can say
about the Africans is that

584
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:48,060
they're incredible lengths
they've gone through for

585
00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:52,220
conservation for the elephant,
for the, you know, rhinos, for

586
00:35:52,220 --> 00:35:54,460
the gorillas.
It's just top notch.

587
00:35:54,900 --> 00:36:00,100
Like, not only is it, you know,
they keep them in these massive

588
00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:05,620
parks or massive nature, nature
preserves or whatever, but also,

589
00:36:05,620 --> 00:36:10,120
I mean, there's incredible
penalties for poaching, right?

590
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,120
Like they're, they don't mess
around.

591
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120
It's not like, oh, you're going
to lose your hunting license.

592
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,320
Like, you know, it's it's pretty
rough.

593
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,560
Like people get killed for
getting caught poaching in these

594
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,400
areas, for trying to attack the
rhinos or the gorillas or

595
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,200
whatever.
And I understand that.

596
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,960
I understand from a conservation
perspective the need to protect

597
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,440
these animals, especially so
they don't get just wiped off

598
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:38,240
the face of the Earth.
But to move a population that

599
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,520
for the last, well, I don't
know, 4005 thousand years has

600
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:48,320
lived alongside these, these
creatures in complete balance

601
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,480
with them.
They don't hunt them.

602
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,600
They don't have any problems
with each other.

603
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,400
Yes, the Pygmies are hunter
gatherers or we're hunter

604
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,360
gatherers, but they ate like
forest antelope and collected,

605
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,520
you know, medicines from the
trees and the plants and they,

606
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,080
you know, ate the plant life and
all that sort of stuff.

607
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:11,540
But to like kick them out of
their homes, I don't know.

608
00:37:11,540 --> 00:37:14,740
I think there should have been
some kind of a agreement or

609
00:37:14,740 --> 00:37:19,260
compromise done there.
I don't disagree, but I'll tell

610
00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:21,820
you what, I'm very curious about
Bigfoot.

611
00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:26,620
You told me to shut up, so I
wanna know about it.

612
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:29,860
I wanna know your connection
here.

613
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:36,500
All right, so getting into,
getting into the end then.

614
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,080
Sorry, I I just.
I have more to talk about there.

615
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,280
Well, yeah, I mean, once, once
we're done with this, I'm

616
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,520
actually surprised we're going
this long.

617
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,240
But once we're done with this,
we can chat about it all you

618
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:48,680
want.
It's no big deal.

619
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,600
I don't really have any giant
tieins, but I'll just kind of do

620
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,480
my my final rant.
Yeah, this story for me rings

621
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,240
the Bigfoot bell in my brain.
No, I'm not saying that gorillas

622
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,680
in Sasquatch are the same, but a
missing portion of the Greater 8

623
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,370
family.
Yeah, maybe.

624
00:38:09,170 --> 00:38:12,490
Here in this episode we
discussed the local legends and

625
00:38:12,490 --> 00:38:16,570
belief systems surrounding the
African tribes who had contact

626
00:38:16,570 --> 00:38:18,130
and runins with the mountain
gorillas.

627
00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:21,650
You heard about the knowledge of
other types of gorillas that we

628
00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:25,410
were already known to exist, but
it wasn't until some guy with

629
00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:28,650
the various degree of authority
shows up and says, hey, these

630
00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:31,330
things are here that the
discovery is made.

631
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:35,870
All I'm saying is that if we had
less people out there in the

632
00:38:35,870 --> 00:38:39,670
woods trying to attract the
Sasquatch with their yelling and

633
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:42,630
screaming, we might actually get
something discovered.

634
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:46,270
And with all the reports of hair
samples being collected coming

635
00:38:46,270 --> 00:38:49,790
back inconclusive for DNA, but
that's where it stops.

636
00:38:49,790 --> 00:38:53,550
I mean, what's up with that?
What is the level of authority

637
00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:57,510
needed to discover something?
Maybe we need to get some random

638
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:59,510
foreign guy to come take a look
around.

639
00:38:59,950 --> 00:39:03,220
I don't know.
But at the same time, and I

640
00:39:03,220 --> 00:39:06,500
really don't want to see it
discovered and then hunted to

641
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:10,180
extinction or forced into cages
to be jeered at in the same

642
00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:12,540
fashion as the gorillas when
they were discovered.

