182. US Government UFO Programs: 40's - 90's Part 1

0:22 The history of unidentified flying objects in the skies over the United States is plentiful. Seemingly since the establishment of our country, we have been kept company by an unknown presence acting as a watchful eye in the sky that to this day seems to keep just enough distance away from us to keep its identity anonymous. But that hasn't stopped us from trying to find out who or what they are. They come in many different shapes, sizes and designs. Saucers, bright lights, cigar shaped and metallic spheres, orbs of light green streaks or even a flash. The truth is that we have no idea what is happening in the space above our heads and where there is a mystery, there is someone trying to solve it. For the mystery of the Unidentified Flying Object, or more recently referred to as Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon in the skies over the United States, that searcher is Many private organizations from around the country keep their eyes glued to the skies for slightest of sightings, giving them a sliver of evidence.

1:28 When one new entity pops up, it usually means the end of another one, with a constant game of superiority constantly going back and forth. However, there are quite a few that have stuck around for a long time and show no signs of stopping in the near future, But one stands about the rest, one not of the private sector. This would be the United States government and no matter the form, whether it comes in the shape of the United States Air Force, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, or some unknown entity under the governmental umbrella, the fact is that they have watched the skies just as long as civilians. We have dedicated an incredible amount of time, effort, money, and people to the search for the truth. The projects are many and the search is always ongoing. Today we dive into the basics of UFOs and the government. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole. Present 1985 Future Past.

2:43 Prior to this point in time, somewhere in the past, the timeline skewed into this tangent, creating a Wall Street in 1985 alternate to You need an Einstein reality for everyone else. Welcome back to the Infinite Rabbit Hole, everybody. I am your host, Jeremy, and today we're going to dive into some of the lesser known and well known government UFO programs, specifically from the 40s to the 90s. Gentlemen, gentlemen. As in Jake and Jefferson. Using.

3:28 His full name, huh? Yeah, his full name. That is not my name, but I'll go with it. It's your name today, Jefferson. How are you doing? I'm good buddy. How are you doing? I'm. Good, good. What'd you do today, man? I went fishing this morning and then I took a nap and then I played some battlefield and then I got a milkshake. Watching NASA make sure they're not not doing. So I would never watch. I would never watch NASA, man, Why would I ever do something like that? They're totally trustworthy and everything they've ever done is 100% legit. They're definitely not laundering billions of dollars or anything like that, you know? So I'll tell you.

4:10 I'll tell you a funny story. I I went out and bought some of that Tactus Squatch coffee for K cups. Oh, yeah. I didn't know it was a dark one or a dark roast. Was not ready for that. You got to read the labels sometimes on things. It is what it is. I know reading's not your. I love dark roast stuff. I drink whatever I drink, but it's always dark roast. Yeah. Speaking of Jake. What's up dude? How was your cup of coffee this morning? It was good. It was good. It was dark. And then I put about a gallon of Creamer in it so I couldn't taste it anymore. You know, I could taste with sugar. So it was pretty decent. And then me and my wife went and joined my friend Jeremy actually, and his wife and his family over at the Pickle Fest in Boyceville somewhere in my a Pickle fest shirt, which was strange because for calling it a pickle fest, there was a single booth selling anything remotely similar to Pickles. And they're like, I was like, that's kind of weird. You couldn't like, there's nothing here to do with Pickles. Like no pickle foods of any kinds. And they're like, yeah, we came here three years ago and we started selling Pickles here because we noticed the exact same thing.

5:25 It's a very strange festival to go to where there's nothing related to Pickles. So I'm like, OK, but is a good time. I watched the parade. Jeremy's daughter was in the parade. So that was cool then. And then I came home and do the dishes, took a nap, we cleaned out the chicken coop, and now I'm here. Yeah, I was expecting like, I don't know, at least like a pickle cake or. Fried Pickles something. Fried Pickles. Pickle. Brats. Yeah, pickle chips, just like something. There was nothing. There was a lot of cars in the parade with Pickles scrapped to them, but. Other than. That and there was nothing really pickly about Pickle Fest. It's. Very strange. I will say, Jefferson, I will say that the parade was much better than it was at UFO Days, so we're going to have to work on that.

6:09 No cheese throwing though. I was going to say, is there any assault cheese? There was no no assault cheese this time, which was disappointing, but we did get assaulted by plenty of candy. And then, gosh, what was the other thing? The other thing? The other thing, The thing. Now. Well, I can't remember. Show, show everybody your beer tat man. For all the people watching. Oh, no, yeah. Everybody look how lanky this dude is. He's like a freaking slender man. He's really that tall. Thanks. So there's a guy there that was selling beer taps. So Jeremy was like, hey, let me get you one for your birthday coming up next weekend. So he did. So I got this Yeti beer tap.

6:52 I actually went on to the website to try to get you get you some but they don't ship. So, oh, the Yeti Imperial Stout. Yeah, I'm not a big imperial stout guy, so I probably wouldn't like it that much, but. Still would have got it for you. Yeah, just to put it up on the on the rack back here with the bat Squatch. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jeff? Yep. Started up shadow band again, man. I did. Man, why? What's coming up it? Was a sleepy dude. No, we so we have like kind of a new format. We're actually not bringing or knowing what we're bringing for the next week, right. So like it's kind of a surprise. It's kind of like a hey, what did you learn or what did you hear last week?

7:35 Boom. And then that'll just kick off the conversation because you know, we don't script anything. We just kind of, we just wing it. Just BSN, huh? Yeah, just BSN and then we recorded like 3 episodes, only posted one because we've been having like issues with Twitch. People don't know streaming is hard. I didn't get an invite. Well, you don't follow and have notification bells turned on, do you? No. I didn't get an invite to to record with you guys. I'm, I'm sad. Oh well, I'm sad, Jake. That's kind of messed up, man. We like high value guests. You know, racist, actually. All right, guys, we're going to jump into UFOs from the 40s to the 90s, specifically the government projects. Anything that you guys are looking forward to hearing about?

8:22 I have a couple things in the back of my mind. I just want to see if you if you hit them or not. We'll see. I will. I also have a couple things in the back of my mind and I'm curious as to whether Jeff will hit them or not. Oh, I'll hit them. Well, I'm curious if Jake will hit any of. Them he hits all those things. I hit it. Don't put a thing in front of Jeff. He'll hit it. Let's go. All right. You guys ready to jump into this? Ready. All right, World War 2 There is a common belief that the modern era of UFOs came at the end of the Second World War when the US dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. Some claim that it was in 1947 when Kenneth Arnold made the first report of the 9 saucer plate shaped craft over Mount Rainier in Washington state while he was piloting a small aircraft himself. Although neither of these are necessarily wrong when discussing the point in which UFO those began to show up in greater numbers all around the world, they were far from the 1st events just prior to the bombings that aided in the end of the World War, there was a threat in the air that kept both allies and adversaries on their toes. To many of this came in the form of balls of light that famously became known as Foo Fighters with the first use of the term coming in 1944, with the earliest sighting on record coming on February 26th 1942.

9:46 In response, investigations by many of the governments in the world were initiated to try and find out what these mysterious objects were, but nobody could figure it out. When fired upon, the lights would simply allow the round the pass through, or on some occasions they would seem to absorb the projectiles. Everyone thought that these Foo Fighters were secret weapons of their own enemies, and figuring out their mystery had become a temporary top priority. Author Keith Chester dedicated the entire book to the subject of Foo Fighters and other military encounters with UFOs in World War 2, titled Strange Company. In this publication, he ultimately concludes that after the war had ended, it seemed that the Allies no longer cared about the phenomenon they witnessed and were just happy that they were victorious. Less than a year after the war concluded, the European sub region of Scandinavia began seeing another strange phenomenon in the sky that were being referred to as ghost rockets.

10:43 These ghost rockets resembled the German V2 rocket in shape as they both shared the same cigar shaped frame. This prompted the United States to begin a brief study into what these objects could be due to EU s s concern that this was a new Soviet technology. But according to author Kevin D Randall in his book The UFO Dossier, when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and many of their records became public, there was absolutely no mention of any project regarding technology for either the Ghost Rockets or Foo Fighters. Although there are no official fancy names on file or in public circles for the brief programs looking at these two mysteries, other than the two figured title of T2 which was specifically given to the intelligence entity tied to these programs at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. They were however, the first two known investigations into UFOs that the United States government invested time and money into for UFO studies.

