151. Portlock and the Nantiinaq Part 1

0:13 The Kenai Peninsula is a portion of land on the southern shores of the great state of Alaska, separating the Prince William Sound and Cook Inlet. This nearly 150 mile stretch of land provides a haven for those in the fishing industry, and with the Kenai Mountains painting a picturesque backdrop, it is no wonder the area is well known as Alaska's playground. Fishing, oil and tourism provide the majority of the area's funds and employment, but with mountain ranges, lakes for real forests, glaciers, ice fields, marshes, and a rather large coastline, it's easy to claim that there is something for everyone on the Kenai Peninsula, the 15,700 square miles of land host a population of about 58,000 people who call this landmass home. By comparison, that is nearly the same size as the states of New Jersey and Massachusetts.

1:12 Together with only one four hundredth of the population, nearly 4000 square miles of the peninsula is protected by the Kenai Fjord National Forest and the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge. 2 large brown bears, nearly £1000 each, were killed by hunters on the peninsula in 2015 and it's £600 black bear was killed by the local authorities in 2011 after it was spotted roaming the streets of Homer, a town situated 200 miles South of Anchorage. These were just a few examples of an enormous list of accounts going back hundreds of years, and just goes to show that the area easily sustains the needs of large animals. So it's not too hard to believe that an entire fishing town just up and left, leaving the streets, homes and businesses completely empty due to the fear of a savage creature loose in the surrounding forest that hugged the town from three sides.

2:14 The 4th based the water. So there really was nowhere to go when the town was subject to a steady onslaught of vicious attacks in the early mid 1900s, with some resulting in brutal deaths. The creature was huge, come from head to toe and long hair, and walked on two legs. Modern assumptions would match the description of the culprit or culprits to a creature such as a Bigfoot AKA Sasquatch, but when the first man died in 1931 by the hands of the beast, it was best known as the Knock Knock. Today we travel to Port Lock Alaska and welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole. Bro, those are some Big Bear.

3:05 Yeah. Holy, holy. Yeah. Welcome back to the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. I'm your host, Jeremy. It's night. We're going north way N Alaska. We're going to check out a ghost town. Not just any ghost town, though. A ghost town that was made into a ghost town because something in the woods was scaring the shit out of people and killing them before that, Let's go ahead and bring in the other host for the night, Jacob. Hello. Ooh, interesting way of saying my name. Hello. Yeah, you like that. Yeah, sounds so like exotic a little bit. I came up with that like just now. Wow, thanks dude.

3:51 I must mean a lot to you. I appreciate it. You mean a lot like this much? For why are my sound waves so small? Look at those things. Yours are so big and girthy. They look normal to me anyways. Fair enough. Yeah, the the people listening. Can't see that. Anyways, doing all right, man. Yeah, I'm doing all right. I'm dealing with some stress. I'm sitting in a office, so with moving boxes. My microphone boom arm is attached to my chair because I don't have a desk anymore because we've been just getting rid of all of our garbage to make the move easier. So it's just. I don't know. Ready for this episode, though? I hear it's something interesting. I mean, look for the listeners.

4:33 Jeremy wouldn't even let me look up any information about it because he wanted to surprise me with how cool it was. So excited for that, whatever that may be. This has become an instant bucket list. Destination instant. I want to do it real bad. And next week's episode, we are actually talking to a field researcher who's been to this place not once, but twice, and has written one of the only books strictly on this topic. That's more times than you've been there, probably. That is a lot. I mean, I don't know. I've been there a couple times in my daydreams, that's for sure. Yeah, but yeah, we get to talk to him tomorrow. You get to listen in a week.

5:17 Yeah, Take that. Anyways, where are you moving to, Jake? Oh, just a little. A little town, about 16,000 people in it. Somewhere close to you. Places starts an M Yeah. Might be actually working in the same company. Takes moving out by me for sure this time. Like yeah. And this time he's not going to change his mind until he does. Yep, Yep, Yep. We're. Going to move out there and then quit the podcast again. All right, moving on. We do have one other guest tonight and that is our old pal CJ CJ, welcome back, man. What's happening guys?

6:00 How are you, man? I got the smallest waves of everybody. No, I definitely have the smallest ones. I think it's just look, when you're looking at your own stuff, I am dead serious. Every wave looks exactly the same. But Jake's waves are real small on my screen. Jeremy's are like super peaking and mine are teeny tiny. All right, not one person listening to this gives a shit about our. Which try to edit this this audio and Jeremy's is like gain blown out. It's bad. I just I just don't want to be the smallest one in the room. Nah, man. I'm looking at, I'm looking at mine and it. I'm definitely the smallest and it's OK Never gotten a complaint about the audio that is. Anyways, CJ, CJ asked me what we were what we were talking about tonight.

6:49 Oh, I did. I got to do some research ahead of time. Haha, Jake, he just did it on his own. I didn't tell him to do it because. Jeremy likes me more. 28 minutes. That's how long the video was that I watched. Really. Dang. Yeah, I didn't even watch a video. I should watch videos on this because this is it's probably pretty cool. So I actually went on a cruise back in May through Alaska and I passed the place that we're talking to you about tonight. Yeah. Did they point it out or? Yeah, yeah, I saw it with my physical eyes. I didn't. We didn't. We didn't get the port there. Obviously we didn't get the port in like any abandoned place, but right, there were a whole bunch of towns we went to where certain cryptids are a very big deal out there. Right on.

7:36 I got. I got a Bigfoot wallet from Alaska. You did. You sent me a ton of pictures of all the Bigfoot shit there. Yeah, it's a huge deal out there. It was pretty cool. Well, now we have to go. Yeah. Do we have to go? We have. To we. Have to yeah. There's a there's a cruise that goes out there and the whole thing is a giant Bigfoot hunt. No, that that's too commercialized. We don't. Let's, let's do, Let's come. On I want to go with moot and holler into the woods and scare about No, no, no, no, no. We're gonna do real stuff if we go anyways. We're gonna get eaten by a brown bear if we go. That's how real it's going to be. It wasn't that bad. I was about 100 yards from a brown bear. No, no, no. We're not going to be with anybody else. We're going to be in there getting eaten by the brown bear because we want it to be authentic, it went the full experience.