643
00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:15,340
I'll tell you what, if in a
rabbit hole will go find them,

644
00:39:15,540 --> 00:39:18,260
but don't expect us to recover a
body because that's messed up

645
00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:20,540
and we won't tell anybody about
it either.

646
00:39:20,660 --> 00:39:25,900
But we'll know.
We'll report on it right here.

647
00:39:26,180 --> 00:39:28,580
You see a rabbit hole?
We'll tell you that we didn't

648
00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:29,780
see it.
That's right.

649
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:31,500
But we did.
And you'll know.

650
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,320
You know what that means if you
listen.

651
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,240
Hey man, maybe we do maybe we
just need a foreigner to come

652
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:40,800
over here and confirm that
Bigfoot are are real simple as

653
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,440
that.
Any foreign people over there

654
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,160
that want to come over to
America and verify this?

655
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,920
It can't be from from England or
anywhere in the UK, That's too

656
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,280
easy.
Must be from some place like I

657
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,320
don't Germany or something and.
Let's let's do the exchange from

658
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,320
Africa.
Yeah, I was going to say that.

659
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,760
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly perfect.

660
00:40:02,830 --> 00:40:05,030
Perfect.
Yep, I agree.

661
00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:08,270
Talk about Bigfoot, man.
What'd you have in your mind?

662
00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:11,870
I just didn't want you to jump
and start talking about the apes

663
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:15,390
and whatnot of the gorillas.
Well, I don't want to.

664
00:40:15,390 --> 00:40:17,550
I don't want to turn this into a
Bigfoot episode.

665
00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:20,070
I want to try to keep this
gorillas, but I don't have too

666
00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:22,950
much to say on gorillas, you
know, it's just it's the

667
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:26,470
comparison between gorillas and
Bigfoot, right?

668
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:28,790
It's because they're greater
apes.

669
00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:31,800
Yeah.
Well that not, not just that but

670
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,440
you had, you had the myth, the
lore, the the stories of apes

671
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,040
and you know, the the mountains
and the lowlands in in Africa.

672
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,480
And you have the same thing here
you you have all kinds of

673
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,840
stories of upright humans or
humanoids or or what do they

674
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,360
call them, wild men.
It was a, it was a very popular

675
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,320
word that was translated into
many different languages that

676
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:04,050
the native spoke.
There's a lot of parallels, you

677
00:41:04,050 --> 00:41:07,210
know, especially when you come
to the natives, like the tribes

678
00:41:07,210 --> 00:41:11,450
in Africa or the tribes here in
in America who had these

679
00:41:11,450 --> 00:41:14,050
discussions and and
conversations, these stories

680
00:41:14,050 --> 00:41:19,490
about these, these hairy apes,
whether or not be a gorilla or

681
00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:22,450
Bigfoot.
And the difference is, is so

682
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:28,570
far, the African gorillas were
confirmed to be real here,

683
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:31,690
right?
Where, like you said, there's

684
00:41:31,730 --> 00:41:34,490
there's plenty of evidence,
there's evidence up the ass.

685
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:36,330
Let's just be honest about it.
Oh, yeah, there is.

686
00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:41,530
But we just haven't had the
right person see it and that's

687
00:41:41,530 --> 00:41:43,050
where the that's the
differences.

688
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:50,490
We need the right person.
And you know, so I guess, I

689
00:41:50,490 --> 00:41:55,930
guess the real confirmation
right was the body, right?

690
00:41:55,930 --> 00:41:58,790
They brought the body back.
Actually, not even.

691
00:41:58,790 --> 00:42:02,630
They didn't even bring the body.
They brought a patch of skin

692
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:06,150
from one of their hands.
They shot two of them, held them

693
00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:10,230
and just cut off like a little
piece of skin from the back of

694
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:12,550
their hands and sent it to this
museum in Berlin.

695
00:42:12,910 --> 00:42:15,910
So I guess they had a sample,
but that'll do it.

696
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:18,350
That'll do.
It for the rest of them to rot

697
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:19,390
it.
Like what?

698
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:22,190
What's wrong with you people?
Well, look at those people.

699
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:24,110
You know, this is, this is what
we got to do.

700
00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:27,760
We got to go in the woods, find
a Bigfoot, shoot its hand off,

701
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,040
cauterize it because we're not
Dicks.

702
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,480
And then we'll take the the hand
and we'll present it to science

703
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,240
and be like, listen, this was
found in Wisconsin.

