Spontaneous Human Combustion, Ghost Ship, & Croatoa. For the Fans 1 SPECIAL

0:00 Hey, guys, Jake here. So I know you're probably expecting Gateway part 2 but what had happened was Jeremy up and got covid. So, instead, please enjoy our first for the fans episode. This episode, we talk about things such as spontaneous, human combustion among others, this episode was actually released in November 20, November 20th 2020, which means that this episode is two years old today or soon to be in any case. Thank you so much for understanding.

0:42 It wasn't in our plans to postpone, but unfortunately, life happens for podcasters to, but we'll see you next time down the next path of the infinite Rabbit Hole. Thanks. Welcome back to infinite Rabbit Hole everybody today, we got Wes and Jake and myself the whole Crews here. For the first time together, a good to be back. The finally be on here with Jake. I know. I'm curious how this is gonna go, maybe we'll fight, I don't know. I don't know.

1:26 She doesn't play well with others. I'm always up for a fight, my saying, I win. I'll fight anybody. So, today we're going to be doing the fan appreciation episode. I've been holding this off for quite a while but that's okay. We got to it, right? Yeah. Finally, we don't have a lot of content today because we're a new podcast. We don't have very many fans or at least very many fans that are speaking out and telling us what they want us to talk about or ask those questions but we did get some pretty good recommendations to talk about today and we picked one recommendation from each person that commented a lot of those recommendations were so good.

2:09 Good that we're actually going to turn them into full episodes. We're going to keep those a surprise will will let them come out whenever we get to those episodes. But before we get into those, we do have a question. Wes, it was given towards our episode on parallel, universes, and multi multiple Dimensions. So, I'm going to ask this question. You get your opinion on it. Okay, hit me. This comes from Carlos, Carlos is also a Navy vet. I got to talk to him a little bit on one of the podcast Facebook pages. Really nice guy, also has a podcast himself. Carlos was asking, do you believe that? Maybe when we die our Consciousness somehow, joins or blends, Into the parallel universes of ourselves.

2:55 Whew, it's a good question. I don't know if there are parallel universes and multiple Dimensions with other versions of ourselves and them maybe that would help account for. Sometimes we have these random memories of things that not necessarily are full-on Mandela effect level things. But something with just ourselves, I don't know. That's a good question. I never really thought about it be honest. So I was thinking about the answer to this question, too. I'm not sure if I necessarily buy into the idea of our Consciousness slipping into a different reality of ourselves, but there is that whole concept of deja vu, which is a very strange occurrence.

3:43 It's a personal thing. Yeah. And it could easily be explained as you're just having this false memory of something that happened before. Or but, I mean, just like everybody else in the world, I've had cases of deja, vu. And I'm like, I predict what is going to happen next? Uh-huh. You have a, you have a good like 5 to 10 seconds where you're like, hmm I know this, I know what's coming next and then it happens and you're like, wow, that's weird. So maybe not when we die but at some point in our lives, maybe our Consciousness does jump from Universe to universe or from ourselves to another self it A very interesting question that would be a very interesting way to go.

4:26 I've also heard a theory, I can't remember the name of the theory. I think it's something like The NeverEnding Theory where you never die from your point of view, until your body literally gives up your natural death. So, like if you get into a car accident or what not, you just keep going. It's basically a branch where you can timeline Branch. Yeah, timeline Branch. Where You basically go on into a new universe, where your Consciousness keeps going and you never got into that car accident. And then there's a universe where you died and everyone Mourns you. But in your own personal point of view you never die until your natural death. That one's a little hard to wrap my mind around. I agree, I agree.

5:12 It's definitely a far out there. One, not saying, I believe in it, but it I think it kind of ties into what he might be talking about. But to go back to that first part for that to be something that could actually happens that would imply that there are other versions of ourselves that are ahead of say, where I'm at now, or maybe I'm a head of one of my other versions of myself in another parallel universe, right, right. You know, I'm say two levels ahead of this other version of myself and then the version of me that is ahead. Happens, we die or whatever. And then those memories go to my other body in a parallel universe. And that's how they know because it wouldn't make sense if we're all exactly the same age but just in a different place in life.

6:06 You know. It's a but that would be that'd be hard to, I don't know. That's For that to actually work. I don't know talking about different dimensions and and timelines and parallel, universes and stuff. There's a lot that goes into it and it can get very complicated very quickly. Yeah, I'd like to say that, my personal opinion is that. I don't believe that, that happens. Yeah, I know you guys completely lost me with that whole conversation. I was just listening. I'm just like, all right, being out for several weeks and hearing the like the Mandela effect episode. Trying to wrap my head around. The idea of a Multiverse, I can't get behind any of that stuff.

6:50 Som, like our Consciousness joins with another consciousness of ourselves in a different dimension and stuff. That sounds way too far-fetched for me. I can say, however, when it comes to say, deja vu, this one time back when I was man, I must have been 22 or so. Yeah, I had a dream where Thing that happened that day was what happened in my dream to a tee. It was one of the weirdest things I've ever been through. Where was just like that movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray. Like you relived the day in your dream, are you 300 a day? I had a dream about the day that was coming up where everyone I talk to during the day.

7:36 Went during the actual day said the exact same things, exact same conversations. The day played out the exact same way as the dream that I had the night prior, it was one of the craziest weirdest things. Now, you could say that it was two realities intersecting on that time, say, like me and another version of me doing totally different things. But at some point, the intersection happened and that's what that was. But again, I don't prescribe to the idea that there is a Multiverse or anything like that. Seems sounds Way too, far-fetched for me. But, who knows?