8:22 Yeah. They're big. I want to come back without a missing, without an arm. You're going to come back without your soul because the bears going to snatch it right out of your body. They're big. Good. You're going to turn it into a tightly coiled piece of shit in the woods. You sound like a man that has never seen bear poop before. No, actually it's very clumpy. Yeah, mostly with berries. But anyways, for those of you that haven't had a chance yet, go on over to our new companion podcast. That's right, there's two Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast now. Docs by Infinite Rabbit Hole is our companion show that only gives you the story on the topic we're talking about tonight.

9:10 So you'll get none of the chitter chatter, none of the bullshit and none of the name calling, none of the opinions, none of that. You will only hear the story that you can move on with your life head on over. That's Docs by Infinite Rabbit Hole. And also, if you're not on the Facebook page, I made an announcement the other day. I have opened up all the episodes of The Infinite Rabbit Hole. No longer are our old episodes behind a paywall. I said screw it, just throw it all out there. Who cares? We have 150 episodes and this one is 151. We had growing pains and and it is what it is. So just throw it out there for everyone to enjoy. Somewhere down the road, sometime pretty soon we will be opening up some sort of subscription based service where we offer some extra stuff that is in the works. I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be. It's going to be at some point probably next year, maybe not, who knows.

10:04 But it is in the works. So get ready and stay tuned for news on that. Without further ado, you guys ready to roll? Dude, I'm so ready. I'm down. Let's go. Let's learn a little bit about Port Lock Alaska. Port Lock Alaska was first established by a captain of the Royal Navy by the name of Nathaniel Portlock in 1786. Portlock is now one of many ghost towns in America and there is some confusion to many with the name of the town actually was. A few different books and web articles that I've read claim the town is Portlock and others call it Port Chatham. After minimal research, I was able to decipher that the town was indeed officially called Portlock by studying postal records.

10:50 Chatham, however, was the name given to the Bay that Portlock was settled on, which was named after the ship HMS Chatham, which was captained by the famed explorer and cartographer George Vancouver in 1791. I had this bit of information as many will claim that the name of the town is 1 or the other depending on where their research came from, but for this presentation I'll be referring to this town as Portlock. Some will claim that there were two towns on the shores of the Port, Chatham Bay, but I was unable to find any hard evidence to support that. An overwhelming majority of my research for this presentation came from the book Abandon the History and Horror of Port Chatham, Alaska by author Larry Baxter and is highly recommended if you enjoy this subject or subjects of ghost towns and or Bigfoot.

11:40 In the early 1900s Portlock became the home of a then state-of-the-art fish cannery and cold storage facility that would prove to be incredibly important and successful during the time prior to and during World War One. Speaking of World War One, Portlock exported another extremely important resource for the efforts of the war. Over 1000 tons of chromite ore was processed into metals for machines and weaponry for the use by American service members. Besides chromite and fish, the area is extremely rich in timber and coal, which led the area to become a major hotspot in each of these industries while successfully attracting investors, workers and entrepreneurs to give the prosperous land their best shot. Port Lock and Chatham Bay were very successful and the place was beginning to explode with life and infrastructure. That is, until the year 1950, when the last resident, the postmaster, lived in the town entirely alone for just over one year left, making Port Lock an official ghost town. The fishing town which has school for grades one through 8, Fox and Mink farms, a successful cannery, numerous high yielding mines of different resources, a post office and a billiards hall that its entire population drained in response to the fabled and murderous creature

13:12 named by the local natives and known by all locals as the Knock Knock. Welcome to Port Chatham guys and Port Lock. What do you think? I wonder who owns it now? That is actually a fantastic question for our guest that will be on this show tomorrow. Well, with. Well the the reasoning is, is that there's a lot of ghost towns all over the place. But just because they're abandoned doesn't mean you can like explore them because you could still get hit up for trespassing and all kinds of stuff. You know you go explore some abandoned buildings there could be a lawsuits in order because depending on how long things have been sitting there if you get injured while you're there and all sorts of stuff, right. There's a bunch of legalities around it. So I mean for the in the realm of. Going to explore this place because of the the tales and you know, history surrounding it, which I I know you're going to get into, but it just makes me wonder like how much can you actually do of within the boundaries of the town itself? If I were to guess, I would say not a whole whole lot, because while we were there, there were a number of ghost towns that were around the areas we ported in. And they flat out told us do not go there, you will get arrested. Yeah.

14:37 They they're pretty serious up there about not letting people explore and well, because it's really easy to get lost or get hurt in places like this, and even in the woods out there, they get pretty strict about those things. So actually, right here at the back of the book, I was thinking about it because I did read this book entirely. Page 140, he he makes a special thanks to the English Bay Corporation for allowing us access to your land. It was an amazing experience. So there's your answer, the English Bay Corporation. So now we know who we got to get in touch with. Yeah, yeah. I wonder what sort of poll you have to have for something like that, or how much money and signing all sorts of waivers and legal documents and things like that.

15:24 Yep. Yeah, it might be worth it. Yeah, it might be. I mean certainly. Yeah, I was just thinking about that. I was like, man, because there's a lot, there's a lot of ghost towns, a lot of really interesting history why they became ghost towns. You know, sometimes it's due to resources drying out or whatever, right? And then it's just not really worth it to demolish the talent and rebuild because even still where people going to work, you know, XY&Z, whatever, you know, a lot of minds drying up and things like that. But it's like. You know, and they'll just leave him sitting like that and you'd think off top of your head, well, obviously it's abandoned, so no one owns it. Well, that's not the case, right? Someone always owns that land and they're more than willing to prosecute anybody who just wants to go and have a peek, you know, if you get caught.

16:07 So of course, of course, well, our guest will definitely know how to do it because he's done it twice. There you go. So well, twice since the book came out. Could be more. We'll talk to him. Find out, CJ. You got anything, man? Not really, no. I think the, I think the story of it's pretty interesting so far. So I'm looking forward to hearing your details on that. Right on, man, you guys ready to roll? Oh. Yeah. All right, let's jump into the knock knock. According to author Larry Baxter, whose book abandoned the history and horror of Port Chatham, Alaska. Some say it means giant hairy thing. Some say it means half man, half beast, while still others will tell you it does not translate well and say there are no direct translations to English.