704
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,600
Tell me that this is not real.
I don't know.

705
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,600
I think they'd be better off
just finding out where they live

706
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,760
and then searching that area for
their burial spot.

707
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,480
I think that would be less
messed up, doing grave digging

708
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,560
versus maiming something.
That's how they did it in the

709
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,480
old days.
In Africa, they.

710
00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:58,180
I know it won't work and why
would it work?

711
00:42:59,140 --> 00:43:02,380
Now, no, it is, it is crazy.
I mean, those stories of the

712
00:43:02,420 --> 00:43:06,140
inconclusive DNA for the hair
samples where they can say that

713
00:43:06,140 --> 00:43:09,980
it's some kind of primate type
thing, right?

714
00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:13,980
Because it doesn't have the same
hair structure as a wolf or a

715
00:43:13,980 --> 00:43:18,260
bear, whatever it is, you know,
a canine or, you know, a pig or

716
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:21,260
anything like that.
But then that's literally where

717
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:24,100
it stops.
It'll come back inconclusive.

718
00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:28,010
And then?
You know, and then the the

719
00:43:28,050 --> 00:43:33,090
provider of it either never gets
the sample back or when they do

720
00:43:33,450 --> 00:43:37,010
there is zero help that they get
from the actual scientific

721
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:40,410
community to do anything into
well, let's find out what this

722
00:43:40,410 --> 00:43:43,090
is then.
You know, I don't know why they

723
00:43:43,090 --> 00:43:46,570
spend this enormous amount of
time looking for, you know,

724
00:43:46,570 --> 00:43:51,450
another type of itty bitty tiny
frog when there is a possibility

725
00:43:51,450 --> 00:43:55,010
we have another type of great
ape living in our own backyard.

726
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,960
Could you imagine that?
Could you imagine, I mean, you

727
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,840
know, to each its own right,
different flavors or different

728
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,000
folks.
But to me the upright walking

729
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:12,040
Sasquatch in the woods of North
America is incredibly exciting.

730
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,840
Incredibly exciting.
Like this would be one of the

731
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,270
biggest discoveries in the
history of man be one of I mean,

732
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:25,030
I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
give it the crown and say like

733
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:29,550
this is the biggest one but this
is this would be pretty Dang

734
00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:33,950
big.
Next to Dragons for Jeff, Am I

735
00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:39,830
right, Jeff?
Old Jeffrey, old Jeffrey.

736
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:47,190
This was cool, man.
You like it?

737
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:50,570
I did.
I did like this and like, I'm

738
00:44:50,690 --> 00:44:55,610
I'm curious.
I'm curious because this was an

739
00:44:56,050 --> 00:44:58,970
easy one to have a conversation
about, right?

740
00:44:59,370 --> 00:45:04,770
Bigfoots, big Feets or Bigfoots?
I was gonna say that's probably

741
00:45:04,770 --> 00:45:06,690
probably the more correct way to
to say it.

742
00:45:07,530 --> 00:45:12,290
Big futches.
It's such an easy comparison.

743
00:45:12,850 --> 00:45:17,530
It's very, very easy, but I'm
sure you're gonna get into later

744
00:45:17,530 --> 00:45:21,610
on down the series like the cola
camp and and and the such, and

745
00:45:21,610 --> 00:45:23,450
I'm curious where you're gonna
go with that, That's.

746
00:45:24,210 --> 00:45:27,170
It's a tough one, man.
Thylacene's a good one.

747
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:34,770
The platypus that was encrypted,
you know, various things like

748
00:45:34,770 --> 00:45:37,370
that.
I mean, yeah, I mean it's it's

749
00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:43,290
it's something that I wanted to
do for a while and it was just

750
00:45:43,290 --> 00:45:46,890
so that we can.
Get the listeners to kind of

751
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:51,770
understand our point of view,
that our interest in this isn't

752
00:45:51,770 --> 00:45:56,210
from merely the perspective of
people that want the mythology

753
00:45:56,210 --> 00:45:59,850
or the legends to become real,
but that this has happened

754
00:45:59,850 --> 00:46:02,530
before.
There's evidence behind this

755
00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:06,170
that this pseudoscience of
cryptozoology, or, you know,

756
00:46:06,210 --> 00:46:10,010
science of cryptozoology, has
been it has worked out.