8:16 I mean another thing that could explain that is so when we sleep our brain is subconscious is like it's working on solving problems or it's just it's constantly going, right? Like a brain is never completely like not active, that's always doing something and even when we're awake, it's constantly doing other things. Other than, you know, focusing on whatever were doing in that moment, it's subconsciously working. Out problems, or if your, if you were thinking about something earlier, it's thinking about that and maybe some point prior to that night, you were thinking about the next day, right? And then you go to sleep and your brains just like, oh, well you he's probably going to do this and that he's probably gonna end up talking to this person of that. But this is all like subconscious, right, right? We don't even fully understand why we dream, right? We think it's a way of our brain working out stuff, but maybe that particular night, night, what your brain was working on, subconsciously happen to line up with what actually happened, the next day, Could also be that I was just having false memories that when I did interact with the same people because it was maybe it was routine to interact with them at certain times and when they were saying things I was having a false memory of my dream and it was overlaying and it was like oh this is exactly like my dream in reality was just that I had an interaction with that person.

9:39 It's also a possibility. Yeah the dream was maybe just a more General version of what actually the next day and you're just like your mind is automatically put the two together. All right, it's strange to brain is insane. Yeah, he'll most definitely is what does it do you remember a particular circumstance or particular event that day, that that usually doesn't happen where your brain couldn't have predicted it? No, it was mostly just who I was interacting with was the people that were in my shop but it was it was the order of it. Hmm. It was that, this interaction happened with this person and then that person Person. And that person, it was the exact same way that the the Dreamland out. I can't remember if it was circumstances that lined up correctly as well.

10:28 Like, we're going to work on this aircraft first and that aircraft or do this job than that job. I don't think it was that specific but it was more so the people in the conversations so it could have been just a routine of hey, good morning, you know, talking to this person, talking to Jon Snow over here and then Stevens over there and All those different things and that's just the routine that I have. And that's the way my brain decided to lay everything out because of the routine of it. And then the conversation we had having that false memory me like, oh, that's what we talked about in my dream. I don't know for sure because I think that even for myself, I have more lucid dreams than I have anything but even the S upon waking up everything super clear within five minutes.

11:12 I forgotten most of it. Hmm. It was the craziest thing ever. And then I want to tell my wife later and I tell her Like I had this dream about cows, I think like it's just you know it's just it's not all there any more like a distant memory so I hate. I don't know man. Yeah, have some wild dream. Sometimes, you know, I have dreams about this podcast, you know, some ideas about doing an intro or whatever. And then it's like, when people make, like, back when I used to drink it's like I have this great crazy idea when I'm drunk and then the next day I'm just reading. My notes was like what?

11:55 We've all done that, right, right Seinfeld episode. I absolutely love that show and I always try to get my wife to watch it, but there's an episode where Jerry Seinfeld. He always leaves a notepad and a pen next to his bed on his nightstand, just in case he wakes up and he's like great idea for like a joke or whatever, right? Because he's coming right? And one night, he wakes up and you write something down but because he's like, you know, half awake. It's all like gibberish looking whatever. So the next morning he wakes up and he's just like looking at it. Like the hell is this like what and he's going around to all the all his friends? Like you know what this is like he's trying to figure out because in his mind he's thinking this is just great joke. They could only decipher what he wrote, you know while half asleep and then you know later on he figures it out and he's like, this is a funny. What Riley exactly that episode?

12:42 That's it. What show was that Seinfeld? How do you spell? It was a funny, never watch sign. I'm just kidding. I just can't let you never watch friends or Fraser either. No, no Seinfeld is way better than 0, of course, in Franklin's, those on Comedy Central, I'm gonna smack you right in the face. I'm gonna fight you on text or listeners. Here is never seen Star Wars and he likes to ask us. Oh. Is that from Star Trek? Then we post something like for it. Talk about anything related to Star Wars. And now, here he is trying to make fun of us for Seinfeld, man.

13:24 I say that's a everybody. Anybody I know that's a Star Wars fan. I'll be like, oh yeah. Is that from Star Trek? I bet it makes me one sane. Oh man. Thank you insane. My buddy. Might the guy we interviewed about the Rougarou. Yeah, I thought he was gonna shoot me one day. Anyways, man, that's wild Carlos, I hope that That we answered your question there. Again this is just our opinion. If anybody else is listening to this wants to comment in, on their opinion, will be things on the posted on our Facebook Twitter, Instagram about this episode. Please feel free to leave your comments real quick before we get going.

14:07 I contacted a few my friends and I said hey I know you guys have businesses is there? Do you guys want us to promote your business on the podcast? We're doing a fan appreciation episode. And one of them came through her name is Ashley. She works with me. She's active duty Navy and she makes candles, she does these awesome Candles there, soy wax? I don't know what that is, but I can tell you right now that they smell fantastic. A lot of the titles are the names of these these candles that she does stems from her service in the Navy. Like we have one here. That's called boat. Boo. Nice.

14:47 Isn't that awesome? Does it smell like bo boo. It does not smell like bo boo. I hope not smells like the trash room. So, do either of you guys different where they melt down Plastics, do either you guys, Guys want to explain to anybody. That's not in the Navy. What about Boo is that's all and there. It's a female companion or a male companion, that someone might make well deployed for an extended period of time that is separate from their actual spouse. That's a very PG rated. That's right.

