June 18, 2024
170. Jason Hewlett: NDEs & Ogopogo
Today we have our old Bossman, Jason Hewlett in the studio to chat Near Death Experiences and his upcoming book and documentary on the "Loch Ness Monster of Canada", Ogopogo. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole!
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Everyone.
Else, welcome back to the
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Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
I'm your host, Jeremy, and today
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we have a special guest in the
house.
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But before we get to anybody of
importance, we have to talk to
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Jake.
What's up dude?
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Thanks man, appreciate the
intro.
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Nothing much.
I'm pretty wiped out, so I don't
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know how good I'm gonna do
during this interview, but I'm
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I'm here for you.
Bro I just got off a 12 hour
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shift he did.
Yeah, but I actually work for a
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living.
You don't.
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You sit in an office.
I slave away on airplanes.
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You knock, knock it off, knock
it.
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Off a little bit of a
difference.
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Anyways, so let's let's quickly
touch on what you just said.
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Jeff bailed on us again.
Supposedly he's still part of
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the infinite rabbit hole.
We'll see anyways, but we did
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have somebody that did show up
and that was our old boss man of
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the Paranormal Network, good
friend of the Incident rabbit
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hole author, boss man and legend
Jason Hilo.
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What's up dude?
Hey guys.
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How's it going?
What's?
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Going.
I can't believe, like the
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Paranormal Network, that was
like two years ago already,
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wasn't it?
Yeah, Like, wow, I was just
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thinking about that earlier
today, 'cause we, you guys
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launched your video podcast like
I think almost like exactly two
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years ago.
It feels like, if not earlier
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then you know what I mean?
It's like just heading into
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summer 2022.
Something like that.
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It's been a while, It's been a
while and we have never been as
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popular.
Which is awesome.
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Take us back.
Anyway, so we have you on today
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because we just finished up a
block on near death experiences
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and the very first book I used
for my research was your book
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Dying Light So Well.
I'm honored, man, that you
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started with that.
Well, yeah, of course, of
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course, man.
Good, good friend.
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I would I, I trust, I trust your
research.
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I really do.
Let's let's just start off with
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the the easy question.
What what?
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What brought you to doing a book
on Indies?
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It was almost so Peter Ren, who
he's a good friend of mine and
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he's the Co founder of our
Canadian paranormal society. him
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and I started that up here in
Canada.
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We're in Canada for those people
who don't know where we are
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right.
He and I wrote two previous
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books.
All three published would be on
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the fray publishing.
And when we were doing our
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second book, which is called I
want to believe in investigators
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archive, our our whole point
with that book was to interview
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a variety of paranormal
researchers and
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cryptozoologists, etcetera, and
kind of tell their stories.
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And one of the people we
interviewed, Angela Artuso, was
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telling kind of her story.
And right in the middle of it
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was this, she had this near
death experience, which is
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actually in this book.
It's the man in black chapter in
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this book.
And when we were done, like I
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called Peter up because it was
right in the middle of COVID.
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So we couldn't like do the
interviews in person.
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And most of the people we
interviewed didn't live anywhere
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near us.
And like Pete, like we got to do
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a, a book on the on near death
experiences.
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Like that story was too good to
include in the we just get lost
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in the middle of telling her
story.
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And he's like, yeah, we need to
do, do that.
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Like I know people who have had
near death experiences,
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etcetera.
Pete had one of his own.
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And so I contacted our our
publisher and they were like all
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over it.
They're like, yeah, do a book on
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on near death experiences.
And we were contractually had to
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do another book too.
So that felt like just the right
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thing to do.
So it was Angela's story that
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kicked the whole thing off for
us.
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And then it was like that fall
kind of became this deep dive
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into learning as much as I could
about near death 'cause I, I
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didn't, I'd heard of near death
experiences.
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I'd watched that Netflix series.
What was it?
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I can't remember the title of
Surviving Death and found it
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interesting, but I didn't know
if I believed it kind of thing.
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Like it's one just one of those
felt like a pop culture thing to
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me.
And so, yeah, but it was really
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interesting to kind of really
dig into it and do a deep dive
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into the subject matter and
learn more about it and, and
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kind of realize I was kind of
wrong in my initial skeptical
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assessment of of what this this
is that people are having
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happened to them.
That's, that's wild because one
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of the first things that Doctor
Jeffrey Long touches on his book
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is the what, what he refers to
as the Oprah effect, because she
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basically polarized the, the,
the topic of near death
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experiences.
And after that, more and more
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people started coming forward.
And then that could either mean
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one or two things.
It could mean that people are,
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you know, wanting to tell their
story and, and they're not so
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afraid of the ridicule that
comes with it because they see
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how accepting the, the stories
are, how interested people are
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in or they're creating them.
So that was one of the, that's
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one of the big skeptic point of
point of point of views on the,
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on the whole near death
experience.
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But sort of like you, I also
went into the near death
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experience.
I started off, like I said,
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reading your book, right?
It's something that's been on
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the, the, the docket for a long
time that I was eventually going
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to cover.
And I read your book and I was
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like, hmm, there's some really
interesting stuff.
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So I got a few books that you
referenced in your book because
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I wanted to see where you got
your research from.
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And I think I bought 3 books and
then I bought two more books off
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of another book I read and then
another book off another book I
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read.
And, and now I have seven or
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eight of them.
And the, the farther I went down
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this rabbit hole, the more I
started to really think to
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myself, I even pulled Jake aside
one night and I was like, dude,
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there's something to this.
It's freaking wild.
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And, and I mean, I don't, I
don't know, I, I don't get into
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the spiritual side of a lot of
stuff, but this really, really
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opened my eyes.
And I told him and I said, man,
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I think there's something.
I think there's something.
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Glad it was something I've been
telling you about Jesus for four
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years now.
Finally he just starts looking
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into Ndes and he's just like,
there's something else out
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there.
I'm like, yeah, to kind of
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figure like, well, good, good.
Whatever works, man.
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You know, it's funny them
calling it near death
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experiences.
It should be like back from the
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dead experiences because I mean,
I've had a near death death
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experience.
I I almost stepped off a curb,
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hesitated for a second.
A semi truck just blasted
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through a red light right in
front of me.
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Would have just, I would have
been done right.
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But so from my perspective, I've
never really put much weight
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into these Ndes 'cause I'm just
like, yeah, who hasn't almost
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died?
I didn't come out of my body
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when I did it right Type stuff
like it wasn't like, you know,
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some weird hypersense of
awareness.
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But getting into it over the
last couple weeks, cause Jeremy
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talked to me and, and everything
saying that he had a complete
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perspective shift in like a way
of living shift because of his
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research in Ndes that, you know,
it really touched him and
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impacted him.
And I was like, for people like
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having almost having accidents,
like, what are you talking
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about?
And so I, I started getting into
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it and it was pretty wild seeing
things like verifiably dead for
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like an hour and a half type
people like flatlined in the
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ICU.
They're like zipping them up in
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the bag type stuff, right?
Transporting them to the morgue
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and they wake up out of that
sort of stuff.
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And having not just the people
interviewed, but also the
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doctors and saying like, you
know what the doctors were doing
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at the time.
Or like a kid that that died on
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the operating table that, you
know, not only saw his dad
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screaming out to God in the
closet, but also said, Hey, I
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met my sister who was from a
miscarriage they had had years
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before and they're not going to
tell their four year old son
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that, you know, oh, you would
have had a sister, but she's
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dead now, right Type stuff.
And so getting into that and
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being like, oh, wow, there's a
lot here.
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And then like, oh man, I should
look into this too.
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You know, it's pretty crazy.
Well, there's some like we
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interviewed a gal.
Hang on here, I got to remember
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her name.
La La La La La La.
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Sorry guys, it's been a long
time since I actually read my
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own book.
No, you're good.
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You like we'll, you know, just
to tell everybody a little bit
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about what we'll be talking
about tonight.
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Since he's put out this book,
he's basically become Mr.
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Celebrity and he he worked on a
a documentary and book on the
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legend of local Pogo.
So we'll be jumping into that
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later.
That's why he needs a
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refreshment, just so you know.
Thank you for that.
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Lynn Russell, like Lynn Russell
was a researcher and she, she
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told me like there's, there's
people who have been dead for 12
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hours who've come back, right?
Like they are actually not just
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being taken to the morgue,
they've been in the morgue.
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Like rigor mortis is set in and
then they're waking up.
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I mean, she, she did research
into like more than 1500 cases
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all over the world.
So there, there is something to
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this, this phenomenon.
And and it is like I had the
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same experience as you, Jeremy,
by the time I had finished, like
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researching the book and it took
a long time.
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Bogo Pogo book is the only one
that took longer.
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My perception on the whole death
experience has changed a lot,
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you know, to the point where I'm
I there's no doubt that like
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this isn't the end, Like when
you die, that's it's not just
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black and it's over.
Like there's there's things life
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beyond death for sure.
And I agree with yours too,
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Jake.
It should be called the
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surviving death.
Like it's it's people are dead
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like they are they're not like
almost hit by a car or or like,
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you know, boy getting hit by 25
foot beam falling on them.
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They are done like they
flatlined for even. 30.
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Seconds, one minute, you know
what I mean?
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They're, they're done.
And it, it seems that every year
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more people are talking about it
and coming forward with their
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stories.
And there seems to be everyone
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that has these experiences is
changed by it.
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And they're changed for the
better for the most part.
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There's a few where they're,
they're very bad experiences,
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but for the majority of them,
it's a positive.
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They're, they just view the
world differently, life
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differently.
They live freer, they're
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happier.
They all talk about going to a
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place of peace and love and
they're, you know, everything's
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calm.
And that to me was, I thought
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amazing, Especially in a world
where it just seems like there's
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there's not a lot of that going
around right now, right?
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I think it was Doctor Bruce
Grayson.
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I could be misquoting here.
It could have been Jeffrey Long,
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but one of those two did a whole
section on culture, cultural
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influences, and how an NDE is
basically described the same
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throughout time and culture.
You know, we may use different
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words to describe what we're
going through, but if you look
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at the core of what they're
describing, it's basically the
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same thing.
So it's it's absolutely wild
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that no, it's either just a
natural thing, which is another
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big skeptic point of view on
this is that this is just
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something that our brain does as
it's like survival mechanism to
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to make sure that we're not, you
know, freaking out during the
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biggest thing that'll ever
happen to us in life.
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They they even go down to
describing how this could be
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like one last grand finale of
electrical works going on in
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your brain in your memory
section.
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And that's how you get your life
review, you know, quote UN
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quote.
But if you look at like Eegs
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during the time of death there,
there's nothing that, that that
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proves that.
Absolutely nothing.
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In fact, the evidence that we
have disproves that.
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So the fact that we're not going
through that, but yet we're
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still having the same experience
through throughout time because
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we, I mean, we have some, some
really far back documentation, I
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mean, pen and paper going back
to the Roman Empire when the
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printing press was created.
You know, we have documentation
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of Ndes.
If you go to places of
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hieroglyphs like ancient China
or Egypt, ancient Mexico, you
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see some references to Ndes too.
And you could still see things
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such as a tunnel of light
gathering with loved ones, all
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that stuff.
It's, it's incredible,
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absolutely incredible stuff.
It is and I, I wanted to get the
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skeptical point in there.
Like I talked to a physicist
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named Lawrence Ward and he he
brought up the same thing, but
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you know that it's the brain
shutting down and everything
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coming to an end in your body as
a way to explain it because they
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have, we can't measure
consciousness once a person's
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like out basically like, so
there's an argument about is it
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your consciousness just shutting
down or, or is it more?
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But I, I like even his, he kind
of brings up the point that even
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if it's, he doesn't believe that
in near death experiences are
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happening, but he still sees it
as a positive because it, it,
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it, there's, there's
spirituality to life.
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Like he doesn't think people are
like dead when it's happening,
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but it's, it's having a positive
effect on people.
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And I think regardless of where
you stand on it, that should be
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the big take away.
This is not a, even though
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you're, we are so scared of
death in our society and in our
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culture, we don't even have
funerals anymore.
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Like, you know what I mean?
Like they're called celebrations
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of life.
Like we are avoiding this topic
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like the plague.
But as you said, Jeremy, it is
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the biggest thing that's gonna
happen to us and it happens to
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everyone.
And I think, you know, we need
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00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,440
to start looking at it as not
this bad thing.
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00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,400
It's it's a positive thing.
It's just the end of one thing.
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00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,360
Yeah.
Moving on to something else.
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00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,160
We gotta start getting glad like
doing shows like this that you
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00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,040
you're keeping, you're getting
that conversation going with
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00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,400
people and your listeners are
gonna hear it.
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And hopefully it just starts,
gets people changing the way
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they they view death.
We shouldn't view it as this big
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negative.
It's it's it's an inevitability.
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Yeah.
And it's a natural part of the
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process.
And it's not bad.
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I think that comes with a lot of
what's going on in the cultural
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aspect today and people's
beliefs on things.
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00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,280
It seems to be a tremendous
amount of like rampant
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narcissism where it's all about
me and me getting as much as I
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00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,480
want because this is all I have
left.
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00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,280
And after this, there's nothing.
And that puts a lot of fear in
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people because it's like, well,
you know, I'm wasting time
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because after this there's
nothing.
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00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,720
But then, you know, you, you
think about the inevitable end,
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whenever it might be.
I mean, for some of us, it's
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surrounded by our family members
in a hospital bed, you know, or,
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or in, you know, elderly care or
something like that, you know,
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assisted living, whatever.
Some of us is getting slammed by
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00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,640
a car on the way to work.
It's just, you know, it, it
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00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,200
could happen at any time in any
number of ways.
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00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:40,000
And if you just wrap it up in
your head that this is that's it
288
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,400
and nothing's after that, You
know, I think, I think that that
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00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,600
in itself could be pretty scary
because all we know is this.
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00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,000
All we know is consciousness.
All we know is like is I'm here.
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00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,680
I'm touching the desk, right?
I, I exist and not having this
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00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,800
anymore is, is pretty
terrifying.
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00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,840
But even if it was like if you
took the religious aspect out of
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00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,920
that and you just said, you know
what, you know, some skeptics
295
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,880
would say of just like it's your
brain's final moments and all
296
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,520
that sort of stuff.
If that was, I don't believe
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00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,560
that's the case as a Christian
guy, but if it was, at least we
298
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,360
would have that because it
wouldn't just be screaming
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00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,040
anxiety into nothingness, right?
It would be your brain doing its
300
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,280
very best to calm you and relax
you and ease you into, you know,
301
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,040
nothing or whatever, right?
Which would be in itself just,
302
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,320
you know, I'm gonna use the word
miracle.
303
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,120
But you know, it would be like,
Oh well, thank goodness, you
304
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,640
know, But yeah, it's, it's
definitely an interesting topic.
305
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,360
There's definitely a lot of
like, I think that the cultural
306
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:56,920
aspect of it too, going past
just religious boundaries or,
307
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:04,000
you know, some, I don't know,
like, like you might find say,
308
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,880
like sleep paralysis.
Sleep paralysis seems to change
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00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,319
when it comes to different
cultures around the world, or at
310
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,720
least what they say about it.
It like kind of varies somewhat,
311
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,359
but this topic seems to have way
more parallels than that, which
312
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,640
leads me to believe that's more
of a real thing.
313
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,319
Like not just, you know, not
saying people don't experience
314
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,480
stuff during sleep paralysis,
but you know what I'm saying.
315
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,880
The thing with the thing.
It's consistent.
316
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,080
Like it it it's consistent.
There is the tunnel of light.
317
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,400
There is at the end.
There's like at least one loved
318
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,440
one or someone that you're
familiar with there.
319
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,040
There are other beings.
There's a sense of peace.
320
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,200
There's usually something
speaking to you, be it the the
321
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,440
figure you see or just this
voice talking to you.
322
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,680
And there's this feeling of
oneness with everything around
323
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,120
you.
And then there is the life
324
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:56,600
review.
Like quite often you go like
325
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,320
there's that life review where
you can go through it.
326
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,880
And what, what's really
interesting, like, like they're
327
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,520
talking with Scott Taylor, like
he's talks about like not only
328
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720
is there this life review, you
can see these points where
329
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,320
you've impacted people and you
feel kind of what they've felt.
330
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,400
So you've seen the bits where
you've been this asshole.
331
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,600
And there's also an opportunity
to correct that within that
332
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,160
moment.
Like it's it's, it's, it's, it
333
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,720
seems far out there, but more
than one person is talking about
334
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,920
it.
It's not like one wing not
335
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,600
having this experience, like
you're hearing the hundreds of
336
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,920
thousands of these cases that
are exactly the same.
337
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:33,720
Yeah, and it's, it's wild
because we'll, we'll just stick
338
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,560
on the life review for a minute.
I, I, I have so many points to
339
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,080
go over my head.
It's crazy right now.
340
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:45,320
But like the the life review you
have, like you said, you're able
341
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,280
to see, and this has been
reported by a lot of different
342
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,480
people.
You can see not only your point
343
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,960
of view, but the point of view
of everybody involved.
344
00:18:53,360 --> 00:19:00,280
So I think it was who was it it,
I want to say it was Raymond
345
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,920
Moody, Doctor Raymond Moody who
who had this example of the
346
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,520
grocery store clerk, right?
So you have this new clerk and
347
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,040
he's, you know, a little
nervous.
348
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,680
The first job, you were an
asshole to him.
349
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,680
You're like, well, you know
what, dude, you suck.
350
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,800
And, you know, thanks for my
cash.
351
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,120
You know, you gave me an extra
5.
352
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,680
I'm not gonna let you know, fuck
you.
353
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,720
I'm gonna move on.
But then you, when you go to
354
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,400
that moment in your life review,
you not only get to see that
355
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280
point of view from your point of
view, but also from their point
356
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,560
of view, from the people
watching you's point of view,
357
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,000
from, you know, any point of
view that you could possibly
358
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,560
think of.
You're seeing that happen.
359
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:46,000
You're seeing how what you did
influence that person at that
360
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,320
point.
And not only at that point for,
361
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,160
for, for, you know, how you
influenced the rest of their
362
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,360
lives.
You know, you see how this
363
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:00,600
person, you know, went home and
kicked his dog and and you know
364
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,200
that dog had.
Internal bleeding and ended up
365
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,000
passing away and that that guys
kid was really sad and grew up
366
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,800
and and you know hated life and
had issues throughout their
367
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,280
lives and all just because of
that little thing that happened
368
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720
and you see that you know, sorry
about that example.
369
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,520
It's kind of brutal, but, you
know, just to kind.
370
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,200
Of well, it's true, though.
Like, yeah, it is a good point
371
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,960
to make.
And I think it's something like
372
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,920
you were saying, like Jake was
saying, like we were we're in
373
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,080
this narcissistic mindset right
now.
374
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,880
We're talking about me, me, me.
And actually, no, it's not.
375
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,000
It's how we interact with
everyone around us.
376
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,160
And everything we do impacts
other people.
377
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,560
And we need to stop behaving
this way.
378
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,840
And these things are almost like
an awakening for those people
379
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,720
that have them.