757
00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:14,130
Before and maybe it wasn't
considered at that time to be

758
00:46:14,130 --> 00:46:17,330
cryptozoology, but with the
definition of cryptozoology and

759
00:46:17,330 --> 00:46:21,370
what its purpose is, I mean
that's what it is, right?

760
00:46:21,850 --> 00:46:26,130
So we'll get into more of these
topics and and they'll be

761
00:46:26,130 --> 00:46:29,970
relatively short.
You know what, We'll do our

762
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:33,290
conversation piece right here
and then you know if you, if you

763
00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:35,990
bounce over to the new.
Channel.

764
00:46:36,070 --> 00:46:39,150
It'll be the documentary type
style and it probably only be 20

765
00:46:39,150 --> 00:46:43,230
minutes long, 25 minutes long.
But it's not to turn this into a

766
00:46:43,230 --> 00:46:45,990
documentary about gorillas.
It's to just talk about this

767
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:50,070
thing, a couple legends around
it who discovered it when it

768
00:46:50,070 --> 00:46:52,790
became known to the rest of the
world that this is an animal

769
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:55,510
that exists.
And it's no longer just stuck in

770
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:59,550
that realm of the local people
around it are saying, hey,

771
00:46:59,550 --> 00:47:04,270
there's this, you know, duck
billed, egg laying venomous.

772
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,060
Mammal.
Yeah, that's hotter.

773
00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:10,740
You know that, you know, that's
living in the waters.

774
00:47:10,820 --> 00:47:13,420
And then it's actually
discovered by science and it's

775
00:47:13,420 --> 00:47:15,220
like, okay.
Now the rest of the world knows

776
00:47:15,460 --> 00:47:19,100
a platypus actually exists.
But yeah, just just like that.

777
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:24,100
And probably just a refreshing
note of instead of us saying, Oh

778
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:28,460
yeah, this could exist or this,
I believe that this could be a

779
00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:30,660
real thing or whatever.
It's like, Nope, these are real

780
00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:32,460
things that exist.
This is a crypto.

781
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:35,530
This is a crypted right?
Right, yeah.

782
00:47:36,810 --> 00:47:42,290
Couple things to add. 1 you had
made the the the point about DNA

783
00:47:42,290 --> 00:47:45,490
missing and everything for the
for the Bigfoot, for anybody

784
00:47:45,490 --> 00:47:47,930
that wants to look into it.
Eventually we'll cover it here

785
00:47:47,930 --> 00:47:50,450
on the infinite rabbit hole.
But Melba Ketchum did a

786
00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:54,810
something called the the genome
project, which is what she was

787
00:47:54,810 --> 00:47:57,690
trying to do, was to map the
genome of the of the Bigfoot and

788
00:47:57,690 --> 00:48:01,380
prove it by DNA that this thing
does exist.

789
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:06,180
Very interesting.
I know Melba Ketchum is a very

790
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:10,220
she's hitting her miss in the
community.

791
00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:13,260
Of course, if you're in the
Bigfoot community, right.

792
00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:15,660
If you're in the cryptic
community and you're one of

793
00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:19,060
these these researchers and I'm
doing this with air quotes,

794
00:48:19,060 --> 00:48:21,620
right.
Because you know everyone is a

795
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:23,420
researcher.
I'm not a researcher.

796
00:48:23,420 --> 00:48:25,220
I can tell you every now I read
books.

797
00:48:26,020 --> 00:48:27,740
I research.
I research the Internet.

798
00:48:28,460 --> 00:48:31,100
Yeah, that's that's about it.
We're not, we're not field

799
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:32,580
agents.
I can guarantee that.

800
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:35,340
I mean, eventually, one day,
right?

801
00:48:35,780 --> 00:48:37,660
One day, maybe we don't.
We'll get out there.

802
00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:40,940
I would love to do it, but I'm
not claiming that whatsoever.

803
00:48:40,940 --> 00:48:45,340
But the people who do go out
there and do this, you know,

804
00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:48,900
because there's such a rat race
about who can get there first.

805
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:53,420
Melba Ketchum did put it in a
ton of hard work, right?

806
00:48:54,620 --> 00:48:59,230
But 90% of the Bigfoot community
will will call bullshit on it.

807
00:49:00,030 --> 00:49:03,790
And it's strictly just because
she went at it very

808
00:49:03,790 --> 00:49:06,310
scientifically, very
scientifically.

809
00:49:06,670 --> 00:49:11,190
And to her, she believes that
she has proof right?