11:46 But one man by the name of Colonel Howard McCoy, who was a part of both studies regarding Foo Fighters and Ghost rockets, was ordered to begin another official investigation in 1946 at the base he stood as commander of in Dayton, OH. Previously referred to as Wright Field, this installation is now known as Wright Patterson Air Force Base and is one of the most mysterious, serious, and intriguing military installations in the world. Some of them put it on the same or higher tier than the famed Area 51 in Nevada. The investigations were to jump start a new wave of studies into the mystery of the Foo Fighters and Ghost Rockets as well as a few other strange objects in the sky in various parts of the United States. One of the very first cases that this new team investigated was a case in Virginia originally reported by a member of the US Weather Bureau who claims to witness quote a disk like metal Chrome object and quote shaped like an eclipse with a flat level bottom and a Dome like top on three separate occasions in a six month period beginning on April 1st, 1947. This account would predate the famed Kenneth Arnold story where the term flying saucer was first coined just shy of three months and was even followed up by reports by other observers at the same station in Richmond.

13:04 All right, guys. So World War 2 UFOs, Foo Fighters and Ghost Rockets, as well as the discovery that Kenneth Arnold wasn't necessarily the first one to describe a flying saucer. I don't know about any of these here. Foo Fighters. The only Foo Fighters I know about is a band. Oh no, we I got a whole episode ready to go in diving into Foo Fighters. They're awesome. You're going to love this. I mean, it's just like that. It's so perfect, right, That all the sudden, well, I can actually not let me stop because I was about to say something and then I thought about more information that I know about. I was going to say it's convenient that during World War 2 is when like the sightings start, right?

13:45 But really that's not the case because there's like ancient accounts of crazy shit happening in the sky and, you know, flying objects and stuff, so. This was just the, the, the starting line for the explosion of them. Like, I mean, there's been objects in the sky since, you know, yeah, forever ancient times. This is just the the modern explosion, if you would. But it is interesting. Go ahead. Basically it seems that the whole UFO phenomenon, like the major parts of it, the major ports of it, relied heavily on humanity's ability to put things into space, rockets, missiles, things like that. So that's what really pushes me towards man made craft because it didn't really take off, no pun intended, until until people got the ability to put things into the atmosphere like the V2 rocket program, intercontinental ballistic missiles, things like that.

14:53 Now that's what they're seeing. There's ancient stuff as well, and that's it could be a mixture of it for sure. I mean, because before we could fly and they're seeing things in the sky that aren't birds. That's, you know, a problem, but I think that it's a mixture of both spiritual phenomenon and man made vehicles mic drop. It's just suspicious that these you know that they would be spiritual at like what he's talking about. Like most of these sightings that were that are talked about in World War 2. I think those are are probably man made. No, I agree. Yeah, it's probably like the start of them getting their hands on this technology, you know, that they're able to to build these craft and that's why they were like, you know, like the Nazi bell and all that are like the shapes that they are and that they're made out of metal and these types of things. Because sure, you know, I doubt that the interdimensionals have like metal craft but.

15:53 Right. They're not using like some sort of nanotechnology that's way more advanced than aluminum and steel, right? Yeah. Yeah. So Jeff, you like to talk about the the, the puppet masters having technology that's far ahead of ours because they allow certain levels of technology to trickle out. Do you think that this is something that falls underneath that same concept? Yeah. I mean, these, you know, remember, we're talking about World War 2, right? So we know that the Nazis were building some crazy stuff. We were, I mean, we were all building crazy stuff at the time, right? We were trying to get his head as a head as we could with, you know, flying craft and all that other stuff. So.

16:38 And we ended up taking a lot of their scientists to do all the programs that further advanced all of that crazy stuff. So there's no reason to think that they weren't already using some of the crazy stuff during the war. And that's what a lot of these people were saying. Like, you know, a lot of these pilots were seeing crazy disc craft. And that was probably like early prototypes of I, I wouldn't even say, well, yeah, it was probably Nazi stuff, but I don't even know if it was like, like military, if that makes it makes sense. It was like black budget Nazi stuff, you know, dark program stuff that was still being tested. I think that there was some really weird shit in the skies in World War 2. Now. I mean, I've got a, I've got a, you know, a peek under the covers here because I started doing research into an entire episode dedicated to Foo Fighters, which I'm going to try to separate as much as I can from this episode.

17:32 Probably. We're probably going to do that quarter one or quarter 2 of next year. But there's some really, really cool shit, man, Really cool shit. Just to kind of go over one of the really strange phenomena that were that were happening to planes on both sides. You know, you had the the good guys and the bad guys from our point of view, right? There were these little token like things just like the size of 1/4 from the size of 1/4 to like the size of like a sand dollar, right that were floating in the sky and they would land on the skin of aircraft and melt it and just burn holes right through them. They would just fly through swarms of these things. And then there were like people on on islands, right, that were just bunkered up there.

18:26 And there were just these silver cigar shaped craft just flying over above the cloud cover with absolutely no sound whatsoever. And there were no, no, like I'm talking like a fleet of these things, like 100 or more of them just flying over top speed just. I mean, like how, yeah, it still doesn't change my, my thoughts on it, right? Because like, how deep do you want to go? There's there's theories that they had time travel technology, right? That the Nazis could travel all the time. So. The Nazi bill was known, was thought to. Right. And as I always say, as soon as you or everybody said, as soon as you turn the machine on, as soon as you turn The Time Machine on, like it's over, because you can go forward, you can go back, you can figure you can do all these things.

19:14 So instantaneously they go from having The Time Machine turned on to having fleets of UFOs, giant cigar shaped UFOs, breakaway civilization, technology from the future. Like that's possible if they have that technology. You know what I'm saying? Isn't the idea. Forget the guy's name. There's like some physicist and he talks about, you know, that that's the whole thing. It's like when The Time Machine get or when time travel gets invented somewhere in the universe, you can't travel back before that, but from that point forward you could. Everything happens all at once, right? So you now have access to what you have in the future as long as you have access to the time. Machine, I think.

19:57 I think that's a really good point for. That's a really good piece of evidence for why we don't have that technology right now. Just because we're not seeing it all right now at this moment, Yeah. Or are we? No. Well, times not linear, right? You're just perceiving this moment. You're living in the now that you that you're consciousness is choosing to live in, right? Like how deep you want to go there too? I want to go real deep dude, give it to me. How much time you got? You got a long presentation in your book. Give me all 3 1/2 inches, dude, Let's go. You know what I mean? We're going to page 5 of Google tonight. But you know, you get what I'm saying, right? Like, I know I'm just speaking off the cuff here, but the idea that time is linear and like that hasn't happened yet, that's, that's fake, right? Like that's not real.

20:42 What's real is that everything is happening all at once, I think right now. I think that if time travel was real, that you would see a major world power. I mean, and you know, everyone points at like, yeah, the, the police of the, of the world are the United States and the Navy, right? I don't think we are strong enough to prove that time travel exists. I think that you would see something absolutely intense and just absolutely incredible when it comes to power, projection of power, everything when it comes to time travel, because I think Jeff's right. I think once time travel is established that it is invented and now it is being controlled, I think that is a weaponry that will easily get out of hand.

21:34 I mean, they can literally rewrite history and you would be living through it right now. Yeah. Do you like whenever I talk about breakaway civilization, what do you feel about that? Do you think that that's like a thing just crazy talk possible? No, No idea. No, I, I do think that there are the puppet masters, right? I do, I I just don't think, I don't, don't think that the the trickling of technology is a thing. Absolutely not. I believe that there are, there's slightly better technology than what the public has. And I don't think it's owned by any government military, right. It's going to be the contractors, like Jake always says, it's going to be the contractors that has the better, that have the better technology, but they're not to the point to where they're taking 90° angles at Mach 3. You know what I'm saying?