15:30 Hence, the name boat. Boo. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say I never condone that. I also do not condone she's through, I can't tell you what scent it is. I mean, obviously it's bhopu but but it's Lou. What's it smell? Like, I don't know. It's fresh though, whatever. Like a Fresh Linen. Kind of smell. Yeah, but it's also got, it's not just like, it's not like, you just opened a tub of laundry detergent. It's it's actually smells really good. Jake. This is the one you're getting, by the way. Aw, sweet. Yeah, you're getting boat. Boo man. Does it like, does it work itself out of that smell? And then eventually it smells like, I don't want like two weeks of you.

16:17 Imagine if she was able to smell really good and it really rancid as you can down like those candles that smell like a dirty fart and and they start off smiling like really good like Pine and then Minutes in, they start smelling like a nasty, wet fart. Oh, man, Perfect. All right. After this, there's your recommendation as, for the sink, for the candles, by the way. Thank you. I appreciate it. We're talking trash about booze but for the West, you're going to get Slutty. Pumpkin Spice. I'll smell it. It smells like pumpkin spice. Yeah, yep. That's that's about right. It smells really good though. So that's what you're going to get. And the other one is also a Navy themed sent. It's called Waffle Stomp.

17:08 Do we have to explain what a waffle? Something every single toilet is backed up all at once and you gotta go, you know, where else but the shower. So as Jake was saying, I also don't believe it. Absolutely not, it's how you break all your showers, some stories about that nasty. So as Jake was trying to explain that on the ship, if all the toilets are clogged up which happens it happens, it is fairly often and you got a pope you you could do it in the shower and stomp it down the drain which is shaped like a waffle. I can't believe we're talking about this. Oh my God but we all know what it is. So I mean yeah yeah yeah it's the You know, I apologize for any way it takes offense to that, but that is, that's what waffle some is.

18:13 And I can tell you that, it doesn't smell like that. It just smells like waffles. All right. All right. Move along. Move Along. Yeah, we're getting off track here. Real quick, her website is to people and wax the n as in Nancy. So, that's two people and wax.com, you can visit her, she is an active duty sailor. She makes a really good product. The stuff smells amazing. The waffle stop flavor that I have is actually wax. Melts flavor. Yeah, the I don't know what else to say the sense meant for Waffle stump is sent their wax melts and I put them right in my son. See thing I'm going to be sending you each one of these two cool. All right. So, I don't know if you guys have wax melts but you have wax. All right.

18:58 I'll take it. Waxed my surfboard with it. It's all right. Yeah, cool. And that's that's that for that because I didn't get anybody else that wanted to advertise. I said, free advertisement, and nobody took it. So, all right. Next time, if anybody's listening to this episode and they have something that they want to advertise, we're doing our next fan appreciation episode, let me know what Be glad to put your stuff out there for free. It's free, it's fan appreciation. We're appreciating you that basically gets us through questions and advertising. Awesome. Now we're on to the meat, you ready?

19:38 Hey, alright. So we had we had three people comments with questions, Carlos, Grayson and Nick Nick. Unfortunately. We are not going to do any of your questions because we are actually going to make those into full episodes. So we do really appreciate your questions but we're just not going to touch on them today. You will hear us talk about them in length just not today. Alright, let's start off with Carlos. Carlos was the guy that asked the question about the Consciousness slipping into another Universe after you pass away? Carlos was asking us if we would like to talk about spontaneous human combustion.

20:19 So it's not as crazy of a story, as you would think it was. If you didn't do any research on it so it looks like most of the studies on that happened in the 80s, the stories about it, started in the Victorian era and it was believed that people that spontaneously combusted were alcoholics and that wasn't too far from the truth. Because usually the people that That were affected by this. A lot of them were alcoholics either. They were inebriated to the point of not being able to function and save themselves from burning up or they were elderly.

21:03 They were people that were obese somehow, you know, ours in some way they were close to death anyway. So maybe they died in their sleep or they took sleeping pills and were unconscious or whatever thing was So I did some research into it and if you don't know, spontaneous, human combustion is a concept of the combustion of a living. Or recently deceased human body without an apparent, external source of ignition, potential causes and mechanisms, including victim, behaviour and habits alcohol consumption and proximity to potential sources of ignition, as well as the behavior of fires. That consume melted fats, There's a study done in 1984 by science investigator Joe Nickell and forensic analysis, John Fisher, and these are the six categories that they came up with of the victims of spontaneous human combustion. They said the victims are chronic alcoholics. They're usually elderly.

22:06 Females, the body has not burned spontaneously but some lighted substance has come into contact with it. The hands and feet. Usually fall off. The fire has caused very little damage to Double things in contact with the body and the combustion of the body has left some residue of greasy fetid ashes in a very offensive odor. So what they concluded was that the case has had a source of ignition, that wasn't apparent right away. But the ignition Source was close to the body say, like a candle, a lamp, a cigarette, a fireplace whatever it was and then the bodies were usually found on things like mattresses chairs and blankets Etc. And those were burning up but not the area surrounding it due to the wicking effect.

22:54 I pulled a little thing real quick. I'm going to read it and this explains the wick effect, the wick effect, hypothesis suggests that, a small external flame Source such as a burning cigarette. Charles the clothing of the victim at a location, splitting the skin and releasing fat which is in turn absorbed into the burnt clothing acting as a wick, the combustion can You. As long as the fuel is available, this hypothesis has been successfully tested in pig tissue and is consistent with evidence recovered. From cases of human combustion, the human body typically has enough, stored, energy, and fat and other chemical stores to fully combust the body, even lean people have several pounds of fat in their tissue.