Sorry, Jake.
380
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,200
No, it's, it's funny you say
that Jeremy, because I've been
381
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,000
saying for a while now that I'm
not a big coincidence guy.
382
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,960
And I believe that there are
things like divine meetings and
383
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,240
appointments and things like
that.
384
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,240
Or you're supposed to talk to
someone at this point for XY and
385
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,360
Z.
Maybe, maybe it's that Co worker
386
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,480
that you just happened.
And this has happened to me,
387
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,720
especially when I was in the
Navy, actually really like right
388
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,840
before I got out.
But you know, you just happened
389
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,720
to take that extra 5 minutes on
a break, even though you're not
390
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,420
really supposed to.
You happen to see that one Co
391
00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:21,240
worker that looks really down
and depressed.
392
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,880
Turns out they're thinking about
going home and, and just taking
393
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,920
themselves out.
And you're able to intervene in
394
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,040
that moment, right?
You can consider that chance.
395
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,800
You could say it's coincidence.
You could say it's divine
396
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,520
intervention or divine
appointments or whatever you
397
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,200
want to say.
And I like to think that, you
398
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,880
know, let's just say like any of
those movies where there's like
399
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,720
they're hunting the, the killer
or whatever it is, and they got
400
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,240
all the, the yarn all over the
wall and all the pictures and
401
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,720
everything.
And this links to that and this
402
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,840
links to that.
I was like, wouldn't it be cool
403
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,440
if you got there and God was
like, all right, so here's you
404
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,160
and here's where you, you ran
into this person.
405
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800
You said that one thing and then
they branched off over here, you
406
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,320
know, and did this sort of
thing.
407
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,960
And I've said that for a couple
of years now.
408
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,800
It's just like, you know, 'cause
you never, you never know,
409
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,360
right?
You never know what your impact
410
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,200
does.
You know, you let's just say you
411
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,160
try to be the best person you
can or the kindest person or
412
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,480
whatever it is.
You never know if that one pay
413
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,640
it forward moment did anything
in that person's life or if they
414
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,920
carried it over into the next
person's life or whatever,
415
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,880
right.
And so when you said that,
416
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,560
Jeremy, in the, in the episode,
and I was like, wow, that's kind
417
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,960
of sort of what I was just, you
know, thinking about.
418
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,160
And, and just right here, it's
like, how did that moment, that
419
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,280
one little blip in our, our
timeline impact everything else
420
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,120
around us, right?
That one person you flipped off
421
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,120
on the freeway 'cause you're
just like all mad at traffic and
422
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,160
stuff.
How did that affect that person
423
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,360
who might have been having a
much worse day than you, right
424
00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,880
Type stuff or, or vice versa.
You know, you, you show kindness
425
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,440
to someone that's, you know,
needs it at that moment.
426
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,520
And you'll never know you know.
Or at least you think you'll
427
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,360
never know.
Yeah, there's, there's a lot
428
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,200
here.
And I'll, I'll, I'll tell the
429
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,200
listeners one thing.
I'm petrified of death.
430
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Like petrified of it.
Anybody that knows me in person
431
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,320
knows there's two things that
literally scare the shit out of
432
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,640
me.
Death and snakes.
433
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,880
I'm gonna hate snakes.
Snakes.
434
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,520
I definitely snakes.
I hate snakes.
435
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,400
I'm gonna hide A snake in his
sucker.
436
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,640
And.
A rubber snake.
437
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,000
And I'm gonna die anyways.
You get it both wrapped up at
438
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,400
once.
I can't say that this research
439
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,280
has made me comfortable with the
concept of death, but it at
440
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,160
least makes me think of it in a
different light.
441
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,280
You know, I like when I say that
I'm petrified to death.
442
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,200
I mean, I've spent multiple
nights in my life laying in bed
443
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,880
thinking about oblivion.
You know, the what is it going
444
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,720
to be like when I'm gone, you
know, kind of stuff.
445
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,480
And I mean, I, I suffer myself.
I suffer from stress or
446
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,240
depression, anxiety and PTSD,
and those nights where I'm
447
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040
laying in bed thinking about
this stuff does not help
448
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,800
whatsoever.
And I've done this numerous
449
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,760
times throughout my life, from
when I was a kid all the way up
450
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,320
until the current day.
But this topic alone has really
451
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,800
done a lot to help me.
It's, it's, it's funny, 'cause
452
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,840
like I'll lay in bed now and
I'll, you know, I'll get, get in
453
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,240
my fields and, and start
thinking about that.
454
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,080
I don't know why I do it, how I
do it, or you know, what
455
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,080
triggers it, but it just
happens.
456
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,880
And I will grab my phone and
I'll look up NDE experiences and
457
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,360
I'll just read through people's
experiences and you just start
458
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,720
seeing the consistencies through
them.
459
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,080
I mean, every once in a while
you get one that's like way out
460
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,680
of left field and you're like,
OK, well, skip, let me go to the
461
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,920
next one.
And then you look, you start
462
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,360
seeing the consistencies and
then you start seeing that, you
463
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,200
know, you start feeling like,
man, maybe there is something
464
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,920
after this.
Maybe, you know, maybe I'm so
465
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,040
stressed out about nothing.
And it's it's a it's a nice
466
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,080
therapy.
And I guess that's where I'm
467
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,360
trying to get to is that this,
this subject alone was a really
468
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,000
nice therapy for me.
And it gave me a tool that I
469
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,920
could use.
So like I told, like I told
470
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,240
Jake, like there has never been
a subject that has touched me or
471
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,200
changed me so much like this
subject.
472
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,800
I love this subject.
And I I told the the travellers,
473
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,960
I don't know what episode I did
it on as as of right now, at
474
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,800
this point during recording, we
all on dropped part one, Part 2
475
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,480
will be coming out next.
But by the time you get this
476
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,400
recording, both of that have
been dropped out.
477
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,960
So forgive me whichever one it
was, but I could very well see
478
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,000
in a part three, possibly a part
4 coming out of of narrative
479
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,200
experiences at some point.
And that was all kicked off
480
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,360
thanks to Jason's book.
So thanks, Jason.
481
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,640
Well, you're very welcome.
I'm glad I, I look at the book
482
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,960
'cause it was an introduction to
me.
483
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,960
It's almost more of an
introduction to the subject
484
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,360
matter.
I think hopefully for people
485
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,120
like it's a good way to kind of
kind of get into it and then
486
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:29,080
want to ask those questions and
read more 'cause that's kind of
487
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,640
what by the time I was done,
like it's one I'd, I'd
488
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,400
eventually like to write a
follow up to 'cause there is so
489
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,960
much, I feel like I just kind of
scratch the surface with a few
490
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,640
like anecdotal stories and you
know, the little bit of
491
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,440
skepticism.
And then like we talking to
492
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,240
Jolene, who did like she was the
trauma counselor to talk about
493
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,040
why we feel it's important to
believe that there's more.
494
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,280
Right?
Like there's so much here.
495
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,160
And it is such AI think it can
be, it can be a spiritual topic
496
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,280
for people who aren't spiritual.
Like I think it can kind of, you
497
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,360
know, they may not be like
religious, but it, there's,
498
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,600
there's AI think it can
introduce them to the concept of
499
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,600
even just spirituality in
general.
500
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,160
And I think that to me is really
important 'cause we need
501
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800
something.
Everyone needs that kind of in
502
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,000
there.
Like I too, Jeremy, I've got
503
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,960
depression, anxiety, PTSD, you
know, and you need something
504
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,240
more to kind of hang on to than
just reality sometimes, right?
505
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,400
Like I, I too was terrified of
the subject.
506
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,880
I think what scared me more
'cause I, my dad died when I was
507
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:26,840
young.
So I was kind of being
508
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,160
introduced to it far younger
than a lot of people were.
509
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,240
And then what scares me now is
the is like that happening, like
510
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,760
me dying and then 'cause I saw
what it did to my mom and it did
511
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,560
to me.
Like, so having that happen to
512
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,160
my wife and to my kid and I
don't want to put them through
513
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,760
that.
And that's almost what scares me
514
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,200
more right than anything else.
Yeah.
515
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,080
So it's, it's a, it's a tough
subject.
516
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,600
And it's a subject that, like I
said earlier, we we don't, we
517
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,160
tend to tap dance around.
Yeah.
518
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,360
I think, I think Jeremy might
tick some people off.
519
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,440
I don't really care.
I tend to do that anyway.
520
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:08,000
But I think given the evidence
of through NDE research, really
521
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840
digging into it, seeing like
what Jason was talking about 12
522
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,840
hours dead, like like rigor
mortis frozen in the morgue type
523
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,640
stuff and waking up.
If you actually start digging
524
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,360
into it and you really get into
evidence of it and not just like
525
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:25,160
someone said this is what
happened to them, but there's,
526
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,840
you know, medical reviews done
by it, There's interviews with
527
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,360
the doctors.
They're confirming it.
528
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,320
They're confirming what the
person said they saw.
529
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,760
You know, how would they know
that sort of stuff?
530
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,560
You know, they were in the
deepest coma we could put them
531
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,360
in while they're we're doing
this brain surgery on them
532
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,320
because of an aneurysm, right
type stuff.
533
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,120
Like there's no way they would
know this sort of stuff.
534
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,480
I think you'd be, you'd have to
be a complete and utter fool if
535
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,520
you could look at that sort of
stuff and be like, yeah, there.
536
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,200
It's all, it's all baloney.
Yeah.
537
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,920
No, exactly.
There's, there's, yeah.
538
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,200
I mean, it's just.
Evidence there.
539
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,760
It's not anecdal.
Anecdotal evidence.
540
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,120
There's hard evidence.
And it's, and it, like we said
541
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,160
in the very beginning, it's not
just Western society.
542
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,960
It's not just, you know, the
Indians, it's not just the
543
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,360
Hindus, the, you know, it's not
just the Buddhists.
544
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,800
It's not just, you know, the
Christians or whatever it is.
545
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,000
It's, it's just parallels,
pretty much the same story all
546
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880
the way through, all around the
world, every single continent,
547
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,800
people are experiencing the same
thing.
548
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,040
And if you could look at that
and just be like rubbish, be
549
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
like, well, you might be an
idiot.
550
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,240
I I was surprised too how the
the the reincarnation bit played
551
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,080
into it too.
And that was kind of just a
552
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,080
something that was thrown my way
when I was lining up interviews.
553
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,400
But it was interesting how that
there's sort of enough evidence
554
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360
there too that people are coming
across to support that people
555
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,520
have kind of done this before in
in some way, shape or form.
556
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,360
I found that kind of
fascinating.
557
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,760
And it kind of get then gets you
thinking about the whole concept
558
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,480
of timelines and string theory
and time is actually a flat
559
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,760
circle and not like, you know, a
chronological series of events.
560
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,360
Yeah.
And I found that kind of threw
561
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,560
me for a loop that that kind of
ended up in there.
562
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,960
But it did just sort of worked
as part of the narrative of
563
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560
these experiences that people
are having, because there's,
564
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,720
there's a lot of talk, like I
know Scott Taylor talked about
565
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,400
it and so did betting out some
bugging the kid when they're
566
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,040
talking about the, the
reincarnation bit.
567
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,440
But it all of this exists on a
kind of a different frequency.
568
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,160
These all these different kind
of possibilities.
569
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,800
And people are talking about
being able to like through
570
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,880
meditation vibrate.
I, I don't, I don't know, that
571
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,600
seems far out there.
But if we're talking about
572
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,040
living after death, that you can
kind of almost vibrate to these
573
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
different planes of existence
that fit within that like
574
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,080
energy.
It's all, we're all made of
575
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,800
energy.
And so it's playing around with
576
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,240
that energy where you can see a
look at like a past life or even
577
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,760
go to that place where you go
when you have these, these death
578
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,040
experiences.
I don't know, I, I, I found that
579
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,960
to be kind of mind blowing a bit
too and, and not out of the
580
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,080
realm of belief or possibility.
I don't know.
581
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,000
What did you think, Jeremy, when
you kind of read that stuff?
582
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,440
So I, I, in my presentations, I
touched slightly, like very
583
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,640
slightly.
I, I mentioned reincarnation,
584
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,120
but that's like when I say that
I'm, there's a third and 4th
585
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800
episode here eventually that is
something.
586
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,360
But I did, however, talk about
multiple timelines and how.
587
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,120
And actually, I think I want to
say that I quoted you in your
588
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,560
book about Deja Vu, about
potentially being an answer Deja
589
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,600
Vu.
Because if you go back to a
590
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,000
little while ago when we were
talking about the life review,
591
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,440
there was a there was a concept
that I that we missed on that we
592
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,320
haven't talked touched on yet
today.
593
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:51,080
And that is seeing it in
different play outs, like going
594
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,320
down different paths.
So instead of yelling at that,
595
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,560
that new kid, you were kind to
him and you said, hey man,
596
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,560
thanks.
You're going to do great, right?
597
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,600
And you walked up and, and none
of that bad shit happened.
598
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,200
And in fact that that kid went
to, you know, that he took that
599
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,440
confidence that you gave him
and, and just became an all
600
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,480
around All Star in the grocery
store, which gave him the the
601
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,680
juice he needed to become ACEO
one day or an entrepreneur.
602
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:26,320
You know, and it's, it's that
kind of stuff where how, if, if
603
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,000
you're, if you're having your
life review, how do you have
604
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,200
that?
How is that existing?
605
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,560
How, how is there a record of
how that could, how that turned
606
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,320
out?
And that's when you get into
607
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320
timeline conversations and you
get into the multiverses and
608
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:50,320
parallel worlds and the
potential for how Deja Vu exists
609
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,880
in our life, you know, because
at some point, you know, and,
610
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,240
and we're kind of getting a
little bit off topic here, but
611
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,760
when timelines line up slightly
or temporarily is, you know,
612
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000
when they say or not, not they,
because there's a lot of
613
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,360
different ways to, to explain
Deja Vu.
614
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,880
But one of the explanations is
that timelines line up and you,
615
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,760
you feel like you, you've lived
it before, where in fact you're
616
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,480
just viewing it twice.
You're viewing it from your
617
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,360
timeline in another person's
timeline.
618
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,880
And the simple fact that when
people go and have these life
619
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:35,840
reviews, they're, they're seeing
it from not just different
620
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,840
perspectives, but from different
perspectives across a different
621
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,040
timeline.
And it, it's very interesting.
622
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Like I like when I say I've got
another three, I got episode
623
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,120
three and four, like ready to
roll, man.
624
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,120
I've got more stuff I can talk
about.
625
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,520
So eventually it's gonna happen.
Travelers just need to I need to
626
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,000
spend some time on some other
subjects.
627
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,680
I can't spend too long.
Coming back to it.
628
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,680
I will.
Yeah, I will, in fact.
629
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Wrapped up in other stuff.
Oh, I'm right now I'm I'm
630
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,880
wrapped up in Elmwood.
That's my number one priority.
631
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,400
And that's kinda to to be
honest.
632
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,199
Everybody listening right now.
You guys wanna hear why I, I
633
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,040
didn't do a part three and part
4 together with this?
634
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,360
Yeah, you can blame CJ and Jeff.
Those douche bags, they they
635
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,880
bailed out.
They're just affecting your
636
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,800
timeline.
They did.
637
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,080
They're just bailing on you.
They bailed out.
638
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,920
Can it cause your career to
plummet?
639
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,360
And I'm.
Gonna see in their life review.
640
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,480
This is why Jeremy became
homeless.
641
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,360
They, they were supposed to come
out with two episodes for me and
642
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,080
both of them bailed and said
that they couldn't do it.
643
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,920
So I had to, I had to throw out
some NDE stuff before it was
644
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000
really ready because honestly, I
was, I was building up episodes
645
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,520
three, episode 3 for sure.
And then I was going to probably
646
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,280
scrounge together an episode 4
on just the loose ends.
647
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,280
But yeah, no great stuff.
I don't want to spend too much
648
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,600
longer on this Jason, because I
want to get into the rest of the
649
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,040
stuff, the other stuff.
Whatever, man, whatever you want
650
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,400
to do.
I mean, we could talk, like you
651
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,600
say, Ndes for like hours.
Again, there's so much material
652
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,600
to it.
Yeah, yeah, it's incredible.
653
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,080
It's incredible.
And you know, another thing that
654
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,400
I didn't get to talk about
during these two episodes of the
655
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,960
Ndes was to get more into the
medical side of it, like the
656
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,880
actual science research, the
scientific research and stuff
657
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,880
like you had mentioned in your
book.
658
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,840
I can't remember the name of the
researcher, but they, Doctor
659
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,560
Bruce Grayson invented the
Grayson scale and someone,
660
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,960
someone created a way to
modernize that.
661
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,760
And the, the issue with the
Grayson scale is that it's a
662
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,920
multiple choice thing, right?
So you can create false memories
663
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,680
in somebody or give somebody the
tools to create a false memory
664
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,960
by giving them the options to
choose from.
665
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Where in your book you
highlighted somebody else's
666
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,400
experiment or research, where
instead of giving them that,
667
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,080
they gave them a blank piece of
paper and they said write down
668
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,800
your research, write down your
NDE.
669
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,640
And then they fed that
information into AI and AI.
670
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,080
The AI was able to pick out all
the patterns and guess what?
671
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,960
Commonality of words.
There's Andrea Sodu, Dr. Andrea
672
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Sodu.
Yeah.
673
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,200
And he, they the commonality of
words.
674
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,040
And that's where like, like the,
I can't remember the exact
675
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640
percentage, but it was like, you
know, 75 or 80% positive
676
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,680
experiences, right?
Like, you know, light, love, all
677
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,360
these words.
They'd look at the common words
678
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,480
that would come up in all of
them.
679
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,920
It was fascinating.
Even he knew someone, a
680
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,240
paramedic friend of his that
electrocuted himself and it had
681
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:50,000
a near death experience as well
and came back and shared that
682
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,280
with him too.
And that was plot.
683
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,840
And he he so does an incredible
story setting these this being a
684
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,360
real thing.
Yeah, and and not only, you
685
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,960
know, are you seeing these
commonalities with
686
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,080
terminologies, right?
Because to kind of clear up a
687
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,800
little bit on his, on his
research was, you know, they may
688
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,120
not always say tunnel, they,
they can say words like hallway
689
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,520
Rd. path, right?
But you know, where other people
690
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,520
may separate those, those
titles, it could just be the way
691
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,240
that they're describing the same
thing.
692
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,560
So this AI was able to clump
those together and say, OK, out
693
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,320
of all of these, 75% of them
described some, some pathway
694
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,200
that you go, go on.
But another interesting thing is
695
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,080
that in my research or in my
first episode I believe it was,
696
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,480
we talked, I talked about 9
characteristics or 12
697
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,840
characteristics, sorry, that all
Ndes seem to have at least one
698
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,560
of.
And that was outlined by Doctor
699
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,720
Jeffrey Long in his book
Evidence of the Afterlife.
700
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,680
Very, very good book.