22:26 That there's no way we're at that right now. Absolutely not. I believe personally that some of these people back in like the the 40s, fifties, I think that they were developing such advanced technology then that they've developed in a breakaway civilization. Like I honestly think that there could be like human cloning, like space fleets, all of that happening and we're, we're just here, we're just on or think of it as like a, you know, like a prison planet. You know, we're just information is tight. We don't really understand or know what's going on outside the atmosphere except for what we're told. We're the Ant inside the Ant farm. Basically. The they're the people that on the outside that are controlling the whole thing. Exactly.

23:09 They could be whole clone armies, just like in Star Wars. I mean, cloning technologies definitely a thing and it's been around for a while. And if it was, and it's been around in the public for a long time, right. So it's like they could have been doing human cloning back in the 50s. They could have fleets of, you know. I believe cloning is a thing that exists, but to be some Alien Ant Farm, Yeah, there you go. I don't think so because of a few things, right. One, think of farmers, right? If if two of their animals don't coexist very well, what do they do? They separate them because they don't want to fucking kill. They don't want them to kill each other, right. If we're somebody's valuable objects, why would they allow us to have nuclear weapons?

24:00 And I mean, that is a good argument when it comes to UFOs and the Malmstrom Air Force Base and all the other nuclear shit that happens around these strange things in the skies. But other than, you know, I don't know, man. I didn't. I didn't mean it like that. I meant it like the governments of the world are so far separated from the citizens of their countries that we only get what they're willing to give us. In the same way ants in an Ant farm are sitting there getting observed and Oh my gosh, master gave us a piece of bread today type stuff. We only get the amount of news that they're willing to give us, the lies they're willing to tell us, all that sort of stuff.

24:42 And then we have to speculate further on that. And they're so far detached and like on the outside doing all kinds of weird stuff. We just have no clue. There is no such thing as the modern government. It doesn't exist. It's all tech companies now, and those tech companies want you to buy their products. I'm not convinced nukes are real. I think you're crazy. People haven't said that before. Why? Why aren't nukes real? I mean, I've never seen one. I've heard about them. I've had I've had Big Brother tell me that they exist and to be afraid of them. I've heard it. I mean, there's a lot of things that I haven't seen, but I've. Heard it used as a as a propaganda tool for us to go into war, right? To spend trillions of dot to launder trillions of dollars. But I've never seen any like actual evidence that nukes exist.

25:26 I've seen evidence that huge explosions happen, right? Massive bombs exist, sure. But like, do nukes exist? I mean, I don't know, yes, could just be propaganda as far as I'm concerned. I've never seen a hippopotamus. I went to the zoo one time and I heard a hippo was going to be there and and it wasn't. Yeah, and I'm sick or something. I'm not, I'm not taking a hard stance like on oh, I just if I can't see it, it's not real on everything. I'm just saying like. Never seen Mount Rushmore in person. There's a lot of propaganda for the nukes, right? And I'm just saying it'd be, it'd be a real clever tool for all the world governments or the shadow governments to pull strings to just say, hey, look, everybody's got these weapons that could kill everybody. Watch out. Like, do what we say.

26:08 We got to pass some laws to restrict your rights and privacy all for decades and decades and decades and spend trillions of dollars for decades and decades and decades. Because watch out, there's this thing that we tell you exists that 9 or 10 other countries also have. Be careful. Yeah. All right, all. Right. Just like terrorism, just like communism, just like you know what's going to be the next alien threat. Just like certain microscopic things that may have happened in the last few years that I won't get into. Why not? I don't know. That's literally the point of the show is to get into this. Can't talk about that particular thing on Twitch. Oh. Yeah, so you can't talk about. That I was just saying that you probably watch stream ended.

26:54 All right. You guys ready to move on? Yeah. All right. Let's argue further in the next section. Yes, these are the ones that probably everyone's familiar with. Yeah, Projects Sign and grudge. Then on June 24th, 1947, fire equipment salesman Kenneth Arnold While piloting his private plane near Mount Rainier in Washington state, Arnold witnessed 9 luminary objects moving at unbelievable speeds. Kenneth Arnold would become one of the most influential experiencers in the history of UFOs, all due to his famous description of the craft and their movements. As a quote, a saucer skipping across the water. When this report was originally received, it was picked up by a wire service who distributed the news to television, newspaper and radio stations across the country with the highlighted term flying saucer, hence the birth of the famous title used in so many descriptions of metallic UFOs in recent history. It was three weeks later that Kenneth Arnold would pen a concern to the commanding officer of Right Field in Dayton, OH that we just talked about Colonel Howard McCoy, asking for a clear explanation of what he saw that day. Arnold's report was only one of the first of many that came flooding in in the form of photographs, statements and articles from all around the country. So much so that a problem arose as there were far too many reports and nobody delegated to

28:25 file or investigate them. On December 30th, 1947, the CIA announces the need for such a project, and Project Sign was born as a part of the Air Technical Intelligence Center, which was created as an effort to better collect, evaluate, and distribute reports to departments that were better suited if need be. Official investigations as part of Project Sign began on January 22nd, 1948. Every Air Force Base around the country had a representative attached to Project Sign in some capacity and would be dispatched to investigate sightings based on their proximity to their report. If the event was big enough, representatives from the main branch for Project Sign and Wright Patterson would be sent instead.

29:12 After almost 14 months, Project Sign reported its findings in February of 1949 after evaluating 243 sightings in the US and 30 in foreign territories in a report titled The Findings of Project Sign Quote. No definite and conclusive evidence is yet available that would prove or disprove the existence of these unidentified objects as real aircraft of unknown and conventional configuration. It is unlikely that positive proof of their existence will be obtained without examination of the remains of crashed objects. But the project never really ended. Instead, on February 11th the same year project Sign became the new Project Grudge. The main difference between the two projects were mostly the personnel and their point of views on the subjects of UFOs, where the people attached the project sign were very interested in finding the truth about these aerial phenomenon. Those that were newly attached to Project Grudge were seemingly willing to simply dismiss the subject entirely. Or maybe that was the entire purpose of the new project, as is one of the more common beliefs for the reason for Grudge's existence being that their entire purpose was to install a disbelief in UFOs and any talks of alien beings in the public to relieve the stress that the Air Force was feeling due to concerned citizens of the United States. According to author Kevin D Brandl, the evidence of this showed up in an article of the Saturday Evening Post claiming that UFO sightings were hoaxes and misidentifications. But this backfired and the

30:44 following week reports of UFOs spiked. In August of 1949, Grudge published a report claiming exactly the same, while also mentioning that 23% of the reports that have been investigated remain unexplained. Quote reports of UFOs were the result of misinterpretations of conventional objects, a mild form of mass hysteria, or Wardner's and individuals who fabricate such reports to perpetrate a hoax or to seek publicity. It was the recommendation of the project to reduce the volume in Grudges presence and in response the Air Force reduced the personnel down to one man by the name of James Rogers.

31:24 This was seen as the non official end of Project Grudge, although the project would continue in minimal capacity until late in the year of 1999. Eventually, Grudge would then be left in the hands of Captain Edward J Rubel due to Rogers and his superior officer making a mockery of the reports that were being turned into the Chief of Air Force Intelligence, Major General Charles Cabell. Up until this point, the reports that Rogers had received were being filed away or not being reported up the chain of command any further than his superior officer, General Harold Watson. The famous Fort Monmouth sightings began on September 11th, 1951 was a report that Cabell discovered Rogers and Watson were submitting false reports from real incidents to him.

32:13 This was due to many high-ranking officers coming to see him in person asking for a response from Project Grudge. When Cabell responded with the information that he had from Watson and Rogers, he was furious to find out that everything he was told was a lie and that there were real people with real concerning issues involving national security waiting for legitimate responses and immediately relieved the two from the project and inserted rappel instead. There may have been a lot of drama and issues with sincerity, but there was one enormous thing that came with Project Sign and Grudge. In March of 1952, another project was created that would take a much deeper and more intimate dive into the phenomenon of the UFO, one simply titled Blue Book. All right gents, what do you guys think of Project Grudge and Project Sign?