23:37 This fat once heated by burning clothing, Wicks into the cloth, such as candle wax and basically, it just burns away as long as that fuel sources there. They said it's something to do like a, if you have a campfire, you can sit reasonably close to a campfire, but you won't necessarily catch on fire unless there's a fuel source on you. So, that's why say, the mattress was all burned up because it was wikked from the fat of the body, but not the rooms around it. So when people were coming up on these crime scenes or whatever they were, just assuming that this person just burst into flames, where the reality of situation is say, This person was obese or they were an alcoholic or they're old. And they had a heart attack and I died. Maybe they're smoking a cigarette, they dropped it on their clothes, the smoldering.

24:27 Let their clothes on fire and then it just set their bodies on fire. The fats mixed in with whatever they're sitting on or laying on and then that burned up as well. But once all that fat Source the ignition fuel source was gone, maybe the fire wasn't as hot or it didn't spread and it just smoldered out and then that was it. And then The hands and the feet are all that's left. It was it was really interesting to research this but it was really a letdown because I was really hoping they're going to say yeah people just blow up yeah that's what it is. And that's honestly I saw a quote from a science writer from 1987 that said exactly the opposite of that, his name's Benjamin Radford, he's a science writer and Deputy editor of the Science magazine and skeptical Inquirer.

25:15 This is from 1987 and he's quoted as saying, If spontaneous human combustion is a real phenomenon and not the result of an elderly or infirm person, being too close to a flame Source, why doesn't it happen more often? There are five billion people in the world and yet we don't see reports of people bursting into flames while walking down the street pretending football, games or sipping, a cup of coffee at the local Starbucks. So the reality of the situation is for spontaneous, human combustion. Is that even though it looked at the time, more like, the people were just erupting in the flames. Lie. There is more, so a logical and scientific explanation for it. So I was kind of let down by this because I have lived up until this point believing that that's just something that happens.

26:00 The original thing that I saw was it was methane-gas buildup in your guts and then people just bursting into flames and this was something that could happen to anybody at any time. And it's only a matter of time before it might happen to you that sort of thing. But it turns out that it's more along the lines of people die. And then if back in the Victorian era there, their lamp falls on them or whatever say they fall against it and then it falls on them and then sets them on fire and then it's smolders out and then people rolling up on that and her being like, Oh my gosh. She spontaneously combusted. Here's this alcohol bottle in this person blew up. Yeah, so it's an interesting research topic. It was interesting to get into it. But like I said, kind of a letdown. I remember, growing up my introduction to spontaneous human combustion was in one of those Incubus songs camera exactly which one it was, but they refer to spontaneous human combustion.

27:01 I looked it up, you know, which one I'm talking about, right? Yeah, I can't think of the name of the song but I guess I can hear it in my head. Yeah, it'll come. So I looked it up and I was kind of young and I actually kind of the same thing as you Jake. I just kind of thought that was a thing, right? That, you know, I was going to be dealing with this more often than I did in my life quicksand. Yeah. I like quickly. Literally, we just think of it. And yeah, I mean, it's kind of weird because I I It's a very long time, not thinking of spontaneous human combustion in my life. And the only time I really thought about it, I guess, was when that song would come on. That's that. I mean, it makes perfect sense. The the science and behind it, the burning fat, and the bodies and the waking of the sheets and stuff. Yeah, I buy it 100%.

27:50 It makes her a lot more sense, definitely. I'm going to go ahead and continue living the rest of my life. Like I didn't do this research and just believing that people explode. It's more fun, it's honestly a lot more fun than reality. So I'm going to do that. You guys can take it or leave it but awesome debug. Now something to scare my kids with you better go to sleep or else you'll miss the bus. Means she crazy or explode seen it before, you know what stops you from exploding, broccoli, broccoli and milk.

28:32 That's right. It's going to say, be no. All right, moving on. So the next topic comes from Grayson. Actually the next two topics come from Grayson, Grayson wants us to talk about the Mary Celeste, Ghost Ship you guys. Ever heard of that? No, I have, but I may be mistaking, it with another ship that I've heard about, but was it something or ship that was found near the Bermuda Triangle? Or is that not it? I think it's actually your Portugal. Oh well then I, okay, I'm complete even close. Yeah yeah disregard but it's on the Earth, right?

29:13 So yeah, of course our clothes some kind of clothes there. Yeah. Anyways, The Story Goes Like This, the ship the Mary Celeste on December, 4th 1872 was discovered deserted and a float off the coast of the Azores islands off. Portugal, the Canadian Brigantine ship, degrazia discovered the ship with, absolutely nobody on it. And one of the ships sails half Mass, the other one was at full Mass, Pain coming up to the ship, the captain of the gratia ordered. His crew to board the Mary Celeste and found that there was not a single person on the ship and everything was exactly how it would be. If people were living, the clothes were all folded up. Nicely.

30:08 Everything was tucked away, neat. The decks were nice and neat. Nothing was mangled or anything. So there was no evidence of pirates or anybody else coming on board, the ship and taking the crew hostage, there was no signs of distress. Was this the was this the ship where they found the Captain's Log and ahead of entry from that day or from like the previous day? It did it wasn't from that day. The last log was actually 10 days prior, okay? And the coordinates were actually about 10 miles away from where it was found. So it wasn't very far so they don't isn't far at all.