16:59 The indigenous people around Port Lock refer to and directly tell stories about the knock knock. One particular telling is of a group of hunters afloat and what is now referred to as Dogfish Bay. One of the men wanted to be dropped off on the shore once the sun came up so that he may live in the forest with the knock knock. This was apparently a part of his plan from the beginning of the hunting trip as he had discussed this goal with his wife and he had told her to stay put and not venture into the forest as he did not want her to get dragged away by him or another of the knock knock. According to him, he would grow hairy and would eventually become one of the feared beasts, and that it was her duty to be with the children. A man was spotted frequently around the area and the transformation from man into one of the knock knock was well seen.

17:54 Eventually the transformation was so strong that he no longer spoken words, but rather in whistles and was not able to understand human speech. During one particular hunting trip, a group of men were roaming along the airstrip of modern day nearby Port Graham in search of ducks when a loud set of whistles erupted from the tree line. One of the men whistled back in the direction of the original call. Shortly after, the men spotted a large brown bear making its way through the water. The men stood and watched as the animal exited onto the shore by the airstrip and began charging after the men turned tail and ran back to town, where the man who whistled back to the original caller fell ill and the man eventually recovered.

18:43 Shortly after the incident at the airstrip. The creature was seen commonly around the area of Second Lake and the locals began blaming it for the disappearances of their pets and other animals. It was believed that this specific knock knock that these villagers were seeing was the man who left the tribe to become one of the creatures himself. The story is told by a native elder named Melania Kel in a YouTube video with Kathy Brewster on the Madea, Kosovo de Haas YouTube channel and her native language. In this video Brewster translates word for word Melania Kells telling of the story of the Notna 1. Glaring difference between this story of a Bigfoot like creature and many others told is the detail of a human transforming into a creature. This particular aspect is more commonly seen in tellings of spirits or creatures like the the Wendigo or the Kustaka as told by the Alaskan Tingling natives. Along with this difference, there are many others, such as the common description of the creature using tools such as a club or lumberjacks axe, with a few tellings, even mentioning the creatures shape shifting into another animal in order to get away unnoticed, And Larry Baxter's book Abandoned the History and Horror of Port Chatham, Alaska, Baxter includes a story from a book published in 1979 titled Old Beliefs by an FS Pulu.

20:09 About local legends and the lore of the Kenai Peninsula. Written in both English and the local tribes. Language of the Suksun. Word for word, the story goes there is a caveman in portlock. The caveman is tall. The caveman is hairy. The caveman is a real person. He didn't want to live with people. He went to live in the forest. Soon his clothes were worn out, so his body became hairy. Soon his shoes were worn out, so his feet became big. He did not see anyone. He did not talk with anyone. Soon he forgot to talk. He talked by whistling. He can see you before you can see him. He will not harm you.

20:54 He is like a Big Bear. If you bother him, he will bother you. And this is the story of the Caveman, a port lock. Throughout the historical narratives of the knock knock, the creatures described mostly the same, with the only real difference being the color that is reported. Now primarily the creature has been reported as black or brown, but many reports exists of the creature being Gray or Auburn in color. The creature is described as having a bad habit of kidnapping children and full grown adults as well as livestock and pets. In fact, the Dina Ena, one of the many tribes that called Kenai Peninsula home, called the Creature not Tina, which translates to the Ones Who Steal Us So unlike the story that was told just prior, Another glaring difference between the Knock Knock and the Canadian Lower 48 version of Bigfoot is that it is extremely hostile and dangerous. The creature was so dangerous, that story has it that an entire town abandoned everything they knew and worked towards in order to save themselves and their families from the wrath of a creature whose reports go back further than the famed Jerry Crew prints an incredibly popular Patterson Gimlin film. All right guys, your turn.

22:17 It's. Very interesting story. A lot of native lore about this. It's very, very cool that not only did this whole town seemingly the story is is that this town seemingly just got up and left because they were being harassed by this creature. But you have a ton of native lore that dates back way before even the establishment of this fishing town. And that's, you know, something we we hit on often. You know, obviously there's a lot of stories surrounding animals that native tribes had contact with all the time. You know, how did the Earth come into existence? You know the difference of good and evil, all these different things, or the fight of good and evil rather? But that's something we always hit on on this is that, you know, these people, even if they had stories that were sometimes fantastic stories about the animals they dealt with on a regular basis, like the fox, the wolf, you know, up there in Alaska, probably the seal, all all these sorts of things. That doesn't mean that they weren't talking about animals that existed.

23:27 And again with all the reports or all the stories, all the lore, all the legends about. Sasquatch. Or you know what they would call them in their own native languages. You know, Again, this is a fantastic story about someone turning into one, but that doesn't mean that those two things aren't, you know, real. Obviously people exist, right? But that doesn't mean that this creature doesn't exist. And this could be their way of a fantastic story talking about essentially how these things came into existence, which was people turning into them in just this one individual case. Either way, I love it when there's deep Native American legends and and history and and stories regarding Sasquatch or Sasquatch type animals and stuff. It's just lends deeper into the possibility of. Either their existence or you know that they did previously exist.

24:35 I think it's pretty cool, CJ What do you got, man? My favorite part was how it turned from originally being just like a hermit guy who got furry to and like you could leave him alone, he'd ignore you to now he's snatching kids. Yeah, that is such a popular trend though. Like we had just done an episode on the Ozar Haller where the the story behind it, the fable behind it, was that a man had to rid of his wife in order to marry someone more wealthy with more political connections. So he hired somebody who who studies witchcraft from his hometown in New Orleans or New Orleans Nolans and turned her into the Ozark Hallor.

25:24 Now that's only one example. There's plenty of them. There's tons of examples where story is created, whether it be by natives or by the 1st settlers of somebody who got pushed aside by society or by the tribe, or chose to go out into the woods and became this creature that haunts them. But there must be more to this, Jeremy. How could they abandon everything off of a story? There must be more. Do you guys think that maybe, like, they encountered like, say, like a Bigfoot, and then over time, maybe somebody was doing something they weren't supposed to and blamed the Bigfoot for it, And that's why the the story transformed from, hey, there's this peaceful creature who lives over there to oh, he's snatching babies.