33:03 This Kenneth Arnold guy is something I looked at two years ago, put out on the show. Probably a lot, lot longer than that. I think that was talked about first year dude. Why I hate UFOs and stuff like that. And it was because of his report where he didn't even say it was a flying saucer. He said it was a Crescent shaped object and within he reported it to the news. The news said flying saucer and then like 300 people came out and said I saw the saucer too so they're all BS ING and lying about something they didn't actually see because it wasn't actually what he reported to the news. It was incorrect. Yes, true. But there were there were objects that were described to be shaped just like the modern flying saucer described by that meteorology program that we just discussed in the previous portion.

33:59 And during World War 2, these Foo Fighters came in many different forms. They came in mostly balls of light, but they were also metallic disc shaped craft that were also being reported throughout World War 2. So yes, there there were a lot of people that came after Kenneth Arnold that was also like, yeah, I saw a flying saucer as well. That's the perfect description. Most of them were probably BS and if not all of them, but there were descriptions of a saucer like Craft plenty of years before Kenneth Arnold did his thing. So here's the psyop that the Fort Monmouth sightings beginning on September 11th, right?

34:46 And it's this submitting false reports from real incidents, right? It's like the same thing that happened on September 11th, 2001, right? And then there was like false reports of real incidents. So some of these like Colts that pull the strings, these shadow government, you know, death coal people like this is how they signal, I think to people to themselves really behind the scenes is by doing stuff like this, you know, like this, the sighting, like the sightings start on September 11th. Like that's a signal right to these people for whatever, whatever that means to them. The two pillars, like that's a whole other thing, but. I don't know.

35:28 I don't know what called you crazy. Oh. Yeah, it does sound crazy. It is crazy. But even in like tarot cards, like there's like the two, the two pillars and there's like things that, you know, have to do. Like it's all like a cult symbolism and, you know, psyop stuff. But, you know, carry on. I don't know. It's a psyop. Bro, I don't know. I don't know. I I will. I I just want to be clear to anybody listening. These are brief descriptions of these programs. We will dive into most, if not all of these programs much more heavily in the future. I We. Lot of episodes right here.

36:09 Lot of episodes, lot of episodes, these are all preambles to full episodes that will be coming out down the line. I mean, obviously Grudge and Grudge. We just talked about Grudge and Sign. There's enough there to do like a three, four part series on it. Just those two along. And then Project Blue Book, which we'll discuss very briefly here in a little bit. Just because you know, everybody's talked about Project Blue Book at some point, that will also that that project alone could take 3 or 4 episodes, if not more. Didn't you guys already do an episode on Project Blue Book? You and Jeff. No project blue bean. OK, yeah, my mistake.

36:53 Different things. They both say blue, so it. Sounds, yeah, but it's not different things, right? Project Bluebeam is this even? It's even this is what I'm saying. It's even the the psychological pre programming of people behind the scenes, the Intel community, right? You got to pre program those people before you can pre program the rest of the population. Right. I don't know, man. I don't know. I, I don't, I don't. I do believe that Bluebeam exists to a point. I don't believe that it was even thought about back in this time frame in the 40s. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean you have to think like the the whole blue beam.

37:38 Hold on. Like Playbook, if you will, right, involves incredible technologies that just weren't a thing in the 40s. You want me to go ahead and get on to the next section? Sure. And then you can come back with that. Yeah. All right, Jake. You got anything else? Go for it. No. All right, cool. Various documents. Sometime in 1948, soon after the commencement of Project Sign, the Air Technical Intelligence Center ordered a classified extensive background investigation into the phenomenon of UFOs by way of an quote estimate of the situation. An estimate of the situation is defined by the US Naval Institute as a quote, a logical process which, starting with a mission to be accomplished and taking account of all existing conditions, leads up to a decision which, when reached, is seen to have resulted more or less inevitably from the mission and the conditions considered together. In layman's terms, it's a problem solving process, now referred to as MET T, an acronym for Mission, Enemy, Terrain and Weather, Troops and support available and time available. According to author Howard Bloom in his book Out There. The conclusion of this estimation presented by the previously mentioned Captain Edward Rupal, who would later go on to head Project Blue Book, was quote the unidentified flying objects or of extraterrestrial origin. When this was made the official end statement of the estimate of the situation, then Air Force

39:10 Chief of Staff General Hoyt Vandenberg immediately rescinded the statement due to quote lack of verifiable proof. The estimate was then destroyed and never distributed. In its place, the Top secret 26 page Air Force Intelligence Report 100 Tech 2O3 Tech 79 was released, titled Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the US, highlighting more publicity acceptable statements to the previously mentioned quote estimate of the situation. It must be accepted that some types of flying objects have been observed, although their identification and origin are not discernible, in the interest of National Defense, and it would be unwise to overlook the possibility that some of these objects may be of foreign origin. End Quote.

40:00 On August 12th, 1954, Air Force Regulation 200 Tack 2 titled Release of Facts was issued and signed by the Chief of Staff General Nathan Twinning stating quote. In response to local inquiries, it is permissible to inform news media representatives when objects are positively identified as a familiar object. For those objects which are not explainable, only the fact that the Air Technical Intelligence Center will analyze the data is worthy of release. Due to the many unknowns involved, we once again see another notice showing up on the desk of base commanders all across the country on December 24th, 1959 with an official reminder quote. Unidentified flying objects, sometimes treated lightly by the press and referred to as flying saucers, must be rapidly and accurately identified as serious United States Air Force business in the ZI or Interior Zone.

40:59 Technical and defense considerations will continue to exist. One of the earliest publicly released reports ever on the phenomenon of UFOs in the skies over the United States by a government entity was the official CIA monograph, The Investigation of UFOs, published in 1961. In 1975, the Strategic Air Command released an alert specifically referring to the UFO presence around nuclear weapons supply depots and bases, which was now being looked at as an act of aggression. The first of these incidents took place at Loring Air Force Base in Limestone, ME, where a reported unidentified helicopter was spotted hovering over and near the base for two days.

41:43 The multiple attempts by Air Force personnel to identify the craft was Knoll as the craft neither had an IFF identify friend or foe system, radio communications, or had any identifiable marks or structures. Shortly after, in the same week, an incident that would become one of the biggest events in all of UFO history took place in Great Falls, Mt at the Malmstrom Air Force Base. Quote at four O 5 Eastern Standard Time SAC site L5, observe one object accelerate and climb rapidly to a point in altitude where it became indistinguishable from stars. NORAD or the North American Aerospace Defense Command will carry this incident as a fate Fusion analysts and development effort remaining unknown at 3:20 Eastern Standard Time since after that time only visual sightings occurred. 2 weeks later, another Strategic Air Command facility in Mano, North Dakota, another object which was stated to be quote.

42:48 Bright and star like, passed directly over to radar station at 1002 thousand feet high. In another incident in Grand Rapids, MI, shots were fired at an object that was described as quote the size of a 2 1/2 ton truck. These and a few other incidents eventually forced the then commander in chief of NORAD to send a briefing titled suspicious unknown activity to all units under his command. Quote Since 28 October 75 numerous reports of suspicious objects have been received at the NORAD, COC, North American Air Force Defense Combat Operations Center. Reliable military personnel at Loring Air Force Base Main Portsmouth Air Force Base, Michigan, Malmstrom Air Force Base, Minnow Air Force Base and Canadian Forces Station Falcon Bridge, Ontario have visually sighted suspicious object.

43:44 The bases that were at the center of these intrusions by unknown craft deployed F1 O 6D darts and various helicopters to attempt identification, but all efforts at ID of these craft, both visual and other, had failed. Jeff, did you find what you were looking for, bud? Oh, Jeff left. Nevermind. That's pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. So we see basically the gist of that section was that there were a ton of memos, emails, official script written and distributed throughout various portions of the military and U.S. government that specifically identified UFOs and the threat that they they projected to certain installations or people. A lot, a lot of documents.

44:37 Jeffrey, what'd you get, man? What? Are you talking about what was I looking up? Yeah. Oh, you were. You were earlier. You were saying that you didn't think that the idea of Project Bluebeam could have been that old. And I was like, well, I don't know, man. I I was looking up when Serge Minas started talking about that. It was in the 90s. So, yeah, you're probably right. But you know, I, I still think that I have a belief that these people have been pulling strings and doing things for thousands of years. So you know, the last 80 years is like whatever, but. Yeah, I, I don't disagree with the thousands of years. I think that's kind of been the thing since, you know, like serfdom and and kingdoms, right?