810
00:49:12,030 --> 00:49:16,470
One the the the scientific
community, the mainstream

811
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:19,150
scientific community, they're
not going to give it the time of

812
00:49:19,150 --> 00:49:22,550
day and neither are the people
you know in cryptozoology

813
00:49:22,550 --> 00:49:25,670
because well, if she proved it,
that means I'm not going to

814
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:30,910
prove it, you know, and and such
a stupid thing, it really is.

815
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:33,990
And then the other thing I
wanted to point out was that I

816
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:39,510
completely fucking forgot that
we now have a second show.

817
00:49:39,550 --> 00:49:43,030
So if you're listening, if
you're listening still here at

818
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:45,830
the end of this episode,
probably should have said this

819
00:49:45,830 --> 00:49:48,190
at the beginning.
We'll we'll get better at this

820
00:49:48,190 --> 00:49:50,910
with time.
But we started a new show, a new

821
00:49:50,910 --> 00:49:54,550
podcast and it's a companion
show to the Infinite Rabbit

822
00:49:54,550 --> 00:49:58,060
Hole.
So while I was kind of doing

823
00:49:58,060 --> 00:50:01,220
things for my or, I was kind of
doing this for The Infinite

824
00:50:01,220 --> 00:50:05,660
Rabbit Hole by myself, I was
doing these documentary series,

825
00:50:05,660 --> 00:50:09,380
which is just me with a whole
bunch of fancy music behind me

826
00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:14,860
and and cool drawn out
theatrics, but, you know, not

827
00:50:14,860 --> 00:50:18,860
visual.
Audio theatrics.

828
00:50:19,140 --> 00:50:21,980
Yeah, audio theatrics.
And some people reached out and

829
00:50:21,980 --> 00:50:23,740
they were like, man, I really
liked us.

830
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:27,110
And some people reached out and
it's like, you know, it's cool,

831
00:50:27,630 --> 00:50:30,390
but everyone's doing this.
That's not the infinite rapper.

832
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:33,950
I was like, yeah, you're right,
it's not.

833
00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:39,390
And I I put a lot of time and
effort into my research.

834
00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:43,110
And I mean, it's it's an
obsession to me with this stuff.

835
00:50:43,590 --> 00:50:47,710
And I want to be able to put out
some stuff that isn't

836
00:50:47,710 --> 00:50:51,750
necessarily looked at as a
comedy show because believe it

837
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:57,080
or not, Spotify, Spotify says
for comedy, That's cool, That's

838
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,080
cool.
I'm, I'm down with that, right?

839
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,320
But I also want to be known
That, or I also want it to be

840
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,840
known that I can be serious too
and I can put out some really

841
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,440
good quality stuff.
So every episode do you see here

842
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,880
on The Infinite Rabbit Hole
where we do one of these old

843
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,080
school documentary style
episodes where we chat about

844
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,960
things in between just
information vomit?

845
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:25,470
Well, if you want an episode
that is nothing but information

846
00:51:25,470 --> 00:51:28,190
vomit, head on over to the Docks
by Infinite Rabbit Hole.

847
00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:30,870
Now we don't have a lot up
there.

848
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:32,750
There is.
By the time this comes out,

849
00:51:32,750 --> 00:51:38,270
we'll be a few episodes in.
If you like the the new

850
00:51:38,590 --> 00:51:42,950
documentary style episodes where
it's just somebody reading off

851
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:45,950
the information for you, you
don't have time for an hour's

852
00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:49,070
worth of bullshit and you don't
want to hear us sit there and

853
00:51:49,070 --> 00:51:50,590
talk about things.
Or Bigfoot.

854
00:51:50,590 --> 00:51:53,270
You want to just be strictly
about the gorilla, right?

855
00:51:53,870 --> 00:51:55,830
And I'm over to Docs by Infinite
Rabbit Hole.

856
00:51:56,030 --> 00:52:00,990
It's a brand new podcast there,
Will, There will, I'm going to

857
00:52:00,990 --> 00:52:02,910
say this now and I'll keep
putting this out.

858
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:08,990
There will be exclusive episodes
on Docs by Infinite Rabbit Hole.

859
00:52:09,950 --> 00:52:15,110
And basically how this is going
to work is we're taking away the

860
00:52:15,110 --> 00:52:17,870
stresses of doing the Infinite
Rabbit Hole.