But you see the parallels
701
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,200
between what you pointed out
with Doctor Soto, you said Yep,
702
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,920
with Doctor Soto's research.
Still the same elements that I
703
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,760
that I pointed out from Doctor
Long in episode one of Ndes is
704
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,920
still being reflected, such as
the life review, the the
705
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,920
pathway, the the out of body
experience, the increase of your
706
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,680
senses.
You know, more powerful senses,
707
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,160
the immediate knowledge of
things.
708
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,240
But I'll, I'll, you know, all of
them.
709
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,360
I, I, I can't damn them all off
the top of my head.
710
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,480
But yeah, absolutely incredible
stuff.
711
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,920
Oh yeah.
But.
712
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,040
Coming forward different too,
that's the other part.
713
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,600
That's very consistent as
everybody comes back different.
714
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,840
That was his 12th point, was
that you come back most of the
715
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,920
time.
It is a very, very positive
716
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,880
influence on your life.
So yeah, very, very good stuff.
717
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,440
Do you have anything else you
want to talk about tonight about
718
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,960
ND ES?
I, I think like, like, I mean,
719
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,120
like you said, we could go into
it.
720
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,680
I think the, the only other one
that really stands out for me
721
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160
other than like Angela's sort of
man in black story is the Scott
722
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Taylor's where he was.
He didn't die, but someone else
723
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,520
did and he got taken along for
that journey.
724
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,000
I thought that was, that was
more unique.
725
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,880
I think it's more.
Of a rarity, the shared
726
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,480
experience.
The shared death experience,
727
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,680
that one I thought was
interesting.
728
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,600
That's another one that I, that
I left out of my my first two
729
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,600
episodes that CJ and Jeff robbed
everybody of was that I was
730
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,520
gonna get into.
Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna blame it
731
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,440
all on them.
All of it.
732
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,800
You hear this, scumbags?
It's all your fault.
733
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,480
No, I, I love them.
They I I've I'm happy to cover.
734
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,640
But yeah, every hero needs an an
the Nemesis.
735
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,760
That's right.
It's just otherwise, what's the
736
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,520
point?
Right.
737
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,800
So.
Mine is CJ and Jeff.
738
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,080
Right now it's them.
Yes.
739
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,320
Yeah, No, absolutely.
Jason, we might have to get you
740
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,280
back on at some point,
especially after I end up
741
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,040
dropping part three and part 4.
Sure, that way we can continue
742
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,600
this conversation, but until
then?
743
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,080
We are reread my book beforehand
off the top my.
744
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,520
Hey man, Jeremy, I feel
blindsided here.
745
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,560
This is gonna go down in my life
review.
746
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,800
You better.
If you're gonna have me on this
747
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,320
episode, I don't say, hey, this
is about Ndes.
748
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,360
Say hey, this is about Jason's
book that he wrote about Ndes.
749
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,280
So I can at least be well versed
in that.
750
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,760
I mean, if you listen to my
episodes, I quoted Jason quite a
751
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,040
bit in those episodes.
Yeah, that was today.
752
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,280
You know what?
I don't even know how to read.
753
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,520
Like I have to wait for the
audiobook to come out and all
754
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,920
that.
You're lucky you can just put it
755
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,360
on and listen to it at work.
I'll listen to it at well, doing
756
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,760
my job, and then I'll actually
have something to say about what
757
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,920
he wrote.
Every hero needs a nemesis.
758
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,440
I don't know, I heard that.
I heard that somewhere.
759
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,040
But since we are doing this on
YouTube, here's the book.
760
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,640
It's called Dying Light by Jason
Hewlett and his buddy Peter
761
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Wren.
So by all means, go ahead and
762
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,040
check that out.
Jason, you have anything that
763
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,280
you want to put out about this
book really quick before we move
764
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,440
on?
Nope.
765
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,000
That I think we we know.
We touched on all we can at this
766
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:24,680
point.
All.
767
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,840
Right.
Well, one that I did not do
768
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,440
research on to because the book
isn't out yet and neither is the
769
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,880
documentary.
You are getting into the world
770
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,840
of the cryptids, especially in
up there in the great White N
771
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,320
Specifically one that Jake and I
had covered with our good
772
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,280
friend, mutual friend, Phantom
Fill.
773
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,160
Ogo Ogo, you are.
You are diving deep into the
774
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,160
waters of Lake Okanagan,
Okanagan, Okanagan.
775
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,960
Okanagan.
Okanagan, yeah.
776
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,520
Yeah, yeah.
So bring us into that How?
777
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,800
How'd you get that?
Well, that started, I started
778
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,920
researching a book on Ogo Pogo.
It was like early, early last
779
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,640
year, so early 2023, just 'cause
I, I've, I live like 2 hours
780
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,960
away from Kelowna, right?
I've been there, I've seen the
781
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,960
statue, I've heard the stories
my whole life.
782
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,600
I wanted to kind of write a book
about it then it was originally
783
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,280
going to be for Beyond the Fray
because I had one more book to
784
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,200
write in the contract thing.
And this is a great subject and
785
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:24,920
Pete wasn't really interested in
doing it.
786
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,800
So I was like, I'll do it by
myself because I why not?
787
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,880
And then literally like a week
after I started researching the
788
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,880
book, I was talking with Eli
Watson, of course, with Small
789
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,640
Town Monsters.
And at the time he was doing a
790
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,920
show called Mysteries and
Monsters.
791
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,680
And he's like, we're all coming
up to Canada because we're going
792
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,640
to do on the betrayal of
Bigfoot, the origin out of
793
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,480
Harrison Hot Springs, which is
kind of really where the
794
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,040
Sasquatch story started with
John Green's research, etcetera.
795
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,640
And and he's like Seth, Seth
Breedlove is going to give me a
796
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,840
few days.
I can go off and kind of do
797
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,240
whatever I want.
He's like, I want to do
798
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,880
something on Ogo Pogo, do you
want to help out?
799
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,800
And I didn't even think about
it.
800
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,200
I'm like, yes, I said, because
I'm writing this book.
801
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,760
So it's like if there's like you
said, Jake, there are no
802
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,400
coincidences.
Like I've started writing a book
803
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,560
about Ogo Pogo.
Someone comes up and wants to do
804
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,520
something on Ogo Pogo so.
Sure.
805
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,400
That happened in May of last
year.
806
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,520
Eli and I spent like 2 1/2 days
in Kelowna doing this
807
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,600
documentary that we thought was
just going to be a YouTube
808
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,520
episode of the time.
And I continued writing my book
809
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,560
and I ended up being interviewed
for On the Trail of Bigfoot, the
810
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,480
origin with that too.
So I got to know the small town
811
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,440
monsters folks and the book
wrapped up.
812
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,160
I finished writing it in like
October and Eli and I were
813
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,560
talking.
I'm like, Eli the book has
814
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,800
become like, it's not this just
a bunch of different stories
815
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,520
about Ogo Pogo.
Like it's become a whole.
816
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,400
It's something else completely.
And it's something I don't think
817
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,640
beyond the phrase going to be
into.
818
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,440
And Eli is like, yeah, we should
talk to Seth about it because
819
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,240
they have their publishing arm.
Long story short, I was able to
820
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,440
get out of this beyond the
freight contract and Small Town
821
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,520
Monsters picked up the book.
And so they decided that instead
822
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,200
of that being a YouTube episode,
they were going to make it one
823
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,000
of their feature length
documentaries, which is now
824
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,840
called Cursed Waters, Creature
of Lake Okanogan.
825
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,080
And the book is coming out
called Legend The Legend of Ogo
826
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,840
Pogo, Canada's Loch Ness
Monster, and both drop at
827
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,480
Monster Fest in Canton, OH at
the end of the month.
828
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,920
That's phenomenal.
Good.
829
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,560
Stuff, yeah.
And I, I, I've never had dreamt
830
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,120
that that would even remotely
play out in any way, shape or
831
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,840
form like this.
Especially I've been a like,
832
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,840
I've got a film background.
I love small town monsters.
833
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,040
I think they do kind of the
best, like, Cryptid paranormal
834
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,520
documentaries out there.
And so to be able to have
835
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:29,920
something I've done be a part of
that.
836
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,160
And, you know, and Eli directed
Kirst Waters, but I helped film
837
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,200
it.
I did a lot of the interviews.
838
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,680
I'm interviewed for it.
You know, I was with him through
839
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,560
the whole process of making it,
basically.
840
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,840
And, you know, he was very
gracious to kind of really push
841
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,240
for that, you know, things to
happen.
842
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,360
And Seth really liked the idea
and was excited about it.
843
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:47,200
And.
Yeah.
844
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,600
Man, I'll tell you when I
started Infinite Rabbit Hole,
845
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,320
there was three big names on the
list that I eventually wanted to
846
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,360
have on the show.
Like sometime down the road,
847
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,960
1015 years down the road that,
you know, even today I look out
848
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:01,680
and I'm like, those names are
just too big.
849
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,800
They'll never come on right?
One of them, Seth Breedlove, I I
850
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,360
love his stuff.
What he's done with small town
851
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:17,880
monsters is incredible.
And anybody who is into cryptids
852
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,120
or they've even done UFO stuff
too with small town.
853
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,400
Monsters.
UFO stuff.
854
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,680
Yeah, yeah.
Dog man.
855
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:24,840
Like they're kind of touching on
all that.
856
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,800
You know they just impaired
Mothman.
857
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,240
Was part of the Aaron Aaron
Deese, right?
858
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,000
Just just did the, the, the the
the dog man's he he basically
859
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,480
did a good same concept as you.
They put out a a documentary in
860
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,400
a book, didn't they?
Yeah, Texas dog man triangle.
861
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,320
Yeah, yeah, same kind of thing.
And then his second book,
862
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,840
Hunting Grounds, is all about
the LBL, like the Land between
863
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,760
the Lakes there.
He did just that book just came
864
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,320
out, and that documentary's
coming out pretty quick too, I
865
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:59,080
think.
Yeah, but Seth Breedlove is what
866
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,280
he's done with Small Town
Monsters and that whole crew,
867
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:10,160
Shannon McGraw and and the bunch
are just it it's it changed the
868
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,080
entire landscape of Cryptid
research.
869
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,960
Because a lot of people may not
know this, but if you go and you
870
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,120
look at a documentary that has
any kind of solid production
871
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,080
value to it, it's Small Town
Monsters.
872
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,040
Oh yeah, yeah.
And I mean, their, their stuff
873
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,960
is on, I believe it's on Amazon.
You can, you can rent it on
874
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,160
Amazon mostly.
And their stuff is incredible,
875
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:42,160
the research.
It's they're really good and it
876
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,800
was neat to meet them all
because they're really good
877
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,080
people too.
Like, you know, someone was like
878
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,000
you don't want to meet your
heroes kind of thing in respect,
879
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,720
but it wasn't they're all great.
Like they're they're all all
880
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,280
really good.
And yeah, no, Seth is amazing.
881
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,720
And you should reach out like to
Seth because I'm sure he'd come
882
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:55,760
on.
He's always willing to talk.
883
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,640
I would, I would love to, I
would love to and another one of
884
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,400
another one of the people that
I've always wanted to to
885
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,720
interview with Shannon McGraw.
And I end up going on her show
886
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,800
to tell her about my Bigfoot
experience.
887
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,280
And I got cold feet.
I wanted to ask her to come on
888
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,480
the show.
I wanted to ask her and I got.
889
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,200
She'll do it too, like I
guarantee you.
890
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,440
Like she sounds awesome.
Like.
891
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,240
So I ended up emailing her and I
could only imagine the amount of
892
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,720
of e-mail she has on her inbox.
Probably just got lost amongst
893
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,360
everything else.
But yeah, so anybody listening
894
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,520
to this, yeah, I'm a loser.
And I, I didn't get emailed back
895
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,640
by Sham McGraw, so whatever.
Anyways.
896
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,560
And then just to just to fill in
that whole thing.
897
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,280
The third one is Lauren Coleman.
I would love to get him on show
898
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:43,920
one day too.
That.
899
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,320
'D be awesome.
I've, Yeah, I've never met
900
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Lauren or had the chance to even
to talk to him.
901
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,000
And #4.
Maybe I will.
902
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:56,560
Number four was Jason Hewlett.
And here it is my hero.
903
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,040
So I mean, can you can you talk
about the the documentary in the
904
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,080
book?
And you kind of, yeah.
905
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,960
I can a bit like it's So what we
like, I mean the documentary in
906
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,720
the book kind of take a look.
They it starts looking at things
907
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:17,000
from kind of the historical
perspective and the stories that
908
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,320
everybody knows about Ogo Pogo,
right?
909
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,640
And it is one of the most
documented like lake monsters
910
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,960
out there.
I think in some ways even more
911
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,480
so than than Messi, because look
with Nessie, it's like one
912
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,640
person usually seeing it, but
there's bits worth Ogo Pogo.
913
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,920
There's like a dozen people have
seen it all at the same time,
914
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,480
right.
But what's interesting is that
915
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,760
Ogo Pogo itself is a made-up
word.
916
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,800
It's actually, I'm going to
really butcher it, but it's like
917
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,160
it's Nahayitsu from the West
Bank First Nations.
918
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,480
And for them it is literally
it's a water spirit.
919
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,600
It is the spirit of the lake.
And it's a very important part
920
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,160
of their culture.
And what always happens is US
921
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,200
white people come in and take it
and misconstrue it and make it
922
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,320
into something that it's not.
So Ogopogo, the word came up in
923
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,800
in like the Vernon dance halls
in like the 1920s or 30s, right?
924
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040
And that they made the word up
talking about this silly
925
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,000
creature in the water that plays
the banjo.
926
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,720
And that word actually stuck.
And it's become this big tourism
927
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,280
mascot for Kelowna and the
Okanagan region.
928
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,520
So there's the documentary kind
of becomes about that.
929
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,040
There's two parts to it.
There's this this real, serious,
930
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,680
legitimate water spirit that's a
part of indigenous culture.
931
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,840
And then there's this kind of
derpy cartoon character, but
932
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,360
that also people seem to think
that you have to give sacrifices
933
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,240
to or it'll eat you if you go in
the water, right.
934
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,320
And so it's a lot of the the
documentary in the book become a
935
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:47,560
lot about these two different
things and in a way trying to
936
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,680
explain what it could really be.
And so there's like, you know,
937
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,840
in in the book, I talked to Ken
Gearhard, you know, and Steve
938
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,200
calls about from a more
cryptozoology standpoint.
939
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,280
But then there's also this very
spiritual component to it.
940
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,120
That's more than that.
Yeah.
941
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,120
And there's even a bit of a
conservationist message that
942
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,400
comes into it too, because if
this spirit is like this Fogo
943
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,880
Pogo or Taiitu is, is the lake,
you've got to preserve the lake
944
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,520
and keep it clean and pure.
You know, like it's.
945
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,280
So there's a lot.
That's what I mean.
946
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,880
It became it was more than just
a monster is what the Ogo Pogo
947
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,800
story is.
Lake Okanagan is in a basin,
948
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:24,760
right?
Isn't it?
949
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,960
Well, it is a glacial lake.
It's, it's long, narrow, and it
950
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,280
and Loch Ness are almost within
like just a couple of
951
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,560
geographical points apart if you
look at it on the globe.
952
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,640
And so it, these lakes and most
of the lakes where people have
953
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,720
these sightings all over the
world are the same.
954
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:43,520
They're kind of the same kind of
lake, long, narrow, very deep.
955
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,440
A lot of salmonoid fish in it.
Temperatures are very consistent
956
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,480
and despite what people see when
it comes to like Nasi with the
957
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,920
playasaur, which was like that,
that was a, that was a scam that
958
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,480
that's like that was a fake.
It's not it, it's a very much as
959
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,800
long Serpentine creature.
So is Nasi supposed to be with
960
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,320
like a, a kind of a forked tail,
like a whale's tail and like a
961
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,960
head, like a horse sort of
thing?
962
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,960
And these, you know, champs very
much the same, you know, so it's
963
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,880
it's a very different there's
consistence enough that you from
964
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,720
scientifically, you could say
it's all what we're seeing is
965
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,520
the same species just spread out
across the globe.
966
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:27,040
I know with Loch Ness, gosh, I
want to say it was maybe
967
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:33,280
20/12/20 sixteens, maybe 2016.
They did the Edna, the
968
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,040
environmental DNA on it.
Do you know in the IT came up
969
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,280
inconclusive for anything with
the exception of a few species
970
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,280
of fish and eels, although
sightings continue to happen.
971
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,720
I was just listening to a
listening to an episode recently
972
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:56,440
with Paige daily.
She's the gosh, she runs the
973
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,640
registrar for documented
sightings of Loch Ness or Loch
974
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,320
Ness Monster, rather.
Do you know if there's anything
975
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,040
in the works or has there been
anything done to do the same
976
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:15,320
sort of study in Lake Okanagan?
Not in terms of the E Ed and a
977
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,240
sort of test.
That'd be really cool.
978
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,760
Well, there's a gentleman named
Bill Stasiak who runs it like
979
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,720
it's like Ogo pogoquest.com and
he's you go to that website man,
980
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,760
and it's like got everything you
need to know about Ogo Pogo
981
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,520
right down to sightings.
People can submit their
982
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,560
sightings to the website, right.
And he, he actually, we had got
983
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,840
to go out with with Bill to
Rattlesnake Island, which is
984
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,360
where Ogo Pogo is said to live
in this cave system kind of
985
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,280
beneath it and where a lot of
the sightings take place near
986
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,520
squally Point.
And that was pretty cool to go
987
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,160
out there and actually be in
that spot.
988
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,720
And you know, you're like,
you're like 15 feet from shore
989
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:53,600
and it's like 200 feet deep.
Like once you're on that lake,
990
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,480
you like, I was like, well, lake
monster.
991
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,360
How can something lived a
limited body of water.
992
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,720
There's no way your perception
changes when you're out on it,
993
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,480
when you're out on that lake and
you see how deep it is so quick
994
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,640
and things like that.
It it's really.
995
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,480
Interesting drops.
Off on right and there's a very
996
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,600
much a belief that a lot of the
lakes in British Columbia are
997
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,440
are interconnected through
tunnel systems that people
998
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,560
postulate that, you know,
whatever Ogo Pogo is can move
999
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,440
from lake to lake and even
follow like the river through
1000
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,560
the Columbia River out to the
ocean and, you know, kind of
1001
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,080
make its way back.
And of course, off the coast of
1002
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,280
British Columbia, we've got the
Cadburrosaurus, which looks very
1003
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,920
similar to what people describe
what Pogo could be.
1004
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,160
So there's a lot more to the
story than this funny creature
1005
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,560
that's on postcards and T-shirts
and hats, right?
1006
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,400
Like it's, it's a, it's a
fascinating thing.
1007
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,640
And much like with Dying Light,
I went into this doing the Dogo
1008
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,480
Pogo stuff with one idea.
And I came out of it with
1009
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,240
something completely different
perspective on it, which I don't
1010
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:53,360
really want to say here because
I hope people will will watch
1011
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,720
Chris Waterson read the book to
kind of see where I went with
1012
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:59,160
that.