30:51 Yeah, so the crew disappeared somewhere between 10 days to a couple hours before the ship was discovered by, dagradi has crew. There's a lot of different theories here, you know, theories extend anywhere from Foul Play Mutiny of the crew, piracy attempt to insurance fraud alcohol fumes from the cargo because they were shipping alcohol inebriation from the crew. Natural disasters such as earthquakes or waterspouts. Even the the woo of attack from a giant squid and even paranormal activities. So it's off the coast of Portugal. Yes, the Azores Island. So I'm going to go ahead and say that they pulled into Port. They found out that the Portuguese people have a pretty sweet deal and they just said yeah, leave the ship and it just floated off how far off Coast was it found though? I'm not sure actually I didn't see anything about that. Just says off the coast of the Azores Islands. It doesn't, I wasn't able to come up with an exact distance. But I gotta tell you, I said, Captain's Log. The first thing I thought of was that the Borg attacked? I don't know.

32:07 Oh my gosh. I am not even like a big Star Trek fan, but I know what that is and the Borg. That's right. Oh my gosh. Jeremy's got some homework ahead of them. I mean it is a strange thing. You would think that if this was done by Pirates or people that were taking the crew hostage that the at least the alcohol would be gone. Yeah. But every piece of cargo was accounted for. There was a log in the ship that stated what was actually in the cargo. Everything was their beds were made clothes were folded. I want to say that I even read something about where a card game was left on the table. The crew consisted of the captain, his wife, his daughter and seven crew members.

32:52 So there's a, there's a crew of 10 total and they all just disappeared. Now, one little piece of evidence that could tell you maybe what happened was that the Lifeboat was no longer there. So you know the Lifeboat was either taken or use to get off the ship. But the question is, why did they leave this ship? That's more my question that. Okay, so now this is jogging. Marie. I remember reading about this when I was in like middle school because I was all until this weird stuff. Think one of the theories was may possibly the crew thought that the cargo they're carrying presented a hazard of some sort. So they all got onto the Lifeboat and moved away from the ship just in case they possibly thought it could explode or something like that.

33:37 Hmm. And then they wasn't able to get back to the ship and that's why it was found with basically everything as if they had just disappeared. When possibly, it was just as simple as. Is that? Yeah something like that makes a lot of sense you know they got off the ship because they smell fumes or something coming off from the alcohol and I don't know some something they had combust with the alcohol fumes. They got off, maybe in some bad weather and the Lifeboat ended up going astray and they never found their way back to the ship. That's what it sounds like the crew was never heard from again and the the Marie Celeste ended up getting sold at Poor in Gibraltar mmm and ended up living. I think another 8 to 10 years until the new captain ended up crashing it into an island for insurance fraud. Hello God.

34:29 Yeah, dead serious. So that's funny. Nobody wanted that shit, but that's it. Now, that story. I mean, it was an interesting. I enjoyed reading about it. I found many many sources on the topic. So it wasn't very hard to research, but while I was Doing some research on there. I found some extremely interesting Ghost Ship stories. Hmm, maybe we'll have to do a full story on ghost ships, one time because that happy fun that there is some really good stuff out there. Some really head-scratching stuff. Absolutely. Now don't go ship hunting one time I was living in the barracks and I had some friends from work show up at literally like midnight and said, hey, we're gonna go drive three hours to try to find Ghost Ship. You want to come I was like, okay, and he drove three hours. So like Southern Virginia somewhere to find a ghost ship. You find it?

35:22 We did not. Maybe it really is a ghost ship. Yeah. This was there. You see you see all that water moving. It's displaced. That's why it's a ghost ship. That's right. You can see ya. So yeah. Maybe we did see the Ghost Ship. I don't know. But we like, we could have. We could have walked right out the barracks for a ghost ship. That's right. Now it's supposed to be Some super cool. Like, green looking thing, as a full moon, it was supposed to be the date. Was all right. And everything. And the, I don't know, but yeah, didn't see anything. So I guess we could say, we did see something. Thank you, Wes. I was thinking this whole time, it was waste time, but nope, I saw myself a ghost ship.

36:04 One time. Hey, tell the story. That's right. All right, all right. Moving on to our last subject to the night. This one comes from Grayson as well. And This is going to lead us in this and the topic is Croatoan it topic. Yes. Soaked Rotorua is something that is attached to the Roanoke colony, which was supposed to be England's first colony in North America and then the new world. Well, before, Jamestown, in Virginia, was founded. So England tried to found this Colony on three separate Expeditions.

36:45 So, there is initial one where They came over just like checked it out and like, all this seems like a great place, there's lots of wildlife, it's right on the shore so they can fish or whatever. There's source of fresh water nearby. So then they went back to England and told the queen or whatever about it and then decide. Okay. We're going to attempt to settle a colony here. So the first attempt they came over and there was roughly a hundred and eight of them. This was in 1585 they landed set up their initial settlement and whatnot and not too long after that they had contact from the local Native Americans.

37:27 The local tribe was the Seco tan. I'm probably pronouncing that wrong, forgive me, if I am, and they had a good relationship at first, but then ended up becoming In due to colonies, over-reliance on the local tribes food, the tribal leader at the time. I'm not even going to try to attempt to say his name. He was a fan of the settlers. He saw no ish like, no problem with having a relationship with them where they could, you know, help each other out that relationship soon began to sour after the colonies over-reliance on them. And then things got hostile. Oh, and that of initial settlement had to go back to England because it was about to be war or not really a war, but there's going to be conflict between the two. So then they came back and I think it was 1587 and they kind of seem like they came over not quite as prepared as they was the first time.