26:17 Right. Because this person's kidnapping people and killing them, you know, worse. Yeah. I mean, we're gonna get into some stuff here in a little bit, definitely. If there wasn't a Bigfoot, there was definitely a serial killer about. Because because like, if we look at like with all of our Bigfoot tails and like skunk apes and all that, we don't really hear about them snatching children, right? That's not really like a thing that goes on. If anything, especially nowadays you have missing kids that are found days later saying that they were being cared for by bears and that's not something that bears do, right? They're very opportunistic hunters. So it's like and if the if if a animal behavior. I don't think an animal behavior would change like that. Like either a bear becomes docile and takes care of a human kid or a Bigfoot goes from like, you know, CJ is saying nice and peaceful to suddenly just on a murderous rampage. You know, I I agree it does.

27:26 It definitely sound like, you know, as we get into this, that someone was doing something awful and then was just blaming the Bigfoot. Oh gosh, the Bigfoot. They're killing people with. Cutting implements, you know. Yeah, then like. Like with Jake's mountain gorilla episode, and he was talking about they were at the zoo and the lady like showed the gorilla her baby. The gorilla went and got their baby came back, but they they know what babies are, right? They know what children are. So it doesn't really make sense that they would be stealing them, right? Like and are, are any of the great apes really known for snatching human children and like taking them? It's a good question.

28:07 I don't know. I wouldn't put it past like chimpanzees and stuff, but. It more to be like to eat kids, but that's just that. I'm gonna ask Google. That's just out of my own, you know, opinion of how vicious chimps can be. I mean, Jake, we just found out CJ still listens to the show. I know. That's cool. That's cool. Thanks, CJ Thanks for your support, man. You guys ready to move on? I wanna see what the Google machine says for CJ. So apparently. Chimpanzees and macaques will steal human babies, but they're like the only ones known to do that.

28:50 Did they eat the kids? It doesn't say, but that means a chimp. So I can only imagine that there was some form of violence involved, right? Yeah, rough. So then in that case, if we could, if we could come to the conclusion that Sasquatch, since it's bigger, would be more like a gorilla. Or one of the, you know, other more docile great apes. I mean gorillas are very was it their, they kind of hang out by themselves. They don't, you know, they'll roam around in groups and stuff. But I mean like they don't, they're shy. They don't like getting run up on and stuff like that. I mean they they will do those dominant displays and stuff when threatened, but they're not seeking out that sort of behavior like a chimpanzee will.

29:40 So if we could. Liken A Sasquatch to the same sort of behavior. Then it would make sense that this wouldn't be, you know, this would be pointed at a person, a person's activity versus you know, them. Unless an extreme example occurred. Remember, we're technically part of the great A family and there's a couple of us that are pretty fucked up. I mean, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to think that one Bigfoot or a group of Bigfoot, maybe they were inbreeding or whatnot and they just or fuck, maybe they're all sick fucking just going out there just killing people. You know that that Alaskan wilderness is very, very vast and we started in Anchorage and went all the way down and through the icy straight, I think, and ended in Vancouver.

30:31 And in every single port we were at there was Bigfoot lore, right? So for it to be across that entire stretch of land, you know? Inbreeding seems kind of unlikely because animals will go out of their way to not inbreed, right? Like they'll travel because instinct drives them to mix their genetics and and form stronger things. So I'm not so sure about the whole inbreeding thing, but I I mean, there could be a psycho in the group, but it seems less likely because we don't really, we don't see that as often in animals like that. And like when you encounter like a gorilla, From the things I've seen and by, I'm by no means an expert in dealing with gorillas, but like, if you're like ever in, like a safari situation, if you like, don't touch the babies, don't make eye contact. Don't show them your teeth.

31:22 Yeah, you have a relatively good chance of not getting injured. Yeah, you know, don't make any movements, look at the ground, things like that. Like they they typically are. Like they're cool. So it doesn't really make sense that there would be like a serial baby snatcher. That's a that's a Bigfoot. It doesn't like fit the MO and we don't really have like again, just to revisit, we don't really have those legends across the United States like Bigfoot aren't really known for snatching up children, right? Well, I mean to say that there is zero stories, I don't know. I mean we just did a can, right? Obviously they were.

32:02 They were pushed on in that version, but in that episode we also brought up Dolotop Pass, and although although you know the jury's out, we don't really know what it what actually happened in Dolla Pass. One of the big theories is that a Yeti just went batshit crazy and just killed everybody and threw half of a guy up in the tree. I mean, that's fair. I mean, they you have stuff like mad cow disease and other things like that. They can like affect animals, make them go nuts. They get a bad case of rabies running through. But like, if it was like rabies, it would kill them pretty quick.

32:43 They wouldn't have time to consistently be out there snatching kids. It wouldn't be over a time span of years. Mad cow disease was like spawned by feeding cows their own meat or something like that. So I guess the. Primate version would be like if they were in such a desperate situation that they had to eat, you know, go cannibalistic and stuff, I guess. Yeah. I don't know that that's besides me. I don't know anything about that. You guys ready to roll? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're ready. All right, let's talk about Andrew. In 1931, a man by the name of Andrew Kamlock would begin a lumber operation with two men from town in order to get away from the daily grind at the local fish cannery.

33:32 After three months, Andrew was by himself. His partners had quit, and so did any other help that Andrew attempted to hire from the job. It always went down the same way. The men would show up to the site, store their belongings and lunches near a shady tree or rock, and when they returned, their stuff was gone through and their food was gone. The blame was originally placed on critters such as bears or raccoons, but the streak of people giving up on Andrew and his logging job began when the trickery turned more serious and sinister. The men showed up to work one morning with logging chains ripped apart, handles to access, snapped in half in the work area. Complete mess.

34:17 Originally, Andrew blamed it on an unknown competitor, but the locals knew what it was. The natives of the area told stories of the creature known as the knock Knock. They roamed the woods at a height over 7 feet, walked on two legs, and was completely covered in shaggy air. And you never believed the legend and would tell his workers that it was a story that natives would tell their children to keep them out of the forest at night. But the hired help and his original partners thought differently of the omens that had plagued the work site it calls Heard coming from the forest for more than enough evidence to convince all of the others that this was not a place for them, and eventually Andrew decided that the job would just have to be done by himself. Andrew Kamloch was found dead with a very large piece of the logging equipment that was clearly used as a weapon, sitting about 10 feet away from him and his very damaged body. This particular piece of equipment was far too heavy for any average man to pick up, let alone swing or throw at someone, and resembled a small crane, but it also had a very large splatter of blood on it and seemed to be tossed to the side after committing the kill.