45:22 I think that's kind of always been the thing. I think that's going to be the story as it's going to continue until our extinction, you know, and it's been the story since our birth. I just don't think that something as advanced as Project Bluebeam was being discussed in World War 2. Yeah, maybe not like to the specifics as far as like hologram projections and things like that, but just the concept of like switching the age and changing the the religion and changing the language and like all of that, you know, into the new the new age. Like that's something I think has been done repeatedly 100. Percent totally agree with that. But as far as like the direct sightings and stuff, I mean, you know, of course, like part of me thinks that some of this for a lot of this is probably human made. But the question is, is always like, why don't I ever see this stuff, right?

46:16 Like how can we never see this stuff? Just regular people don't see this stuff. It's always at like some facility or some base or like somewhere like. You talking about UFOs Sir? Except for Elmwood. Well, I'm not saying that like people don't see UFOs, but like, I don't know, they don't just show up like over the Super Bowl or something where you can where 50,100 thousand people can see this thing happening. It's so. There's there's two real big public events and we're going to cover each one of them at some point. The US over Los Angeles. Phoenix Lights, did you? Talk about the Battle of LA. No, that was off the coast of LA, but that's actually not even one of them. The Phoenix Lights was one of the major ones, and then the Washington DC crap that I want to say it was in like the 60s, maybe 62.

47:06 I thought it was 55. Maybe it was in 55, but that that come on, man. That was right over Washington, DC and it was reported for three days straight. People were seeing strange shit in the sky over Washington DC multiple days. I mean they they were zipping aircraft from a an Air Force Base in North Carolina to chase these fucking things. People were reporting that they were chasing like like Cowboys and aliens dude. But where's it at now? You know, this is what I'm saying. I want to see, I want to see something cool, man. I want to wake up and and like turn the news on or something and be like. Independence Day. Yeah, like, holy shit, there's like a mother ship over like Las Vegas or something crazy, you know, like. Well, that that shit happened, right? We had aliens come into the mall in Miami and they got fucking brushed.

47:52 Underneath the rug? No, dude. That's not what happened bro. I don't know, man. I don't know. That could be our Independence Day right there. Nobody knows about it. Did we ever see the trailer for that movie, whatever that was? No, Stranger Things hasn't come out yet, homie. Jake, you're looking something up. What you looking up man? The Phoenix Lights. Oh dude. Oh I love the Phoenix lights. So interesting. It has a lot of lights. It is a lot of lights. You should Did you watch it? Did you watch the video? No, no. Oh, there's videos of it and everything, man. I mean, it's it's an absolutely incredible subject. It's not going to be a very long episode when we do do it just because most of it is actually visual.

48:33 So that's going to be like one of those whenever we get to figure out how we can play a video. I think Jeff figured it out a little while ago. We'll have to like watch the video and react to it. That's how that's going to go. It's not going to be, I mean there, there's there's definitely some stuff behind it, but it's it's not going to be like a, a typical episode of infinite rabbit hole. Like it's definitely going to rely on visuals more than anything. But the the Washington, DC one that that's going to be a what? Was that event. Just I, I would look up Washington DDCUFO incident. It's like like you said, it's in the 55 or early 60s in that time frame, maybe even earlier than that. I'm not 100% sure, but it's, it's one of the biggest events involving UFOs in the history of the world when it comes to like publicity, right?

49:26 People that a, a big group of people witnessed it, like the Phoenix lights. Everybody saw that shit in in Phoenix that that night, same thing. I just found something on The History Channel. When UFOs buzzed, the White House and the Air Force blamed the weather. Yep, in 1952. Yep, Yeah, Oh yeah, 50. Two, there it is. Dang swamp gases from Venus, man. You know, watch. Out they're going to take our White House Oh no what did we just cover we were just talking about let's. Project Blue Book is next. OK you guys want to jump in the Project Blue Book? Dude you fucked me up so bad with that. I meant I didn't say something the last two times.

50:07 I didn't know you could. I didn't know it was like affecting you on your end. Walls it's funny too, because Jeremy, you were saying last episode you're like, Oh, you read along. It's like because you when you highlight stuff, it trips me up. I was like, I never highlight stuff. Oh, it's like, what are you talking about? And then that was going on. I was like I'm not even like my mouse is on the other page like where I can see you guys highlighter setting. So I can see what it. Looks like. What do you mean highlight? See what it looks like? No, do right now like that. Oh, I see. Oh, you see me? Yeah. You see it getting highlighted. Yeah, you see, the little word says like infinite rabbit hole pops. Up you need to fix your grammar bro. My girlfriend she says she's her Co workers call her a grammar Nazi because she's like freaking out over here too. She's looking at her. She's like, what is this?

50:48 Well, she, she should probably she. Should be a writer. Yeah. She'll do it for $100.00 an hour. Hey man, I. That's too deep. I am a guy who likes to read books. I don't write things and I don't read them like out loud very well. And I don't make a good podcaster. Now you're doing a good job, bro. But yeah, you know, maybe a little bit of a little spell checking and a little bit of, you know, script, script magic might help you script smooth that out a little bit, you know? Chat. GPT just drop just make one of these try it next time make take your script and just drop it in chat BT and be like hey man, just make this like, you know a little smoother for my podcast script and it'll be like. I don't even know how to use ChatGPT. And then I'll come out, I told.

51:34 You. Words in there that you don't say regularly and we'll be like he used ChatGPT just like Jeff's episode. I was like, he doesn't speak like this. I. Literally just told you, you just copy it, paste it, say do this, and then you say don't use those words. Use Use small, commonly used words. It's gonna say. Like. A bunch of times. Alright, you guys ready? Yeah. Project Blue Book in the history of deceit in the United States government and military complex about the subjects of UFOs, Project Blue Book proved to be pretty much the same, but the most ambitious and successful program even to this day, lasting 17 years.

52:15 Project Blue Book was commissioned by the Central Intelligence Agency due to the recommendation of then President of the United States Harry S Truman, who feared an outbreak of hysteria in response to the massive amount of UFO sightings in 1952, specifically the ones in the skies over Washington, DCA Blue Book officer was assigned to every Air Force Base in the nation and were easily accessible and often visited or investigated. Points of interest by the Federal Aviation Administration offices, the United States Weather Bureau, the National Center for Atmospheric Research, national universities, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the Smithsonian, local civilian million airports, and both the Strategic Air Command and Air Defense Command.

53:05 More than 13,000 cases had been investigated by Project Blue Book and as author Howard Bloom states in his book Out There, the study eventually announced findings of quote one No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security. 2 There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified present technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. 3 and there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified or extraterrestrial vehicles.

53:51 On December 17th, 1969, the Air Force officially announced the termination of Project Blue Book. But wouldn't be the last time the United States government would dig their toes into the world of UFOs. Author Howard Bloom thumbed through and extensively read and researched the project and was very disappointed in the lack of scientific professionalism. In many of the reports written by investigators. It was clear that they were using people without any scientific or real investigative training to conduct the work sanctioned by Project Blue Book. How much does that sound like the military, Jake? Man dude, what is the Smithsonian doing? What does a museum have anything to do with UFOs?

54:33 There they are, digging their feet in into something that makes no sense for them to be digging their feet into. Smithsonian's like, one of the most sketchiest like things. Ever. They're hiding giants, they're hiding aliens. They're hiding everything, man. Hide your kids, hide your wife, because the Smithsonian's going to snatch them up and bury them. Is it possible that there was like some type of threat, right? You know, these UFOs show up, this investigation starts happening, right? All this happens and then at some point they're just like, oh, we realized that we're totally screwed. And we just kind of kind of sweep this under the rug for not just the public, but for other like nation states, right, that are like watching us and and trying to pick up on what we're investigating, right? So they just say, oh, yeah, there's nothing that we don't know about already.