38:30 So they still had mixed relations with the local Native American tribe, but they were each kind of like sticking to themselves. Not bothering the other. So this second colony was led by a man named John White. This is the colony that became known as The Lost Colony because John White, he end up having to go back to England at some point. Because the second colony, they wasn't able to get up on their feet. They're running low on supplies, so he's like, all right, I'm going to go. Act England to get more supplies and so he left. Well by the time he got back to England, the anglo-spanish war had started and this delayed his return, back to this Colony, it delayed him by two years until in 1590 upon his arrival. Coming back.

39:18 He found that settlement had been fortified but also abandoned. And then the word Croatoan was found carved into a post, for one of the walls of the settlement, which this man John Dwight interpreted it to mean the colonists had relocated to Croatoan Island, which is a Barrier Island kind of off the coast of where they had set up this Colony. But before he could follow this lead rough seas and a loss, anchor Force, the rescue mission to return to England. So, from other sources that I read, he on two separate attempts attempted to go out to this island, to see, if this is where they moved to, for whatever reason. But on those two attempts, he encountered bad weather storms, and And because this wasn't his boat. He basically charted this from someone else, they had to turn back and then he wasn't able to try third time because that boat had to go do its own thing.

40:10 All the information I was able to gather it's almost like he had no choice but to give up wasn't necessarily his choice but that's all he could do at that point. So later on, you know, there's still people that are actively preserving and searching the site of the initial colony. They found some interesting things that shines a light on where what happened to the colonists, possibly, so when John White left, the colony initially to get supplies relations with the local indigenous population was strained, but that's not to say that it continued. So there was a lot of people that believe that local Native American tribe ended up attacking the settlement and killing all the colonists. But there has been no evidence to show that there's like a mass grave or anything like that.

40:54 It haven't found Like any remains whatsoever of the colonists. So, that's pretty much been proven to not have happened mostly but there's there's a lot of speculation about it still. There's so many different wild theories about it. Another theory is that the colonists were unable to survive without all the supplies that they needed and because of John White's delay and coming back because of the anglo-spanish war. They end up just dying either starvation or from disease. Is that their bodies wasn't ready for because, you know, they came from England and here in North America. Maybe there's different forms of bacteria and viruses and stuff that they've never encountered. So their, immune system wasn't able to handle it and they end up dying.

41:40 But I think the most popular theory that I found was that what remained of the colonists, the ones that survived ended up separating, two small groups and moving Inland, because they found a map that have like a star symbol on it. You know, a lot of people think that this was like a four or something, like they knew they wouldn't be able to survive right on the coast. So they move further. Inland hoping that the luck would be better. Maybe set up a smaller Colony or settlement further Inland. Because according to this map, where the star symbol was at. It's roughly 50 miles Inland from the coast, so most people believe that they end up splitting up in smaller groups moving Inland, maybe to this location where, you know, the symbol was on this map that they found.

42:25 But they also believe that it's possible that what remained the colonists ended up integrating with the local tribes and living out the rest of their time there because they found some pottery that matches the style of pottery. I guess that England produced at the time, but they're not able to carbon data or carbon dating isn't accurate enough to determine the actual date. So they can't say oh this is something they brought with them from England or is something they made their while there. In North America. I got a couple of wild theories. Yeah I mean there's tons of them and it is strange because I mean in first place. Why would they carve Croatoan on a post?

43:09 I don't know. Maybe they thought that was. The only thing that would survive the length of time it would take for John White and the come back. I don't know. What do you got? So, here's what I'm thinking. All right, I get it. I get the whole neighborly relationship falling apart. So these guys move in next to you, right? First, very simply, they want to borrow sugar all the time, then it's an extension cord that they won't return and then they break your Myers off, right? So then there's all out War because they're unprepared, they don't have enough supplies. You and your family, just surround their house, and then just start starving them out. Once they finally give up, you take them as slaves and you take them to a different location, maybe the Native Americans had the name.

43:55 Croatoan, Owen was a location that they had already named. You know, we have our cities and our towns that we named, whatever that doesn't necessarily mean that the people that already live here, know these locations by what we call them. They might know the locations based off what they call them. So, they're being taken to an area that these Native Americans are saying is Croatoan. They scribe that on there. Who knows where that is? Because, as far as I'm aware Native Americans, yes, they had their whole area that they lived in, but they would move. With the food sources. So they would travel with the deer, migrating the the elk, the whatever migrating. So they're traveling with the food sources, going to England, and back is not what we think where we get on a ship.

44:39 And we go, we hit up England in a week. They're taking months without a war involved months and months and months. Yeah, so yeah, he's going back for supplies because oh no, we're not going to last the winter. He might be gone the entire winner. Just trying to get back. Yeah. So So them surrounding their heavily fortified Fort. Well, that's great. You got big old fat gnarly walls, where you can do about food. You spent all this time, working on that. So we just surround you, we wait till you're hungry, enough that you just give up. This is where the Native Americans are taking us, scribe this on the thing. And then they ransacked the place and take them all his prisoners or slaves or whatever. If the relationship is tension and then take them away or aliens. One of the two, it's like that.

45:25 You know, that was one of the theories that they thought that maybe the Native American tribe, took them as slaves. But most people believe that that's probably not what happened. At least, the people that are actually attached to the group that studying the remains of the settlement and nothing shown that. That's what they did. Because they also apparently, I guess interviewed relatives of the tribe that are alive today. Okay, cool. So there's a lot of sources that won't take spoken. Word as like fact. But there's a lot of also a lot of people that think that's just as good is finding like actual physical written, things describing, what happened at that time, you know, and the people who are still alive, that were relatives of these tribe members or whatnot, never spoke of anything like that happening.