But it was and I, I think my, I
1013
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,760
can't even call the conclusion.
It's just one possibility Will
1014
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,480
will like irk people about what
what's going on in Lake
1015
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,720
Okanogan.
Well, there goes my second
1016
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,040
question.
Without getting too deep into
1017
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,240
it, I, I suppose, or say what
you can, I think something that
1018
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:21,760
really strikes us here when we
do our episodes on specific
1019
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,040
cryptids and stuff is when like
you were alluding to or you, you
1020
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,600
said right at the beginning of
this that the Native Americans
1021
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:40,440
now, I don't know if what you
meant was that they, that they
1022
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,120
had, they saw sightings of a
real, of an animal and
1023
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,400
determined.
Because a lot of those native
1024
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,880
people had just stories for like
the existence and how the sun
1025
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,880
travels across the, the sky and
all sorts of stuff.
1026
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,800
And everything had some sort of
like a, a spiritual aspect to it
1027
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,400
and stuff like that.
If it was an animal that they
1028
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,240
were viewing and seeing and then
they gave a spiritual sort of
1029
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:11,840
way to describe it, or if it was
just, you know, I guess the lake
1030
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:16,800
for them was living in a way.
But when we talk about a
1031
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,840
specific Cryptid, it really
helps that believability of that
1032
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,920
Cryptid existing.
If there was a native tribe in
1033
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,480
the area that also talked about
that, though, they use their own
1034
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,360
language and their own ways to
describe it.
1035
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,160
You know, whatever they called
it, like Bigfoot, say like the
1036
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,880
the Big Brother or something
like that, right?
1037
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,880
But they had parallel stories as
what we'd see in modern times.
1038
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,920
Is that, is that something that
for you when you're going into
1039
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,760
this, when you found out that
there was, you know, the native
1040
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,080
people at least referred to this
lake in this manner that that
1041
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,880
might have kind of opened up a
door where it was just like, oh,
1042
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,000
maybe there is something to this
versus just like you were
1043
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,120
saying, some funny cartoon
character on T-shirts and hats.
1044
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,040
Definitely, definitely like
that, that fact.
1045
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,840
And for them, they very much
like it's it is the lake, but it
1046
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,640
can choose to take a physical
form.
1047
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,320
And that's what people see when
they see it.
1048
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,240
So that's how they view it,
right?
1049
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,120
Because, yeah, there's, there's
a lot like, you know, indigenous
1050
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,440
people will say, like, you know,
the crow has a spirit side to it
1051
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,520
and everything like that.
But they definitely feel the
1052
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,640
same with them with Bigfoot.
They call it Stranadum in their
1053
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,760
culture.
It is a, a, a, a forest spirit
1054
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,000
in a guardian of the forests in
the mountains.
1055
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,440
And it will choose to take a
physical form to present itself
1056
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,520
to you when it wants to.
And so that's why you know what
1057
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,680
she says when people try to take
pictures of these things, it's
1058
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,320
always blurry because suddenly
it's showing up and you're like,
1059
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,400
holy shit, like what's, you know
what I mean?
1060
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,480
It always takes you by surprise.
And she's sort of like, if, if
1061
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,960
you see it, you're lucky, don't
waste time.
1062
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,600
Like, why do you got to take a
picture of it?
1063
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,800
If you've seen it, it's special.
That should be enough.
1064
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,680
If you've seen the something
that is like beyond our world,
1065
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,440
it, it should be enough, but
it's never enough.
1066
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:57,920
We want to validate our
experiences.
1067
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,560
But I, I, that kind of for me is
like a paranormal investigator.
1068
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,640
It's like we always poo poo the
personal experience because you
1069
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,040
can't show it to somebody.
But honestly, if you've seen
1070
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,200
something that blows your mind
like Jeremy with Bigfoot, isn't
1071
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,280
that enough?
Like shouldn't that be enough?
1072
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,080
Like who gives a fuck what
anybody else thinks?
1073
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:14,920
Well, that's why I fucking
believe it.
1074
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,040
Like, and I, I think that's it.
I mean, you could say that for
1075
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,880
any religious, spiritual thing,
it shouldn't matter what other
1076
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,800
people think.
If it, like, if it had an impact
1077
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,640
on you, it's, it's meaningful.
That's enough.
1078
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:31,800
So, are you familiar with the
the classification systems of
1079
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,640
sea serpents and lake monsters?
I, I'm aware of it.
1080
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,720
I couldn't like go and start
rattling it off at the top of my
1081
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,160
head or how it works or you
know.
1082
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,160
I was I was trying to look it up
and I can't seem to find it.
1083
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,520
I know it's in one of these
books over here, but like there,
1084
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,320
there's like four of them,
right?
1085
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,920
There's the Bernard Hay way
woman came up with his own.
1086
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,480
And then the two that I remember
is the champagne and the Coleman
1087
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:02,920
Hugh, I want to say I left feel
I could be completely wrong.
1088
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,760
I could be pronouncing it
completely wrong.
1089
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:12,200
The the Mangia Cobra or Mangia
Cobra classification system for
1090
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,040
anybody that's interested in the
classification of sea serpents
1091
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,840
and lake monsters.
I highly recommend looking these
1092
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,920
up and you'll kind of see more
what Jason was talking about
1093
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,600
when it comes to either the
physical or spiritual aspect of
1094
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,880
Ogopogo.
And when you see things such as,
1095
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,280
you know, like the, the common
plesiosaur description of Loch
1096
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,320
Ness right there, there's a,
there's these classification
1097
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,400
systems.
I think I want to say that the,
1098
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,440
the most recent one that
everyone uses now is the Coleman
1099
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,440
Hugh.
Could be, could be wrong about
1100
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,880
that.
I I, I want to say way woman had
1101
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,720
the first one and then champagne
and Coleman Hugh as the one that
1102
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,920
we're using now.
But basically like we just did
1103
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:05,120
a, an episode on on Pepe the the
monster lake Pepin, which is
1104
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:11,720
right down the road from us.
And I want to say that it falls
1105
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,920
it it's also it's a Serpentine
type water monster.
1106
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,360
And, and like how you were
saying there's like this
1107
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:25,640
geographical area, latitude,
longitude, sorry, longitude
1108
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,800
around the, the planet,
especially in the northern
1109
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,640
hemisphere.
There are, and it's, it's funny
1110
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,840
because it does mirror in the
Southern hemisphere, especially
1111
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,920
when you get down like Patagonia
and Australia and Africa, right?
1112
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,280
But there's just not so much
land mass down there.
1113
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,440
So it's not as prevalent or it's
not as known.
1114
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,600
But when you look at these,
these, these longitudes, all
1115
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,600
that make a ring around the
northern hemisphere of of the
1116
00:59:52,760 --> 01:00:00,360
planet, you get these different
water monsters and a lot of them
1117
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,360
are grouped into, you know,
well, there there's the
1118
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:08,920
classifications, right?
The big three are your, I want
1119
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:16,000
to say the the the water horse.
Which is the one where you know
1120
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,080
it has the long snout it'd be
it'd be your Cadbury source,
1121
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,120
right?
Caddy would be a a perfect
1122
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,640
example of a water horse.
It has that long snout.
1123
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,200
Some people say Nessie also has
that snout.
1124
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:33,440
And then there's the the
plesiosaur type water monster,
1125
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,000
which is what most people know
Nessie to be.
1126
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,760
And then some people claim Pepe
is also one of those.
1127
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,400
And then you have the serpent,
the long Serpentine one.
1128
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,560
And those are the big three.
And of course there's other ones
1129
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:53,200
that are kind of awkward and
weird, like elongated Stingrays.
1130
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,080
And and then they, they take
those, the water horse ones and
1131
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,200
they separate them in two
separate categories, one with
1132
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,800
humped backs and one with a, a
flat back.
1133
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,480
So anybody listening that's more
that's interested in the
1134
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,040
classification systems and, and
want to learn more about the
1135
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,720
water monsters around the world.
I know Weiwelman has one
1136
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:20,880
champagne and the Coleman Hugh
start there and then there may
1137
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:21,720
be a new one.
I don't know.
1138
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,720
It seems like they come up with
a new one every 10 years.
1139
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,440
So.
Things evolve all the time,
1140
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,040
right?
The the study into all these
1141
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,680
keeps changing, so you got to
update your systems accordingly
1142
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,640
I think.
Yeah, and I think that's exactly
1143
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:39,080
what what happens.
But yeah, what else you got for
1144
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,560
me, boss man?
That's that's really it.
1145
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,040
I mean, I've started working on
a Wendigo book right now.
1146
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,320
So that's, that's kind of
interesting spent time up in in,
1147
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,960
you know, northern Alberta,
because that's where the story
1148
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,280
began with the swift runner
story.
1149
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,440
So just just started working on
that and we'll see what happens.
1150
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,760
But right now, like it's really
coming down to getting geared up
1151
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,120
for heading to Monster Fest and
and all that stuff with the
1152
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,160
Ogopo, like with Cursed Waters
and Legend of Ogopogo.
1153
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,800
So it's been kind of a
whirlwind, exciting time.
1154
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,400
Well, if you ever find yourself
in Wendigo Lakes, Minnesota, let
1155
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,520
Jake and I know we'll
absolutely, we'll go take a trip
1156
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,720
man 'cause we're we're right
next to Minnesota.
1157
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,000
I know Chad Lewis does a lot of
research up there and I think I
1158
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,840
want to say he did a book on the
Wendigo as well.
1159
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,000
He did a a very good book on the
Wendigo.
1160
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:28,320
He did it.
With Chad knows a lot and even
1161
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,280
he's done some YouTube stuff
about it as well.
1162
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,080
Like he he actually I revisited
some of the places that he
1163
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,840
visited when he came up here to
work on his window Wendigo book.
1164
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,640
So it's such a Seminole modern
piece on the story. 11 can't
1165
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,200
help it.
Fun story.
1166
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:46,720
To go story, fun to go story
totally ruined a bunch of cool
1167
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,360
artwork that I used to like in
movies and stuff.
1168
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,760
I actually saw a tattoo recently
of some like deer monster that
1169
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,800
someone got.
It was a really cool tattoo and
1170
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:58,560
they were like, oh, it was from
the shop.
1171
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,000
They're like #Wendigo.
I was like, too bad.
1172
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,360
It's just a pop culture thing
and has nothing to do with
1173
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,680
Wendigo whatsoever, you know?
I was like, cool tattoo though,
1174
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,080
yeah.
Yeah, it's there's it's a that's
1175
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,280
an interesting story, the
Wendigo like the the folklore
1176
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,680
behind it and just how so it's
bled and not only into pop
1177
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,720
culture, like you say, Jake, but
just how yeah, just how there's
1178
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,920
still modern stuff that you can
associate with it.
1179
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,160
That's happened within the last
twenty.
1180
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,400
I've even just learned the other
day about a sighting allegedly
1181
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,440
near where I live.
So I got to look into that and
1182
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,360
try to add that to the book
because I'd I'd love them to go
1183
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,200
out and investigate.
Oh yeah?
1184
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,720
Well, I can tell you one thing,
anybody listening, if you guys
1185
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:41,000
wanna have an argument about a,
a creature or a or a spirit,
1186
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,360
find a Wendigo page or a crypted
page and and start telling
1187
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,480
people that that what they're
seeing isn't actually the the
1188
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,960
Wendigo and that it's actually
just more or less like a frozen
1189
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,240
zombie or a frozen zombie
spirit.
1190
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,640
And people will lose their
fucking minds.
1191
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,280
Yes they will.
But when you have Native
1192
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,680
Americans backing you up saying
I don't know where they're
1193
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:01,680
getting this deer head idea,
it's.
1194
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,560
Like.
Yes, like various various
1195
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,200
tribes, they all have their own
ideas, but it has nothing to do
1196
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,920
with deer.
But but you need to touch on
1197
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:12,680
that though.
You need to touch on the.
1198
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,120
The Stag.
Headed It's part of the lore
1199
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:17,360
now.
Yeah.
1200
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:24,240
Fun, fun fact about Chad Lewis,
he actually graduated from the
1201
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,480
college right here in town from
Wisconsin Stout, same town that
1202
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,240
Jake and I live in now.
Sweet, I did not know that.
1203
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,480
Yeah, so I've been, I've reached
out to him.
1204
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,680
Another person hasn't answered
my emails.
1205
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,640
He's, he's a, yeah, I've, I've
just once chatted with him
1206
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,840
briefly through Messenger, but
he's a hard guy to get a hold of
1207
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,120
and, and I think just 'cause
he's so busy, he doesn't always
1208
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,280
get back yeah, you know, as
quick as he would like so.
1209
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,480
He he, he's a stud.
He's, he's all over the place.
1210
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,640
I love him.
All right, boss man, where can
1211
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,600
they find all of your stuff?
Oh, and your other podcast, you
1212
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:02,960
want to you want to plug that
real quick?
1213
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,200
Yeah, that's just, it's a, it's
a show I do with Jolene who I
1214
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,280
referenced like I, I, that's How
I Met Jolene is researching
1215
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,120
Dying Light and which it's a
mental health podcast.
1216
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:13,720
Like it has really nothing to do
with.
1217
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,960
We touch on spiritual stuff
sometimes for sure, but it's
1218
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,440
literally she's like a grief and
trauma counselor, you know, but
1219
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,160
I've had my experiences.
So it's kind of like touching on
1220
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,440
mental health subjects from like
the average Joe's perspective
1221
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,560
and then the counselor's
perspective and then bouncing
1222
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,560
ideas off each other.
And that's called integrateness.
1223
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,360
And you can listen to that at
into greatness.com.
1224
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,560
Check it out.
The books might might be on the
1225
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,440
fray.
Books are available through
1226
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:42,080
Beyond the fray publishing and
and on Amazon and Cursed Waters
1227
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,880
will be out.
We'll debuts at Monster fest via
1228
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,200
small town monsters and the book
legend of Ogo Pogo comes out
1229
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:49,760
through small town monsters
publishing.
1230
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,360
You want to keep up with me?
I'm on Facebook and Instagram.
1231
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,080
You're going to be, you're going
to be at Monster Fest this year.
1232
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,080
I am, yeah.
I, I, I'm, I'm going to be a
1233
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,120
guest there.
I'm I'm guess I'll be talk in
1234
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,200
the book and maybe it'll be part
of the Q&A for Cursed Waters.
1235
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,760
I'll, I'll find out.
I don't know much yet.
1236
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,120
I just know I'm going.
I'm going to be there.
1237
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,200
We're going to roll out yet, but
I'll be there.
1238
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,200
We're going to have to keep our
ears to the ground.
1239
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,400
Maybe Jake and I will take a
trip out to Monster Fest 3 next
1240
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,080
year.
That'd be cool.
1241
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,800
It's I didn't get to go last
year, so I was really bummed out
1242
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,560
about that.
But I'm really excited to be it
1243
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,000
was well, once, once everything
came together, it's like there's
1244
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,080
no way I can't be there.
Yeah, it was a huge success too.
1245
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:28,520
Man, That was a big thing last.
Year.
1246
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,480
I'm really excited about it so
feels like I could retire now
1247
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,080
happily.
Jake, you got anything else,
1248
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,560
bud?
No, thanks for coming on.
1249
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,320
I appreciate it.
Sorry that Jeremy didn't let me
1250
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,920
know we were talking about a
specific book that you wrote.
1251
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,720
I did say we were talking about
Ndes and Ogapogo.
1252
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,400
OK, I guess I didn't mention the
book.
1253
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,160
I apologize.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1254
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,760
What an asshole that.
Whole nemesis thing, right?
1255
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,280
Yeah, that's right.
He's going to be the reason why
1256
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,640
I go to coast to coast and leave
in for rabbit hole it all.
1257
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,200
Happened right here, folks.
Jake.
1258
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,080
Just mentioned the Coast to
Coast radio.
1259
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,520
I would follow you.
I would follow.
1260
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:10,960
You.
No.
1261
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,200
I'll tell him that you suck,
that you you withhold
1262
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,280
information.
Don't trust him.
1263
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,280
All right, moving on.
All right, Well, that has been
1264
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,120
another episode of the Infinite
Rabbit Hole podcast.
1265
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,000
Jason, one more time, thank you
very much for coming on again.
1266
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,040
It's always a pleasure.
Pleasure, my friend, Really
1267
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,080
well.
Thank you so much for having me
1268
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:33,960
on guys.
I I always enjoyed it well as
1269
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:35,160
well.
It was so good to catch up
1270
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,840
because it it had been a while.
Yeah, man, make sure it's not
1271
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,480
not so long away next time.
Absolutely.
1272
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,280
All right, well, until next
time, travellers, I'll see you
1273
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,840
in the next fork in the path of
the infinite rabbit hole.
1274
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,720
Bye.
No, nobody else is going to say
1275
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:53,760
goodbye.
Say goodbye, guys.
1276
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:54,200
Bye.
There we go.
1277
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:56,200
No.
Way I do.
1278
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,080
I would like to thank you once
again for tuning into the
1279
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,480
Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
Please make sure to give us a
1280
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,040
follow in one of those beautiful
five star ratings on your
1281
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,640
podcast player of choice.
If you would like to join the
1282
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,080
conversation and stay up to date
on all things Infinite Rabbit
1283
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,240
Hole, head on over to Facebook
and search for the Infinite
1284
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,640
Rabbit Hole Facebook group.
You'll know it's us when you see
1285
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,880
the logo.
If you would like to help
1286
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,680
contribute to the 'cause there
are a few ways to do so.
1287
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,319
First, head on over to anchor
dot FM forward slash Infinite
1288
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:37,439
Rabbit Hole and click on the
subscribe button where for $5.00
1289
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,000
a month you'll get access to all
our old episodes that will never
1290
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,600
see the free spotlight ever
again.
1291
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,080
It's horrible stuff, but if
you're into that kind of thing,
1292
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,760
go check that second.
Head on over to
1293
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,600
infiniterabbithole.com and click
on the IRH Merch shop tab and
1294
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,359
grab yourself a sweet T-shirt
sticker or whatever else you see
1295
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:01,600
that you wouldn't mind on.
Until next time, travelers.
1296
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:06,479
I'm Jeremy, and I'll see you at
the next fork in the path of the
1297
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:20,680
infinite rabbit hole.
Future Past higher To this point
1298
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,680
in time, somewhere in the past,
the timeline spewed into this
1299
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,880
gadget, creating an alternate
1985.
1300
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,120
Alternate few near Einstein.
Frontier.
1301
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,279
Reality for everyone else.
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:35,280
Everyone.
Else, welcome back to the
2
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,120
Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
I'm your host, Jeremy, and today
3
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,840
we have a special guest in the
house.
4
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,200
But before we get to anybody of
importance, we have to talk to
5
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,520
Jake.
What's up dude?
6
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,920
Thanks man, appreciate the
intro.
7
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,960
Nothing much.
I'm pretty wiped out, so I don't
8
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,080
know how good I'm gonna do
during this interview, but I'm
9
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,680
I'm here for you.