55:26 Like, yeah, it's not extraterrestrials. It's not out of the realm of known science like, Nah, no big deal. Just shut the program down. And really behind the scenes, they're like freaking out. And they're like, oh, dude, we got to start another program and like, figure this out, you know? Like I watch a lot of those. I guess they're like true crime documentaries or whatever, but like the, the murderer, whoever is being investigated and they kind of talk about the body language and all that sort of stuff, right? And it seems like when the cops really don't know what's going on, but they allude to that, they have more information to allow the, the person to kind of divulge that sort of stuff. It seems like the same sort of mind games here is what you were just talking about in a way, but kind of reverse from that being like being like, we have all this information. We're going to freak out now, but we're going to tell everyone we're like, no, no, no, it's, it's cool. It's cool.

56:22 We're we're good. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. There's nothing to worry about whatsoever. Oh my gosh. You know. I think it's like the exact same. Tactic, but reverse from that. It's all psychological. I would argue that that probably happens more often, like with the government, that probably happens more often than like, oh sure, nefarious, you know, like shit. I think it's more incompetence and they're reacting to things that happen all the time more than like being proactive with things. Whereas I think that the, you know, the contractors or like the black budget, you know, stuff that's happening that the government doesn't even know about, they're pulling the strings. Like those people, they're the ones that are making, they're pulling the strings and the governments are reacting basically as I'm trying to get at. Yeah, Yeah, that's probably right. Sure.

57:09 And that's probably, you know, when the all the conspiracies were like, oh, every time a new president gets elected and they go in and have that little talk with the last president, they always come out looking like shocked or just like, you know, pale or pasty. You know, there's always like, what what do they tell him in there? You know, and it's probably something like, hey, man, just so you know, you got some power, but you're not really doing anything, man. There's, there's other people. We just get. We get the memo. Just remember, you wanted this idiot, yeah? Aliens are here and that you've got a probing this afternoon. Yeah, it's. Probably something crazy, you know, like we're getting the memo too, bro. Just so you know, I know you think you're president now, but we're getting every day we got to check the emails because they're telling us what to do, you know?

57:52 All right, I actually have a screen share for this next section. Oh yeah. Make sure you share the proper browser Jeremy. We don't want this is a family friendly show. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. Family friendly with a bunch of F bombs. Let's go with this and this. You guys see that, OK. My screen is pretty small but yeah, sure. Yeah, we see it, OK. The Robertson Panel 1953 brought an offshoot investigation by order of the NSA to determine whether or not the presence of UFOs in the skies over America created any dangers to the security of the country. The name of this investigation would be remembered as the Robertson Panel and would convene for the first time on January 14th, 1953.

58:44 This panel that held classified meetings consisted of scientists, CIA officials, and Air Force officers and would be the immediate precursor to the UFO Working Group covered later in this presentation. Doctor HP Robertson, ACIA employee attached to the Weapons Systems Evaluation Group of the Office of the Secretary of Defense, stood as the Robertson panel's chairman of Scientific Advisory Panel. One other notable member was Doctor Louise Alvarez, who has, as author Howard Bloom notes quote won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1968. Other members included Doctor Lloyd Berkner, physicist and director of the Brookhaven National Laboratories, Doctor Thornton Page, professor of astronomy at the University of Chicago, and Doctor Samuel Gootsmith, a specialist in atomic structure and statistical problems at Brookhaven. The panel ended on January 17th, the same year. Lasting only three days, the group dedicated 12 hours each day to investigating military and civilian reports. Videos, pictures, and intelligence reports about Soviet Union's interest in the UFOs in America. Their concluding report was direct and to the point. Quote.

1:00:08 Reasonable explanations could be suggested for most sightings. No evidence of direct threat to national security in the objects cited. And the continued emphasis on the reporting of these phenomena does result in threat to orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body politic, and therefore a policy of debunking UFO reports should be instigated. Obviously there was not a lot of effort put into this panel, but it does show three things about the mentality and the government had on the topic of UF OS in 1953. One, on the surface this topic was not something worth much time and effort.

1:00:52 Two, there was a need for an excuse to quote UN quote debunk reports. And three, suddenly there was a reverse in attitude towards the UFO phenomenon. A whopping 3 days man what what an investigation time. How much do you think that cost the taxpayers? Millions. I like that that screen share that even had the holes punched on the top for a portrait view. For the way that we always file our stuff in the military, that's pretty wild. Yeah, isn't that, isn't that neat? It's a legit document man. It had the the date and everything on the on the top right and everything all panned out.

1:01:34 That's cool. The proper headers, everything. I want to know what you think, Jeremy. I think that there's definitely, there was definitely some fishy shit going on around this time period. I mean, even in World War 2, right when when we were just discussing the Foo Fighters and the Ghost Rockets. What do? You mean there was shit just like propaganda? No. OK. I think, I think there was definitely something in the skies. I think that there was a, there's a legitimate defense issue when it comes to UFOs. And it's always been a legitimate defense issue. Now, I believe that they, they sweep it under the rug or make it look as if it's not that important and not that dangerous because not, not because they want the public to feel safer, but because they're absolutely stupid and ignorant to exactly what is going on.

1:02:36 I don't, I don't think that the government has any idea of what is actually in the skies. Now, I know a lot of people out there was like, they know what it is. They know what it is. They, you know, they're just not going to tell us. It's some secret technology or craft in the sky. I personally don't think that the government has a fucking clue as to what it is. UFOs are absolutely no idea. Maybe maybe some of them, maybe some of them. They have, you know, they're they're they're watching experimental craft from adversaries like, you know, Russia or North Korea, possibly China. But I think that for the most part, the government, especially the US government has no idea what is going on. No idea.

1:03:27 And I, I actually to kind of skip into a subject that we'll cover later on that I've that I've recently started doing research into, if you've ever seen the the movie. Nope. Yeah. I've recently started doing research into biological UFOs, specifically the the jellyfish UFO, which is what the the creature from Nope the the flying saucer from the movie Nope was based after. Just an alien. It's a big alien. Not even that, they're just atmospheric creatures, something that doesn't have to come down. Now if you know anything about atmospheric creatures, people that are listening. One of the most well known atmospheric creatures are these things called rods.

1:04:20 There was an episode of Monster Quest that was done Shit gosh, it's got to be 15 years ago now where they did an entire episode basically dedicated to these rods and in cameras. They just look like long spiral creatures flying through the sky, very long elongated. And they just have like this like this Helix kind of form to them where they just kind of spin through the air. Now those are those are the most commonly known atmospheric creatures.

1:05:05 I think that it there's a, there's a pretty decent chance and I'm not going to dive into it too much right now. I'll save it for the episode because I have a big build up that I'm building right now for it. But I believe that some UF OS some unidentified things in the sky could potentially be biological. Not necessarily that they're strictly atmospheric creatures, but they are something biological that we don't know about. I, I guess a Cryptid, if you would, but I don't think it would even be considered to be something along those lines. And I think that these things come from places that we're not looking like the ocean or.

1:05:51 Shoot people that cerns opening up maybe? I mean, yeah, I mean, or even the natural ones like Mount Shasta, right? I mean, there there's a lot of there's a lot of natural ones that that people talk about all the time. But then there's also the people that say that they seen these biological atmospheric creatures come out of volcanoes. I mean, there, there's a there's a lot of different possibilities for for all of this. And whenever we get into the atmospheric creatures episode, it's going to be it's going to be pretty cool. Not necessarily that I think that that is the answer to UF OS. I just think it's a very interesting thing. But I think that the government isn't looking at shit like that, you know, and I think that they're looking the wrong way when it comes to UFOs.

1:06:35 And I think that they've already checked the blocks off for extraterrestrials. I think they've checked the blocks off for adversaries. I think they've checked the blocks off for drones. I think they've checked every block that they could possibly think of. And now they're just sitting there with their thumbs up their asses and not thinking outside the box when it comes to these things. I mean, I don't know, because honestly, I mean, I've even heard theories that that UFOs are literally just cameras or they're they're what is used to travel the world in the out of body experience, you know, like a like a project Stargate kind of thing. This is something that I've been thinking about lately too.

1:07:16 Like have you seen that show that three body problem? Yeah, you got to read that whole series, man, that. Book The book is amazing. So like just that I don't know if they did the same thing in the book as in the show, but that how like this this super intelligence, this alien or whatever they I guess programmed of of an electron or a photon, they quantum entangled it. So like this photon is observing whatever it wants basically on earth as it's light years away or the civilization is light years away. So it's called the Sofon, and in the book, the aliens are known as Trisolarans. But in the the show, it's something weird. I can't remember what they called it in the show, but I heard it and I was like, that's dumb. Sure, Yeah.