46:13 So most people that are studying this believe that the tribe ended up taking in in a good way, not necessarily as slaves, okay? So maybe that they were in fact, starving. Then but the relationship was strengthened over time and they end with them. It's so could have been like Hey we're going this place now. Yeah, where we were calling that Croatoan Island. Maybe that's not what the Native Americans meant when they said Croatoan. So they were like, yeah, we're going over here. And it's yeah, it's a big states away where Croatoan came from, like no one's really sure. I mean it's very strange because Croatoan the only thing that the English knew about that was that it's an island off the coast there. But there was nothing that would make sense for them to go out there.

46:59 Yeah. Croatoan could have been a word that the Native Americans used while they were conducting trades and they adopted that word. Yeah. And named a place that, you know, Croatoan like Jake was saying that the Native Americans could have had a place already named Croatoan. And in order to create an outpost for trading, maybe they planned on creating, you know, like a pure system out on the island. Something. Easier to get to and where it's just a quick boat ride to the island and back for us. We know, maybe they're shallow Waters around there and ships can't easily get in. So, creating a trade platform out on the island, is the best thing to do and they named it to Croatoan.

47:41 So that there's one option, but it's kind of comment on what Jake was saying. Could you imagine like, relaxing and in your nicely wood cabin shed that you just built on this brand new land and your wife comes in. And she's like, Like we need milk and you're like, okay, so I go to the store. Well, the stores in England, as I don't care, get some eggs while you're there to you're like damn it you know give me the keys and 12 people to man the ship and whatever. See you in six months. Yeah. And then you get there and they're out of milk and you're like damn it, she's gonna be pissed, right? So you get the bread or you get the eggs and you're like, well you start coming up with these excuses as to why you didn't get milk.

48:25 When you could easily just are they were out so you get there and she's like hey did you get the milk you like man? I forgot and she's like well go back and get it and you're just You know what? Maybe this whole place needs to disappear. Maybe I can strain the relationship with these Native. American people living next to me. No call for them constantly. Yeah, you know, get on a serious note, there's a lot of theories out there and one of them is that they just moved simply Inland. I've heard that theory about the natives, having a place that they call Croatoan and they simply just moved to you know, with them and the or they integrated their populations together and actually I became a tribe themselves. There is some paranormal things where they say that they were abducted by ghosts and taken and went went crazy and they all just went out into the woods or that a disease affected their brains or something than their minds bodies. And they just, they just all went crazy, you know, they left and wander the woods and eventually die from starvation or being frozen to death.

49:34 But I do remember about Roanoke that the Channel. Roanoke colony was built on Barren lands and the lands were not good for crops. So it was initially it was supposed to just be a base at first to establish some sort of civilization but that they would have to eventually move Inland. Now, I don't know if you know how waterfalls were made its kind of going a little left field here. Just kind of explain their situation. The land that's closer to water. It goes for anywhere in the world, but it's mostly loose soil and earth, right? So you have a lot of sand and a lot of gravel and it doesn't make good for crops. But Inland, you know, once you go past What's called the fall line, do you know what a fall line is? No well, it's a, it's a natural point where the land becomes goes from Sand and Gravel.

50:33 To dirt and bedrock and Sand and Gravel is constantly moving it. Vibrates, you know, with every shift in the tectonic plates, or what, not yet, the the land that is on the, the seaside of the fall line eventually gets lower and lower, and lower in any stream or river. That's flowing across the fall line, eventually creates a waterfall. Hmm. So waterfalls, actually, in Virginia, you can make up, nice squiggly line that there. All the waterfalls that go across the fall line and they line up perfectly with the fall line. So the colony occur, Roanoke simply just picked a bad place to be, you know, they were too close to the ocean and they did not have any good soil to grow their crops in and they simply needed to get past the fall line.

51:26 I don't know if they knew that they actually needed to get past the fall line, but I'm assuming that they, at least knew from where they came from overseas. He's that they at least had to go Inland a little bit more to get to more fertile lands. I think they would know about that because, I mean, that's, that's probably something you have to deal with almost anywhere on any Coast, you know, mmm, ordered equivalent of it. I don't know, because the coastlines over there are more cliffie, not all of them. I mean, they're famous for, like, they're Cliffs of Dover and what not really Rocky though. If literally all their Shores were Cliffs, then Then where the ports and whatnot.

52:06 I mean, that's fair either. Way, if I had to put a guess on to it they tried to move Inland. Yeah. Or or they integrated with the Local Natives. I think that's what most people agree on, is that they end up moving Inland. It is a nice spooky story to read about and to ponder every once in a while. But I think it's easily explained. Yeah, maybe they intersected with their own selves in the Multiverse and they were like this, this way is much better. All right, well that pretty much wraps up that segment. I have one other segments very quickly.

52:47 I've been getting a pretty big rise in recommendations for second parts of some of our previous episodes so asking for a second part. Yeah. Hmm. Two episodes actually that people want to hear more about which episodes one of them is sleep paralysis. Oh, no. They want to know more about it. So they want us to take a deep dive into sleep paralysis, and do a black hole episode where we go into more of the science and lore behind it and more about the black figure. Mmm, I've had a lot of people come forward to me and say that they've had experiences with sleep paralysis. And that episode, creeps them out. And there's a lot of people that have came up to me. This said that they no longer sleep on the back on. Back because they don't want to have an episode of sleep per hour and then there's this one, crazy guy at work. This is I sleep on my back overnight. Now I sleep on my back a lot.