Bro I just got off a 12 hour
10
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,120
shift he did.
Yeah, but I actually work for a
11
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:01,960
living.
You don't.
12
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,800
You sit in an office.
I slave away on airplanes.
13
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,080
You knock, knock it off, knock
it.
14
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,200
Off a little bit of a
difference.
15
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,960
Anyways, so let's let's quickly
touch on what you just said.
16
00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,920
Jeff bailed on us again.
Supposedly he's still part of
17
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:22,840
the infinite rabbit hole.
We'll see anyways, but we did
18
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,000
have somebody that did show up
and that was our old boss man of
19
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,880
the Paranormal Network, good
friend of the Incident rabbit
20
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:37,480
hole author, boss man and legend
Jason Hilo.
21
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,280
What's up dude?
Hey guys.
22
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,000
How's it going?
What's?
23
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,800
Going.
I can't believe, like the
24
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Paranormal Network, that was
like two years ago already,
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wasn't it?
Yeah, Like, wow, I was just
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thinking about that earlier
today, 'cause we, you guys
27
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launched your video podcast like
I think almost like exactly two
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00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,360
years ago.
It feels like, if not earlier
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then you know what I mean?
It's like just heading into
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00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,760
summer 2022.
Something like that.
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It's been a while, It's been a
while and we have never been as
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popular.
Which is awesome.
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Take us back.
Anyway, so we have you on today
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because we just finished up a
block on near death experiences
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and the very first book I used
for my research was your book
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Dying Light So Well.
I'm honored, man, that you
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started with that.
Well, yeah, of course, of
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course, man.
Good, good friend.
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I would I, I trust, I trust your
research.
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I really do.
Let's let's just start off with
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the the easy question.
What what?
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What brought you to doing a book
on Indies?
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It was almost so Peter Ren, who
he's a good friend of mine and
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he's the Co founder of our
Canadian paranormal society. him
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and I started that up here in
Canada.
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We're in Canada for those people
who don't know where we are
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right.
He and I wrote two previous
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books.
All three published would be on
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the fray publishing.
And when we were doing our
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second book, which is called I
want to believe in investigators
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archive, our our whole point
with that book was to interview
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a variety of paranormal
researchers and
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cryptozoologists, etcetera, and
kind of tell their stories.
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And one of the people we
interviewed, Angela Artuso, was
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telling kind of her story.
And right in the middle of it
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was this, she had this near
death experience, which is
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actually in this book.
It's the man in black chapter in
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this book.
And when we were done, like I
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called Peter up because it was
right in the middle of COVID.
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So we couldn't like do the
interviews in person.
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And most of the people we
interviewed didn't live anywhere
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near us.
And like Pete, like we got to do
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a, a book on the on near death
experiences.
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Like that story was too good to
include in the we just get lost
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in the middle of telling her
story.
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And he's like, yeah, we need to
do, do that.
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Like I know people who have had
near death experiences,
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etcetera.
Pete had one of his own.
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And so I contacted our our
publisher and they were like all
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over it.
They're like, yeah, do a book on
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on near death experiences.
And we were contractually had to
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do another book too.
So that felt like just the right
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thing to do.
So it was Angela's story that
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kicked the whole thing off for
us.
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And then it was like that fall
kind of became this deep dive
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into learning as much as I could
about near death 'cause I, I
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didn't, I'd heard of near death
experiences.
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I'd watched that Netflix series.
What was it?
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I can't remember the title of
Surviving Death and found it
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00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,120
interesting, but I didn't know
if I believed it kind of thing.
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Like it's one just one of those
felt like a pop culture thing to
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me.
And so, yeah, but it was really
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interesting to kind of really
dig into it and do a deep dive
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into the subject matter and
learn more about it and, and
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kind of realize I was kind of
wrong in my initial skeptical
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00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,080
assessment of of what this this
is that people are having
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happened to them.
That's, that's wild because one
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of the first things that Doctor
Jeffrey Long touches on his book
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is the what, what he refers to
as the Oprah effect, because she
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basically polarized the, the,
the topic of near death
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experiences.
And after that, more and more
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people started coming forward.
And then that could either mean
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one or two things.
It could mean that people are,
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you know, wanting to tell their
story and, and they're not so
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afraid of the ridicule that
comes with it because they see
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how accepting the, the stories
are, how interested people are
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in or they're creating them.
So that was one of the, that's
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one of the big skeptic point of
point of point of views on the,
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on the whole near death
experience.
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But sort of like you, I also
went into the near death
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experience.
I started off, like I said,
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reading your book, right?
It's something that's been on
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the, the, the docket for a long
time that I was eventually going
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to cover.
And I read your book and I was
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like, hmm, there's some really
interesting stuff.
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So I got a few books that you
referenced in your book because
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I wanted to see where you got
your research from.
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And I think I bought 3 books and
then I bought two more books off
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of another book I read and then
another book off another book I
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read.
And, and now I have seven or
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eight of them.
And the, the farther I went down
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this rabbit hole, the more I
started to really think to
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myself, I even pulled Jake aside
one night and I was like, dude,
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there's something to this.
It's freaking wild.
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And, and I mean, I don't, I
don't know, I, I don't get into
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the spiritual side of a lot of
stuff, but this really, really
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opened my eyes.
And I told him and I said, man,
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I think there's something.
I think there's something.
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Glad it was something I've been
telling you about Jesus for four
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years now.
Finally he just starts looking
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into Ndes and he's just like,
there's something else out
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there.
I'm like, yeah, to kind of
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figure like, well, good, good.
Whatever works, man.
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You know, it's funny them
calling it near death
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experiences.
It should be like back from the
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dead experiences because I mean,
I've had a near death death
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experience.
I I almost stepped off a curb,
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00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,760
hesitated for a second.
A semi truck just blasted
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through a red light right in
front of me.
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Would have just, I would have
been done right.
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But so from my perspective, I've
never really put much weight
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into these Ndes 'cause I'm just
like, yeah, who hasn't almost
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died?
I didn't come out of my body
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when I did it right Type stuff
like it wasn't like, you know,
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some weird hypersense of
awareness.
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But getting into it over the
last couple weeks, cause Jeremy
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talked to me and, and everything
saying that he had a complete
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perspective shift in like a way
of living shift because of his
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research in Ndes that, you know,
it really touched him and
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impacted him.
And I was like, for people like
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having almost having accidents,
like, what are you talking
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about?
And so I, I started getting into
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it and it was pretty wild seeing
things like verifiably dead for
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like an hour and a half type
people like flatlined in the
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ICU.
They're like zipping them up in
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00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,440
the bag type stuff, right?
Transporting them to the morgue
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and they wake up out of that
sort of stuff.
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And having not just the people
interviewed, but also the
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doctors and saying like, you
know what the doctors were doing
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at the time.
Or like a kid that that died on
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the operating table that, you
know, not only saw his dad
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screaming out to God in the
closet, but also said, Hey, I
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met my sister who was from a
miscarriage they had had years
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before and they're not going to
tell their four year old son
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that, you know, oh, you would
have had a sister, but she's
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dead now, right Type stuff.
And so getting into that and
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being like, oh, wow, there's a
lot here.
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And then like, oh man, I should
look into this too.
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You know, it's pretty crazy.
Well, there's some like we
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interviewed a gal.
Hang on here, I got to remember
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her name.
La La La La La La.
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Sorry guys, it's been a long
time since I actually read my
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own book.
No, you're good.
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You like we'll, you know, just
to tell everybody a little bit
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about what we'll be talking
about tonight.
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Since he's put out this book,
he's basically become Mr.
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Celebrity and he he worked on a
a documentary and book on the
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legend of local Pogo.
So we'll be jumping into that
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later.
That's why he needs a
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refreshment, just so you know.
Thank you for that.
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Lynn Russell, like Lynn Russell
was a researcher and she, she
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told me like there's, there's
people who have been dead for 12
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hours who've come back, right?
Like they are actually not just
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being taken to the morgue,
they've been in the morgue.
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Like rigor mortis is set in and
then they're waking up.
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I mean, she, she did research
into like more than 1500 cases
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all over the world.
So there, there is something to
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this, this phenomenon.
And and it is like I had the
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same experience as you, Jeremy,
by the time I had finished, like
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researching the book and it took
a long time.
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Bogo Pogo book is the only one
that took longer.
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My perception on the whole death
experience has changed a lot,
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you know, to the point where I'm
I there's no doubt that like
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this isn't the end, Like when
you die, that's it's not just
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black and it's over.
Like there's there's things life
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beyond death for sure.
And I agree with yours too,
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Jake.
It should be called the
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surviving death.
Like it's it's people are dead
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like they are they're not like
almost hit by a car or or like,
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you know, boy getting hit by 25
foot beam falling on them.
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00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,120
They are done like they
flatlined for even. 30.
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Seconds, one minute, you know
what I mean?
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They're, they're done.
And it, it seems that every year
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more people are talking about it
and coming forward with their
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stories.
And there seems to be everyone
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that has these experiences is
changed by it.
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And they're changed for the
better for the most part.
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There's a few where they're,
they're very bad experiences,
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but for the majority of them,
it's a positive.
200
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,120
They're, they just view the
world differently, life
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differently.
They live freer, they're
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happier.
They all talk about going to a
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place of peace and love and
they're, you know, everything's
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calm.
And that to me was, I thought
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00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,960
amazing, Especially in a world
where it just seems like there's
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00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,440
there's not a lot of that going
around right now, right?
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00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,760
I think it was Doctor Bruce
Grayson.
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00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,560
I could be misquoting here.
It could have been Jeffrey Long,
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00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:19,080
but one of those two did a whole
section on culture, cultural
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influences, and how an NDE is
basically described the same
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00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,240
throughout time and culture.
You know, we may use different
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00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,480
words to describe what we're
going through, but if you look
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at the core of what they're
describing, it's basically the
214
00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:39,440
same thing.
So it's it's absolutely wild
215
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,560
that no, it's either just a
natural thing, which is another
216
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,680
big skeptic point of view on
this is that this is just
217
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,960
something that our brain does as
it's like survival mechanism to
218
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,840
to make sure that we're not, you
know, freaking out during the
219
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,920
biggest thing that'll ever
happen to us in life.
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00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:04,080
They they even go down to
describing how this could be
221
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:10,520
like one last grand finale of
electrical works going on in
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00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,560
your brain in your memory
section.
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00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,760
And that's how you get your life
review, you know, quote UN
224
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,760
quote.
But if you look at like Eegs
225
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,560
during the time of death there,
there's nothing that, that that
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00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:27,200
proves that.
Absolutely nothing.
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00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,800
In fact, the evidence that we
have disproves that.
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00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,360
So the fact that we're not going
through that, but yet we're
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still having the same experience
through throughout time because
230
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:42,400
we, I mean, we have some, some
really far back documentation, I
231
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:48,040
mean, pen and paper going back
to the Roman Empire when the
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00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,240
printing press was created.
You know, we have documentation
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of Ndes.
If you go to places of
234
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:59,200
hieroglyphs like ancient China
or Egypt, ancient Mexico, you
235
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,000
see some references to Ndes too.
And you could still see things
236
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,800
such as a tunnel of light
gathering with loved ones, all
237
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,720
that stuff.
It's, it's incredible,
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00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,720
absolutely incredible stuff.
It is and I, I wanted to get the
239
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,840
skeptical point in there.
Like I talked to a physicist
240
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,160
named Lawrence Ward and he he
brought up the same thing, but
241
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,520
you know that it's the brain
shutting down and everything
242
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,600
coming to an end in your body as
a way to explain it because they
243
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,680
have, we can't measure
consciousness once a person's
244
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,160
like out basically like, so
there's an argument about is it
245
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,560
your consciousness just shutting
down or, or is it more?
246
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:41,040
But I, I like even his, he kind
of brings up the point that even
247
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if it's, he doesn't believe that
in near death experiences are
248
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happening, but he still sees it
as a positive because it, it,
249
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,760
it, there's, there's
spirituality to life.
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00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,360
Like he doesn't think people are
like dead when it's happening,
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00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,440
but it's, it's having a positive
effect on people.
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00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,320
And I think regardless of where
you stand on it, that should be
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00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,360
the big take away.
This is not a, even though
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00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:06,040
you're, we are so scared of
death in our society and in our
255
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,240
culture, we don't even have
funerals anymore.
256
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,960
Like, you know what I mean?
Like they're called celebrations
257
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,120
of life.
Like we are avoiding this topic
258
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,360
like the plague.
But as you said, Jeremy, it is
259
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,560
the biggest thing that's gonna
happen to us and it happens to
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00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,640
everyone.
And I think, you know, we need
261
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,440
to start looking at it as not
this bad thing.
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00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,400
It's it's a positive thing.
It's just the end of one thing.
263
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,360
Yeah.
Moving on to something else.
264
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,160
We gotta start getting glad like
doing shows like this that you
265
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,040
you're keeping, you're getting
that conversation going with
266
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,400
people and your listeners are
gonna hear it.
267
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,720
And hopefully it just starts,
gets people changing the way
268
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280
they they view death.
We shouldn't view it as this big
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00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,640
negative.
It's it's it's an inevitability.
270
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,400
Yeah.
And it's a natural part of the
271
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,320
process.
And it's not bad.
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00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,080
I think that comes with a lot of
what's going on in the cultural
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00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,920
aspect today and people's
beliefs on things.
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00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,280
It seems to be a tremendous
amount of like rampant
275
00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,800
narcissism where it's all about
me and me getting as much as I
276
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,480
want because this is all I have
left.
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00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,280
And after this, there's nothing.
And that puts a lot of fear in
278
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,200
people because it's like, well,
you know, I'm wasting time
279
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,480
because after this there's
nothing.
280
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,720
But then, you know, you, you
think about the inevitable end,
281
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,160
whenever it might be.
I mean, for some of us, it's
282
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,960
surrounded by our family members
in a hospital bed, you know, or,
283
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,400
or in, you know, elderly care or
something like that, you know,
284
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,480
assisted living, whatever.
Some of us is getting slammed by
285
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,640
a car on the way to work.
It's just, you know, it, it
286
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,200
could happen at any time in any
number of ways.
287
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:40,000
And if you just wrap it up in
your head that this is that's it
288
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,400
and nothing's after that, You
know, I think, I think that that
289
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,600
in itself could be pretty scary
because all we know is this.
290
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,000
All we know is consciousness.
All we know is like is I'm here.
291
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,680
I'm touching the desk, right?
I, I exist and not having this
292
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,800
anymore is, is pretty
terrifying.
293
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,840
But even if it was like if you
took the religious aspect out of
294
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,920
that and you just said, you know
what, you know, some skeptics
295
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,880
would say of just like it's your
brain's final moments and all
296
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,520
that sort of stuff.
If that was, I don't believe
297
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,560
that's the case as a Christian
guy, but if it was, at least we
298
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,360
would have that because it
wouldn't just be screaming
299
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,040
anxiety into nothingness, right?
It would be your brain doing its
300
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,280
very best to calm you and relax
you and ease you into, you know,
301
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,040
nothing or whatever, right?
Which would be in itself just,
302
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,320
you know, I'm gonna use the word
miracle.
303
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,120
But you know, it would be like,
Oh well, thank goodness, you
304
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,640
know, But yeah, it's, it's
definitely an interesting topic.
305
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,360
There's definitely a lot of
like, I think that the cultural
306
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:56,920
aspect of it too, going past
just religious boundaries or,
307
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:04,000
you know, some, I don't know,
like, like you might find say,
308
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,880
like sleep paralysis.
Sleep paralysis seems to change
309
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,319
when it comes to different
cultures around the world, or at
310
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,720
least what they say about it.
It like kind of varies somewhat,
311
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,359
but this topic seems to have way
more parallels than that, which
312
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,640
leads me to believe that's more
of a real thing.
313
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,319
Like not just, you know, not
saying people don't experience
314
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,480
stuff during sleep paralysis,
but you know what I'm saying.
315
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,880
The thing with the thing.
It's consistent.
316
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,080
Like it it it's consistent.
There is the tunnel of light.
317
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,400
There is at the end.
There's like at least one loved
318
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,440
one or someone that you're
familiar with there.
319
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,040
There are other beings.
There's a sense of peace.
320
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,200
There's usually something
speaking to you, be it the the
321
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,440
figure you see or just this
voice talking to you.
322
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,680
And there's this feeling of
oneness with everything around
323
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,120
you.
And then there is the life
324
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:56,600
review.
Like quite often you go like
325
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,320
there's that life review where
you can go through it.
326
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,880
And what, what's really
interesting, like, like they're
327
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,520
talking with Scott Taylor, like
he's talks about like not only
328
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720
is there this life review, you
can see these points where
329
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,320
you've impacted people and you
feel kind of what they've felt.
330
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,400
So you've seen the bits where
you've been this asshole.
331
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,600
And there's also an opportunity
to correct that within that
332
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,160
moment.
Like it's it's, it's, it's, it
333
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,720
seems far out there, but more
than one person is talking about
334
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,920
it.
It's not like one wing not
335
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,600
having this experience, like
you're hearing the hundreds of
336
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,920
thousands of these cases that
are exactly the same.
337
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:33,720
Yeah, and it's, it's wild
because we'll, we'll just stick
338
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,560
on the life review for a minute.
I, I, I have so many points to
339
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,080
go over my head.
It's crazy right now.
340
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:45,320
But like the the life review you
have, like you said, you're able
341
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,280
to see, and this has been
reported by a lot of different
342
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,480
people.
You can see not only your point
343
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,960
of view, but the point of view
of everybody involved.
344
00:18:53,360 --> 00:19:00,280
So I think it was who was it it,
I want to say it was Raymond
345
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,920
Moody, Doctor Raymond Moody who
who had this example of the
346
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,520
grocery store clerk, right?
So you have this new clerk and
347
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,040
he's, you know, a little
nervous.
348
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,680
The first job, you were an
asshole to him.
349
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,680
You're like, well, you know
what, dude, you suck.
350
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,800
And, you know, thanks for my
cash.
351
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,120
You know, you gave me an extra
5.
352
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,680
I'm not gonna let you know, fuck
you.
353
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,720
I'm gonna move on.
But then you, when you go to
354
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,400
that moment in your life review,
you not only get to see that
355
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280
point of view from your point of
view, but also from their point
356
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,560
of view, from the people
watching you's point of view,
357
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,000
from, you know, any point of
view that you could possibly
358
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,560
think of.
You're seeing that happen.
359
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:46,000
You're seeing how what you did
influence that person at that
360
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,320
point.
And not only at that point for,
361
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,160
for, for, you know, how you
influenced the rest of their
362
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,360
lives.
You know, you see how this
363
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:00,600
person, you know, went home and
kicked his dog and and you know
364
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,200
that dog had.
Internal bleeding and ended up
365
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,000
passing away and that that guys
kid was really sad and grew up
366
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,800
and and you know hated life and
had issues throughout their
367
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,280
lives and all just because of
that little thing that happened
368
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720
and you see that you know, sorry
about that example.
369
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,520
It's kind of brutal, but, you
know, just to kind.