35:37 All right, guys. What do you guys think about Andrew's story? Sometimes you're just destroyed by a giant piece of locking equipment. Well, I tried to get a really good description of this. Maybe our guest tomorrow will have some more input on this. But from what I was reading, basically was there was no way that this piece of equipment, the way it was sitting away from his body, there was no way that it just fell on him. That's just didn't happen. This was used. It was, it was damaged as it was, you know, coming down onto his body or whatnot, on the rocks or or the trunks or trees or whatever the hell it was hitting on his way down, you know, mutilating this guy and then tossed aside.

36:26 I mean, if it had just fell down, you know, where it was about 10 feet of his away from his body. If it had fell on Andrew, it would just be on top of him, you know, You'd be dead. I mean, Andrew was dead. Dead like skull broken open. Real dead. Yeah. Like, really, really dead. There was no pushing this off of him, you know what I'm saying? He wasn't doing that. He was dead. What if instead of somebody hitting him with the equipment, what if they hit the equipment with him? That's yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely could have, that's for sure. I didn't think of it that way, yeah. This because, I mean, we've all been, we've all been in schoolyard fights, so we've at least seen them a handful of times in life.

37:18 Like, it's not uncommon for one person to grab another person, swing them around and throw them, you know? So if you had enough, if you if they grabbed them by like, the ankles and like just started swinging, they could get them off the ground and smack them up against something pretty easily. I could. Anything. Shoulders. Shit. Fucking a Sasquatch could probably put his fucking palm around your chest and just just. Slam dunk you into a piece of farming equipment, yeah? Man, that'd be a hard way to go. That would suck. But you know what I do like about this story though, is that's more like in the wheelhouse of pissed off Sasquatch behavior, right?

38:05 Like when you guys talked about Ape Canyon, I think it was the Ape Canyon episode. Where like they had like that cabin and they shocked one and all of a sudden there were like 20 of them coming into the campsite trying to snatch the axe out of the house. Yeah. You know, you know, so this is like, this is more believable than just running around snatching up kids and stuff where they're like, maybe they did something to upset the Sasquatch and he came in, he was like, all right, all right, I see how it is and just bounces him off the equipment. And then throws his body to the side. That wouldn't be hard for a Sasquatch to do. Smash you off something and then just cast your mutilated body somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very true.

38:51 Very, very true. Scary. That's that's rough, man. I couldn't imagine being in that situation. Well, if we're going to take a trip to port lock, we'll almost certainly get an opportunity in that situation. Did they check to see if his underwear was loaded up? Because if a Sasquatch grabbed me and picked me up off the ground, immediately filling my pants. Even if I didn't have to know, I don't know. I have no idea. Good questions. Good questions. No idea. All right. You guys ready to move on? Yeah. OK. All right. All right. Let's talk about some other accounts real quick. A gold prospector who had moved into the area in 1931 in order to verify the claims that the area was rich in metals and minerals, he had received word that there was a stream not too far away that was largely unprospected and unexplored. This sound like a perfect place to him, but a few of the old timers weighed in and warned him of the wild man that lived in the area.

39:57 They reiterated that there was a reason why the area remained mostly untouched, but the prospector would have none of it and continuously claimed that from California through Canada all the way to here to Alaska, the most dangerous thing he had ever seen in the wild was a Wolverine. So he went on his way until he reached a wellmade game trail that would take him to the Creek, and unfortunately he was never seen again. Another disappearance details a crew of sheep hunters who had taken off for the nearby mountains and never were seen again. Nobody really knew them, but a little while after they left, bodies began showing up in the waters around Portlock with injuries and decapitations that were never seen before.

40:43 The wounds were so bad that nobody believed that a bear would do such a thing, not to mention that bears would often eat their kill, not throw it into the water. In 1905, many of the native workers at the fish cannery walked out of the job due to the fear that there was something in the nearby woods that was extremely malicious. It wasn't until the cannery brought in armed security that the workers returned. In 1923, Sergius Moonen and his girlfriend witnessed an upright, large walking creature covered in hair strolling on the beach nearby. In the early 1940s, the creature was spotted on the beach rummaging through a fish trap by Tom Larson.

41:28 Larson raised his rifle to take a shot at the creature, but as he was focusing in, he was able to get a really good look at its face and realized that it looked extremely humanlike. Tom couldn't pull the trigger, so he put his finger down and backed away slowly with the rifle fixed on the creature until he felt he was at a safe distance away. In 1948, multiple hunters were found mutilated in the area that was surrounded with very large humanlike bare footprints. 1949 marked the year that a trackway was found of 18 inch humanlike footprints which seemed to be tracking a moose. The footprints of the creature and the moose merged in an area that showed that there was quite the struggle and the moose tracks ceased and the tracks just stopped.

42:18 But the human, like Prince, continued for quite a while up the mountain before they became unfollowable. In 1968, a hunter was chased out of a nearby ravine after the town was abandoned by an upright walking giant covered in hair. A group of hunters took shelter for two nights in their tents by Dogfish Bay to get out of a rather strong storm that passed through in 1973. Both nights the men claimed to hear something large and on two legs, walking around and apparently looking into their belongings that were left outside. And in the 80s, another group of hunters claimed to be screamed at by an unknown animal. Now, these are just a few of the very long list of events that involved an upright, walking, hairy creature in the area surrounding Port Lock, Alaska. That first one didn't seem mad.

43:10 The ordinary to me. No, I bet that happened a lot back then. Even even today, I mean we talked about missing 411 and stuff, but people go missing all the time. I mean, shoot, just, I mean, this is very unfortunate, but just I'll say a couple months ago there was a a local kid here that was hiking and he fell off a Cliff or something and he passed away. I mean, people nowadays we have. Very extensive search and rescue teams and all sorts of stuff, GPS trackers, yadda yadda all the sorts of stuff. I mean your phone can track your your G, PS:, location in most circumstances, so I mean, but yeah, back then I'm sure there was a lot of disappearances, especially if you're going to an area that has apparently £1000 brown bears, you're going to go missing and you're never going to get seen again. Now going into that obviously as you got past just the first account.