1:08:00 But you know, I don't it the the basic idea is the same, right? Like they, they're observing us via like some, you know, advanced quantum entanglement or something. They're they're using this. I thought about that with UFOs lately. Like are the ones that aren't ours right? Are those just like observing? Are they just drones observing us of some kind? Yes, and honestly I think that is the closest that we can get to the actual explanation from it. Obviously I don't know what the fuck a UFO is, but when you talk about quantum entanglement and then you talk about quantum enlarging right? So you create 2 particles on the quantum level, which is literally the level right above nothing right? The quantum meaning as small as you can get without not existing you.

1:08:48 The quantum entanglement is when 2 particles are entangled and they completely rely on each other and pass information between each other and one reacts when the other one reacts, even at great distances, meaning light years away. Like Jake. That's the book that I, that I lent you guys and then I, I had to grab from you guys because I, I let somebody else read it. That's the three body problem. It's Jeff. I don't know if you read very much man or or if you like audio books. You should. Really read man, I don't know how. Well, then whatever. Listen to the audio books of of 16 News 3, Body Problem, the Dark Forest and shit. What's the last one?

1:09:35 Death's End. Those three books don't don't listen to the redemption of time. It's the fourth one that's a it's a spin off book written by a different author and it sucks. Don't listen to that one. Just just listen to the three from six and you do you know what I'm telling you, man, you you will love that shit. Like if you like the stuff that's in the the show, the book goes way harder, like way harder. I I, I, I get excited about talking about that book. I just I I love that series, the scene. Calm down. It's like my absolute all time favorite series I've ever read in my life, man. It's it's phenomenal. Relax. Well, you said it, You said. My bad. Do you know what I mean to get 23 words? Yeah, I got the three variety problem in my audio book, so I'll listen to that after I'm done with Annie Jacobson's Annie Area 51. Well, it is very sciency, just so you know. Sciency, OH.

1:10:26 Oh yes. I don't know science kind of like. You like? Am I going to be talking? You're going to learn some. Couchy, I am the science. I'm the science. I'm the science. You're not the science. I'm the science. What were we talking about before you said 3? You're about to read the next section. OK. I'll just read the next section. This is the last section we're. Going to cover for tonight. We're going to split this into two episodes. This is actually a a very, very small section, obviously, because we're going to dive into this in a later episode much more in depth, but it would not be a report on UFO projects from the 40s to the 90s of the US governments without. Talking about it.

1:11:16 Right. And that would be the Condon Committee. Although not a federal government investigation into the phenomenon of UFOs, the Condon Committee of the University of Colorado was sanctioned by the United States Air Force in order to begin the relief of the military. Being the entity responsible for such matters. The Air Force wanted to get out of the UFO game and therefore completely funded the committee from 1966 to 1968. Ultimately, the purpose of the Condon Committee was to continue the work first set out by Sign, Grudge and Blue Book, but outside of the borders of the United States Air Force in order to finally close up shop completely. This of course was successful since Project Blue Book officially closed soon after in 1969 with a Condon report claiming that there was no sustenance behind and UFOs. And of course, more on the Common Committee on a future episode of The Infinite Rabbit Hole. That is, That is it for part one of our coverage on secret UFO projects from the 40s to the 90s, man. I'm going to have to watch Nope tomorrow. That's a good movie.

1:12:21 It was a good movie. I like my. Favorite part was like finding out that the sounds that it made was from the people being digested in it. Like that's crazy. It's nuts. It was so dark. Well, next week we are going to dive into a lot. We're going to dive into a bunch of smaller projects. We're going to jump into Project Twinkle, Project Stork. We're going to drive into Majestic 12, the UFO working group which we discussed during our Elmwood series. We're going to go to Project Aquarius for a little bit, even though it's not technically a known as a UFO program. We're going to talk about Stargate Scanate and then of course projects Moon Dust, Blue Fly St. and Blue Gemini basically revolving around the the search and seizure of downed UFOs.

1:13:19 Nice. In the United States, that's that's it. What do you guys, what do you guys think? Yeah, that's it. OK. I mean, yeah, I could talk for days about I get it. No, it's not Not that, bro. Yeah, I get. No, I get it. Well. That's beside the point. We, we could talk for hours and hours about this, but I'll, you know, I'll save some more of my thoughts for the next one because I don't want to just. He's saying that he has no thoughts, guys. I don't want to blow my load too soon man. No, do blow it all over everybody. It's all right. It's ectoplasm. Endoplasm. Endoplasm I I'm in the exact same boat that I've always been with these topics. However, it is interesting to hear the US government's kind of back and forth on are they going to look into it or they're not going to look into it.

1:14:09 So they now they're looking into it again. They're looking into it in the past and they're like, yeah, it's fine, there's nothing to worry about. And now they're looking into it again. I mean, I just saved a article on Popular Mechanics this morning that I was looking up that was talking about a, A captain on one of our various naval ships that was saying that basically Congress needs to get their heads out of their butts and start actually talking about these things because they're trying to downplay the UFO phenomenon. And he's seen stuff that's unbelievable. Yeah. And it's just like. But even then, like, how far, how deep in it do you have to be to be in the know? You know, how deep does it go?

1:14:51 Because just because you're a certain rank doesn't mean that you're yeah, that. You're you're allowed. Access to it. That you're allowed to know certain information, like just because you have a top secret clearance, that doesn't mean anything because you're only given the knowledge of the information that you need to carry out the task that you need to do it right. So like, for example, our Seals, our Green Berets, our spec op war fighters, they have top secret clearances, but it's only in regards to the target that they're going after or whatever, right? Or that mission. And I can't talk about it with anyone. And maybe they can write a book at it about it once it gets declassified, like we see. But for the most part, it's only, yeah, it's top secret. But that only goes for the information that's specifically in line with the job that you have to do. So how far, how deep or how high up do you have to go to get the full scope of what's everything that's going on? And even at that point, I have to question that thought process of, you know, there is such a thing as categorization where it's like you may have a boatload of scientists working on a project to say, make a, you know, let's go with Groom Lake and say make a anti Jet Propulsion, your anti gravity flying machine or whatever it is. But each scientist individually, they may have top secret clearances and all this sort of stuff and all their background checks and all their ducks in a row, but they only have a specific part of it.

1:16:24 You have to work on the generator. This person has to work on, you know, the fuel control or whatever it is, right? Like that. So that individually they know nothing except for the thing that they're working on. But collectively they're putting together this massive puzzle that becomes this, you know, super tech. So if anyone gets compromised, they don't lose all of the information to whatever government, whatever entity, you know, whatever that is, they lose a portion of it, which isn't in itself that big of a deal because you can't do anything without the rest of it, right? So or compartmentalization. That's that's the thing, not categorization, compartmentalization. So even still, it's like, so this captain is saying, well, they need to really start looking into his. Well, how do they know?

1:17:11 How does he know that that's not already being done? Because they know the full scope of everything that's going on. Maybe not Congress, but whoever is the top knows everything that's going on. And they're only allowing this captain to know so much because even in his finite or his, yeah, find out amount of information that he knows, even if he said, all right, scramble The Jets, we're going to shoot this thing out of the sky. They know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would never be able to match the top speed. They would be able to get a lock, you know, all that sort of stuff. So it's like like, who cares, right? But it's like, I, I don't know. It's it's definitely interesting the governments involvement in this, especially the United States government.

1:17:53 But I also agree with Jeff, I think that, you know, especially in the rise of AI art now, Oh my gosh, all of those Facebook groups I follow for Bigfoot have been compromised by AI. And it's just, it's like, I've just been deleting all of them because it's like, Oh my gosh, look at this picture of Bigfoot and it's obviously AI and it's just every single day. And it's just like, we can't even, you know, get anywhere. So it's like, next thing you know, it's going to be so crystal clear that you won't be able to see, Oh, that Lady has, you know, 5 digits on her right hand and three digits on her left hand. Obviously this is AI because it can't get hands and feet right or faces from a distance. But it's going to be so crystal clear that it's not going to matter even if someone does see a, because if they take a picture of it, they're going to be like, well, that could be AI.