370
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,200
Of well, it's true, though.
Like, yeah, it is a good point
371
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,960
to make.
And I think it's something like
372
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,920
you were saying, like Jake was
saying, like we were we're in
373
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,080
this narcissistic mindset right
now.
374
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,880
We're talking about me, me, me.
And actually, no, it's not.
375
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,000
It's how we interact with
everyone around us.
376
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,160
And everything we do impacts
other people.
377
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,560
And we need to stop behaving
this way.
378
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,840
And these things are almost like
an awakening for those people
379
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,720
that have them.
Sorry, Jake.
380
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,200
No, it's, it's funny you say
that Jeremy, because I've been
381
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,000
saying for a while now that I'm
not a big coincidence guy.
382
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,960
And I believe that there are
things like divine meetings and
383
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,240
appointments and things like
that.
384
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,240
Or you're supposed to talk to
someone at this point for XY and
385
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,360
Z.
Maybe, maybe it's that Co worker
386
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,480
that you just happened.
And this has happened to me,
387
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,720
especially when I was in the
Navy, actually really like right
388
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,840
before I got out.
But you know, you just happened
389
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,720
to take that extra 5 minutes on
a break, even though you're not
390
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,420
really supposed to.
You happen to see that one Co
391
00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:21,240
worker that looks really down
and depressed.
392
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,880
Turns out they're thinking about
going home and, and just taking
393
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,920
themselves out.
And you're able to intervene in
394
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,040
that moment, right?
You can consider that chance.
395
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,800
You could say it's coincidence.
You could say it's divine
396
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,520
intervention or divine
appointments or whatever you
397
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,200
want to say.
And I like to think that, you
398
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,880
know, let's just say like any of
those movies where there's like
399
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,720
they're hunting the, the killer
or whatever it is, and they got
400
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,240
all the, the yarn all over the
wall and all the pictures and
401
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,720
everything.
And this links to that and this
402
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,840
links to that.
I was like, wouldn't it be cool
403
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,440
if you got there and God was
like, all right, so here's you
404
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,160
and here's where you, you ran
into this person.
405
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800
You said that one thing and then
they branched off over here, you
406
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,320
know, and did this sort of
thing.
407
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,960
And I've said that for a couple
of years now.
408
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,800
It's just like, you know, 'cause
you never, you never know,
409
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,360
right?
You never know what your impact
410
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,200
does.
You know, you let's just say you
411
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,160
try to be the best person you
can or the kindest person or
412
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,480
whatever it is.
You never know if that one pay
413
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,640
it forward moment did anything
in that person's life or if they
414
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,920
carried it over into the next
person's life or whatever,
415
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,880
right.
And so when you said that,
416
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,560
Jeremy, in the, in the episode,
and I was like, wow, that's kind
417
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,960
of sort of what I was just, you
know, thinking about.
418
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,160
And, and just right here, it's
like, how did that moment, that
419
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,280
one little blip in our, our
timeline impact everything else
420
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,120
around us, right?
That one person you flipped off
421
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,120
on the freeway 'cause you're
just like all mad at traffic and
422
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,160
stuff.
How did that affect that person
423
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,360
who might have been having a
much worse day than you, right
424
00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,880
Type stuff or, or vice versa.
You know, you, you show kindness
425
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,440
to someone that's, you know,
needs it at that moment.
426
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,520
And you'll never know you know.
Or at least you think you'll
427
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,360
never know.
Yeah, there's, there's a lot
428
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,200
here.
And I'll, I'll, I'll tell the
429
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,200
listeners one thing.
I'm petrified of death.
430
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Like petrified of it.
Anybody that knows me in person
431
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,320
knows there's two things that
literally scare the shit out of
432
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,640
me.
Death and snakes.
433
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,880
I'm gonna hate snakes.
Snakes.
434
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,520
I definitely snakes.
I hate snakes.
435
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,400
I'm gonna hide A snake in his
sucker.
436
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,640
And.
A rubber snake.
437
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,000
And I'm gonna die anyways.
You get it both wrapped up at
438
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,400
once.
I can't say that this research
439
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,280
has made me comfortable with the
concept of death, but it at
440
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,160
least makes me think of it in a
different light.
441
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,280
You know, I like when I say that
I'm petrified to death.
442
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,200
I mean, I've spent multiple
nights in my life laying in bed
443
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,880
thinking about oblivion.
You know, the what is it going
444
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,720
to be like when I'm gone, you
know, kind of stuff.
445
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,480
And I mean, I, I suffer myself.
I suffer from stress or
446
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,240
depression, anxiety and PTSD,
and those nights where I'm
447
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040
laying in bed thinking about
this stuff does not help
448
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,800
whatsoever.
And I've done this numerous
449
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,760
times throughout my life, from
when I was a kid all the way up
450
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,320
until the current day.
But this topic alone has really
451
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,800
done a lot to help me.
It's, it's, it's funny, 'cause
452
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,840
like I'll lay in bed now and
I'll, you know, I'll get, get in
453
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,240
my fields and, and start
thinking about that.
454
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,080
I don't know why I do it, how I
do it, or you know, what
455
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,080
triggers it, but it just
happens.
456
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,880
And I will grab my phone and
I'll look up NDE experiences and
457
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,360
I'll just read through people's
experiences and you just start
458
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,720
seeing the consistencies through
them.
459
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,080
I mean, every once in a while
you get one that's like way out
460
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,680
of left field and you're like,
OK, well, skip, let me go to the
461
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,920
next one.
And then you look, you start
462
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,360
seeing the consistencies and
then you start seeing that, you
463
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,200
know, you start feeling like,
man, maybe there is something
464
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,920
after this.
Maybe, you know, maybe I'm so
465
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,040
stressed out about nothing.
And it's it's a it's a nice
466
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,080
therapy.
And I guess that's where I'm
467
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,360
trying to get to is that this,
this subject alone was a really
468
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,000
nice therapy for me.
And it gave me a tool that I
469
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,920
could use.
So like I told, like I told
470
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,240
Jake, like there has never been
a subject that has touched me or
471
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,200
changed me so much like this
subject.
472
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,800
I love this subject.
And I I told the the travellers,
473
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,960
I don't know what episode I did
it on as as of right now, at
474
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,800
this point during recording, we
all on dropped part one, Part 2
475
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,480
will be coming out next.
But by the time you get this
476
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,400
recording, both of that have
been dropped out.
477
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,960
So forgive me whichever one it
was, but I could very well see
478
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,000
in a part three, possibly a part
4 coming out of of narrative
479
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,200
experiences at some point.
And that was all kicked off
480
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,360
thanks to Jason's book.
So thanks, Jason.
481
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,640
Well, you're very welcome.
I'm glad I, I look at the book
482
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,960
'cause it was an introduction to
me.
483
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,960
It's almost more of an
introduction to the subject
484
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,360
matter.
I think hopefully for people
485
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,120
like it's a good way to kind of
kind of get into it and then
486
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:29,080
want to ask those questions and
read more 'cause that's kind of
487
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,640
what by the time I was done,
like it's one I'd, I'd
488
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,400
eventually like to write a
follow up to 'cause there is so
489
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,960
much, I feel like I just kind of
scratch the surface with a few
490
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,640
like anecdotal stories and you
know, the little bit of
491
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,440
skepticism.
And then like we talking to
492
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,240
Jolene, who did like she was the
trauma counselor to talk about
493
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,040
why we feel it's important to
believe that there's more.
494
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,280
Right?
Like there's so much here.
495
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,160
And it is such AI think it can
be, it can be a spiritual topic
496
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,280
for people who aren't spiritual.
Like I think it can kind of, you
497
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,360
know, they may not be like
religious, but it, there's,
498
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,600
there's AI think it can
introduce them to the concept of
499
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,600
even just spirituality in
general.
500
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,160
And I think that to me is really
important 'cause we need
501
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800
something.
Everyone needs that kind of in
502
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,000
there.
Like I too, Jeremy, I've got
503
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,960
depression, anxiety, PTSD, you
know, and you need something
504
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,240
more to kind of hang on to than
just reality sometimes, right?
505
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,400
Like I, I too was terrified of
the subject.
506
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,880
I think what scared me more
'cause I, my dad died when I was
507
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:26,840
young.
So I was kind of being
508
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,160
introduced to it far younger
than a lot of people were.
509
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,240
And then what scares me now is
the is like that happening, like
510
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,760
me dying and then 'cause I saw
what it did to my mom and it did
511
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,560
to me.
Like, so having that happen to
512
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,160
my wife and to my kid and I
don't want to put them through
513
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,760
that.
And that's almost what scares me
514
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,200
more right than anything else.
Yeah.
515
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,080
So it's, it's a, it's a tough
subject.
516
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,600
And it's a subject that, like I
said earlier, we we don't, we
517
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,160
tend to tap dance around.
Yeah.
518
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,360
I think, I think Jeremy might
tick some people off.
519
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,440
I don't really care.
I tend to do that anyway.
520
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:08,000
But I think given the evidence
of through NDE research, really
521
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840
digging into it, seeing like
what Jason was talking about 12
522
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,840
hours dead, like like rigor
mortis frozen in the morgue type
523
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,640
stuff and waking up.
If you actually start digging
524
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,360
into it and you really get into
evidence of it and not just like
525
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:25,160
someone said this is what
happened to them, but there's,
526
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,840
you know, medical reviews done
by it, There's interviews with
527
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,360
the doctors.
They're confirming it.
528
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,320
They're confirming what the
person said they saw.
529
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,760
You know, how would they know
that sort of stuff?
530
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,560
You know, they were in the
deepest coma we could put them
531
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,360
in while they're we're doing
this brain surgery on them
532
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,320
because of an aneurysm, right
type stuff.
533
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,120
Like there's no way they would
know this sort of stuff.
534
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,480
I think you'd be, you'd have to
be a complete and utter fool if
535
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,520
you could look at that sort of
stuff and be like, yeah, there.
536
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,200
It's all, it's all baloney.
Yeah.
537
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,920
No, exactly.
There's, there's, yeah.
538
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,200
I mean, it's just.
Evidence there.
539
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,760
It's not anecdal.
Anecdotal evidence.
540
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,120
There's hard evidence.
And it's, and it, like we said
541
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,160
in the very beginning, it's not
just Western society.
542
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,960
It's not just, you know, the
Indians, it's not just the
543
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,360
Hindus, the, you know, it's not
just the Buddhists.
544
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,800
It's not just, you know, the
Christians or whatever it is.
545
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,000
It's, it's just parallels,
pretty much the same story all
546
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880
the way through, all around the
world, every single continent,
547
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,800
people are experiencing the same
thing.
548
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,040
And if you could look at that
and just be like rubbish, be
549
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
like, well, you might be an
idiot.
550
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,240
I I was surprised too how the
the the reincarnation bit played
551
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,080
into it too.
And that was kind of just a
552
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,080
something that was thrown my way
when I was lining up interviews.
553
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,400
But it was interesting how that
there's sort of enough evidence
554
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360
there too that people are coming
across to support that people
555
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,520
have kind of done this before in
in some way, shape or form.
556
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,360
I found that kind of
fascinating.
557
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,760
And it kind of get then gets you
thinking about the whole concept
558
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,480
of timelines and string theory
and time is actually a flat
559
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,760
circle and not like, you know, a
chronological series of events.
560
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,360
Yeah.
And I found that kind of threw
561
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,560
me for a loop that that kind of
ended up in there.
562
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,960
But it did just sort of worked
as part of the narrative of
563
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560
these experiences that people
are having, because there's,
564
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,720
there's a lot of talk, like I
know Scott Taylor talked about
565
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,400
it and so did betting out some
bugging the kid when they're
566
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,040
talking about the, the
reincarnation bit.
567
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,440
But it all of this exists on a
kind of a different frequency.
568
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,160
These all these different kind
of possibilities.
569
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,800
And people are talking about
being able to like through
570
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,880
meditation vibrate.
I, I don't, I don't know, that
571
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,600
seems far out there.
But if we're talking about
572
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,040
living after death, that you can
kind of almost vibrate to these
573
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
different planes of existence
that fit within that like
574
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,080
energy.
It's all, we're all made of
575
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,800
energy.
And so it's playing around with
576
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,240
that energy where you can see a
look at like a past life or even
577
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,760
go to that place where you go
when you have these, these death
578
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,040
experiences.
I don't know, I, I, I found that
579
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,960
to be kind of mind blowing a bit
too and, and not out of the
580
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,080
realm of belief or possibility.
I don't know.
581
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,000
What did you think, Jeremy, when
you kind of read that stuff?
582
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,440
So I, I, in my presentations, I
touched slightly, like very
583
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,640
slightly.
I, I mentioned reincarnation,
584
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,120
but that's like when I say that
I'm, there's a third and 4th
585
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800
episode here eventually that is
something.
586
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,360
But I did, however, talk about
multiple timelines and how.
587
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,120
And actually, I think I want to
say that I quoted you in your
588
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,560
book about Deja Vu, about
potentially being an answer Deja
589
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,600
Vu.
Because if you go back to a
590
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,000
little while ago when we were
talking about the life review,
591
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,440
there was a there was a concept
that I that we missed on that we
592
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,320
haven't talked touched on yet
today.
593
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:51,080
And that is seeing it in
different play outs, like going
594
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,320
down different paths.
So instead of yelling at that,
595
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,560
that new kid, you were kind to
him and you said, hey man,
596
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,560
thanks.
You're going to do great, right?
597
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,600
And you walked up and, and none
of that bad shit happened.
598
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,200
And in fact that that kid went
to, you know, that he took that
599
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,440
confidence that you gave him
and, and just became an all
600
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,480
around All Star in the grocery
store, which gave him the the
601
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,680
juice he needed to become ACEO
one day or an entrepreneur.
602
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:26,320
You know, and it's, it's that
kind of stuff where how, if, if
603
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,000
you're, if you're having your
life review, how do you have
604
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,200
that?
How is that existing?
605
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,560
How, how is there a record of
how that could, how that turned
606
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,320
out?
And that's when you get into
607
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320
timeline conversations and you
get into the multiverses and
608
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:50,320
parallel worlds and the
potential for how Deja Vu exists
609
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,880
in our life, you know, because
at some point, you know, and,
610
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,240
and we're kind of getting a
little bit off topic here, but
611
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,760
when timelines line up slightly
or temporarily is, you know,
612
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000
when they say or not, not they,
because there's a lot of
613
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,360
different ways to, to explain
Deja Vu.
614
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,880
But one of the explanations is
that timelines line up and you,
615
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,760
you feel like you, you've lived
it before, where in fact you're
616
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,480
just viewing it twice.
You're viewing it from your
617
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,360
timeline in another person's
timeline.
618
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,880
And the simple fact that when
people go and have these life
619
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:35,840
reviews, they're, they're seeing
it from not just different
620
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,840
perspectives, but from different
perspectives across a different
621
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,040
timeline.
And it, it's very interesting.
622
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Like I like when I say I've got
another three, I got episode
623
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,120
three and four, like ready to
roll, man.
624
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,120
I've got more stuff I can talk
about.
625
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,520
So eventually it's gonna happen.
Travelers just need to I need to
626
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,000
spend some time on some other
subjects.
627
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,680
I can't spend too long.
Coming back to it.
628
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,680
I will.
Yeah, I will, in fact.
629
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Wrapped up in other stuff.
Oh, I'm right now I'm I'm
630
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,880
wrapped up in Elmwood.
That's my number one priority.
631
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,400
And that's kinda to to be
honest.
632
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,199
Everybody listening right now.
You guys wanna hear why I, I
633
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,040
didn't do a part three and part
4 together with this?
634
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,360
Yeah, you can blame CJ and Jeff.
Those douche bags, they they
635
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,880
bailed out.
They're just affecting your
636
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,800
timeline.
They did.
637
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,080
They're just bailing on you.
They bailed out.
638
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,920
Can it cause your career to
plummet?
639
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,360
And I'm.
Gonna see in their life review.
640
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,480
This is why Jeremy became
homeless.
641
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,360
They, they were supposed to come
out with two episodes for me and
642
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,080
both of them bailed and said
that they couldn't do it.
643
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,920
So I had to, I had to throw out
some NDE stuff before it was
644
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000
really ready because honestly, I
was, I was building up episodes
645
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,520
three, episode 3 for sure.
And then I was going to probably
646
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,280
scrounge together an episode 4
on just the loose ends.
647
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,280
But yeah, no great stuff.
I don't want to spend too much
648
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,600
longer on this Jason, because I
want to get into the rest of the
649
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,040
stuff, the other stuff.
Whatever, man, whatever you want
650
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,400
to do.
I mean, we could talk, like you
651
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,600
say, Ndes for like hours.
Again, there's so much material
652
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,600
to it.
Yeah, yeah, it's incredible.
653
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,080
It's incredible.
And you know, another thing that
654
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,400
I didn't get to talk about
during these two episodes of the
655
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,960
Ndes was to get more into the
medical side of it, like the
656
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,880
actual science research, the
scientific research and stuff
657
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,880
like you had mentioned in your
book.
658
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,840
I can't remember the name of the
researcher, but they, Doctor
659
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,560
Bruce Grayson invented the
Grayson scale and someone,
660
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,960
someone created a way to
modernize that.
661
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,760
And the, the issue with the
Grayson scale is that it's a
662
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,920
multiple choice thing, right?
So you can create false memories
663
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,680
in somebody or give somebody the
tools to create a false memory
664
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,960
by giving them the options to
choose from.
665
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Where in your book you
highlighted somebody else's
666
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,400
experiment or research, where
instead of giving them that,
667
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,080
they gave them a blank piece of
paper and they said write down
668
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,800
your research, write down your
NDE.
669
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,640
And then they fed that
information into AI and AI.
670
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,080
The AI was able to pick out all
the patterns and guess what?
671
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,960
Commonality of words.
There's Andrea Sodu, Dr. Andrea
672
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Sodu.
Yeah.
673
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,200
And he, they the commonality of
words.
674
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,040
And that's where like, like the,
I can't remember the exact
675
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640
percentage, but it was like, you
know, 75 or 80% positive
676
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,680
experiences, right?
Like, you know, light, love, all
677
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,360
these words.
They'd look at the common words
678
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,480
that would come up in all of
them.
679
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,920
It was fascinating.
Even he knew someone, a
680
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,240
paramedic friend of his that
electrocuted himself and it had
681
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:50,000
a near death experience as well
and came back and shared that
682
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,280
with him too.
And that was plot.
683
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,840
And he he so does an incredible
story setting these this being a
684
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,360
real thing.
Yeah, and and not only, you
685
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,960
know, are you seeing these
commonalities with
686
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,080
terminologies, right?
Because to kind of clear up a
687
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,800
little bit on his, on his
research was, you know, they may
688
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,120
not always say tunnel, they,
they can say words like hallway
689
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,520
Rd. path, right?
But you know, where other people
690
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,520
may separate those, those
titles, it could just be the way
691
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,240
that they're describing the same
thing.
692
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,560
So this AI was able to clump
those together and say, OK, out
693
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,320
of all of these, 75% of them
described some, some pathway
694
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,200
that you go, go on.