44:03 All of these seems very, very Sasquatchy, right? Especially when it comes to human like footprints, you know? And so it's like, yeah, all right, I'll, I'll buy those for sure. And if, you know, we want to talk about some crazy single Sasquatch or or multiple Sasquatch, this is like a this is a big stretch though. This is what like a 7080 year stretch? Like 1905 to 1980. So I mean, I guess, I mean, who knows the lifespan of those of the creatures. So I mean, but I think this would be more like a troop of them or or whatever you consider a pack of big feats or Sasquatchs or whatever. A murder.

44:51 It's a murder. A murder Sasquatch is like crows, but it could just, I mean, in this circumstance, but it could just be, you know, it's just a group of them that are just pissed off and they're just. Tired of their all these people coming in and get in the way of things. Maybe with the with the stories that were already perpetuated by the Native Americans regarding how the wild man came about and stuff that might have put a a fear into the locals to where they'd be more willing to attack them if they saw them. Which would lead to that sort of, you know, aggression, especially in smart animals. You know, animals that could. Understand that, you know, humans are bad and they should be, you know, use extreme force to get them to leave and stuff. So depending on the intelligence level of the creatures themselves.

45:42 So yeah, I mean I could see that it would be more along the lines of a group of them that are just like anytime they they came in contact with a human or or saw them or saw their you know, heavy equipment or whatever that they would react in a in a hostile, violent way. When I was there, they were telling us that even 10 or 15 minutes walking in the woods without somebody who knows where they're going is enough to get lost for a really long time. And like when you look in the forest there, every single tree looks exactly like the next tree. It really, it would be super easy to get turned around. I I, I buy all those stories except for the moose one. Like they're just in there throwing hands with a moose. I'm not buying that.

46:25 Like that's like. They're not fighting the moose. They'll fight a deer, sure, but not a moose. Like that's a walking. That's a walking cow tank. Like that's that's like saying like, oh, we got Yao Ming, LeBron James and Shaq. They're going to go fight the moose. No. They're going to get killed. I don't think they're by. I don't. I don't think they're fighting the moose, dude. Dude. OK, so I specifically included this one because of how close it is to my own experience with a with a Bigfoot, right? And in my experience. Year though, right. But I mean, I don't know. I just pictured it, you know, I just pictured, I mean who The one, the thing I saw wasn't that big, at least from you know what I remember, it wasn't as big as everyone else explains these things to be, you know, who knows the age of the thing I saw.

47:14 But these things have been reported. I mean, I mean, honestly, these things have been reported up 20 feet, but I mean on average between 7 and 10 feet tall, I mean. Right. Four to to £800, right? So big, big animals. I mean, you get a big 10 footer, you know, that takes dumps the size of me. I don't know, man. That might be a pretty good fight. Have you ever seen a moose? Yes, I have seen a moose and they are ginormous. Yes. Have you seen what moose do to cars when they're angry? Oh man, I saw a video of a moose get hit by a car. I don't mean to laugh. That was, that was nuts, that thing, Jake, you ever seen that? Yeah.

48:01 Years ago I worked at a truck dealership and they brought into The Body Shop a semi that had hit a moose and the semi was totaled. Oh, I'm sure. And I bet the moose walked off. No. Actually, the Moose's head was still up in the wheel. Well, it was. Not not walking off. No. No at that. Time. No, it was a it was a tie in that fight. But still, like, I really don't like. Maybe if there were like 8 to 12 of these Sasquatch, maybe they could manhandle a moose. But mooses are war machines where, like, their only natural predator out there is an orca. Literally. I mean, I guess to. Put credit to the story, they were only following the footprints of the moose and the Bigfoot. They didn't mention if there was other big feet not falling in a single file line, but maybe coming in from the sides towards this thing too.

48:56 Trying to, you know, come in at it. Right. They didn't specify, but they were like, Oh yeah, there were signs of a great struggle. And then the moose's track stopped like, Oh my gosh. OK, so I had to. I had to Google this real quick. Just the the natural predators that hunt moose, wolves, bears, killer whales, CJ and. Wolverines, oh Wolverines will kill everything. Wolverines kill everything. They don't care. Wolverines aren't that big, though, No, but they've been known to take down freaking moose. Yeah, well, you're talking like a calf. Actually, a lot of animals will straight run away from a Wolverine.

49:39 Like there's like a they put a tracker on a Wolverine once and this Wolverine like went up over the top of a mountain, killed a whole bunch of stuff and then came back. He didn't even eat it. Like he just went over the top of this mountain to just body people. Like was not to fuck me. It's not about the Honey Badger anymore, Wolverine. Wolverine doesn't give no craps. He's nasty. He's nasty. Apparently these moose trying to cross waters. They get snatched up by killer whales all the damn time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that. But the like the wolf thing, they'll attack like sick ones. Like a a Wolf Pack is not attacking like a buck who's in rut.

50:21 Like, right, You know, just full on moose and out. Right. Like, it's really, really, it's really, really unbelievable. Like, just like Moose really are like a powerhouse. Right. You know of an animal, they they beat up cars. If you can beat up a car, nothing is taking hands to you. Gosh. And there, I mean, just the size of their rack just lends to how strong these things are. The fact that they can keep their head up with a with their rack that frickin big and heavy, I mean, that's pretty incredible. Yeah, that's a lot of, that's a lot of muscles just in the neck. I don't know, man.

51:03 I'm I'm not throwing out the idea of a Sam Squinch, or at least like a gaggle of them taking down a moose. Now if they brought boulders with them and they were just bashing this thing in the face with boulders, maybe because it, like they're known to Sasquatch, are known to use tools, right? Like in the there, there is a lot of reports of it. Yeah, I mean, I mean, if you look at all the great apes, there's very primitive usage of tools, yes. So I mean maybe then like if they were just like, alright, here's a moose, let's hit him with that piece of crane equipment, somebody go get that, you know?

51:44 I just killed a guy with it. It's clearly good enough to takedown the moose. Maybe they use, maybe they use the guy to kill the moose. They hit, hit the moose with the guy, and then slammed him against the crane equipment. Alright, so if we if we exclude that story then the rest of them all seem fairly believable. I I don't disbelieve the moose one. I don't. I I I can definitely tell it it it'd be very hard. Yes. I just. I'm not. I'm not. Jeremy just really wants Bigfoot to be the next Marvel character. No, because I hate. Toss buildings in a single bound hate with a passion, you. Hate Marvel?