53:51 I mean I'm kind of interested to know what that would feel like, I don't do it on purpose for the Press purpose of hoping that I get sleep paralysis, but it is a thought. In my mind, whenever I do lay down my back, it is strange. That's the most comfortable position for me since my body's old, and, Pretty filling in the joints and whatnot, Snap, Crackle, Pop, I am not a back sleeper, I I can't do it. I say, face down in the pillow, separating myself every night. I do get dumber and dumber as the days go by the other episode that I think you guys would be excited to hear about, and I didn't think this was the case. But apparently it is because I've had three people come up to me and Last week alone and then person couple weeks prior to that say they want us to do more missing for 11. Whoa, nice, that'd be fun.

54:49 Yeah, I've actually I've been approached by three people this week. One of them said to me that they like I'm listening to both of them for the second time. I am halfway through the first one and he's like, it's just mind-blowing. That that's some of this stuff is like that. He goes, I had to do my own research. And come to find out that a lot of the stuff you guys are saying, is very true. So he's like, I want to know why I had to show him where he can buy the books where he can watch it on YouTube. He's like you guys have to do more. Another guy would told me, those are his favorite episodes. Awesome. Another girl said that she couldn't she couldn't listen to any more of this.

55:33 So she actually she ended up W listening to the rest of it. But she said that she had the listen to it and B because she has a son herself and you know she has a connection to a lot of those. But you know it is something that people are are wanting to hear more of. So maybe we'll touch on more missing for 11 episodes and season 2. Hmm. Just put that in your in your pocket and we'll pull it out later. Awesome. So basically what I'm getting from this is that our audience is mostly into dark disturbing stuff. So if we keep it on the topic of like demons dead, people will just shoot through all the levels of listenership we want High. I've got a I've got a topic that I've been really wanting to get an episode in but I think I'm going to have to wait till season two because it's going to require us to do a little bit of deep diving into some some studying and stuff. So I'm not going to put it out there right now. I'll talk to both of you guys on the outside. We've talked about it slightly before, but I think that's that's an episode that we really need to maybe bring to the front of the pile because I think Jake's, right? I think people want this dark stuff. They want to be scared.

56:47 Yeah, and this is, this has been good. Thank you to everybody that have hit us up on person in our Facebook as far as episodes go, thank you to Carlos and and Grayson and Nick. For your suggestions Nick, we will certainly be getting to those in our future episodes coming up. We definitely have some really good stuff planned. I'm very excited to be back here with these guys. The move process was crazy. One thing that I wanted to throw out was that while I was driving cross-country? I was filming little 20 minute videos talking about the Cryptids and the strange things in those States and it kind of just having my own little moments of dialogue with Jake. Jake.

57:32 I will be putting those up on YouTube, I just have to edit them. Some misinformation. I threw in there that I was going to just leave them raw, but I figure. I'll just leave a mostly raw but correct, the mistakes. I don't sound like too much of an idiot. I'm excited to put those out. Hopefully, I'll be dropping those here and this coming week, probably on a week-by-week basis, but yeah, good stuff. Glad to be back, glad to have this episode with Wes. It's pretty sweet. Absolutely. It's a lot of fun. Yep so we're recording this on the on the day that we just dropped our first infinite rabbit hole in space episode. It currently we're at 783, listens total on our podcast. So we're going to break 800 here before this episode comes out and I'm excited.

58:19 We're getting to that 1,000 Mark guys. That's a very cool. A lot of. Yes. I mean can we Daddy? Can we do it before our three month birthday? Did we were so stoked for 100 lessons? And I know we were stoked for 10. Oh yeah, I did. I mean, I'm not going to say that. I didn't think that we would get here, but I didn't think we'd get here this fast. Like that's pretty wild. So more dark and disturbing stuff for sure. Yeah. Let's get 10,000 by next week. I mean we The podcast is blown up and we wanted to do this episode as a thank you to the people who have helped this, this podcast grow, this is going to be something that we do regularly.

59:01 We're going to try to get it in once a season. We do want to interact with everybody that supports this podcast. So please, if you have a topic or if you have comments or you have questions, don't hesitate, let us know. Type them down, you can email us at infinite rabbit hole at gmail.com, we're up on all social Platforms, While most social platforms. Now, we're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram find us let us know, send us this stuff. We want to talk about it. We want to make it. So that these fan, appreciation episodes are three hours long, it doesn't matter. Let's talk if you want. You guys want to come on and actually talk to us during a fan appreciation episode? Let me know. I would love to have anybody on that wants to come on and talk about a strange subject with us.

59:46 We do this podcast because we like talking about strange stuff but we really want to interact with you guys and we want you to get everybody involved. Absolutely Other than that. That's it. That's all I have, guys, you guys got anything? No, no, I think it's all been said, except for Welcome Back, Jake. Thank you much. It's good to be back. It's going to be all set up. Yeah, and Wes. It's really good to have you on board to, man, I feel like we've got this podcast complete. Oh, yeah. And we're ready to go full steam ahead and some really awesome stuff. Absolutely, I can't wait. Right. That's it.

1:00:26 Until next time, thank you for joining us on this episode. If you like to comment on this episode you can do so on, facebook.com forward, slash infinite rabbit hole. If you have a story to share with us or would like to be interviewed, you can contact us at infinite rabbit hole at gmail.com. Thank you again and have a great day.