But another interesting thing is
695
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,080
that in my research or in my
first episode I believe it was,
696
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,480
we talked, I talked about 9
characteristics or 12
697
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,840
characteristics, sorry, that all
Ndes seem to have at least one
698
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,560
of.
And that was outlined by Doctor
699
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,720
Jeffrey Long in his book
Evidence of the Afterlife.
700
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,680
Very, very good book.
But you see the parallels
701
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,200
between what you pointed out
with Doctor Soto, you said Yep,
702
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,920
with Doctor Soto's research.
Still the same elements that I
703
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,760
that I pointed out from Doctor
Long in episode one of Ndes is
704
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,920
still being reflected, such as
the life review, the the
705
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,920
pathway, the the out of body
experience, the increase of your
706
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,680
senses.
You know, more powerful senses,
707
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,160
the immediate knowledge of
things.
708
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,240
But I'll, I'll, you know, all of
them.
709
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,360
I, I, I can't damn them all off
the top of my head.
710
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,480
But yeah, absolutely incredible
stuff.
711
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,920
Oh yeah.
But.
712
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,040
Coming forward different too,
that's the other part.
713
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,600
That's very consistent as
everybody comes back different.
714
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,840
That was his 12th point, was
that you come back most of the
715
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,920
time.
It is a very, very positive
716
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,880
influence on your life.
So yeah, very, very good stuff.
717
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,440
Do you have anything else you
want to talk about tonight about
718
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,960
ND ES?
I, I think like, like, I mean,
719
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,120
like you said, we could go into
it.
720
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,680
I think the, the only other one
that really stands out for me
721
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160
other than like Angela's sort of
man in black story is the Scott
722
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Taylor's where he was.
He didn't die, but someone else
723
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,520
did and he got taken along for
that journey.
724
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,000
I thought that was, that was
more unique.
725
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,880
I think it's more.
Of a rarity, the shared
726
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,480
experience.
The shared death experience,
727
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,680
that one I thought was
interesting.
728
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,600
That's another one that I, that
I left out of my my first two
729
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,600
episodes that CJ and Jeff robbed
everybody of was that I was
730
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,520
gonna get into.
Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna blame it
731
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,440
all on them.
All of it.
732
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,800
You hear this, scumbags?
It's all your fault.
733
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,480
No, I, I love them.
They I I've I'm happy to cover.
734
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,640
But yeah, every hero needs an an
the Nemesis.
735
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,760
That's right.
It's just otherwise, what's the
736
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,520
point?
Right.
737
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,800
So.
Mine is CJ and Jeff.
738
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,080
Right now it's them.
Yes.
739
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,320
Yeah, No, absolutely.
Jason, we might have to get you
740
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,280
back on at some point,
especially after I end up
741
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,040
dropping part three and part 4.
Sure, that way we can continue
742
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,600
this conversation, but until
then?
743
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,080
We are reread my book beforehand
off the top my.
744
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,520
Hey man, Jeremy, I feel
blindsided here.
745
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,560
This is gonna go down in my life
review.
746
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,800
You better.
If you're gonna have me on this
747
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,320
episode, I don't say, hey, this
is about Ndes.
748
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,360
Say hey, this is about Jason's
book that he wrote about Ndes.
749
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,280
So I can at least be well versed
in that.
750
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,760
I mean, if you listen to my
episodes, I quoted Jason quite a
751
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,040
bit in those episodes.
Yeah, that was today.
752
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,280
You know what?
I don't even know how to read.
753
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,520
Like I have to wait for the
audiobook to come out and all
754
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,920
that.
You're lucky you can just put it
755
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,360
on and listen to it at work.
I'll listen to it at well, doing
756
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,760
my job, and then I'll actually
have something to say about what
757
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,920
he wrote.
Every hero needs a nemesis.
758
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,440
I don't know, I heard that.
I heard that somewhere.
759
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,040
But since we are doing this on
YouTube, here's the book.
760
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,640
It's called Dying Light by Jason
Hewlett and his buddy Peter
761
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Wren.
So by all means, go ahead and
762
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,040
check that out.
Jason, you have anything that
763
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,280
you want to put out about this
book really quick before we move
764
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,440
on?
Nope.
765
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,000
That I think we we know.
We touched on all we can at this
766
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:24,680
point.
All.
767
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,840
Right.
Well, one that I did not do
768
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,440
research on to because the book
isn't out yet and neither is the
769
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,880
documentary.
You are getting into the world
770
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,840
of the cryptids, especially in
up there in the great White N
771
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,320
Specifically one that Jake and I
had covered with our good
772
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,280
friend, mutual friend, Phantom
Fill.
773
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,160
Ogo Ogo, you are.
You are diving deep into the
774
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,160
waters of Lake Okanagan,
Okanagan, Okanagan.
775
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,960
Okanagan.
Okanagan, yeah.
776
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,520
Yeah, yeah.
So bring us into that How?
777
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,800
How'd you get that?
Well, that started, I started
778
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,920
researching a book on Ogo Pogo.
It was like early, early last
779
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,640
year, so early 2023, just 'cause
I, I've, I live like 2 hours
780
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,960
away from Kelowna, right?
I've been there, I've seen the
781
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,960
statue, I've heard the stories
my whole life.
782
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,600
I wanted to kind of write a book
about it then it was originally
783
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,280
going to be for Beyond the Fray
because I had one more book to
784
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,200
write in the contract thing.
And this is a great subject and
785
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:24,920
Pete wasn't really interested in
doing it.
786
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,800
So I was like, I'll do it by
myself because I why not?
787
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,880
And then literally like a week
after I started researching the
788
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,880
book, I was talking with Eli
Watson, of course, with Small
789
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,640
Town Monsters.
And at the time he was doing a
790
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,920
show called Mysteries and
Monsters.
791
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,680
And he's like, we're all coming
up to Canada because we're going
792
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,640
to do on the betrayal of
Bigfoot, the origin out of
793
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,480
Harrison Hot Springs, which is
kind of really where the
794
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,040
Sasquatch story started with
John Green's research, etcetera.
795
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,640
And and he's like Seth, Seth
Breedlove is going to give me a
796
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,840
few days.
I can go off and kind of do
797
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,240
whatever I want.
He's like, I want to do
798
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,880
something on Ogo Pogo, do you
want to help out?
799
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,800
And I didn't even think about
it.
800
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,200
I'm like, yes, I said, because
I'm writing this book.
801
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,760
So it's like if there's like you
said, Jake, there are no
802
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,400
coincidences.
Like I've started writing a book
803
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,560
about Ogo Pogo.
Someone comes up and wants to do
804
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,520
something on Ogo Pogo so.
Sure.
805
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,400
That happened in May of last
year.
806
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,520
Eli and I spent like 2 1/2 days
in Kelowna doing this
807
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,600
documentary that we thought was
just going to be a YouTube
808
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,520
episode of the time.
And I continued writing my book
809
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,560
and I ended up being interviewed
for On the Trail of Bigfoot, the
810
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,480
origin with that too.
So I got to know the small town
811
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,440
monsters folks and the book
wrapped up.
812
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,160
I finished writing it in like
October and Eli and I were
813
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,560
talking.
I'm like, Eli the book has
814
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,800
become like, it's not this just
a bunch of different stories
815
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,520
about Ogo Pogo.
Like it's become a whole.
816
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,400
It's something else completely.
And it's something I don't think
817
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,640
beyond the phrase going to be
into.
818
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,440
And Eli is like, yeah, we should
talk to Seth about it because
819
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,240
they have their publishing arm.
Long story short, I was able to
820
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,440
get out of this beyond the
freight contract and Small Town
821
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,520
Monsters picked up the book.
And so they decided that instead
822
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,200
of that being a YouTube episode,
they were going to make it one
823
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,000
of their feature length
documentaries, which is now
824
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,840
called Cursed Waters, Creature
of Lake Okanogan.
825
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,080
And the book is coming out
called Legend The Legend of Ogo
826
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,840
Pogo, Canada's Loch Ness
Monster, and both drop at
827
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,480
Monster Fest in Canton, OH at
the end of the month.
828
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,920
That's phenomenal.
Good.
829
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,560
Stuff, yeah.
And I, I, I've never had dreamt
830
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,120
that that would even remotely
play out in any way, shape or
831
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,840
form like this.
Especially I've been a like,
832
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,840
I've got a film background.
I love small town monsters.
833
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,040
I think they do kind of the
best, like, Cryptid paranormal
834
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,520
documentaries out there.
And so to be able to have
835
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:29,920
something I've done be a part of
that.
836
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,160
And, you know, and Eli directed
Kirst Waters, but I helped film
837
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,200
it.
I did a lot of the interviews.
838
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,680
I'm interviewed for it.
You know, I was with him through
839
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,560
the whole process of making it,
basically.
840
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,840
And, you know, he was very
gracious to kind of really push
841
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,240
for that, you know, things to
happen.
842
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,360
And Seth really liked the idea
and was excited about it.
843
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:47,200
And.
Yeah.
844
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,600
Man, I'll tell you when I
started Infinite Rabbit Hole,
845
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,320
there was three big names on the
list that I eventually wanted to
846
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,360
have on the show.
Like sometime down the road,
847
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,960
1015 years down the road that,
you know, even today I look out
848
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:01,680
and I'm like, those names are
just too big.
849
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,800
They'll never come on right?
One of them, Seth Breedlove, I I
850
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,360
love his stuff.
What he's done with small town
851
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:17,880
monsters is incredible.
And anybody who is into cryptids
852
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,120
or they've even done UFO stuff
too with small town.
853
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,400
Monsters.
UFO stuff.
854
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,680
Yeah, yeah.
Dog man.
855
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:24,840
Like they're kind of touching on
all that.
856
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,800
You know they just impaired
Mothman.
857
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,240
Was part of the Aaron Aaron
Deese, right?
858
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,000
Just just did the, the, the the
the dog man's he he basically
859
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,480
did a good same concept as you.
They put out a a documentary in
860
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,400
a book, didn't they?
Yeah, Texas dog man triangle.
861
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,320
Yeah, yeah, same kind of thing.
And then his second book,
862
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,840
Hunting Grounds, is all about
the LBL, like the Land between
863
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,760
the Lakes there.
He did just that book just came
864
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,320
out, and that documentary's
coming out pretty quick too, I
865
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:59,080
think.
Yeah, but Seth Breedlove is what
866
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,280
he's done with Small Town
Monsters and that whole crew,
867
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:10,160
Shannon McGraw and and the bunch
are just it it's it changed the
868
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,080
entire landscape of Cryptid
research.
869
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,960
Because a lot of people may not
know this, but if you go and you
870
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,120
look at a documentary that has
any kind of solid production
871
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,080
value to it, it's Small Town
Monsters.
872
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,040
Oh yeah, yeah.
And I mean, their, their stuff
873
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,960
is on, I believe it's on Amazon.
You can, you can rent it on
874
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,160
Amazon mostly.
And their stuff is incredible,
875
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:42,160
the research.
It's they're really good and it
876
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,800
was neat to meet them all
because they're really good
877
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,080
people too.
Like, you know, someone was like
878
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,000
you don't want to meet your
heroes kind of thing in respect,
879
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,720
but it wasn't they're all great.
Like they're they're all all
880
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,280
really good.
And yeah, no, Seth is amazing.
881
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,720
And you should reach out like to
Seth because I'm sure he'd come
882
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:55,760
on.
He's always willing to talk.
883
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,640
I would, I would love to, I
would love to and another one of
884
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,400
another one of the people that
I've always wanted to to
885
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,720
interview with Shannon McGraw.
And I end up going on her show
886
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,800
to tell her about my Bigfoot
experience.
887
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,280
And I got cold feet.
I wanted to ask her to come on
888
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,480
the show.
I wanted to ask her and I got.
889
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,200
She'll do it too, like I
guarantee you.
890
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,440
Like she sounds awesome.
Like.
891
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,240
So I ended up emailing her and I
could only imagine the amount of
892
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,720
of e-mail she has on her inbox.
Probably just got lost amongst
893
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,360
everything else.
But yeah, so anybody listening
894
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,520
to this, yeah, I'm a loser.
And I, I didn't get emailed back
895
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,640
by Sham McGraw, so whatever.
Anyways.
896
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,560
And then just to just to fill in
that whole thing.
897
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,280
The third one is Lauren Coleman.
I would love to get him on show
898
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:43,920
one day too.
That.
899
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,320
'D be awesome.
I've, Yeah, I've never met
900
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Lauren or had the chance to even
to talk to him.
901
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,000
And #4.
Maybe I will.
902
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:56,560
Number four was Jason Hewlett.
And here it is my hero.
903
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,040
So I mean, can you can you talk
about the the documentary in the
904
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,080
book?
And you kind of, yeah.
905
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,960
I can a bit like it's So what we
like, I mean the documentary in
906
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,720
the book kind of take a look.
They it starts looking at things
907
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:17,000
from kind of the historical
perspective and the stories that
908
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,320
everybody knows about Ogo Pogo,
right?
909
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,640
And it is one of the most
documented like lake monsters
910
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,960
out there.
I think in some ways even more
911
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,480
so than than Messi, because look
with Nessie, it's like one
912
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,640
person usually seeing it, but
there's bits worth Ogo Pogo.
913
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,920
There's like a dozen people have
seen it all at the same time,
914
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,480
right.
But what's interesting is that
915
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,760
Ogo Pogo itself is a made-up
word.
916
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,800
It's actually, I'm going to
really butcher it, but it's like
917
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,160
it's Nahayitsu from the West
Bank First Nations.
918
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,480
And for them it is literally
it's a water spirit.
919
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,600
It is the spirit of the lake.
And it's a very important part
920
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,160
of their culture.
And what always happens is US
921
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,200
white people come in and take it
and misconstrue it and make it
922
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,320
into something that it's not.
So Ogopogo, the word came up in
923
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,800
in like the Vernon dance halls
in like the 1920s or 30s, right?
924
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040
And that they made the word up
talking about this silly
925
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,000
creature in the water that plays
the banjo.
926
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,720
And that word actually stuck.
And it's become this big tourism
927
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,280
mascot for Kelowna and the
Okanagan region.
928
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,520
So there's the documentary kind
of becomes about that.
929
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,040
There's two parts to it.
There's this this real, serious,
930
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,680
legitimate water spirit that's a
part of indigenous culture.
931
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,840
And then there's this kind of
derpy cartoon character, but
932
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,360
that also people seem to think
that you have to give sacrifices
933
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,240
to or it'll eat you if you go in
the water, right.
934
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,320
And so it's a lot of the the
documentary in the book become a
935
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:47,560
lot about these two different
things and in a way trying to
936
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,680
explain what it could really be.
And so there's like, you know,
937
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,840
in in the book, I talked to Ken
Gearhard, you know, and Steve
938
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,200
calls about from a more
cryptozoology standpoint.
939
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,280
But then there's also this very
spiritual component to it.
940
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,120
That's more than that.
Yeah.
941
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,120
And there's even a bit of a
conservationist message that
942
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,400
comes into it too, because if
this spirit is like this Fogo
943
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,880
Pogo or Taiitu is, is the lake,
you've got to preserve the lake
944
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,520
and keep it clean and pure.
You know, like it's.
945
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,280
So there's a lot.
That's what I mean.
946
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,880
It became it was more than just
a monster is what the Ogo Pogo
947
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,800
story is.
Lake Okanagan is in a basin,
948
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:24,760
right?
Isn't it?
949
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,960
Well, it is a glacial lake.
It's, it's long, narrow, and it
950
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,280
and Loch Ness are almost within
like just a couple of
951
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,560
geographical points apart if you
look at it on the globe.
952
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,640
And so it, these lakes and most
of the lakes where people have
953
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,720
these sightings all over the
world are the same.
954
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:43,520
They're kind of the same kind of
lake, long, narrow, very deep.
955
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,440
A lot of salmonoid fish in it.
Temperatures are very consistent
956
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,480
and despite what people see when
it comes to like Nasi with the
957
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,920
playasaur, which was like that,
that was a, that was a scam that
958
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,480
that's like that was a fake.
It's not it, it's a very much as
959
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,800
long Serpentine creature.
So is Nasi supposed to be with
960
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,320
like a, a kind of a forked tail,
like a whale's tail and like a
961
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,960
head, like a horse sort of
thing?
962
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,960
And these, you know, champs very
much the same, you know, so it's
963
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,880
it's a very different there's
consistence enough that you from
964
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,720
scientifically, you could say
it's all what we're seeing is
965
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,520
the same species just spread out
across the globe.
966
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:27,040
I know with Loch Ness, gosh, I
want to say it was maybe
967
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:33,280
20/12/20 sixteens, maybe 2016.
They did the Edna, the
968
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,040
environmental DNA on it.
Do you know in the IT came up
969
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,280
inconclusive for anything with
the exception of a few species
970
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,280
of fish and eels, although
sightings continue to happen.
971
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,720
I was just listening to a
listening to an episode recently
972
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:56,440
with Paige daily.
She's the gosh, she runs the
973
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,640
registrar for documented
sightings of Loch Ness or Loch
974
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,320
Ness Monster, rather.
Do you know if there's anything
975
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,040
in the works or has there been
anything done to do the same
976
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:15,320
sort of study in Lake Okanagan?
Not in terms of the E Ed and a
977
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,240
sort of test.
That'd be really cool.
978
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,760
Well, there's a gentleman named
Bill Stasiak who runs it like
979
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,720
it's like Ogo pogoquest.com and
he's you go to that website man,
980
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,760
and it's like got everything you
need to know about Ogo Pogo
981
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,520
right down to sightings.
People can submit their
982
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,560
sightings to the website, right.
And he, he actually, we had got
983
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,840
to go out with with Bill to
Rattlesnake Island, which is
984
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,360
where Ogo Pogo is said to live
in this cave system kind of
985
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,280
beneath it and where a lot of
the sightings take place near
986
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,520
squally Point.
And that was pretty cool to go
987
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,160
out there and actually be in
that spot.
988
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,720
And you know, you're like,
you're like 15 feet from shore
989
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:53,600
and it's like 200 feet deep.
Like once you're on that lake,
990
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,480
you like, I was like, well, lake
monster.
991
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,360
How can something lived a
limited body of water.
992
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,720
There's no way your perception
changes when you're out on it,
993
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,480
when you're out on that lake and
you see how deep it is so quick
994
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,640
and things like that.
It it's really.
995
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,480
Interesting drops.
Off on right and there's a very
996
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,600
much a belief that a lot of the
lakes in British Columbia are
997
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,440
are interconnected through
tunnel systems that people
998
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,560
postulate that, you know,
whatever Ogo Pogo is can move
999
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,440
from lake to lake and even
follow like the river through
1000
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,560
the Columbia River out to the
ocean and, you know, kind of
1001
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,080
make its way back.
And of course, off the coast of
1002
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,280
British Columbia, we've got the
Cadburrosaurus, which looks very
1003
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,920
similar to what people describe
what Pogo could be.