861
00:52:18,070 --> 00:52:21,120
Like today, Shake and I were
just like, yeah, we're both

862
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,520
good, let's do it right.
That wasn't necessarily the case

863
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,520
before.
Now it is, hey, if you're not

864
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,040
available, then I'm just going
to go ahead and read it as a

865
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,080
documentary and we'll slap it up
on Docs by Infinite Rabbit Hole.

866
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,520
And there just won't be an
episode on Infinite Rabbit Hole

867
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,120
this week.
As simple as that for the weeks

868
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,970
that we can get together and and
do this right, because let's be

869
00:52:44,970 --> 00:52:47,730
honest, we have lives and
there's other things that are

870
00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:51,650
more important than a podcast,
well then we'll sit down, we'll

871
00:52:51,690 --> 00:52:53,330
we'll bullshit about it.
We'll talk about it.

872
00:52:53,530 --> 00:52:55,370
Still going to do the author
interviews here.

873
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:58,690
We're still going to talk to
researchers and and have guests

874
00:52:58,690 --> 00:53:00,690
and everything here on the
Infinite Rabbit hole.

875
00:53:00,970 --> 00:53:04,010
But if you want something that's
a little bit more refined,

876
00:53:04,010 --> 00:53:07,690
something that's a little bit
more professional, little bit,

877
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:11,610
you know, more strictly
informational driven and not

878
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:15,860
necessarily opinion driven as we
do here when we're chatting

879
00:53:15,860 --> 00:53:19,580
about things, head on over to
Docs by Infinite Rabbit Hole.

880
00:53:19,820 --> 00:53:21,940
That's for you.
That's for you.

881
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:25,180
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.

882
00:53:25,820 --> 00:53:28,620
So that's it.
The first episode of The Cryptic

883
00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:31,700
Case Files.
I left a ton out so it didn't

884
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:34,420
turn into a gorilla documentary
as I always already said.

885
00:53:35,180 --> 00:53:38,420
But if you liked this episode,
please consider giving us a 5

886
00:53:38,420 --> 00:53:41,110
star review.
I have plenty of these on my

887
00:53:41,110 --> 00:53:43,950
list, but if you'd like me to
add another, hit us up on our

888
00:53:43,950 --> 00:53:45,350
Infinite Rabbit Hole Facebook
group.

889
00:53:45,830 --> 00:53:48,150
Thank you for listening,
traveler, And we'll see you next

890
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:50,630
time in the next fork of the
Infinite Rabbit Hole.

891
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:57,710
Bye, bye everybody.
I would like to thank you once

892
00:53:57,710 --> 00:54:00,870
again for tuning into the
Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.

893
00:54:01,350 --> 00:54:03,710
Please make sure to give us a
follow and one of those

894
00:54:03,710 --> 00:54:07,750
beautiful five star ratings on
your podcast player of choice.

895
00:54:08,660 --> 00:54:11,460
If you would like to join the
conversation and stay up to date

896
00:54:11,460 --> 00:54:15,060
on all things infinite rabbit
hole, head on over to Facebook

897
00:54:15,060 --> 00:54:17,380
and search for the Infinite
Rabbit Hole Facebook group.

898
00:54:18,340 --> 00:54:20,180
You all know it's us when you
see the logo.

899
00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:23,540
If you would like to help
contribute to the cause, there

900
00:54:23,540 --> 00:54:27,300
are a few ways to do so.
First, head on over to anchor

901
00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:31,070
dot FM forward slash infinite
Rabbit hole and click on the

902
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:35,110
subscribe button where for $5 a
month you'll get access to all

903
00:54:35,110 --> 00:54:38,190
the old episodes that will never
see the free spotlight ever

904
00:54:38,190 --> 00:54:40,870
again.
It's horrible stuff, but if

905
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:42,990
you're into that kind of thing
and go check that.

906
00:54:44,070 --> 00:54:47,350
Second, head on over to
infiniterabbithole.com and click

907
00:54:47,350 --> 00:54:51,030
on the IRH Merch Shop tab and
grab yourself a sweet Tshirt

908
00:54:51,110 --> 00:54:54,830
sticker or whatever else you see
that you wouldn't mind owning.

909
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:59,870
Until next time travelers, I'm
Jeremy and I'll see you.

910
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:03,380
But the next fork in the path of
the infinite rabbit hole?

911
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,240
Reality for everyone else.