52:26 I do. I wonder why you're not happy. Ever. Yeah. Yeah. No. I I feel like Marvel is just. You know a DC fan. I am a DC fan. Yeah, see, I am a DC fan. That's what it is, yeah. I like the dark stuff, man. I don't like, I don't like, I don't like someone jiggling keys in front of me and it just doesn't do it for me. I need actual context. You need the the Zack Snyder cut. Yeah, no, not really. Not the Zack Snyder cut. I'm not bigger than the movies. I used to read the comics as a kid. You said you like it dark. No, I do.

53:07 I do like it with DC. I do like it dark. I like the boys. The boys is fantastic. Have you seen the boys? No. I watched the first season, it's really good. My gosh, Jake, you have never seen the boys. I don't even know what you're talking about. I thought you. Oh my gosh. Do you know superheroes? No, it's on Amazon. Dude. You have to watch the boys. Jake, you'd probably really like it. It's it's hard for me though, because pretty much when I'm home now I have Logan, so it's not something I can watch while he's around. Yeah, Jake. OK, OK. Don't watch it around, children. I don't have any children, so I know. Just like, you know, just don't. Right, Jake, don't watch it.

53:50 You are children. That's right. Oh man. Oh, this is oh, it makes sense now. I've been seeing clips of this, and I was just like, I don't know what this is. Yeah, you gotta watch that. All right, moving on. Let's go. Let's come on back down to reality here, boys. This is the last paragraph that I have for the night. We're gonna meet. No more moose killing. No more moose killing. We're going to, we're going to hear a little bit of a little bit of reality on the whole port lock subject. And then we're going to, we're going to wrap her up. All right, you guys ready to roll? Larry Baxter outlines a discussion that he had with Joseph Carlo, who lived in port Lock until he was 17.

54:38 Joe was able to shine a light on a few different aspects of both the town of Port Lock and the legend of the Not Enough first being on what life was like there. He mentioned how the entire town had running water but did not have electricity. The only electricity was a generator at the sawmill. This made it very hard for life there, and if it wasn't for the fishing and sawmill, the town would have nothing to exist for. According to Joe, the sawmill burned down which caused the other important buildings to burn, and that is what ended up chasing everyone out of the town. Joe does mention that there were plenty of stories around the town about creatures in the woods, but nothing he ever experienced himself.

55:25 The revelation here is that according to a man who left Portlock when he was 17, the town was not abandoned due to a monster who terrorized the people. Rather it was the burning of the town's number one source of income and reason. Although the town burned down, author Larry Baxter mentions that he is not upset about the truth about Portlock Alaska. Whether or not the town left due to the not knock or not, the real intrigue about the area is that the creatures were there before the establishment of portlock and they will be there for long after. And I will have to agree with the amazing events that happened while Baxter was researching the area and brilliant history passed down by the natives. I just do not see how someone who enjoys the world of unknown hairy creatures who stalk the forests cannot be in love with such a place.

56:22 With that being said, there are plenty of modern sightings that have taken place in the Kenai Peninsula. In the 1980s, a hunter watched as a 7 or 8 foot hairy creature walking on two legs scrolled across the road, stopped, looked at him and continued into the tree line. In 2004, a husband and wife watched a hairy biped run across the road on the Stirling Hwy. 2015 gave us a sighting of firefighters who are tending to a local emergency witnessed an upright hairy creature walking into the woods after apparently watching the fire before the crew showed up. 16 1/2 inch left footprint was found by a hiker near Moose Pass in 2016.

57:08 In 2018 a truck driver reported two separate individuals walking around his truck while he was pulled over for the night, and in 2019 a couple were kayaking and witnessed the Bigfoot holding on to two tree trunks and shaking them as they approached before walking further into the forest. And that is all I have on port lock and the knock knock. I mean both things could be true at the same time. It could have been in combination of things. If that was the case, then yes, I mean it would be like a majority of the ghost towns out there. That's because like I stated for earlier, the resources dried up some. You know, in this circumstance something could have taken place like a fire and then just been like you know what, it's not worth it to rebuild.

57:56 We're already dealing with. Enough stuff as it is, you know, maybe it was the wrong season for it. You know, winter had set in and then things start catching on fire and it's just like okay, we need to get out of here because you know, if things continue, we're all going to be frozen to the ground type stuff, right? So there could have been that. There could have been hostile creatures out there, both of them could definitely be at the same time. And everyone just kind of called it and said, all right, we're enough is enough, we're out. I don't one were taking one person's point of view from when he was 17 years old. Right. Did the thing burn down?

58:39 Yeah, I actually found that it did. It did a lot of a lot of places burnt down in this little fishing town. But I agree. I don't. You know, this could have been something where tensions were high and then an accident happened and it was just the the stroller broke the camel's back, you know, it was like, all right, that's it, We're done. Fuck this out, yeah? I'm wondering if like Sasquatch or like they operate inside tribes and not like family units, cuz like cuz I know like guerrillas operate inside family units right? So I'm wondering, yeah, if they like if they do tribes. And like we just have what we're looking at as like an overly aggressive, maybe slightly more violent tribe of Bigfoot than we're kind of accustomed to here like mainland US. So to answer your question, there are a ton of instances where people have seen Bigfoot working together. It is well thought that Bigfoot are in tribes and that the women and children are near the center of where the men go out and stand century.

59:51 Now everyone who has who does field research in the Bigfoot comes across this phenomenon where you hear screaming on one Ridge and screaming on another or wood knocks on one Ridge and then wood knocks way, way. You know they're communicating with each other very far distances. And the title for those individuals are centuries. They call them centuries and they're doing just like what we do, right? They're watching, they're watching. They're going to alert under certain circumstances, if you cross the wrong line and you know, the invisible line in the woods, they're going to let everybody know. They're going to also, as we have heard through Carter Bush hard, you know that whole counting phenomenon where they'll set down 5 stones for five people or make 5 knocks for five people where apparently Bigfoot has a problem with counting over three, right.