1004
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,160
So there's a lot more to the
story than this funny creature
1005
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,560
that's on postcards and T-shirts
and hats, right?
1006
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,400
Like it's, it's a, it's a
fascinating thing.
1007
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,640
And much like with Dying Light,
I went into this doing the Dogo
1008
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,480
Pogo stuff with one idea.
And I came out of it with
1009
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,240
something completely different
perspective on it, which I don't
1010
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:53,360
really want to say here because
I hope people will will watch
1011
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,720
Chris Waterson read the book to
kind of see where I went with
1012
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:59,160
that.
But it was and I, I think my, I
1013
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,760
can't even call the conclusion.
It's just one possibility Will
1014
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,480
will like irk people about what
what's going on in Lake
1015
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,720
Okanogan.
Well, there goes my second
1016
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,040
question.
Without getting too deep into
1017
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,240
it, I, I suppose, or say what
you can, I think something that
1018
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:21,760
really strikes us here when we
do our episodes on specific
1019
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,040
cryptids and stuff is when like
you were alluding to or you, you
1020
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,600
said right at the beginning of
this that the Native Americans
1021
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:40,440
now, I don't know if what you
meant was that they, that they
1022
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,120
had, they saw sightings of a
real, of an animal and
1023
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,400
determined.
Because a lot of those native
1024
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,880
people had just stories for like
the existence and how the sun
1025
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,880
travels across the, the sky and
all sorts of stuff.
1026
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,800
And everything had some sort of
like a, a spiritual aspect to it
1027
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,400
and stuff like that.
If it was an animal that they
1028
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,240
were viewing and seeing and then
they gave a spiritual sort of
1029
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:11,840
way to describe it, or if it was
just, you know, I guess the lake
1030
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:16,800
for them was living in a way.
But when we talk about a
1031
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,840
specific Cryptid, it really
helps that believability of that
1032
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,920
Cryptid existing.
If there was a native tribe in
1033
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,480
the area that also talked about
that, though, they use their own
1034
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,360
language and their own ways to
describe it.
1035
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,160
You know, whatever they called
it, like Bigfoot, say like the
1036
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,880
the Big Brother or something
like that, right?
1037
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,880
But they had parallel stories as
what we'd see in modern times.
1038
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,920
Is that, is that something that
for you when you're going into
1039
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,760
this, when you found out that
there was, you know, the native
1040
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,080
people at least referred to this
lake in this manner that that
1041
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,880
might have kind of opened up a
door where it was just like, oh,
1042
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,000
maybe there is something to this
versus just like you were
1043
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,120
saying, some funny cartoon
character on T-shirts and hats.
1044
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,040
Definitely, definitely like
that, that fact.
1045
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,840
And for them, they very much
like it's it is the lake, but it
1046
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,640
can choose to take a physical
form.
1047
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,320
And that's what people see when
they see it.
1048
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,240
So that's how they view it,
right?
1049
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,120
Because, yeah, there's, there's
a lot like, you know, indigenous
1050
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,440
people will say, like, you know,
the crow has a spirit side to it
1051
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,520
and everything like that.
But they definitely feel the
1052
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,640
same with them with Bigfoot.
They call it Stranadum in their
1053
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,760
culture.
It is a, a, a, a forest spirit
1054
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,000
in a guardian of the forests in
the mountains.
1055
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,440
And it will choose to take a
physical form to present itself
1056
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,520
to you when it wants to.
And so that's why you know what
1057
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,680
she says when people try to take
pictures of these things, it's
1058
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,320
always blurry because suddenly
it's showing up and you're like,
1059
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,400
holy shit, like what's, you know
what I mean?
1060
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,480
It always takes you by surprise.
And she's sort of like, if, if
1061
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,960
you see it, you're lucky, don't
waste time.
1062
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,600
Like, why do you got to take a
picture of it?
1063
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,800
If you've seen it, it's special.
That should be enough.
1064
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,680
If you've seen the something
that is like beyond our world,
1065
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,440
it, it should be enough, but
it's never enough.
1066
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:57,920
We want to validate our
experiences.
1067
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,560
But I, I, that kind of for me is
like a paranormal investigator.
1068
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,640
It's like we always poo poo the
personal experience because you
1069
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,040
can't show it to somebody.
But honestly, if you've seen
1070
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,200
something that blows your mind
like Jeremy with Bigfoot, isn't
1071
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,280
that enough?
Like shouldn't that be enough?
1072
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,080
Like who gives a fuck what
anybody else thinks?
1073
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:14,920
Well, that's why I fucking
believe it.
1074
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,040
Like, and I, I think that's it.
I mean, you could say that for
1075
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,880
any religious, spiritual thing,
it shouldn't matter what other
1076
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,800
people think.
If it, like, if it had an impact
1077
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,640
on you, it's, it's meaningful.
That's enough.
1078
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:31,800
So, are you familiar with the
the classification systems of
1079
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,640
sea serpents and lake monsters?
I, I'm aware of it.
1080
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,720
I couldn't like go and start
rattling it off at the top of my
1081
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,160
head or how it works or you
know.
1082
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,160
I was I was trying to look it up
and I can't seem to find it.
1083
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,520
I know it's in one of these
books over here, but like there,
1084
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,320
there's like four of them,
right?
1085
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,920
There's the Bernard Hay way
woman came up with his own.
1086
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,480
And then the two that I remember
is the champagne and the Coleman
1087
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:02,920
Hugh, I want to say I left feel
I could be completely wrong.
1088
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,760
I could be pronouncing it
completely wrong.
1089
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:12,200
The the Mangia Cobra or Mangia
Cobra classification system for
1090
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,040
anybody that's interested in the
classification of sea serpents
1091
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,840
and lake monsters.
I highly recommend looking these
1092
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,920
up and you'll kind of see more
what Jason was talking about
1093
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,600
when it comes to either the
physical or spiritual aspect of
1094
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,880
Ogopogo.
And when you see things such as,
1095
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,280
you know, like the, the common
plesiosaur description of Loch
1096
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,320
Ness right there, there's a,
there's these classification
1097
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,400
systems.
I think I want to say that the,
1098
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,440
the most recent one that
everyone uses now is the Coleman
1099
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,440
Hugh.
Could be, could be wrong about
1100
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,880
that.
I I, I want to say way woman had
1101
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,720
the first one and then champagne
and Coleman Hugh as the one that
1102
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,920
we're using now.
But basically like we just did
1103
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:05,120
a, an episode on on Pepe the the
monster lake Pepin, which is
1104
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:11,720
right down the road from us.
And I want to say that it falls
1105
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,920
it it's also it's a Serpentine
type water monster.
1106
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,360
And, and like how you were
saying there's like this
1107
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:25,640
geographical area, latitude,
longitude, sorry, longitude
1108
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,800
around the, the planet,
especially in the northern
1109
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,640
hemisphere.
There are, and it's, it's funny
1110
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,840
because it does mirror in the
Southern hemisphere, especially
1111
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,920
when you get down like Patagonia
and Australia and Africa, right?
1112
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,280
But there's just not so much
land mass down there.
1113
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,440
So it's not as prevalent or it's
not as known.
1114
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,600
But when you look at these,
these, these longitudes, all
1115
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,600
that make a ring around the
northern hemisphere of of the
1116
00:59:52,760 --> 01:00:00,360
planet, you get these different
water monsters and a lot of them
1117
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,360
are grouped into, you know,
well, there there's the
1118
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:08,920
classifications, right?
The big three are your, I want
1119
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:16,000
to say the the the water horse.
Which is the one where you know
1120
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,080
it has the long snout it'd be
it'd be your Cadbury source,
1121
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,120
right?
Caddy would be a a perfect
1122
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,640
example of a water horse.
It has that long snout.
1123
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,200
Some people say Nessie also has
that snout.
1124
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:33,440
And then there's the the
plesiosaur type water monster,
1125
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,000
which is what most people know
Nessie to be.
1126
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,760
And then some people claim Pepe
is also one of those.
1127
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,400
And then you have the serpent,
the long Serpentine one.
1128
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,560
And those are the big three.
And of course there's other ones
1129
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:53,200
that are kind of awkward and
weird, like elongated Stingrays.
1130
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,080
And and then they, they take
those, the water horse ones and
1131
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,200
they separate them in two
separate categories, one with
1132
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,800
humped backs and one with a, a
flat back.
1133
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,480
So anybody listening that's more
that's interested in the
1134
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,040
classification systems and, and
want to learn more about the
1135
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,720
water monsters around the world.
I know Weiwelman has one
1136
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:20,880
champagne and the Coleman Hugh
start there and then there may
1137
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:21,720
be a new one.
I don't know.
1138
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,720
It seems like they come up with
a new one every 10 years.
1139
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,440
So.
Things evolve all the time,
1140
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,040
right?
The the study into all these
1141
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,680
keeps changing, so you got to
update your systems accordingly
1142
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,640
I think.
Yeah, and I think that's exactly
1143
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:39,080
what what happens.
But yeah, what else you got for
1144
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,560
me, boss man?
That's that's really it.
1145
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,040
I mean, I've started working on
a Wendigo book right now.
1146
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,320
So that's, that's kind of
interesting spent time up in in,
1147
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,960
you know, northern Alberta,
because that's where the story
1148
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,280
began with the swift runner
story.
1149
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,440
So just just started working on
that and we'll see what happens.
1150
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,760
But right now, like it's really
coming down to getting geared up
1151
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,120
for heading to Monster Fest and
and all that stuff with the
1152
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,160
Ogopo, like with Cursed Waters
and Legend of Ogopogo.
1153
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,800
So it's been kind of a
whirlwind, exciting time.
1154
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,400
Well, if you ever find yourself
in Wendigo Lakes, Minnesota, let
1155
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,520
Jake and I know we'll
absolutely, we'll go take a trip
1156
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,720
man 'cause we're we're right
next to Minnesota.
1157
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,000
I know Chad Lewis does a lot of
research up there and I think I
1158
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,840
want to say he did a book on the
Wendigo as well.
1159
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,000
He did a a very good book on the
Wendigo.
1160
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:28,320
He did it.
With Chad knows a lot and even
1161
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,280
he's done some YouTube stuff
about it as well.
1162
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,080
Like he he actually I revisited
some of the places that he
1163
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,840
visited when he came up here to
work on his window Wendigo book.
1164
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,640
So it's such a Seminole modern
piece on the story. 11 can't
1165
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,200
help it.
Fun story.
1166
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:46,720
To go story, fun to go story
totally ruined a bunch of cool
1167
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,360
artwork that I used to like in
movies and stuff.
1168
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,760
I actually saw a tattoo recently
of some like deer monster that
1169
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,800
someone got.
It was a really cool tattoo and
1170
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:58,560
they were like, oh, it was from
the shop.
1171
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,000
They're like #Wendigo.
I was like, too bad.
1172
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,360
It's just a pop culture thing
and has nothing to do with
1173
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,680
Wendigo whatsoever, you know?
I was like, cool tattoo though,
1174
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,080
yeah.
Yeah, it's there's it's a that's
1175
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,280
an interesting story, the
Wendigo like the the folklore
1176
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,680
behind it and just how so it's
bled and not only into pop
1177
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,720
culture, like you say, Jake, but
just how yeah, just how there's
1178
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,920
still modern stuff that you can
associate with it.
1179
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,160
That's happened within the last
twenty.
1180
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,400
I've even just learned the other
day about a sighting allegedly
1181
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,440
near where I live.
So I got to look into that and
1182
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,360
try to add that to the book
because I'd I'd love them to go
1183
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,200
out and investigate.
Oh yeah?
1184
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,720
Well, I can tell you one thing,
anybody listening, if you guys
1185
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:41,000
wanna have an argument about a,
a creature or a or a spirit,
1186
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,360
find a Wendigo page or a crypted
page and and start telling
1187
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,480
people that that what they're
seeing isn't actually the the
1188
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,960
Wendigo and that it's actually
just more or less like a frozen
1189
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,240
zombie or a frozen zombie
spirit.
1190
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,640
And people will lose their
fucking minds.
1191
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,280
Yes they will.
But when you have Native
1192
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,680
Americans backing you up saying
I don't know where they're
1193
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:01,680
getting this deer head idea,
it's.
1194
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,560
Like.
Yes, like various various
1195
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,200
tribes, they all have their own
ideas, but it has nothing to do
1196
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,920
with deer.
But but you need to touch on
1197
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:12,680
that though.
You need to touch on the.
1198
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,120
The Stag.
Headed It's part of the lore
1199
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:17,360
now.
Yeah.
1200
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:24,240
Fun, fun fact about Chad Lewis,
he actually graduated from the
1201
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,480
college right here in town from
Wisconsin Stout, same town that
1202
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,240
Jake and I live in now.
Sweet, I did not know that.
1203
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,480
Yeah, so I've been, I've reached
out to him.
1204
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,680
Another person hasn't answered
my emails.
1205
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,640
He's, he's a, yeah, I've, I've
just once chatted with him
1206
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,840
briefly through Messenger, but
he's a hard guy to get a hold of
1207
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,120
and, and I think just 'cause
he's so busy, he doesn't always
1208
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,280
get back yeah, you know, as
quick as he would like so.
1209
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,480
He he, he's a stud.
He's, he's all over the place.
1210
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,640
I love him.
All right, boss man, where can
1211
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,600
they find all of your stuff?
Oh, and your other podcast, you
1212
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:02,960
want to you want to plug that
real quick?
1213
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,200
Yeah, that's just, it's a, it's
a show I do with Jolene who I
1214
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,280
referenced like I, I, that's How
I Met Jolene is researching
1215
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,120
Dying Light and which it's a
mental health podcast.
1216
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:13,720
Like it has really nothing to do
with.
1217
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,960
We touch on spiritual stuff
sometimes for sure, but it's
1218
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,440
literally she's like a grief and
trauma counselor, you know, but
1219
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,160
I've had my experiences.
So it's kind of like touching on
1220
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,440
mental health subjects from like
the average Joe's perspective
1221
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,560
and then the counselor's
perspective and then bouncing
1222
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,560
ideas off each other.
And that's called integrateness.
1223
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,360
And you can listen to that at
into greatness.com.
1224
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,560
Check it out.
The books might might be on the
1225
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,440
fray.
Books are available through
1226
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:42,080
Beyond the fray publishing and
and on Amazon and Cursed Waters
1227
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,880
will be out.
We'll debuts at Monster fest via
1228
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,200
small town monsters and the book
legend of Ogo Pogo comes out
1229
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:49,760
through small town monsters
publishing.
1230
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,360
You want to keep up with me?
I'm on Facebook and Instagram.
1231
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,080
You're going to be, you're going
to be at Monster Fest this year.
1232
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,080
I am, yeah.
I, I, I'm, I'm going to be a
1233
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,120
guest there.
I'm I'm guess I'll be talk in
1234
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,200
the book and maybe it'll be part
of the Q&A for Cursed Waters.
1235
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,760
I'll, I'll find out.
I don't know much yet.
1236
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,120
I just know I'm going.
I'm going to be there.
1237
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,200
We're going to roll out yet, but
I'll be there.
1238
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,200
We're going to have to keep our
ears to the ground.
1239
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,400
Maybe Jake and I will take a
trip out to Monster Fest 3 next
1240
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,080
year.
That'd be cool.
1241
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,800
It's I didn't get to go last
year, so I was really bummed out
1242
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,560
about that.
But I'm really excited to be it
1243
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,000
was well, once, once everything
came together, it's like there's
1244
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,080
no way I can't be there.
Yeah, it was a huge success too.
1245
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:28,520
Man, That was a big thing last.
Year.
1246
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,480
I'm really excited about it so
feels like I could retire now
1247
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,080
happily.
Jake, you got anything else,
1248
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,560
bud?
No, thanks for coming on.
1249
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,320
I appreciate it.
Sorry that Jeremy didn't let me
1250
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,920
know we were talking about a
specific book that you wrote.
1251
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,720
I did say we were talking about
Ndes and Ogapogo.
1252
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,400
OK, I guess I didn't mention the
book.
1253
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,160
I apologize.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1254
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,760
What an asshole that.
Whole nemesis thing, right?
1255
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,280
Yeah, that's right.
He's going to be the reason why
1256
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,640
I go to coast to coast and leave
in for rabbit hole it all.
1257
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,200
Happened right here, folks.
Jake.
1258
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,080
Just mentioned the Coast to
Coast radio.
1259
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,520
I would follow you.
I would follow.
1260
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:10,960
You.
No.
1261
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,200
I'll tell him that you suck,
that you you withhold
1262
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,280
information.
Don't trust him.
1263
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,280
All right, moving on.
All right, Well, that has been
1264
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,120
another episode of the Infinite
Rabbit Hole podcast.
1265
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,000
Jason, one more time, thank you
very much for coming on again.
1266
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,040
It's always a pleasure.
Pleasure, my friend, Really
1267
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,080
well.
Thank you so much for having me
1268
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:33,960
on guys.
I I always enjoyed it well as
1269
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:35,160
well.
It was so good to catch up
1270
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,840
because it it had been a while.
Yeah, man, make sure it's not
1271
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,480
not so long away next time.
Absolutely.
1272
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,280
All right, well, until next
time, travellers, I'll see you
1273
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,840
in the next fork in the path of
the infinite rabbit hole.
1274
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,720
Bye.
No, nobody else is going to say
1275
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:53,760
goodbye.
Say goodbye, guys.
1276
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:54,200
Bye.
There we go.
1277
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:56,200
No.
Way I do.
1278
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,080
I would like to thank you once
again for tuning into the
1279
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,480
Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
Please make sure to give us a
1280
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,040
follow in one of those beautiful
five star ratings on your
1281
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,640
podcast player of choice.
If you would like to join the
1282
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,080
conversation and stay up to date
on all things Infinite Rabbit
1283
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,240
Hole, head on over to Facebook
and search for the Infinite
1284
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,640
Rabbit Hole Facebook group.
You'll know it's us when you see
1285
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,880
the logo.
If you would like to help
1286
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,680
contribute to the 'cause there
are a few ways to do so.
1287
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,319
First, head on over to anchor
dot FM forward slash Infinite
1288
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:37,439
Rabbit Hole and click on the
subscribe button where for $5.00
1289
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,000
a month you'll get access to all
our old episodes that will never
1290
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,600
see the free spotlight ever
again.
1291
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,080
It's horrible stuff, but if
you're into that kind of thing,
1292
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,760
go check that second.
Head on over to
1293
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,600
infiniterabbithole.com and click
on the IRH Merch shop tab and
1294
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,359
grab yourself a sweet T-shirt
sticker or whatever else you see
1295
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:01,600
that you wouldn't mind on.
Until next time, travelers.
1296
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:06,479
I'm Jeremy, and I'll see you at
the next fork in the path of the
1297
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:20,680
infinite rabbit hole.
Future Past higher To this point
1298
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,680
in time, somewhere in the past,
the timeline spewed into this
1299
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,880
gadget, creating an alternate
1985.
1300
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,120
Alternate few near Einstein.
Frontier.
1301
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,279
Reality for everyone else.