1:18:39 Yeah. You know, so it's like we're kind of in this weird spot where it's like, yeah, I mean, it would be cool if a lot more people like, say, US UFO showed up at the Super Bowl. But even then, how many people would take a video or pictures of that, put it up on the Internet? People be like, oh, that's fake. Well yeah, me and Creamer were talking about this on the on the last episode of Shadow Band. Like nothing even actually has to happen, right? And I think that that's the whole point. I think that two things happen. One, you're you're right about the compartmentalization, but I don't even I think the government has its own version of that, right? And it's trying to figure out what this phenomena is. But I think that the contractors, the Raytheons and the Lockheed Martins in the Northrop Grumman's, they have the black budget programs that the government doesn't have have access to, right?

1:19:26 So they're, they're able to develop things that the military is trying to figure out what is this, right? And then when they come out with these reports that are like, oh, it's not extraterrestrial, right? And it's not beyond our science or whatever, right? Like maybe that's because it's not, maybe it is something that we know like kind of like, hey, we know what this is doing. Maybe we can't do it, but we, we understand what's happening here. We know it's somebody around here. We know it's not like Russia. Maybe they have an idea that it's these contractors, but what are you going to do when when you say, when you threaten some kind of legislation or, you know, oversight over something like this and then they show up at your house or something and try to blackmail you with a UFO with a.

1:20:08 With a chimera like some genetically altered or created alien being that comes out of this UFO in your backyard and tells you like, don't write the legislation. It's. Like what are you going to? Do don't write the legislation or wear your skin, yeah. So. Yeah, it's kind of crazy, but but that's what the my labs are. The military abduction programs. I don't know if you get into that at all, Jeremy, but. No. You know, military abductions, maybe they're real, maybe they're not. But you know, I think that some of that is real. I think that they have fake U not even fake UF real real UFOSI guess, but you know fake aliens. They do abductions.

1:20:49 They they do all that stuff. That's probably how they really blackmail and control the people at the top around the world. You know, it's the most I in the in the UFO my labs. The most I ever dove into my labs was in that the Screen Memories episode. That would that's probably the one time anywhere in the near future then then jump into my labs or pass. But yeah, there's a lot here. There is. You did a good job of breaking down how the government works. Well, the military at least, because that's, you know, I think that's very good for people to understand, you know, because I think Hollywood does this thing where they, I don't know, they use this, this term top secret clearance. Yeah.

1:21:39 To just kind of give a pass. To. All the information now because you have a top secret clearance now. You, you can't keep this from me. I have a top secret clearance. Fuck you, guy. Yeah, yes. I you have no jurisdiction here. You have nothing to do with this in your role as a whatever, right? The E3 with the need to know can tell the Admiral the fuck off that doesn't have a need to know. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I mean, I mean, he won't. That's not how that really works, but you know, it's. Slightly respectfully. Politely, like, sure. Can you please fuck off? I'm sorry. Yeah, Yeah, it's. But then how how you explained how you know, if if one of the compartments is compromised, the whole mission isn't compromised because only one leg went out.

1:22:28 We still have a leg and two arms that we can crawl on, right? That's also very important for a lot of people to know. And I think that has a big role to play in the UFOs. But that's also one of the biggest government downfalls is that no, no entities talk to each other. And that's the that's the same thing that you see in like the DIA and the CIA. Neither of them talk to each other, but yet one is governmental and one is military and they literally don't talk to each other. So they're all fucking shooting each other in the backs all the time. Yeah, the FBI and the CIA, they're constantly doing that, yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's absolutely stupid, but anybody got anything else? No, I'm just be interested for the next episode. Cool.

1:23:13 I like how so far I mean it. Obviously it's in the title, the government UFO projects, right? But I really dig having spent so long in the federal government as an employee, when we get into the topics that cover the government's role in this sort of stuff. Now, I'm not saying that I put more legitimacy into it because it's the government, because we know how fishy they are. But, you know, it's it's it's just it's got a different feel to it than, you know, Farmer John seeing a UFO land in his backyard or whatever. The Kecksburg UFO or whatever it is, you know, it's got more of a yeah, just got a different feel to it.

1:23:55 And especially with all the things that are going on now, and we're getting a lot of those old school projects that are being declassified now, a lot of that stuff is redacted, right? You go through the forms and it's just like, just like someone took a Sharpie to it and left like 2 words that aren't redacted. But but still, the fact that a lot of that stuff is, is coming out now is, is pretty cool. So it's like if, if even if there's nothing of substance to it, it, it's neat to see, you know, who at the time had their hands on this and wanted to know more. And maybe they found out some more, or maybe they got completely shut down. But at least it brings, you know, I don't know, I want to say a little bit of hope in my thought that not everything is completely corrupt, that some people at some point still try to do the right thing and try to kind of figure this whole thing out.

1:24:49 But then we're kind of, you know, stonewalled, I guess. You know, that's what it seems like ends up happening a lot of the times is that, you know, it's just like they just come up with nothing, right? No one's willing to say anything. You know, whether it's like we're saying a black budget project or whatever it is, it's like at some point the information gets cut off and they're like, Nope, sorry, you don't have access to this. I don't give a shit who you are. You're not, I don't care if you're the president, you have access, right? We're a private company. We're not, we're not going to talk to you about this, right? It's like rough, but even still, it's cool to see that, you know, where the governments of the world, not just the US government, but you know, where they try to figure the things out, you know?

1:25:33 Right on. I think it was kind of funny that we had talked about the the Washington UFO incident and then literally the next section I talk about it. I've had this done for probably six months already so I forgot that was even in there. Nice. Yeah, Jeffrey, final thoughts, anything? Space is fake and gay. Speaking on DD classified records, they just need the they need to release the JFK records. That'll be cool. Yeah, good luck with that. That's never going to happen, I know. A lot of records that they need to release that aren't going to happen in our lifetime, if ever. Yeah, yeah.

1:26:15 Right. Or maybe they're just, you know, record over them or something like they did with the moon landing footage. Not to get too too much into another rabbit hole, but could you imagine how fucked up the actual situation of the JK JFK assassination is if they still won't release that? And it was only supposed to have a 30 year limit to its classification. Didn't they just add 70 years to? It yeah, I mean, how how bad can it actually be if they locked it away for 100 years? Yeah, another 70, which means they were like everybody who's alive, right? Now I'm going to say. Yeah. Make sure that they're dead and their kids are dead in the current political climate that I'm at that we're at right now.

1:27:00 It I think that if it was opened up that there would be too many cookie crumbs that would lead to what happened just earlier this month with a former president Donald Trump. I think that I think it has a lot of similarities. I think that people would instantly be like, ah, see, you guys just kill whoever you don't like Willy nilly, huh? And whoever that is, right? Whether that's in the United States, that's around the world, you know, whatever it is, if it's they're not doing what you want politically, you'll just take them out, right? And so I think that there's too many cookie crumbs and, you know, only so many plays on the books and that people would see that redacted document or that redacted investigation and then be able to pinpoint other leaders around the world or, or folks that have been taken out in a similar way and be like, oh, so this is still going on.

1:28:00 Yeah. They'll. Figure out it's like an MK Ultra mentoring candidate situation. They're like, oh, you just just hit them with some frequencies and they do whatever you mind controlling for a little while, OK. I think that it gets pretty deep. They're not willing to do that because they want to be. They're probably going to wait until the public has full knowledge of all of these sorts of things. Like when NASA invented Velcro and then eventually disseminated it to the public, right? Hook and loop technology for sticking things to things. They're going to wait until everyone has full knowledge of everything and then they're back. Oh yeah, and then this happened like 150 years ago. Whatever ancient history. Anything else guys?

1:28:42 No all. Right. Well, that has been another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. It has been a pleasure, everybody. Until next time, we will see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit Hole. Goodbye. Bye bye. There it is. There it is. Hey everybody, thanks for checking out the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast. If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to infiniterabbithole.com where you can find links to all the podcast players that we are available on and even our video platforms such as TikTok and YouTube. While you're there, make sure to check out all the links for our socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers, we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the Infinite Rabbit hole. Goodbye.