1:00:47 So 123 wait a little bit, 1-2 to cover the next two in the group of five people. To kind of shorten this up for you, CJ, it is well known within the Sasquatch community. Or believed. Not known. We'll go with believed that yes, they do live in tribes. They are not solitary animals. Now you may see them individually because they do cover ground, like they have their responsibilities, you know. And in the inside of this group or this the century borders, there's a group of females and babies or kids. They work together in community. Yeah, someone I'm wondering that in like because like if we look at like just Native Americans specifically, there were tribes that were like more inclined to peace and tribes that would definitely jump to war immediately. And I wonder like with we're seeing like a sort of like regional difference between like mindsets between the tribes we're like down here more towards like mainland USA like we have like a a more.

1:01:51 Mild Sasquatch. It's not really inclined towards violence, where we move up there to a harsher, more unforgiving landscape. Or maybe they're quicker to violence. I was just along thinking the same thing I was like I wonder if the fighting with local animals say like £1000 grizzly bear for resources like fish or whatever it is, or the berries and everything, especially as everything's trying to fatten up at the same time, if that. Necessity to be more prone to violence would carry into other interactions, like say, dealing with people in a town. You know, if that's something that could just easily be turned off, or if that's just they're more likely to act in that way because of the way that they have to live anyway.

1:02:40 Being more aggressive, more violent, yeah, it could have been a fight for resources. I mean, there could be a very large community up there, which means that food has to be distributed thinner. You know, men are out there hunting, trapping, tearing down the forest, that kind of stuff that could be pissing them off and be like, yo, got to feed our babies and shit. I'd rather just pick this little thing up and slam them up against his toy and throw his body 10 feet away from it. No no longer worried about that one. Yeah, they could be smart too. And they like, realize, like you don't have to kill them all. You just have to kill enough to scare the rest of them.

1:03:21 Yeah, maybe they could have been taking part in in like a hurting situation, keeping humans and in the town of Portlock watching the edges and just making sure everyone stayed in there and anybody who did wander out, Yeah, we would just kill him. And that would send the the story that we wanna portray. Or even still, it could have been the plan to kill every single person in there. And then people are just like, I'm tired of this, Let's go. You know, you get a gaggle of Bigfoot ninjas, but just go in there at night and just stealthily kill. Use them as weapons against the moose. That'd be a good movie. That's the next Sharknado. Yeah.

1:04:07 So that's it, guys. That's what I have now. For those of you that have still listened, make sure you turn in next week because we are talking Larry. Larry Baxter, He's got some amazing stories that I did not go over because I'm going to let him do it. Dan, Danny, you want book recommendations? You want to get this book. This is abandoned, Abandoned by Larry Baxter. Danny, that is highly recommended checking out, very good stuff and obviously it's a recommendation for everybody else as well. CJ, Jake, you guys got any final thoughts or anything else to put out? I'm excited to talk to the author tomorrow. I think that'll be cool.

1:04:50 I'll be able to ask him the questions that are kind of burning on my mind that. You know, he'll be able to explain in further detail, especially like, you know, should we want to do something like this, how exactly do we go about getting permission or access or what was the routes, things like that? You know, what did he find specifically in his comings and goings inside that town? You know, what does he believe as far as what really drove the people out? You know, that sort of stuff. You know, anything that's kind of come up since he put it out the book. So yeah, I'm definitely excited to speak with him tomorrow. I think it'll be really cool episode. But I think that you you also killed this one. Really good information, really interesting stuff, a lot of death, you know, which is good because our listeners are sick and you know, I brought up some good conversation and stuff and we should have CJ back on some more. I missed that guy.

1:05:46 Look at him sitting there with darkness. I I I'm very flattered. I listen to you guys in my truck all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Anyways, rumor is, is that we may be changing the format of Infinite Rabbit Hole slightly. You guys probably won't notice as listeners, but we will hear as host. We may be seeing CJ a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm up for it. Yep. So if you hate CJ, this would be the place for you. Oh my God, Nobody hates CJ. Nobody hates C. Ji wouldn't go that far, Jeremy. I'll have to have my ex come on the show. Yeah, never.

1:06:30 Right. Screw it. Let's bring them all. We'll get CJ and Andrew and Wes and and and Ken, Zar and Jeff and Jeremy and me and whoever that other guy was. That I can never, never remember. Does Wes still hate me? Probably. OK, I have no idea. It's just we'll just have an eight person crew. Yeah, fuck it. We have trouble talking over ourselves already. Yeah, but think about this. You do. You only have an episode once every eight weeks. Pretty sweet. Pretty sweet. I would have so many built up. The backlog would be insane. Well.

1:07:11 You can assign people stuff anyway anyways. Yeah. Good episode, Jeremy. Good job. Thanks, man. CJ, would you like to put out information about your podcast? I only have Mystery Stones. Still, Yeah, go ahead, put it out. Yeah, Mystery Stone podcast. We talk about the woo, woo, the insides, spirituality, religion. Then we dive into the occult and magic as well. And Jake thinks that we're demons and. No. Yeah. Worshippers maybe? No. No, not at all. But I don't play with none of that mess. But.

1:07:54 That's good. But yeah, no, that's that's pretty much it. Like, yeah, Mystery Stone. Yeah, that's all. That's it. But apparently, that's it, everybody. All right. Well, thank you for joining us on another episode. We'll see you in the next path of the infinite rabbit hole. Goodbye. Bye bye. I would like to thank you once again for tuning into the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. Please make sure to give us a follow and one of those beautiful five star ratings on your podcast player of choice. If you would like to join the conversation and stay up to date on all things Infinite Rabbit Hole, head on over to Facebook and search for the Infinite Rabbit Hole Facebook group.

1:08:41 You'll know it's us when you see the logo. If you would like to help contribute this cause, there are a few ways to do so. First, head on over to anchor dot FM forward slash infinite rabbit hole and click on the subscribe button, where for $5 a month you'll get access to all our old episodes that will never see the free spotlight ever again. It's horrible stuff, but if you're into that kind of thing and go check that second, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com and click on the IRH Merch shop tab and grab yourself a sweet tshirt sticker or whatever else you see that you wouldn't mind on. Until next time travelers, I'm Jeremy and I'll see you at the next fork in the path of the infinite rabbit hole.

1:09:42 As the timeline you into this tangent created in 1985 alternate, you need an. Einstein Doctor, now a team for everyone else.